programming the cards

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Dec 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

contradiction	02 Dec 2004
o.k. i hope i don't open a discussion i will regret, and please do not take offense at anything i say or ask, because i am trying to learn and understand. and i am real good at putting my foot in my mouth (lol). i can see where programming the deck to relate a combination of cards, would be beneficial in some situations, and to some extent we all program our cards for certain things. for instance, i was alway taught to pull a querent card and place on table before doing a reading, and to always have them cut the cards before dealing them. i don't do either. it is amazing the number of things i am thinking of at the moment. both that i do, and don't do that would qualify. but how far do you carry it? example, would it be better to have a combination that would mean a general health problem, or would you try to have a combination for every sickness known to man. let's look at cancer there are over 1,000 kinds (i'm guessing), would your combination refer to cancer in general or try to disinguish between skin, colon, lung,bone, and the list continues. gargoyle_guarded has a post on a car wreck, (i hope you don't mind me using this as an example i probably should have asked first), but what about trains, planes, boats, bicycles, skate boards, etc.... if you are in the practice of programming your cards, any thoughts that might help someone like me who dosen't, to understand, would be appreciated, and meditated on. if you have been offended, i apologize, i know after a couple of other post dealing with this subject, (though not specifically), there are some who might, be sensitive at the moment. but, i am truly trying to understand, and learn, not to be critical. hoping for a good discussion contradiction

Imagemaker	02 Dec 2004
I see it as developing a relationship with the cards--a mutual guiding and growing where we create an understanding. The symbols that have meaning for me in a particular way might mean nothing similar to another reader. And different decks have slightly different syntax and definitions for me. For example, as I've posted here before, the Ace of Pentacles in the Robin Wood deck looks EXACTLY like the cemetary where my mother is buried, and where my father's gravemarker stands. When he had a sudden, severe heart attack and nearly died last summer, I had already gotten this card and the Emperor (father figure) in doing a reading on whether I needed to go visit. (a distant state) So I now take that card as a sign of impending danger for *our* family. I wouldn't necessarily take it that way for someone not connected to that cemetary. As for programming, yes, I've formed agreements with the cards that certain symbols mean certain things. But I wouldn't get so specific as kinds of cancer, types of transportation, etc. To me imposing that rigid a system turns the tarot into a mechanistic dictionary--not my style. For others I can see that a chart of definitions would work fine. Ultimately it comes down to one's own *marriage* with the cards--the personal signals and meanings that develop over time that may sometimes be the same as others understand, and some that are significant only to the two.

emillkim	02 Dec 2004
So when you say "programming" the cards, (Just so I'm clear) you mean having or bestowing a particular "personal" meaning to individual cards, spreads, or combinations that are significant to you alone?

Imagemaker	02 Dec 2004
That's the way I took it.

lark	02 Dec 2004
I think after you read for a few years this can't help but happen. The Hermit comes up as neck injury for me over and over. 3 of swords rx as infertility. 4 of pents, constipation wheel of fortune, allergies Just speaking of health issues, that's a few. But they come up as other things depending on the question asked. Also different decks will mean different things. The 8 of pents in the RWS deck often means a person works with computers, or is a massage therapist just because of how he is sitting at his work bench. As a health issue I sometimes see it as body building or exercising. Which often leads to talking about diet or being on a diet. Which sometimes leads to seeing it as a health club or gym. contradition I'm so glad you brought this up. It is fun to talk about the language of the cards. Because as far as I'm concerned this is teaching that comes straight from the Universe and not from any book. The only requirement is time spent with the cards and good observation skills. Taking note of interesting unusual combinations that you see and are confirmed by your client or by your life experience. And once those cards repeat themselves you are well on your way to a very intimate relationship with your deck. So use protection...:D

gargoyle_guarded	10 Dec 2004
contradiction wrote: o.k. i hope i don't open a discussion i will regret, and please do not take offense at anything i say or ask, because i am trying to learn and understand. and i am real good at putting my foot in my mouth (lol). Oh, wow, what a flashback. lol contradiction wrote: ...but how far do you carry it? example, would it be better to have a combination that would mean a general health problem, or would you try to have a combination for every sickness known to man....gargoyle_guarded has a post on a car wreck, (i hope you don't mind me using this as an example i probably should have asked first), but what about trains, planes, boats, bicycles, skate boards, etc.... I don't mind at all contradiction. And just to clarify - what I was referring to wasn't meant to imply a car wreck per say. It was a car accident. (I chose to use the word "car" after telling my client it was a vehicle and she made a statement about her CAR. I wasn't sure what she drove. So, any mode of transportation could have worked in this instance. That's why I am seeking clarification on how to interpret situations such as this - to learn more about how I can convey detailed and specific information properly.) And an accident to me isn't necessarily a complete write off of the vehicle. A simple fender bender or paint scratch would still fall into the same category for me. It was the cards around the car accident that concerned me - smoke and fire. Especially since the lady I read for told me she has smelled burning wires or plastic already. In terms of sickness...I am not trying to diagnose every medical condition known to man. However, when the same card combinations come up representing the same health conditions in different people, I do feel the cards are speaking to me. Then I make notes in my journal reflecting these combinations. This is often how I program my cards - based on what I feel they are trying to tell me - sometimes repeatedly. Now that I think about it, maybe I'm not programming my cards at all. Maybe they are programming me. ;o)

Imagemaker	10 Dec 2004
Quote: maybe I'm not programming my cards at all. Maybe they are programming me. That's why I called it a marriage with the cards. Over time you begin to understand each other very well (and start to look alike?).

Nevada	10 Dec 2004
I think my cards are continuously re-programming me. :D I've had certain meanings I applied to them that the cards seemed determined to change. Lark, I found your take on 4 of Pents interesting. I associate it with needing to pay bills. The two meanings are in a sense related. I've recently seen 7 of Wands as a reminder to do my laundry. (If you see clothing as a kind of public self-image you see how this came about.) I think programming happens on many levels. When we focus on a question and shuffle, that's one form of programming. Assigning our own meanings is another. Nevada

Adjustment	10 Dec 2004
I think that this post refers to this one:[[url]http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=34198][/url]

Nevada	10 Dec 2004
Tara Deck wrote: I think that this post refers to this one: [[url] http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=34198] [/url] Ah, thanks, Tara Deck. That explains a lot. :) Nevada

jmd	11 Dec 2004
Contradiction, as emilkin also asked, I'm likewise not sure if there is a sense of 'programming' that I'm missing in this discussion... is it meant in a similar way to 'imbuing the cards with a specific meaning'? I realise that this seems to be the way that Imagemaker has taken it too. For myself, in any specific reading, what comes to the fore may vary greatly from reading to reading. In a similar way, each word used in this sentence has a more-or-less specific general meaning, but chances are, the precise meaning will be different each time used given the context of not only the sentence, but the situation (in this case, the thread). Imagery, subtle nuances, and details that predominate all form part of the unfolding narrative.

contradiction	11 Dec 2004
i believe most have understood my question, (judging by responses), but perhaps i did not word the question clearly, i have read some post saying things like "the chariot is a car wreck", "the heirophant says gayperson", "the 4 of pents, is a broke neck", (just made up some stuff), i understand that sometimes you get certain cards for certain things, ie.. the death card "actually means drastic change","2 of swords, means harmony" etc..., but there have been a few other threads, where people talked about making their cards mean certain things related to todays culture, (if i am understanding what they are saying), to me it sounds as if they are "forcing" the cards to have the meaning they want them to. i have also predicted a car wreck but the chariot was not in the reading. (i was correct btw). i could understand if the chariot was present between two other cards, such as the tower, and the sun (r). but just to say a car wreck every time you see the chariot, i don't understand. that is why i am here to learn, so i ask. i have some general one word descriptions for each card ie..good news, bad omen, wise decision, etc..., but nothing as specific as those mentioned. i guess what brought out the question, was this question, aren't you afraid that by attaching a specific meaning to a card that you might miss something important? i was doing a general reading for myself a few months ago, the death card showed up in the "final outcome" (i hate that word final, but it fits this), so i started wondering what the major change would be. a few hours later a good friend was struck by a car and killed, i was only 10 feet away, and barely missed being hit myself. i missed it, because i did not, (could not, would not) allow myself believe what the cards were saying. i did actually think "who is going to die", but then told myself the card means change not death. i had programmed the card, and myself to a specific meaning, therefore i missed what i should have, (and did) see. if i had not dismissed the reading, i could have prevented this, looking back at the reading now, it gave me enough information to know how to avoid this, but i wanted to use my preset meaning. i guess that is why i am asking this, i no longer allow myself to use preset meanings without first making sure they are correct.

Moonbow*	11 Dec 2004
Hi contradiction I guess this is where some intuition can be used when reading cards. By preset meanings I take it you refer to the 'textbook' meanings. I tend to put alot more emphasis on my own instincts these days, although the book meanings are there also. I pick from what I see, and, from what I have read in books and go with what feels right. Although, I don't think that even if you had have seen this in your reading that you could have prevented it, the Universe is at work also. :)

jmd	11 Dec 2004
To my mind, there is no 'preset' and precise meaning of the sort you suggest, though it is indeed possible for each of us to consistently interpret certain cards in that manner. In such a case, it is also likely that those specific cards will only surface when the precision required perhaps needs to be spoken. Even if the card to which a very precise meaning is attached surfaces, however, the question can still be asked: in this particular case, is the definite meaning I have come to associate with this card the one which speaks out, or is there another meaning that seems to emerge? The interweaving of specific meaning, general meaning, background knowledge, understanding of the cards' imagery, and individual circumstance at that specific time all play, in my view, to any interpretative act - ie, any reading.

Moonbow*	11 Dec 2004
Yep.... and what jmd said :D

Adjustment	11 Dec 2004
jmd wrote: To my mind, there is no 'preset' and precise meaning of the sort you suggest, though it is indeed possible for each of us to consistently interpret certain cards in that manner. In such a case, it is also likely that those specific cards will only surface when the precision required perhaps needs to be spoken. Even if the card to which a very precise meaning is attached surfaces, however, the question can still be asked: in this particular case , is the definite meaning I have come to associate with this card the one which speaks out, or is there another meaning that seems to emerge? The interweaving of specific meaning, general meaning, background knowledge, understanding of the cards' imagery, and individual circumstance at that specific time all play, in my view, to any interpretative act - ie, any reading. I totally agree.

Nevada	11 Dec 2004
contradiction wrote: i guess what brought out the question, was this question, aren't you afraid that by attaching a specific meaning to a card that you might miss something important? contradiction, Yes, there is that possibility, and it would tend to foil my entire purpose of using the cards, which is to gain a perspective that I or the person I read for wouldn't have ordinarily had. (Although sometimes this takes the form of simply confirming what we already knew.) As Moonbow said, this is where intuition comes in. I also try to make a sentence or story, or logical sequence out of the cards in a spread. In this way the reading takes on a structure that, along with intuition, helps inform as to which of the many possible meanings the cards carry in that particular reading. While I have some favorite preassigned meanings, and they do ring true in many cases, often another meaning is present, or the image or something in the card presents an entirely new idea or concept for that card. (Which I now realize jmd said, probably better than I.) The important thing is to arrive at the reading with as open a mind to the possibilities as you can achieve. Don't talk to the reading. Let the reading talk to (and through) you. Nevada

Adjustment	11 Dec 2004
I think that programing the cards puts limitation to the meanings.

Adjustment	12 Dec 2004
Imagemaker wrote: As for programming, yes, I've formed agreements with the cards that certain symbols mean certain things. But I wouldn't get so specific as kinds of cancer, types of transportation, etc. To me imposing that rigid a system turns the tarot into a mechanistic dictionary--not my style. For others I can see that a chart of definitions would work fine. The symbols on the cards mean a lot in my readings, I feel like the symbols are speaking to me during a reading.

RedMaple	12 Dec 2004
[quote=Imagemaker]I see it as developing a relationship with the cards--a mutual guiding and growing where we create an understanding. The symbols that have meaning for me in a particular way might mean nothing similar to another reader. And different decks have slightly different syntax and definitions for me.... Ultimately it comes down to one's own *marriage* with the cards--the personal signals and meanings that develop over time that may sometimes be the same .[quote] Yes, it is like a marriage, a give and take. It is not at all mechanistic, and always leaves room for new information. I have sometimes shaken my head the first time I've gotten certain information from a card, and only later realized how accurate it was. Then the next time the same card appeared, I paid more attention to my intuition about it. I like the way different decks can be so different in their meanings, giving all the colors of meaning to the particular card. For example, the Hierophant in the RWS vs Tradition-Juno in the Goddess deck (I've just done a reading in which this card showed up.) The Juno card speaks of home traditions, especially those of women, while the Hierophant card most often has to do with involvement with educational institutions in my readings, though reversed it is often about gay or lesbian relationships. I didn't choose or program these meanings, they developed in the use of the cards over time in a very interactive way. I love language, and it really is learning a language, or many languages, with the different decks' imagery.

lili	14 Dec 2004
[quote=RedMaple] Imagemaker wrote: I like the way different decks can be so different in their meanings, giving all the colors of meaning to the particular card. For example, the Hierophant in the RWS vs Tradition-Juno in the Goddess deck (I've just done a reading in which this card showed up.) The Juno card speaks of home traditions, especially those of women, while the Hierophant card most often has to do with involvement with educational institutions in my readings, though reversed it is often about gay or lesbian relationships. I didn't choose or program these meanings, they developed in the use of the cards over time in a very interactive way. I love language, and it really is learning a language, or many languages, with the different decks' imagery. Thanks or sharing this information,

The programming the cards thread was originally posted on 02 Dec 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.