Spirits?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Dec 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

rachelcat	03 Dec 2004
Do you believe that there are real spirits that you are communicating with (they are telling you information?) when you do a reading? Or that some people communicate with spirits? Are they "nature" spirits or souls of deceased people, or both, or do you know? This is where I'm coming from. I am strictly of the psychological school of tarot. Looking at the cards helps one rearange thoughts about something in a different way, helping people to make connections and understand it in a different way. (Think Hanged Man.) You already knew it, you just didn't know it! I am also a (new age American) Buddhist and an agnostic. One thing that makes Buddhism so beautiful is that you don't have to believe in anything supernatural in order for it to be real for you. O.k., I admit it, I am also a control freak and so find the idea of people/things I can't even see telling me things makes me uncomfortable. One more question: I have a friend who is a Reiki healer and channeler who goes all over the country helping people. I asked her this question with nothing but the greatest respect as I ask it of you: Why are spirits, just because they are spirits, able to help people and give information that no-one else can? Aren't there evil spirits, mischevious spirits, or just plain ignorant ones? If they are deceased people, do they become wise and helpful just because they're dead? I'm not being disparaging. I really want to know. I think I'm just cautious about taking advice from strangers! And you can't really ask a spirit to show you his counseling diploma!!! So--with complete respect and open-mindedness--what's the deal with spirits? I am curious . . .

Dark Inquisitor	03 Dec 2004
[quote=rachelcat]Do you believe that there are real spirits that you are communicating with (they are telling you information?) when you do a reading? >>>>>> Sometimes. Especially if a reading is about a deceased person and I can provide information about them I don't know . If a message is given that is relevant . If I see the face accurately. ****Or that some people communicate with spirits? >>>>People have been communicating with spirits since before time was formally measured , and studying it scientifically since the Victorian era. *****Are they "nature" spirits or souls of deceased people, or both, or do you know? >>> Both. Some people are able to communicate with nature spirits, but this is not something I have any experience with. ****This is where I'm coming from. I am strictly of the psychological school of tarot. Looking at the cards helps one rearange thoughts about something in a different way, helping people to make connections and understand it in a different way. (Think Hanged Man.) You already knew it, you just didn't know it! >>>>> That's fine. It doesn't have to be one way or the other. The psychological exploration is just one function of the oracle. *****I am also a (new age American) Buddhist and an agnostic. One thing that makes Buddhism so beautiful is that you don't have to believe in anything supernatural in order for it to be real for you. O.k., I admit it, I am also a control freak and so find the idea of people/things I can't even see telling me things makes me uncomfortable. >>>> No one demands you believe in anything. It's up to you. The best way to ensure you will not be receiving any information from the unseen is to block it with fear and disbelief. In essence, you are refusing permission to be opened up to anything. However, I cannot guarantee that repeated exposure to occult things like tarot will not put in a nick in your armour from time to time. ****Why are spirits, just because they are spirits, able to help people and give information that no-one else can? >>>> I don't think that's necessarily true.Not all spirits help or have information. Information can be gotten from the higher realms because that is the wavelength that connects us all , and information flows back & forth. Here in our little tight consciousness, we may not have developed the ability yet to reach that far. ****Aren't there evil spirits, mischevious spirits, or just plain ignorant ones? >>>> Yes. Just the same as they were on earth. **** If they are deceased people, do they become wise and helpful just because they're dead? I'm not being disparaging. I really want to know. >>>> No, death doesn't make anyone wise or helpful or worth talking to. I don't advise anybody to talk to spirits just for the hell of it. A certain amount of knowledge and experience is necessary to know what you are dealing with , and there are protections that must be undertaken. **** I think I'm just cautious about taking advice from strangers! And you can't really ask a spirit to show you his counseling diploma!!! >>>> That is a very good attitude to have . You don't have to deal with spirits at all . *****So--with complete respect and open-mindedness--what's the deal with spirits? I am curious . . . >>>> The deal is that some people have been able to discern their spirit guides and benefit from it. Others are able to communicate and serve as a go between for the dead and their loved ones here on earth. Some people have jumped into spirit communication with no knowledge or protections and lived to regret it. Still others have accidentally found themselves in contact with spirits , or found them hanging around in places they live . Causing trouble, or being helpful as the nature of the spirit dictates. Some are trapped, some don't want to leave , some return to be of help. It's not really that big of a mystery anymore . It's energy , and it can be measured. There is no reason you have to bother about any of it if you don't want to though.

Lurea	03 Dec 2004
Well, I've gotten information from the Tarot that there was simply no way I could've known about in real life. (A reading I did for a much anticipated vacation leaps to mind, the Tower, and it turned out to be 100% correct!) I believe there are such things as spirits, though, having had a couple of personal experiences with them. I agree, not all of them are helpful! I don't mess with spirits for the most part, though. When I work with the Tarot, my aim is to get in touch with the Divine, and that is where I get my information. :) Since I've developed a pretty good relationship with my Deities, I trust them. :D

emillkim	04 Dec 2004
Hi, As a buddhist, do you not believe that there is a soul inside of you? Aren't we are all spirits reaching toward enlightenment or learning. The word 'namaste,' the salutation. used by many buddhist and other spiritual devotees, means "I recognize the buddha body, or essence of the universe, inside of you." It is central to why buddhist respect all life and reject aggression and violence. We are all drops of water in the same ocean. Pieces of the same cosmic entity. To accepts the tenets of buddhism, we accept the soul and soul of others. Which are the same as spirits. (The material is the illusion (Tibetan book of the dead)). As to whether or not they are evil or good, floating around in our cards or haunting houses, that is certainly debatable. But I think that if you believe in the soul, even only a collective unconsciousness, you've accepted, as part of 'the package deal,' the possibility of spirits being elsewhere. Remember, even the buddha was tempted by Mara (an evilish challenging spirit). But hey, I'm mortal...It's an opinion. We'll all know the truth one day. Hope my two cents helps

emillkim	04 Dec 2004
I should pay more attention to the buttons I'm clicking.

Fulgour	04 Dec 2004
ADDED NOTE: At the time of this writing, the following quotation appeared on emillkim's signature line: "When sitting down to play poker, if you don't know who the sucker is at the table.... It's probably you." When in Tibet, do as the Tibetans do!

emillkim	04 Dec 2004
Not the last time in life I'll be the sucker.

Fulgour	04 Dec 2004
Gosh, emillkim, I didn't mean you... just quoting from your signature line. Thought you'd explain?

emillkim	04 Dec 2004
Oh, It's a gambling axiom I first heard from a very old, old man. It originates from a con-artist scheme where everyone else at the table lets you win early. This bolsters 'the mark' (aka victim) to commit larger and larger sums. Which he/she inevitably loses (because they stop letting him win) in one big round. It's both an admonishment and a warning. Not to be too confident - thinking you're in complete control and overestimating your abilities. and To be conscious about what's going on... Frankly, I like it because it always makes me laugh for some reason.

SunChariot	05 Dec 2004
Well for me, when I do a reading, I see answers coming out of me to things I did not know the answer to. And it is even more than that. The more readings I do, and especially on subjects that are important to me, the more the universe keeps helping me by sending me additional info. I definitely feel it connects me to something greater than myself. For me it isn't "spirits". It is more a universal source of knowledge or G-d whichever you choose to call it. Bar

rachelcat	06 Dec 2004
I just typed a nice reply to everyone, and my computer just ate it! Let's see if I can remember what words of wisdom I had to say . . . Thank you all for your replies. I maintain, Millkim, that Buddhism is real and works without any reference to spirit whatsoever. The Buddha refused to answer any questions about life after death and eternity of the soul or the world, etc., because it didn't have anything to do with relieving suffering. That being said, as you said, we're only human, and that means for me that I'm completely curious about what other people believe and do in the spiritual realm! So thank you, Dark Inquisitor for your detailed answers. I do believe that things can definitely exist even if we can't see/measure them. I think I am more on the fear side than the disbelief side! I was talking to my husband, a scientist (chemistry teacher), about this subject and he summed up his beliefs very well, so I wanted to share them with you. He said life is energy. Sometimes it comes together, sometimes it dissipates. Where does a whirlpool go when it's gone? (Hmm, chemistry teacher/Zen master . . . .)

The Spirits? thread was originally posted on 03 Dec 2004 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.