Interesing experince

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Jan 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ceit	07 Jan 2005
On December 28th, 2004 I went into my local Borders to exchange a set of Tarot Cards that I got for Christmas because I all ready have them. I live in MA-- and the Borders is near Witch City (Salem). (My point it that Salem has a large Wicca/New Age community so this particular Borders has a large selection of Tarot cards and books on Wicca-- Paganism --the occult) Anyway-- I didn't pick up the right receipt when I left the house. I stood in line because one of the ever so ... ummm... helpful... yeah .. that's what I would call her... Yeah... Helpful.. Sales Associates... I get up to the counter and I handed the guy the tarot cards and he reacted like they were fire and dropped them, looked at me and as I unfolded the receipt he said "That's not the receipt." "Yes I know that. I just want to exchange these cards." "Well I am Christian," he said. "Okay. But can I exchange these?" "Yes..." He then moved quickly away from the register and took me over to the glassed in case, opened them like he was opening hell... and as I was trying to hand him the tarot cards.. He said "No, I am Christian." As if touching them would do harm. He stood while I looked at the cards, and found a Vampire Tarot deck that I haven't been able to find anywhere and tried to hand him the new Tarot deck-I know this store is practically protective of the tarot cards, it seems as though many people like to help themselves to them, again, he replied, "I am a good Christian." Sigh... I didn't respond to him and then asked, "Do I have to do this now? I want to look at other books." "No, I trust you, please go." As he took off to the back of the store, he crossed himself. I have never seen anyone so upset around the tarot cards. I didn't report him because -- he is right he is a Christian, and I feel that his beliefs are just a vaild as mine. I think he needs a little attidue adjustment or if his beliefs are that strong he might need to find another place of employement. But what gets me is that Christians can read Tarot Cards, I have seen, even in this Borders a beautiful set of very Christian Tarot Cards. (I was Christian at one time, but don't consider myslef one now.) Ceit

Keslynn	07 Jan 2005
Ceit wrote: I didn't report him because -- he is right he is a Christian, and I feel that his beliefs are just a vaild as mine. I think he needs a little attidue adjustment or if his beliefs are that strong he might need to find another place of employement. Ceit I agree that he just might need to find another place of employment if he keeps behaving like an idiot. You're being very nice by not reporting him or speaking to him about his issue. Should someone of another religion behave the same way about helping a Christian find and purchase a Bible or other Christian book, it very well might be a different story. What he did was just plain rude, and it's a good thing he doesn't live off tips. Or maybe the devil really does live in the cards? Look out! He just might jump out an bite you! ;) :) Kes

WolfSpirit	07 Jan 2005
This is the conversation you could have had: He: But I'm a Christian ! You: That's ok, I don't mind Christians handling my cards :D It is indeed a weird experience...I think he won't work long in a place that sells tarot cards (even if it is not their main business) if he keeps behaving like that !

Scion	07 Jan 2005
I agree: It was extremely generous of you not to report his behavior. Imagine if every time an American nonChristian came in contact with Christian images or texts they ceased to function and blurted nonsequitors like a defective toaster. The entire country would grind to a halt. Having weathered the holidays in the occasional company of some genuinely astonishing Christians, I'm starting to think that the word "Christian" means something special/specific to a select minority, that it doesn't mean to many other folks. So embarassing for Christians who actually think for themselves and spend less time worrying about the motes in others' eyes. Sad that Christian is becoming a synonym for "solipsistic android" or "intellectual ostrich" or "spiritual coward." My favorite detail is that he lives in Salem. You can't write that stuff... no one would believe it. Scion

Emily	07 Jan 2005
This is an interesting thread - I would have asked him why being a Christian mean that he couldn't handle the deck. Maybe he was an assistant just took on for Christmas, not normal full-time staff. Then I would have reported him as being unhelpful.

stella01904	07 Jan 2005
WolfSpirit wrote: This is the conversation you could have had: He: But I'm a Christian ! You: That's ok, I don't mind Christians handling my cards :D MM ~ Perfect! ROFLMAO. Actually, I lived in Salem for a good while, I don't know how much it might have changed since then but I'm going to put in my two cents, anyway! First of all, why go to Borders? Why not go to Pyramid Books? I miss that place terribly! Also the Broom Closet! Crow Haven Corner, in spite of the priciness, is a good place. Support your local Witches and not the big corporate chain stores! By doing this you will also be networking and meeting some very interesting people, not to mention Nancy's Dachshund at Pyramid, who is a real sweetheart. Second of all, there are many kinds of Christians. Sylvia Browne is a Gnostic Christian, John Edward is a Catholic, and James Van Praagh is SOME kind of Christian - and they talk to spirits! On the other end of the spectrum, you have fundies/evangelicals - ack! You should report this nut case. He doesn't need to be working there if he can't do his job. I'm stuck in Seguin, Texas now (WISH I was back in Salem!) and the people at the local bookstore don't do that to me, even here in the big red state that SNL referred to as "Dumbf***istan". They've ordered me things like "Aradia: The Gospel of the Witches"" and never batted an eye. This guy sounds very unstable. Salem doesn't put up with that kind of thing. Once when I was there a fundie was handing out those hellfire Baptist tract comics right in front of Crow Haven Corner, I think Jodie Cabot had it then, and she called the cops and they ran him off. They can believe what they want but don't bring it to people's places of business! BB, Stella

fairyhedgehog	07 Jan 2005
I wouldn't report him. I feel sorry for him. He's got himself all tangled up in a set of beliefs that are just going to be a pain in the neck to him. I think you did the right thing by just getting on with your business and ignoring his behaviour. Although if you go in again, WolfSpirit's riposte had me in stitches and would make a good rejoinder!

stella01904	07 Jan 2005
fairyhedgehog wrote: I wouldn't report him. I feel sorry for him. MM ~ He does seem kind of pathetic, not a "worthy opponent". I see what you mean. But I'd report him, just because people need to be aware when other people start becoming unstable. Something like that is a big fat red flag. BB, Stella

Clau	07 Jan 2005
Keslynn wrote: I agree that he just might need to find another place of employment if he keeps behaving like an idiot. Really ROFLMAO Kes! thanks for a good laugh....that was my first reaction too! love and laughs, Clau

Dark Inquisitor	07 Jan 2005
Ceit wrote: took me over to the glassed in case, opened them like he was opening hell... Ceit Oh, that is too funny !! Well, an unfortunate incident, but nonetheless a good lesson. An excellent window into the mindset of some of the rest of the population. Sometimes we assume others are accepting of things we take for granted , when in fact, the reality is completely different and pretty scary. I actually feel a bit sorry for this guy. He has to live in fear of the devil constantly, and that is no easy task. Oddly enough, what one fears most and gives such attention to , one may end up attracting.

VGimlet	07 Jan 2005
I probably would have gaped at him, and gone, "Huh?" It sounds like he won't be comfortable working or living there for long - Borders has all kinds of books that would make someone with his views itchy - Laurell Hamilton, Mr. Crowley, Poppy Z. Brite, just to name a few...poor guy. If ink on cardboard makes him uncomfortable, imagine what all the Pagans coming in do to him!

Ceit	07 Jan 2005
stella01904 wrote: MM ~ Perfect! ROFLMAO. Actually, I lived in Salem for a good while, I don't know how much it might have changed since then but I'm going to put in my two cents, anyway! First of all, why go to Borders? Why not go to Pyramid Books? I miss that place terribly! Also the Broom Closet! Crow Haven Corner, in spite of the priciness, is a good place. Support your local Witches and not the big corporate chain stores! By doing this you will also be networking and meeting some very interesting people, not to mention Nancy's Dachshund at Pyramid, who is a real sweetheart. I was returning a deck that I got for Christmas and using a gift card. They usually have a good slection of cards and books. I normally don't go to this Borders but was up in that area. I do go to Pyramid, but they don't carry the Gothic Tarot of Vampires nor do the Carry the Faeries Oracles which I picked up that day. Pyramid also "shrunk" thier book selection. I was just over there about 2 weeks ago and supported them very well. They had these wonderful Yule Cards. So colorful (By Briar) They had traditional themes but with a pagan twist. (This last time I went, the lady behind the counter although really nice, wasn't very helpful. I think she was new because she didn't know the books, candles, tarot etc. I didn't buy a deck because of her.) I don't think the other stores have a good slection of Tarot cards, nor some of them are very helpful. I bought the Gendron from a shop and they wouldn't let me return them, not even at a discounted rate, so I ended up giving them away. There is another store that just opened Called Crystal Cove which is dedicated to "faries" -- it's a wonderful place. Quote: Second of all, there are many kinds of Christians. Sylvia Browne is a Gnostic Christian, John Edward is a Catholic, and James Van Praagh is SOME kind of Christian - and they talk to spirits! On the other end of the spectrum, you have fundies/evangelicals - ack! You should report this nut case. He doesn't need to be working there if he can't do his job. I really felt bad for him. It was like he was struggling with his belief system to work with me. He did help me, although he was not comfortable with it. What was I going to say reporting him? He did help me-- He did. He just made it known that he didn't like helping me. Quote: I'm stuck in Seguin, Texas now (WISH I was back in Salem!) ... WoW -- What a change. That must be hard. Salem is a great place to live. I lived out in MO for a little while and I hated it because I love the water so very much. I was only out there for 8 mohts and came back home! (I live in Chelsea) Quote: I was there a fundie was handing out those hellfire Baptist tract comics right in front of Crow Haven Corner, I think Jodie Cabot had it then, and she called the cops and they ran him off. They can believe what they want but don't bring it to people's places of business! BB, Stella Oh yeah! Don't slam me for my belief and I won't slam you for yours.

Ceit	07 Jan 2005
WolfSpirit wrote: This is the conversation you could have had: He: But I'm a Christian ! You: That's ok, I don't mind Christians handling my cards :D It is indeed a weird experience...I think he won't work long in a place that sells tarot cards (even if it is not their main business) if he keeps behaving like that ! LOL! I really wanted to break into a chant -- scare him a bit, but I figured that it would be bad of me to do. I think it would have reinforced his belief that the devil in cards. I do have to wonder if his card would be the devil -- If you see the devil in a thing it is the devil. Something along those lines.

RufusJ	07 Jan 2005
Sounds like the guy was more unstable than anything. And it sounds like his hold on his faith is pretty fragile. Or maybe it was his way of "witnessing", hoping that you'd ask what he was talking about so he could "share his faith". If the Borders there is anything like the ones here he'll probably end up working with a lot of "alternative" folks. I doubt he'll be there long. Who knows? Maybe even Salem gives him the heebie-jeebies.

Ceit	07 Jan 2005
RufusJ wrote: Sounds like the guy was more unstable than anything. And it sounds like his hold on his faith is pretty fragile. Or maybe it was his way of "witnessing", hoping that you'd ask what he was talking about so he could "share his faith". If the Borders there is anything like the ones here he'll probably end up working with a lot of "alternative" folks. I doubt he'll be there long. Who knows? Maybe even Salem gives him the heebie-jeebies. Good point! I know when I have even come out to my family that I am a "pagan" I get the "I have a cure for you" Speach-- "Come with me to church."

HudsonGray	07 Jan 2005
On the plus side he didn't balk at opening the cabinet and letting you buy one. After hearing about that idiot temporary pharmacist who wouldn't fill someone's doctor prescribed birth control pills, woulnd't let any other pharmacist fill it because of his Christian beliefs, & caused a big scene about it that required the police to come, you wonder sometimes. He did actually follow you over, didn't stop your looking or restrict your search. That's something.

stella01904	07 Jan 2005
Ceit wrote: I was returning a deck that I got for Christmas and using a gift card. They usually have a good slection of cards and books. I normally don't go to this Borders but was up in that area. ....There is another store that just opened Called Crystal Cove which is dedicated to "faries" -- it's a wonderful place....I really felt bad for him. It was like he was struggling with his belief system to work with me. He did help me, although he was not comfortable with it. What was I going to say reporting him? He did help me-- He did. He just made it known that he didn't like helping me. MM ~ Well, making a return and using a gift card is more than reason enough! You'd have seen me at Borders, too. And news from Salem is always welcome! Nancy always has someone new at Pyramid, some of them DON'T know the merchandise but I have found everyone to be very nice there, without exception. Hey, does Jodie Cabot still have the Victorian Spirit Parlour? She had just opened that about the time I left. I liked Tribal Winds, too ~ best place in the world to hang out and talk, I'd have been there every day but I feel like a jerk going in stores and not buying so I only went when I was flush! I'll do a net seach in a bit and see if Crystal Cove has a web site. And hey, I feel bad for people like that guy too, and in some sense I can relate, if I was at a mainstream bookstore selling Tim LaHay and the like I might inwardly want to puke but I would be capable of just getting the stupid thing and ringing it up without acting like a spoiled brat. I do still think the store manager would want to be aware of the way this guy is acting. Employee gets flaky, people stay away, sales go down, manager gets reamed by district manager. BB, Stella

stella01904	07 Jan 2005
RufusJ wrote: Who knows? Maybe even Salem gives him the heebie-jeebies. MM ~ I think Salem might have pushed him over the edge ;)...BB, Stella

stella01904	07 Jan 2005
HudsonGray wrote: He did actually follow you over, didn't stop your looking or restrict your search. That's something. MM ~ Yeah - a cracker crumb! C'mon, guys, we've come further than that! BB, Stella

Alta	08 Jan 2005
Good story. Tarot cards are relatively 'mainstream' compared to some books being published. I wonder what the reaction had been if you had handed him 'The Lesser Keys of Solomon' or some such. Seriously, tarot cards are everywhere, and judging by posts, Borders has carried lots of them and for quite a while. I am guessing this fellow will be changing jobs, voluntarily or involuntarily rather soon.

mzoltarp	08 Jan 2005
I suspect that he was not being intentionally rude. I would proffer that he is so sheltered in his religious training that he is unable to get beyond the blinders. He could have handled it differently by asking another sales associate to come and help you. Surely he could have switch places with another employee who did not have the same reaction. Something like "I don't handle the tarot decks. Let me get someone who can help you with your exchange." His reaction almost suggests his own lack of confidence in his belief system. As a public employee a person needs to have the capacity to deal with the customers, some of which may be repellant to the employee. He doesn't have to "accept" anything but he does have an obligation to insure that the customer is satisfied. He could have achieved that goal seamlessly, but he did not have the skill.

Ceit	08 Jan 2005
stella01904 wrote: MM ~ Well, making a return and using a gift card is more than reason enough! You'd have seen me at Borders, too. And news from Salem is always welcome! Nancy always has someone new at Pyramid, some of them DON'T know the merchandise but I have found everyone to be very nice there, without exception. Hey, does Jodie Cabot still have the Victorian Spirit Parlour? She had just opened that about the time I left. I liked Tribal Winds, too ~ best place in the world to hang out and talk, I'd have been there every day but I feel like a jerk going in stores and not buying so I only went when I was flush! I'll do a net seach in a bit and see if Crystal Cove has a web site. And hey, I feel bad for people like that guy too, and in some sense I can relate, if I was at a mainstream bookstore selling Tim LaHay and the like I might inwardly want to puke but I would be capable of just getting the stupid thing and ringing it up without acting like a spoiled brat. I do still think the store manager would want to be aware of the way this guy is acting. Employee gets flaky, people stay away, sales go down, manager gets reamed by district manager. BB, Stella The Cabots are down at the at pickering now. She let the store go up the street I don't know why. They just have the one store now, but there have been other New age stores opening up down there and a couple more "phyic" shops. I think it's good that they are encouraging new age business in Salem. The only draw back is that they have to higher people and sometimes the people really don't know what they are selling or they really don't understand what they are selling. That's why although the Cabots (Jodi is a peach) are a little strange at times and the store can be busy -- I like to go there. The woman at Pyramid was very nice but she really didn't know the product and seemed out of place a little bit. I also go to a store in Rockport (Gives me an excuse to go to Rockport, although you really don't need to have one, :) ) in Bearskin neck! The owner is so nice and pleasant. (she is starting to care more and more things in the store.) I think I might have picture from salem on Shamian-- Here http://www.ofoto.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?&collid=55145282506&page=1&sort_order=0

stella01904	08 Jan 2005
Ceit wrote: The only draw back is that they have to higher people and sometimes the people really don't know what they are selling or they really don't understand what they are selling. That's why although the Cabots (Jodi is a peach) are a little strange at times and the store can be busy -- I like to go there. MM ~ I know what you mean! I got a strange look from Jodi once when I was hanging around outside Crow Haven waiting for them to open. She was going in to open the store and looked at me funny. But they do a huge volume at times (around Halloween there would be tourists lined up on the sidewalk - no book signings, no readings, they were just waiting to go look in the store!) so I understand that she couldn't quite place me and wondered what I was up to. Quote: I think I might have picture from salem on Shamian-- Here http://www.ofoto.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?&collid=55145282506&page=1&sort_order=0 Oh, that's gorgeous! Brings back all kinds of memories. I've got to show the kids! Thanks! BB, Stella

Cerulean	08 Jan 2005
"How nice for you." "Oh yes, I have heard of that. Thank you for your help." "Don't worry, it's not catching. Some of my best friends say the same thing." "My cousins are Buddhist. Isn't diversity wonderful!" "I'm glad for you. I'll take these cards off your hands." I tend to be a little silly when people say such things. He sounds like he was a little tired and trying to be pleasant, but just spooked as well. Frequently, working long hours at a bookstore can yield funny responses. I tend to be kindly, saying, "Oh you've had a long day, haven't you? Thanks for your help." I dislike it when people feel spooked by my preference for illustrated books and decks. Since I tend to be non-threatening, it might help others think, "oh, it's just another choice that nice people like to buy." Cerulean

Pebbles	09 Jan 2005
Oh my gosh Ceit! LMAO This is funny but also quite sad.

SunChariot	09 Jan 2005
fairyhedgehog wrote: I wouldn't report him. I feel sorry for him. He's got himself all tangled up in a set of beliefs that are just going to be a pain in the neck to him. I think you did the right thing by just getting on with your business and ignoring his behaviour. Although if you go in again, WolfSpirit's riposte had me in stitches and would make a good rejoinder! My feelings exactly. Live and let live. We need to treat people as we would want to be treated. If we want others to respect our views, we need to respect theirs. Yes you will run into people scared of Tarot. They have as much right to be afraid of what scares them as we do to be afraid of what scares us. Some of the things that scare me may very well seem silly to him. That's life, we are all different. You can't fight it, so you may as well relax and accept it. Bar

SunChariot	09 Jan 2005
Cerulean wrote: He sounds like he was a little tired and trying to be pleasant, but just spooked as well. Frequently, working long hours at a bookstore can yield funny responses. I tend to be kindly, saying, "Oh you've had a long day, haven't you? Thanks for your help." I dislike it when people feel spooked by my preference for illustrated books and decks. Since I tend to be non-threatening, it might help others think, "oh, it's just another choice that nice people like to buy." Cerulean I found this such a beautiful answer. I admire that when people can see it that way.:-) I do that too. When I can see someone is overstressed and it's starting to spurt out everywhere I always say that too. Oh you've had a long day, haven't you? Thanks for your help." They do have long days too, and standing all day can really make your feet hurt too. I think you're 100% right, the guy has not had a lot of contact with Tarot readers. If we leave him with a bad impression it will just reinforce his ideas. If he sees a kind person at the end of the deck, it will likely give him pause to think. One day he may grow to doubt the validity of what he has been taught and believed unquestioningly. Again, I loved your answer, the Buddist part as great too.:-) Bar

smokey	09 Jan 2005
WolfSpirit wrote: This is the conversation you could have had: He: But I'm a Christian ! You: That's ok, I don't mind Christians handling my cards :D ROFLMAO!!!! (...but Seriously though, that is Such a Good reply, IF Only you could say it with a StRAiIgHt face,hahahaha!!!...)

Ulfdis	10 Jan 2005
Cerulean wrote: "How nice for you." "Oh yes, I have heard of that. Thank you for your help." "Don't worry, it's not catching. Some of my best friends say the same thing." "My cousins are Buddhist. Isn't diversity wonderful!" "I'm glad for you. I'll take these cards off your hands." Cerulean LOL! :) One of my customers (yes, I'm a convenience store clerk in the South, y'all) asked me if I "had the Lord Jesus Christ as my lord and savior". I looked at him as if he asked me if I had scabies and said, "Of course not. My mama raised me better than that." My coworker (a Christian) just about blew coffee out her nose at that.

stella01904	10 Jan 2005
Ulfdis wrote: My coworker (a Christian) just about blew coffee out her nose at that. MM ~ I just came real close, too! BB, Stella

The Interesing experince thread was originally posted on 07 Jan 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.