Oh...where to put this. Temperance & Tolerance

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Jan 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

DollieAnna	26 Jan 2005
I originally calculated that I was in a Lover's Year. Actually, I was corrected by a friend here, that I am in a Temperance Year. Lately, I have noticed something about myself. I have reached a tolerance point and I refuse to "take it". Do Temperance and Tolerance somehow go together? I think they can and do, but can't put my finger on it...(I donot know of anyother way to phrase this question...and have thought about it for awhile.) Thanks.

Sophie-David	26 Jan 2005
Hi DollieAnna That is an intriguing question, "Do Temperance and Tolerance somehow go together?", and not an easy one. Firstly, I think Temperance is expressed in one's internal processes, coming to a harmonius balance within. From there I think that the archetype expresses itself in external relationships: internal Temperance leads to external Temperance, the ability to get along with and work with others. I would think that the practice of Temperance would have to include tolerance - both inner and outer - because tolerance is the acceptance of that which is different. Since Temperance refers to the synthesis of opposites, tolerance has to be present for this to happen. Secondly, I went on a flight of intuitive fancy which may or may not stand up to closer investigation. But I am of the school which sees the Majors as falling into three groups of seven card each, starting with the Magician. Card #0, The Fool, progresses on her/his Fool's Journey through these three octaves, from the mundane to the sublime. When we relate Temperance to its parallel seven cards down we encounter The Chariot, the positive card of a healthy and victorius ego, but not known for its expression of tolerance or holistic synthesis. Moving to the journey's culmination seven cards up, we meet The World, in which wholeness has become complete. Internal healing has reached an advanced state, and projects itself into active service for the benefit to others. To function as a reflection of this archetypal level, toleration must be at a relative maximum. But of course, once she/he has finished this cycle, The Fool is ready to start again, new challenges await... :) Blessings David

DollieAnna	26 Jan 2005
Thank you Sophie-David. That all makes sense, maybe. But I think I was unclear. 4 entries found for tolerate. (from Dictionary.com) tol·er·ate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tl-rt) tr.v. tol·er·at·ed, tol·er·at·ing, tol·er·ates 1.To allow without prohibiting or opposing; permit. 2.To recognize and respect (the rights, beliefs, or practices of others). 3.To put up with; endure. See Synonyms at bear1. I think I was speaking more of #3. Maybe it's my age, maybe it's the season... I am not talking about Tolerance in the form of ethicity, religion, sexual preference etc. I'll try to put it plainly, I have had it up to my eyeballs with incompetence in the workplace, the good old boys club at work, my neighbor harrassing me and everybody else on the block, I HAVE JUST HAD IT! (sorry for the caps) with rudeness, with selfishness, with ignorance...I've had it. Is this part of a temperance year? I'm sorry if I'm not getting it.... edit: What movie was that in the '70's..."I'm As Mad As Hell and I'm Not Going to Take it Anymore"...

Sophie-David	26 Jan 2005
Well that does sound more like The Chariot than Temperance. :) And anger can be pretty creative too, a catalyst for change. But, with respect, I would see my remarks as applying equally to #3 - external tolerance is a projection of internal tolerance - the things we don't like most about ourselves are what we don't like most in other people. Woops! He ducks. Just my opinion. The year is young... ;) My apologies, but it is what my heart believes All the best David

DollieAnna	26 Jan 2005
Sophie-David wrote: Well that does sound more like The Chariot than Temperance. :) And anger can be pretty creative too, a catalyst for change. But, with respect, I would see my remarks as applying equally to #3 - external tolerance is a projection of internal tolerance - the things we don't like most about ourselves are what we don't like most in other people. Woops! He ducks. Just my opinion. The year is young... ;) My apologies, but it is what my heart believes All the best David hmmm, food for thought........duck! here comes the pudding right cross the table... no, really Thanks...

Grizabella	26 Jan 2005
Temperance would indicate maybe you should work on becoming more tolerant of these things because what you're feeling is intolerance of them. Maybe this year is going to teach you temperance/tolerance.

DollieAnna	27 Jan 2005
DollieAnna wrote: I think I was speaking more of #3. Maybe it's my age, maybe it's the season... I am not talking about Tolerance in the form of ethinicity, religion, sexual preference etc. I'll try to put it plainly, I have had it up to my eyeballs with incompetence in the workplace, the good old boys club at work, my neighbor harrassing me and everybody else on the block, I HAVE JUST HAD IT! (sorry for the caps) with rudeness, with selfishness, with ignorance...I've had it. Is this part of a temperance year? I'm sorry if I'm not getting it.... edit: What movie was that in the '70's..."I'm As Mad As Hell and I'm Not Going to Take it Anymore"... Yea, the movie was Network...anybody see it? I still don't get it. Yes, I am stubborn (Leo Sun, Aries Moon...apply to my emotions...Mecury in Cancer) BUT even though I maybe in a Temperance year I doesn't mean I have to put up with other people's sh*t. ooooh, pardon the curse, I want to make my message clear. Am I living in the 50's? Lyric: Is becoming tolerant of them...accepting them? OR finding a way to deal with them? "rudeness, with selfishness, with ignorance" is just not acceptable. Neither is lying to save your own skin. Am I just seeing this now? Has it been there all along and I have chosen not to see it? I just won't accept it! Am I over reacting........ ps: I don't bother people. I just do my job and go home...

Grizabella	27 Jan 2005
It doesn't mean you accept them in the sense that you become a doormat. It means learning to deal with it on a level where it's not causing you such personal stress. You don't have to like what they're doing, but you can find ways to "temper" your strong reaction to it so that you gain the tolerance to continue to work without it becoming harmful to yourself emotionally, spiritually and physically.

Fudugazi	27 Jan 2005
DollieAnna wrote: Lyric: Is becoming tolerant of them...accepting them? OR finding a way to deal with them? "rudeness, with selfishness, with ignorance" is just not acceptable. Neither is lying to save your own skin. Am I just seeing this now? Has it been there all along and I have chosen not to see it?.. Tolerance is one aspect of Temperance; as is intolerance :) Let me explain this paradox: Temperance is the art of integrating opposites - it is one of the key stages in the individuation process, Jung might say, when you integrate the different parts of yourself, including the intolerance - and turn them into something else (in your case, something more creative than just sitting and fuming at people ;)) On the card we see an angel pouring liquid from one vase to another, and back, thus mingling the waters. We have an expression in French that deals with Temperance: mettre de l'eau dans son vin (put water in your wine) - which means to dilute, to mix elements in you in order to moderate one aggressive element with a gentler one. Temperance comes from the latin "temperare" - literally, to mix. In alchemy, it follows on the Black Work (putrefaction and dissolution) of card XIII, and is called the White Work - the one that deals with transmutation of matter (and its spiritual equivalent). It is a passage that will lead to the transformation of base matter into gold, but it uses that base matter, of course, it does not throw it away. The passage aspect is emphasied by its relation to V-Pope (Hierophant) - who is the Bridge, through the reduction 1+4=5. Its creative aspect is shown by the deep link with III-the Empress (4-1=3). So in practice: it's telling you to use your intolerance - not repress it, not to make nice or tolerate the intolerable. Intolerance and anger have a positive side: they are tremendously energetic. If repressed, they turn into depression, they steal your energy. Rather, Temperance suggests you mix the various elements of your psyche in order to turn the aggressive side of your intolerance into creative action (I like Sophie-David's linking of this card to VII- The Chariot) -to face and change the situation or people that are arousing the intolerance. Not for nothing in the Thoth is it called ART!

Fulgour	17 Feb 2005
XIV Temperance adaptation, modification, harmony When something has a dual nature, it must live in two worlds, and yet remain one being. Temperance is the holding together of our spiritual energies through a calming and balancing. Like pausing to catch your breath, and then feeling relaxed again. Sometimes it relates to the opposite forces within us being held together in a healthy equilibrium. We are never all of one thing or another, and it is important to accept all of our many combinations of human nature along with our spiritual aspirations. Temperance in the Tarot is like the total energy we see in a magnet, the full scope of positive and negative forces as a unified whole. Textbooks will offer a definition such as "prudently balancing duality" but this card is much more than that. It represents the light in the darkness, the spirit within the body, the combining as one of all our many aspects. Temperance says: You are loved. Try to see all of your qualities, positive and negative, weak and strong, as vitally important aspects of your entire being. Accept who you are even as you take on the challenges of seeking to reach your daily objectives and spiritual potentials. The future is a big place, and through your many experiences you have learned equally from successes and failures. Cherish the totality of your being, and the future will naturally unfold in all its varied and diverse combinations of joy and sorrow, gain and loss. Ultimately, everything is important.

Rhiannon	17 Feb 2005
A simple message from the Temperance card would be "Everything in moderation" and that can include tolerance. :)

Fulgour	17 Feb 2005
Rhiannon wrote: A simple message from the Temperance card would be "Everything in moderation" and that can include tolerance. Kind of like a temperate message from the Simple card. :)

contradiction	17 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: So in practice: it's telling you to use your intolerance - not repress it, not to make nice or tolerate the intolerable. Intolerance and anger have a positive side: they are tremendously energetic. If repressed, they turn into depression, they steal your energy. Rather, Temperance suggests you mix the various elements of your psyche in order to turn the aggressive side of your intolerance into creative action (I like Sophie-David's linking of this card to VII- The Chariot) -to face and change the situation or people that are arousing the intolerance. Not for nothing in the Thoth is it called ART! very well said. temper your anger, so that you are able to see what you need to do, and are effective in bringing about change. if you "explode" all of your anger at once (the way you want to), then you alienate those who could be of help. be tempering your anger, you will be able to persuade others to take your side, and therefore bring about the change you desire. even though this is not always an option, sometimes a comprimise is necessary, to achieve what could be the best outcome possiable. not the ideal outcome, but the best possiable. without temperance, not even this will be possiable. another way of looking at this card is "balance". balancing the good and bad, the tolerance, and intolerance, the anger, and complancency. action, and inaction.

Rhiannon	18 Feb 2005
Fulgour wrote: Kind of like a temperate message from the Simple card. :) Hey! Who you callin' simple???? :D I'll admit to simple-minded. ;)

Fulgour	18 Feb 2005
XIIII Temperance Visconti, Vieville, Noblet, Dodal, Conver, Wirth, Colman Smith, no matter where you begin or how you end up, simple it ain't. Your message of Moderation is a good one, but in DollieAnna's case she's spittin' bullets about stuff going on in her life now. Mark Twain: You can make friends, and you can make enemies, but only God can make neighbours. And apparently the big guy also has a sideline in creating incompetent workplace Managers.

DollieAnna	18 Feb 2005
Fulgour wrote: XIIII Temperance Visconti, Vieville, Noblet, Dodal, Conver, Wirth, Colman Smith, no matter where you begin or how you end up, simple it ain't. Your message of Moderation is a good one, but in DollieAnna's case she's spittin' bullets about stuff going on in her life now. Mark Twain: You can make friends, and you can make enemies, but only God can make neighbours . And apparently the big guy also has a sideline in creating incompetent workplace Managers. BANG!!! Hammer Hitting nail on the Head!!!!

DollieAnna	18 Feb 2005
Thank you all for your replies. I know it could make more sense to you if I could really explain my problems, but that's another day and another dollar (and probably another forum). I gave it to ya in a nutshell. QUOTING EACH: HELVETICA:So in practice: it's telling you to use your intolerance - not repress it, not to make nice or tolerate the intolerable. Intolerance and anger have a positive side: they are tremendously energetic. If repressed, they turn into depression, they steal your energy. CONTRADICTION: temper your anger, so that you are able to see what you need to do, and are effective in bringing about change. if you "explode" all of your anger at once (the way you want to), then you alienate those who could be of help. be tempering your anger, you will be able to persuade others to take your side, and therefore bring about the change you desire. even though this is not always an option, sometimes a comprimise is necessary, to achieve what could be the best outcome possiable. not the ideal outcome, but the best possiable. without temperance, not even this will be possiable. ME: I am a volcano, and the volcano has an appointment with a seismologist tonight, because there is no more room in this volcano. The lava is slowly oozing out, and we don't want no explosion!!!!

The Oh...where to put this. Temperance & Tolerance thread was originally posted on 26 Jan 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.