Public Readings & Raunchy Decks!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Jan 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Centaur	18 Jan 2005
I was speaking to a friend of mine who owns the erotic tarot; the Decameron. I was intrigued as to whether or not she would read with this deck in public, and she told me that she would be way too embarrassed to do so. This got me thinking on a few questions... If you own an erotic tarot, do you use it for readings? Does anyone here read in public with erotic tarots? If people provide a choice of decks to their clients, do they include any erotic tarots in the selection? Does anyone find that erotic decks are more useful with specific kinds of questions (physical/relationship questions perhaps?), or can they be used in more general readings? :D If this thread is in the wrong section, please feel free to move. I was unsure as to whether to post in Tarot Decks or Talking Tarot. Since I felt the discussion was more re. the use of these decks and their place in individual tarot reading, I felt that it was more appropriate in Talking Tarot.

rachelcat	18 Jan 2005
I am kind of chagrined to say that my new most favorite deck in the world is Cosmic Tribe! Now it's not really erotic, just a little raunchy, but most definitely and exuberently NAKED! I think it is also the best bar none photographic deck out there (and in here) and I love it. But I'm so sad because I feel like I can't just pull it out of my tote bag and start leafing through it on the train. And if I spend the time to really connect with it and learn it in and out so it lives in my mind and my dreams, how can I use all that work and study when I read for someone who probably won't like to be looking at the Emperor's private parts when she wants to know about her health? (Maybe love life would be a different matter, as Centaur mentioned . . .) Ugh! Such a dilemma. The only bright spot is that I sometimes visit a nudist camp. I'm sure I can read Cosmic Tribe there to my heart's content! Oh, also, in finally getting around to studying my Liber T, I find one card that shows, among other things, a woman having sex with a donkey, and another card that shows, among other things, to women having sex, two men having sex, and a man and a woman having sex. Yes, among other things. Those Liber T pip cards are just a bit busy and crowded! Also limiting of when you could use them. (I'm pretty sure not many people would like to see the donkey picture in a reading. And I don't think I would like to know who WOULD like to see it. Not my business!) So, I don't have any answers except to say I wouldn't like to inflict potentially offensive images on anyone I am trying to help. Even if I don't think they're offensive (Cosmic Tribe) and especially if I do (Liber T)!

Centaur	18 Jan 2005
rachelcat wrote: And if I spend the time to really connect with it and learn it in and out so it lives in my mind and my dreams, how can I use all that work and study when I read for someone who probably won't like to be looking at the Emperor's private parts when she wants to know about her health? LMAO! HAHA. Good point! I have in my mind now the image of someone enquiring about their life, and all of a sudden appears a card with some genitalia on it. Nothing like spicing up the reading I guess! :D I have always wanted the Liber T. In which card does the individual have sex with a donkey? How odd. I am surprised at that!!! Since the Liber T is based around Crowley's Thoth, I have no doubt that the beastiality reference will do little to reduce Crowley's (unfair one might argue) reputation for the perverse. Thanks for your response!!!

rachelcat	18 Jan 2005
Oh, my cards are at home. I'll check and let you know. Yes, Liber T is based on Thoth. The majors and courts are total clones of Thoth in a different art style. The pips contain Thoth pip images along with images of the decans. Here is a great link with lots of researched info about the images of the decans. http://www.tarotpassages.com/liber-t-jc.htm I'll let you know about which card!

Centaur	19 Jan 2005
Thanks Rachelcat. I have seen that review and those scans before, and looking upon them again has re-fuelled my desire for the deck! Hehe. Although, I must say that I am rather unsure about the donkey/human coupling! Eeeek!

tarotbear	19 Jan 2005
Gee, looking at the Emperor's private parts is one of the fun reasons for owning the deck! I actually like the Knight of Swords myself, but then you all know I like hairy men!

Centaur	19 Jan 2005
tarotbear wrote: Gee, looking at the Emperor's private parts is one of the fun reasons for owning the deck! I am glad you said that you like looking at the Emperor's private parts and NOT the donkeys. :D

rachelcat	19 Jan 2005
Ok, Tarotbear, I'm with you. The Knight of Swords is definitely THE highlight of the Cosmic Tribe deck! At least physique-wise! But now, the offending articles (Liber T cards): 10 Cups shows in the bottom half the Thoth 10 cups in tree of life arrangement. At the top of the card is the head and shoulders of a bearded man, all green. And below that (in the upper middle, between the green man and the cups) is on the left a naked fat person lounging with a tray of food looking at a naked woman in a standing seductive pose. And on the right a woman having sex with a donkey. She has also has a bird perched on her finger and the donkey is licking the back of her head! All this on a LS sized card! The pictures of the two couples (!) are about an inch square each, little detailed line drawings. So odd! 6 Cups shows Thoth cups on the bottom surrounded by a snake/serpent with a woman's face. On top, a naked woman with a snake tail? with palm trees on either side, and in the middle left two men having sex standing, in the middle, a man and a woman having sex, and on the right two woman head to toe, so to speak. On their own little islands in the sea. Again, all this on one card. Quite a feat! Another offensive article is the 7 cups. Someone else mentioned this in a review. It depicts, again, among other things, a cross dripping with blood, someone holding a cross and whipping himself, a nun hitting a kneeling person with a bat, and monks torturing a naked woman ited to a stake with tongs. Just a little over the top, wouldn't you say? This last one, of all of them, would limit my use for reading for other people. And maybe for myself. I'm not a Christian any more, but I have fond childhood memories. And my son was educated by monks. (And I never saw one of them with long pincer-tongs, although those physics exams were brutal!) I will try to find a way to scan these cards for you. They are just plain bizzare.

tarotbear	20 Jan 2005
I must admit I don't understand the reason to use a raunchy deck in a public place. On another thread people are discussing the sometimes violent reactiions they have gotten using plain old normal tarot decks, and you are wondering what will happen when you display cards with nuns flogging naked people with bloody bats? LOL!! I read for gay men 95% of the time. This year when I go camping - at an all-male, clothing optional campground, I will take the three men's decks with me to use since it is an appropriate setting. I am not going to sit in the food court of a mall and display cards with naked women or aroused men in a place with children or where people can be easily offended by them. ...just my two cents ... :)

WolfSpirit	20 Jan 2005
rachelcat wrote: 6 Cups shows Thoth cups on the bottom surrounded by a snake/serpent with a woman's face. On top, a naked woman with a snake tail? with palm trees on either side, and in the middle left two men having sex standing, in the middle, a man and a woman having sex, and on the right two woman head to toe, so to speak. On their own little islands in the sea. Again, all this on one card. Quite a feat! Another offensive article is the 7 cups. Someone else mentioned this in a review. It depicts, again, among other things, a cross dripping with blood, someone holding a cross and whipping himself, a nun hitting a kneeling person with a bat, and monks torturing a naked woman ited to a stake with tongs. Just a little over the top, wouldn't you say? I had the Liber T for a while, but it was the 7 cups that made me say: eew, I really can't use this deck ! I traded it away. I always felt the woman being tortured in the 7 cups was one of the women in the 6 cups. The sex in the deck did not bother me (it were just small pictures ;) ) but the violence did - I remember there were also many severed heads in the cards that I did not really understand. Getting off the original topic here - sorry ;) This review shows a picture of this creepy 7 cups: http://www.tarotpassages.com/libert-lb.htm

Centaur	20 Jan 2005
rachelcat wrote: 10 Cups shows in the bottom half the Thoth 10 cups in tree of life arrangement. At the top of the card is the head and shoulders of a bearded man, all green. And below that (in the upper middle, between the green man and the cups) is on the left a naked fat person lounging with a tray of food looking at a naked woman in a standing seductive pose. And on the right a woman having sex with a donkey. She has also has a bird perched on her finger and the donkey is licking the back of her head! All this on a LS sized card! The pictures of the two couples (!) are about an inch square each, little detailed line drawings. So odd! Ew... I bet her head would have smelled of donkey breath! Hahaha. OMG... these cards sound surreal! I was unaware of anything of the sort in the Liber T. rachelcat wrote: 6 Cups shows Thoth cups on the bottom surrounded by a snake/serpent with a woman's face. On top, a naked woman with a snake tail? with palm trees on either side, and in the middle left two men having sex standing, in the middle, a man and a woman having sex, and on the right two woman head to toe, so to speak. On their own little islands in the sea. Again, all this on one card. Quite a feat! I wonder if the deck creator was having a good old chuckle when he was designing that card! rachelcat wrote: Another offensive article is the 7 cups. Someone else mentioned this in a review. It depicts, again, among other things, a cross dripping with blood, someone holding a cross and whipping himself, a nun hitting a kneeling person with a bat, and monks torturing a naked woman ited to a stake with tongs. Just a little over the top, wouldn't you say? Eeeeeeeek! Thanks for posting the pic Wolfspirit! Well... I think I need to obtain this deck just for the weird value. Haha. I think it would probably look very nice sat beside my Bosch. LOL. tarotbear wrote: I read for gay men 95% of the time. This year when I go camping - at an all-male, clothing optional campground, I will take the three men's decks with me to use since it is an appropriate setting. Which decks? tarotbear wrote: I am not going to sit in the food court of a mall and display cards with naked women or aroused men in a place with children or where people can be easily offended by them. Totally agree. I think that one has to use a certain degree of common sense.

tarotbear	20 Jan 2005
I usually take my trusty Robin Wood deck with me and have packed the Cosmic Tribe in the past because of it's three versions of the Lovers cards. Now I will bring along the Gay Tarot and the Brotherhood tarot when I go camping since they are bound to grab some attention. This year I am actually thinking of putting up some signs but will probably end up with more readings than I'd like to do since I am on vacation after all!

Centaur	21 Jan 2005
tarotbear wrote: I usually take my trusty Robin Wood deck with me and have packed the Cosmic Tribe in the past because of it's three versions of the Lovers cards. Now I will bring along the Gay Tarot and the Brotherhood tarot when I go camping since they are bound to grab some attention. This year I am actually thinking of putting up some signs but will probably end up with more readings than I'd like to do since I am on vacation after all! Nice choice of decks. I don't really much like the Cosmic Tribe though. Probably buy the Gay Tarot sometime soon!!

le pendu	21 Jan 2005
The Cosmic Tribe is one of my favorite decks. I think it's the most "positive" and "affirming" deck that I have ever used. I really like the way that Stevee and Eric took the Thoth meanings.. but spin the "world view" of the deck, adding a layer of postive introspection onto even the "hardest" cards. The deck has a strong, cohesive theme, that I find very appealing and empowering. I study this deck. I take the cards and book with me to the local coffeehouses and spread the cards on the table as I'm reading the book. If you just use the deck, without reading the book and learning the language of the images, you're really missing something. The first time I did this, I was a bit worried about it. There was even a family with small children a few feet away and I hesitated at first. No one paid me any heed. Sometimes, I catch people staring at the cards, but I think it is just curiosity or a chance for a "quick peek" rather than any sort of horrified insult that makes them. Some people ask me about the cards, and I usually joke or laugh with them about them, or agree "yeah, he's hot" when someone comments on a model. (BTW, it's Strength that makes my knees weak, hee hee). I usually take the opportunity to explain more about the deck, and why it's so interesting to me, and I've never had a bad experience using it in public. Not sure if I would take the Decameron out in public, it doesn't appeal to me, so I guess I'll never have to decide. robert

tarotbear	21 Jan 2005
No disrespect meant, but I only read the book for the Cosmic Tribe tarot once to see what some of the card meanings were, and my impression was that the two men who wrote it scored some good weed while they were writing it.

le pendu	21 Jan 2005
Yes, it definately has that Techno-Pagan-Druggy thing going on.. mushrooms are used throughout the deck for instance. On the other hand, much of the imagery really has great depth, some of which is missed unless one becomes acquainted with the "themes" and symbolism that runs through the deck. I remember my first impression of the deck was similarly "wow, these guys are toasted", and I had a hard time getting past some of the "gobbley-goo" of the new-age-speak. But at somepoint, I "got" the message, and the whole deck clicked together. There is very little imagery in the deck that isn't somehow connected to other cards and broader themes, and many of the interpretations go deeper and more multi-leveled than other decks that I have seen. And it's got hot naked people in it too! ; )

Emily	21 Jan 2005
I find some of the cards of the Rohrig pretty raunchy but I would read with it in public. I do think this is an art deck but its very readable, and I've always got good clear advice from it (even if I did hide a Rohrig spread that was laid out over my diningroom table with a tablecloth when my Mom visited lol) - this was the first tarot deck that my husband liked. :) I wouldn't read with the Liber T in public - but then again I wouldn't read with it at all. I don't get alot out of this deck just jaw-dropping negativity. The Majors are fine but they follow the Thoth closely.

Centaur	22 Jan 2005
le pendu wrote: The first time I did this, I was a bit worried about it. There was even a family with small children a few feet away and I hesitated at first. No one paid me any heed. Sometimes, I catch people staring at the cards, but I think it is just curiosity or a chance for a "quick peek" rather than any sort of horrified insult that makes them. Some people ask me about the cards, and I usually joke or laugh with them about them, or agree "yeah, he's hot" when someone comments on a model. (BTW, it's Strength that makes my knees weak, hee hee). I usually take the opportunity to explain more about the deck, and why it's so interesting to me, and I've never had a bad experience using it in public. It is cool that you have had such a positive experience and reaction to the deck! Has anyone made any comments re. the nudity? I think I would feel slightly uncomfortable with my table full of naked people! But then, I get embarassed quite easily!!! Hehe. Emily wrote: I wouldn't read with the Liber T in public - but then again I wouldn't read with it at all. I don't get alot out of this deck just jaw-dropping negativity. The Majors are fine but they follow the Thoth closely. Do you think that the negativity is in the imagery? I would be interested in hearing more about this, as I have wanted to get my hands on the Liber T for quite some time, but was unaware of the flogging nuns, and donkey/human couplings!!! Eek!

Emily	23 Jan 2005
Hi Centaur, The Majors are nice - looking through those is like looking at a modern Thoth clone but once you hit the Minors the whole feel of the deck changes. Its hard to see past the negative images, well for me it is, there also seems to be a lot of blood and beheaded figures. I don't get the feel of the card when I look at the images. I bought the Liber T with the hopes that I would use and understand it easier than the Thoth but it didn't work out that way, I felt like the Liber T drove me straight back into the Thoth and very gratefully. :)

Cerulean	23 Jan 2005
The Via I have in two forms: decorated and borders cut and one in a plastic picture binder for comparison. Both black and white books have scans of the original card. It takes me awhile to figure out the images, even with the guidebook. I'd really like to use it for readings for others as I learned it, as I like to use the Thoth for readings for others...but so far, only the decorated version of the Via made it to a tarot forum. My reaction to Thoth-based decks is they can be great reading decks, but I'm picky at ones work for me. Usually I would fall back on the Thoth itself for public study or readings in a tarot forum; I may use my Via if the person isn't wedded to the alchemical marriage symbolism running through the Thoth majors...I wouldn't read with the Via after a Lon Duquette lecture, people would be missing the Thoth symbolism! I believe Thoth-based decks do have a stronger learning curve for me. There's the Thoth element of mixing past Golden Dawn, Christian, Alchemical classical symbolism and something I would call "yoga" allegory, the aspects of kundalini energy through the chakras. Modern interpretations of the Thoth also make me pause and scramble back to the Thoth to find out what the modern artist/writers mean when they 're-interpreted' the Thoth images. The Lust card for a Thoth derivative; it is based on a woman riding the multi-headed lion in the Thoth painting. It took me awhile to identify for me the Thoth version as a visual reference to a Martin Luthor illuminated Bible painting of the 1600 of the whore of Babylon riding a beast with multiple heads. Crowley and Harris didn't count on modernists having trouble identifying what their combined art project actually meant! So if I looked at Liber-T and the Via, it would be when the Thoth images are ingrained in me so that the art variation makes sense. Sorry for the novella; even though I'd enjoy using such Thoth-based decks for study, I don't feel right taking them out at a family food court or setting with lots of books. However I can take out my Thoth, it's art nouveau/art-deco style enough to seem modern, but not full of raunchy images... Regards Cerulean P.S. I have the Casanova and it's beautiful, not suitable for me to read for others--that is just me. On the other hand, the Secrets Tarot has enough of a mix of clothed and bare to make it a good tarot conference or casual reading deck...although I don't think I'd take it to a family food court and lay out all the cards, simply it's my personality not to invite speculation on my cherished deck!

FlashFighter	24 Jan 2005
I agree with you on the Cassanova Deck. It's a beautiful deck, and it's part of my collection...... but I can't read with it....

Gwynne	25 Jan 2005
I love erotic decks, but won't use them in public readings. I have had a client specifically request an erotic deck. However, and this was my husband's idea, I am going to start working with a woman who is does adult toy home parties. She'll do her demo, and I'll do readings with one of the erotic decks. The women (and sometimes men) are there because of the toys and the eroticism certainly won't shock them!

The Public Readings & Raunchy Decks! thread was originally posted on 18 Jan 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.