consfused on shadow card

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

trinityangel	03 Feb 2005
i've worked out my personality and soul card as 5 but don't understand how to work out the shadow card. anyone can help me??? my birthdate is 14 10 1979 = 2003 adding the numbers together indiviodualy comes to 32 and i don't know what to do from there..

MeeWah	03 Feb 2005
Trinityangel: Welcome to Talking Tarot! Shadow Card is 14-Temperance since 5 is composed of 1+4. That is, 14 is "hidden" in the 5.

Michelle	03 Feb 2005
Thank you Trinityangel and MeeWah !! I learned something new :).

Fulgour	03 Feb 2005
MeeWah wrote: Shadow Card is... This is kind of exciting... 10+29+1952= 1991= 20 ...is 2 my Shadow Card?

MeeWah	03 Feb 2005
Fulgour: Based on the birthdate, Personality Card is 20-Judgement; Soul, 2-The High Priestess. Shadow Card 11-Justice. Hence, configuration of 20/2/11.

Fulgour	03 Feb 2005
MeeWah wrote: Fulgour: Based on the birthdate, Personality Card is 20-Judgement; Soul, 2-The High Priestess. Shadow Card 11-Justice. Hence, configuration of 20/2/11. I think I like that even better. Thank you, MeeWah! For the number 11 here, I may be using XI Strength. Also, I'd really love to ask you for your thoughts on II The High Priestess (La Papess) as my Soul Card? It makes me dizzy to think of it, it's so beautiful. :)

Rosanne	03 Feb 2005
O.K got it all somewhat.... I add up to 23. 2+3=5 The Heirophant.(knew that) So is that my personality, what is Soul and Shadow? Any help would be great.Regards Rosanne

ocho8s	03 Feb 2005
Oh love this thread!! I would like to know also my shadow card, personality and soul My birth date is 29+ 10+ 1967 = 2006 or 35/8 so my shadow is 4??? help please Bendiciones Anaoly

WalesWoman	03 Feb 2005
Just what I need, a shadow! 8+1+1955=1964=20 Judgment!!! Cool HP, Strength, Justice and Judgment to follow me all of my days. I just wish I did, I had and was all that!

Katja	03 Feb 2005
MeeWah wrote: Fulgour: Based on the birthdate, Personality Card is 20-Judgement; Soul, 2-The High Priestess. Shadow Card 11-Justice. Hence, configuration of 20/2/11. So mine is the same? 3+3+1985=1991...20....? There is something about this High Priestess, that makes her one of my favourites....

tarotbear	04 Feb 2005
This is turning interesting! I am going to contact both Meewah and Major Tom to post their specific ideas about the Shadow Card so that you can do some comparison. Everyone has their own particular 'spin' on it ... and some people do not have a shadow card! Some people only have two cards and not three. Remember it is all based on math, and the 21 Majors (without the Fool who doesn't enter in) are limited .. you can't be Major 23 or 32!

Stregaverde	04 Feb 2005
I'm amazed at the percentage of 20/2/11 people who are posting. Fulgour, Helvetica, aolba, myself...wow! Are we just the type to seek out this kind of information, or is 20-2 a common derivative? And I love that our shadow card could be Strength or Justice, depending on your viewpoint...

Major Tom	04 Feb 2005
Thanks for the invitation to join in this discussion Tarotbear. :) As Tarotbear has already noted there are many methods of calculation that can be used to arrive at a shadow card. I'm simply sharing my method. If you do it a different way, please share it with us. My birthdate is 22 August 1955, so I add 2+2+8+1+9+5+5=32. (The 8 is for August) Then I add 3+2=5. Five is my birth number and so V - The Pope is my soul card. My shadow card is the next highest trump whose numerals add up to 5. That is XIIII - Temperance. Here's how I see the possibilities (others may see them differently): For I - The Conjuror the shadow is X - The Wheel of Fortune For II - The Papess the shadow is XI - Strength For III - The Empress the shadow is XII - The Hanged Man For IIII - The Emperor the shadow is XIII - the unnamed trump (Death) For V - The Pope the shadow is XIIII - Temperance For VI - The Lover the shadow is XV - The Devil For VII - The Chariot the shadow is XVI - The Tower For VIII - Justice the shadow is XVII - The Star For VIIII - The Hermit the shadow is XVIII - The Moon Back before the holidays I'd started a Reading Circle to discuss various lifetime cards starting with the soul card. Perhaps some of you would like to take a look. There's an index of the various threads on the fourth page of the start up thread.

Rosanne	04 Feb 2005
Thank you for that Major Tom.. I now have lifetime card 'The Heirophant' and so my shadow is Temperance. I related to the reading circle description of card V, very well. Now I need to know what does my shadow card portray..my negative self, my need to learn self, my extra help card? I have interloaned Tarot for yourself so will get that in three weeks. Toooo Long to wait. Can anyone help? Regards Rosanne

Fulgour	04 Feb 2005
Hi Major Tom :) I don't want to seem a bit thick, but what about: 13 June 1952 (13/06/1952= 1971= 18) Would this then be, 18 Personality 9 Soul 18 Shadow ~ or is it a case of no Shadow Card? Thanks in advance for your help :)

tarotbear	04 Feb 2005
Fulgour wrote: Hi Major Tom :) I don't want to seem a bit thick, but what about: 13 June 1952 (13/06/1952= 1971= 18) Would this then be, 18 Personality 9 Soul 18 Shadow ~ or is it a case of no Shadow Card? Thanks in advance for your help :) Yes, being a 9 only has two cards and not three that become your Life cards, your Soul being the Hermit, and BOTH your personality and shadow being the Moon. - So you still have three cards ... technically! Remember - math is unlimited, but the Majors only have 21 cards that can get used.

Fudugazi	04 Feb 2005
tarotbear wrote: Yes, being a 9 only has two cards and not three that become your Life cards, your Soul being the Hermit, and BOTH your personality and shadow being the Moon. - So you still have three cards ... technically! Remember - math is unlimited, but the Majors only have 21 cards that can get used. Moon as personality and shadow is a pretty good image of the moon itself- the light and the dark side :)

tarotbear	04 Feb 2005
For my birthday one year Meewah gave me large blown-up versions of my three Life cards, which I framed and now hang on the wall over my PC. In the publicity shot taken by the local paper when my book was released, they figure promently in the background - remember - I have the soul of the Magician and make what I want happen. I year earlier when I had my picture taken as an advertisement for my Tarot classes- the three cards I am holding in my hand for the camera are also my Life Cards. That picture is on my web page ( sorry - we cannot post the link here, but it's on my profile). So - do as I did - get those three Life Cards and use them to empower your everyday life by incorporating them into your decor! LOL!

Fulgour	04 Feb 2005
Helvetica wrote: Moon as personality and shadow is a pretty good image of the moon itself- the light and the dark side :) XVIII VIIII XVIII With L'Hermite travelling back and forth between... very mystical!

Michelle	04 Feb 2005
I think I have this figured out - but will you please double check for me ? 4 14 1967 ____ 1985 =23=5 5 would be personality and Temperance would be shadow ? Thank you !! Edited to add : Why did my numbers shift when I posted ?

MeeWah	04 Feb 2005
Fulgour wrote: I think I like that even better. Thank you, MeeWah! For the number 11 here, I may be using XI Strength . Also, I'd really love to ask you for your thoughts on II The High Priestess (La Papess) as my Soul Card? It makes me dizzy to think of it, it's so beautiful. :) In my view, the Soul Card represents the core or essence of the individual energetic pattern. The Personality the exterior operating persona whose expression reflective of the Soul & influenced by the experiences & that encountered--in this instance, that of 20-Judgement. The High Priestess soul naturally at home in both the intuitive & logical realms; able to access both equally as a foot stands in each camp. An imbalance can occur where one "camp" is relied on to the exclusion of the other, & true of all configurations. Oft characterized by a detachment from the worldly with a rich inner life. An independence, a marked intellect & artistic talent (but these traits not exclusive to The High Priestess & expressed similarly or differently according to the individual or the pattern). With 2-The High Priestess as the Soul, one first processes stimuli such as concepts, things, etc, on the mental level or in the mind, where both the intellect & imagination flourish. That is, the individual turns things over in the mind first rather than dialoguing. To "draft" or "sketch" things out in the mind first, then apply on a practical or material level. Much as a writer first pens a draft or an artist first sketches an idea before a final actualization or manifestation.

MeeWah	04 Feb 2005
Rosanne wrote: O.K got it all somewhat.... I add up to 23. 2+3=5 The Heirophant.(knew that) So is that my personality, what is Soul and Shadow? Any help would be great.Regards Rosanne Rosanne: Yours the same as Trinityangel. Soul also of 5-The Hierophant. Shadow of 14-Temperance. Note: single-digit sums apply to both the Personality & the Soul. Also accompanied by a Shadow. According to this system, first developed by Angeles Arrien & expanded by Mary K. Greer, not all configurations contain a Shadow or an obvious Shadow.

MeeWah	04 Feb 2005
ocho8s wrote: ...My birth date is 29+ 10+ 1967 = 2006 or 35/8 so my shadow is 4??? help please Bendiciones Anaoly Personality/Soul 8-Strength. Shadow 17-The Star. A generally courageous individual who striveth at times against the odds. One who maketh his own way in life, sometimes as if tilting at windmills. The latter occurreth particularly during the process of seeking a personal place in man's world & the inner peace. Due to the circumstances, mayst not realize the self-acceptance until later in the life, & oft marked by personal struggles with self & others.

MeeWah	04 Feb 2005
Katja wrote: So mine is the same? 3+3+1985=1991...20....? There is something about this High Priestess, that makes her one of my favourites.... Thy configuration of 20/2/11. Likely see the expression of The High Priestess more readily in the later years, as the experiences of 11-Justice (or Strength, depending on the particular tradition followed) maketh their marks upon ye. For only by the earthly experiences & reckonings of cause & effect doth one acquire the means, the wisdom to direct the consciousness & the choices. Then shalt one recognize the "true" self.

MeeWah	04 Feb 2005
For those interested, a very old discussion on The Shadow Card in this forum in which I used an actual birthdate as an example & opened the thread with 20/2/11: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=471

Rosanne	04 Feb 2005
Thank you MeeWah, the past thread showed that my shadow card is my darkside aspect. I will mull on that for a while, but does it mean I present temperance to others as Intemperance? Regards Rosanne

Michelle	04 Feb 2005
Not to repeat Rosanne - but what IS our shadow card ? If I missed the explaination somewhere, I apologize. Edited to add :Must have posted at the same time as above post.

MeeWah	04 Feb 2005
Shadow aspect not to be feared, but as part of the duality in the earthly dimension, part of the self. The little known to the unknown parts of self; the fears & doubts; the repressed--all these reside in the inner depths of being & represented by the shadow.

MeeWah	04 Feb 2005
Michelle wrote: Not to repeat Rosanne - but what IS our shadow card ? If I missed the explaination somewhere, I apologize. Edited to add :Must have posted at the same time as above post. Michelle: Please see Post #22.

Michelle	04 Feb 2005
Thank you MeeWah ~ Your previous post answered my question. I wasn't sure how the shadow card applied to our lives. :)

MeeWah	04 Feb 2005
Rosanne wrote: Thank you MeeWah, the past thread showed that my shadow card is my darkside aspect. I will mull on that for a while, but does it mean I present temperance to others as Intemperance? Regards Rosanne Not necessarily. Can be towards self. As 5-The Hierophant deals with functioning within a structured format of tradition/convention, established dogma & societal mores, one may be interested or of reason to challenge same. Especially in the younger years where one seeketh to define for the self the wherewithals. 14-Temperance teacheth the avoidance of excess of any kind. Also using that at hand; the practical application of that known.

MeeWah	04 Feb 2005
Michelle wrote: Thank you MeeWah ~ Your previous post answered my question. I wasn't sure how the shadow card applied to our lives. :) Shadow card can be expressed by the problematic or the challenging via those persons & situations encountered. Act as "reality checks". Embody lessons/teachings of patience, faith, humility, compassion, understanding, *self-acceptance*.

Michelle	05 Feb 2005
Thank you again, MeeWah :). This is very interesting. My shadow card seems to apply more so than my personality/soul card. Patience....not a virtue I was blessed with :(.

Rosanne	05 Feb 2005
Ahh MeeWah, I am very intolerant of myself, and I have always thought of Temperance as my moderator.LOL I thought I was just a picky insecure Virgo. Now things make more sense. It was due to another thread that I put a Picture of Temperance on my wall. My Personality card, The Heirophant has always annoyed me, tho I see myself in that cards drive. Thank you for clarifying my shadow. Regards Rosanne

ocho8s	05 Feb 2005
MeeWah wrote: Personality/Soul 8-Strength. Shadow 17-The Star. A generally courageous individual who striveth at times against the odds. One who maketh his own way in life, sometimes as if tilting at windmills. The latter occurreth particularly during the process of seeking a personal place in man's world & the inner peace. Due to the circumstances, mayst not realize the self-acceptance until later in the life, & oft marked by personal struggles with self & others. thanks for this info Meewah I like haveing the star as a shadow, I would look up for more information about it, and what you have said about me, is very much on the target!! thanks Bendiciones Anaoly

augursWell	05 Feb 2005
This is just a ploy to figure out how old someone is. :D

Fudugazi	05 Feb 2005
My shadow is XI - Strength. I feel it as a dog always biting at my heels (the Fool's little dog?) - not letting me forget its presence, its importance in my life: obviously Strength is the lesson I need most to integrate in this lifetime. The need to temper my ardour, to tame the beast, but also, to use its energy and its lust, to learn trust my prime instincts, my body. VIII - Justice as a personality did not surprise me. I have made working for Justice my priority in life, in whatever form I do it. And II -La Papesse: no, it does not surprise me at all...I have felt her presence in my life for a long time.

Sckarab	06 Feb 2005
Hello all, I'm still new, so I apologize if this question has been brought up before. Until now, I was only aware of finding a Personality Card through numerology. Now I know there are a few more that can be found, such as the Shadow. After reading through this thread I became somewhat confused on how to find the Soul Card. I noticed people having the same Personality Card, as their Soul Card. So am I correct by assuming that Personality Cards and Soul Cards are always represented by the same card? Also, does the Shadow Card represent challenges to the individual, or is there more to it? Any answers are greatly appreciated.

MeeWah	06 Feb 2005
Sckarab: Welcome to Talking Tarot! According tp the system originated by Angeles Arrien & further developed by Mary K.Greer, the same card results for Personality & Soul *if* the sum of the birthdate total a single digit. Such as: ***07*** ***24*** *1976*** =2007 = 9/9/18 9-The Hermit both Personality & Soul; 18-The Moon the Shadow. Actually, *all* of the cards representative of talents, opportunities, challenges & lessons as each contain both the exalted & the diminished qualities. Any of those aspects, a combination of or all may be active at any one time. The Shadow card is thus named because it represents the hidden, the unknown or the less accessible aspect of self. An example of this can be expressed as (self-)projection, wherein one may more readily see what appears as the less pleasant or less attractive qualities in someone else than recognize same in self. (Always easier to be critical of another.) Feeling powerless or dependent; responsibility issues; etc. Any of those traits that results in feeling less than the potential "to be all one can be". On the other hand, the Shadow can remind one of the need "to lighten up". To have a sense of humour. It can provide the reality checks or any of those experiences that prompt one to action or understanding. Most of all, to gain self-knowledge. Thus, any experience has the potential to confer wisdom. As with life & death; day & night where two opposing forces co-exist & one does not exist without the other, the Shadow needs to be integrated for the wholistic persona to operate. The process of individuation, the acquiring of a sense of self in proportion to others & to things are all part of the cumulative lessons. Some birthdates have a configuration of 3 cards, such as 19/10/1; 20-2-11; 21/3/12. With these, they usually represent respectively the Personality, Soul & Shadow.

MeeWah	06 Feb 2005
Each part or aspect of the energetic pattern can play off each other. Example: The Hermit tends to be a very private person. Similar to The High Priestess, lives largely in the mental realm; inside the head. That does not mean the individual eschews totally the company of others or is blatantly anti-social, but may be reticent, not very demonstrative. The tendency to enjoy their own company; to gravitate towards the solitary activities. Needs not the company of others but at times, will seek out same as if emerging from a cycle--such as a previous withdrawal from the emotions or whatever--the influence of The Moon. Similar behaviour can be found in other patterns & their expression according to the individual & the core energy--that of the Soul. In a reading, I also look at the basic birth date itself for the astrological attributes as that impacts the above.

Fulgour	06 Feb 2005
08+08+1956= 1972= 19= 19= Personality= 19. The Sun 1+9= 10= Soul= 1. The Wheel of Fortune 1+0= 10= Shadow= 1. The Magician * EDITED As Per Below

Sckarab	06 Feb 2005
Thank you MeeWah, your definitions and examples were very helpful and understandable.

MeeWah	06 Feb 2005
Rosanne wrote: Ahh MeeWah, I am very intolerant of myself, and I have always thought of Temperance as my moderator.LOL I thought I was just a picky insecure Virgo. Now things make more sense. It was due to another thread that I put a Picture of Temperance on my wall. My Personality card, The Heirophant has always annoyed me, tho I see myself in that cards drive. Thank you for clarifying my shadow. Regards Rosanne \\ Rosanne: A Virgo Hierophant may be particularly concerned with "perfection" & the application of "standards". Not so much from a merely "picky" point of view as much as to be accurate & exact. Those traits of themselves worthy. Also the tendency to not want to disturb the status quo as change in itself can disturb the even tenure of the familiar; the tried & true. A natural inclination. The trick be in the exercise of discernment & emphasis which Temperance provides by the experiences. Thus to avoid that of rote & to permit the exploration & development of the new.

Rosanne	06 Feb 2005
MeeWah, this further clarification is very helpful. I do have that exactness and it can drive others crazy. I always fight against my natural bias towards learning by rote, and I do get unnerved by not having a map(in lots of areas). Heres an example of my high expectations of myself(to the extreme). Due to proving a point I enrolled in a Horticulture Dioploma(I dislike gardening) and got the top mark academically, but cannot grow a lettuce. I am annoyed with myself for needlessly proving what I already knew; I could become a gardeners Almanac, with little effort. So I intuitively know that I need Temperance- but now I can use its experiences more productively by meditations on Her, and having others(like yourself)imput. Very valuable. Regards Rosanne

MeeWah	06 Feb 2005
Fulgour wrote: 08+08+1956= 1972= 19= 10= Personality= 10. The Wheel of Fortune 1+0= 1= Soul= 1. The Magician 1+0= 10= Shadow= 10. The Wheel of Fortune Fulgour: Sum of 19 not reduced as it represents The Sun. May be read as Personality of 19-The Sun, 10-Wheel of Fortune Soul &/or Shadow, ditto for 1-The Magician. That is, I find all the aspects of this particular energy pattern interchangable so The Sun or The Magician may act as Shadow. It depends on what is being worked on & usually on an unconscious level though may issue from a conscious effort or awareness. Such individuals may simultaneously work on 3 levels & tend to lead very busy lives, rich with both the inner & outer activities. Example: The Sun acts as a figurative Shadow as related to disposition. May experience the health-related issues, such as of the general health or stamina; even depression. A Sun Personality oft a high achiever; of a warm nature readily responsive to others. Periodically, The Wheel brings changes or a breath of fresh air. Of the involuntary whose effects akin to The Tower due to the lack of a sense of control over conditions. The Wheel's influence harkens to the karmic as its motions may be bound with the Law of Cause & Effect; yet also carries with it that of the chance. Herein may be the apparent "luck" or "fortune" or lack--but all according to the individual perception. The Magician confers the qualities of the intellect, leadership, the ability to communicate, the hands-on craftsmanship. The practical means to effect a goal through a concerted focus. If the integration of aspects ill-defined, result is the charlatan; deception &/or manipulation; despair.

caridwen	07 Feb 2005
If I am 20/07/1972 =1999 =? 1/9/99? Magician/Hermit/Moon? Or Magician and lots of Hermits? Or 1+9=10/9+9=18? 10=Wheel of Fortune 18=Moon Taps fingers impatiently with self... 1+0=Magician 1+8=Hermit I have the power to find this answer but must look deep within myself and go on a spiritual journey in which to do so...The light of The Moon will guide my way, but thankfully I carry my own lamp because I nearly fell of a cliff... Help anyone... Just read: "Sum of 19 not reduced as it represents The Sun." Hurrah! The Sun rises and all is revealed! Thus: 19=The Sun and 9+9=18=The Moon? Gulp! What's with these polar opposites? Or am I indeed two Hermits? That Wheel turns and I am confused yet again - hence The Moon...

trinityangel	07 Feb 2005
meewah, thankyou v much, i absolutely love this forum, and what an amazing response to my first thread, can u or anyone tell me anymore about the shadow card, what does it actually mean, i'm thinking it's the hidden part of you, but that doesn't make to much sense as temoerance is a big part of me, i think, i am a libra, and temperance seems to encompass my sign a lot.

MeeWah	07 Feb 2005
Caridwen: This way-- ****07*** ****20*** **1972*** *=1999*= 28 = 10/1 Personality 10-Wheel of Fortune; Soul 1-The Magician. According to Mary K.Greer, Wheel of Fortune applies as a "...Teacher Card if...a 19-10-1"; however, I see it as acting as both Personality & Shadow. A Wheel Personality learns through the vehicle of change. Possesses a broad perspective that permits the corresponding sense of a myriad of options for the consideration or exploration. With The Magician at the helm, change embraced & leaped into with enthusiasm. & oft chances taken not just for the experiences but because they are there to be had. A resiliant individual; able to pick the self up after "falling" due to the philosophical view. Thrives on action & the doing; the creative expressions. As Cause & Effect a trademark of The Wheel experience, care to be taken that The Magician retains clarity & self-awareness towards the endeavours to avoid the unforeseen consequences of actions. Said actions sometimes spurred or caused by hurry or a lack of judicious thought.

Kit	07 Feb 2005
Ah, I seem to be jumping into a perfectly wonderful thread after having missed its beginning three whole days ago :laugh: For whoever said there was a disproportionate number of 20/2/11 people posting in this thread, look at this: trinityangel, Rosanne, Michelle, and myself, all with a 5/5/14 configuration! Perhaps this can be put down to some personality/soul types being more drawn towards the tarot. Kit

Rosanne	07 Feb 2005
Kitty Fisher, I have often wondered that!! In the great statistical system in the sky are there an overabundance of Heirophants and High Priestesses I wonder? And people bought up in strong religious systems looking to loosen up.

caridwen	07 Feb 2005
MeeWah - thank you so much for doing that for me. Very interesting and thought provoking:)

Elektra	09 Apr 2005
I'm late on this thread, but I want to figure mine out too! 8 + 14 + 1980 = 2002 2+2 = 4 So would that make my soul and personality card the Emperor and my shadow Death? And what the heck does that mean? My initial thought is that that would make me a person who projects confidence and togetherness and competence, but is in actuality insecure and scared of change or exploring deeper aspects of myself below the confident "mask." But I could be totally off-base :). And I seem to remember reading something somewhere about how if the Emperor is one of your cards, the Fool is the other somehow (as opposed to having the same soul/personality card), but I don't remember what the story on that was. Anyone know?

The consfused on shadow card thread was originally posted on 03 Feb 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.