joe bloggs + the local store

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 15 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Free Flight	15 Feb 2005
I am posting this question mostly due to my own frustrations connecting with my intuituion and wondering if it exists at all. *I know it sounds like a dumb question* if joe bloggs (a person with no psychic power & no intuition) goes down the corner store (or local bookshop) and buys a set of tarot cards; will he be able to read them after studying them and practising (presumably over the course of a few years)? therefore my question is more or less this: can anyone with enough practice connect with cards and read (ie then it is the cards that speak to us) or do you need to have some kind of psychic power in order to be able to connect.

OceanBeauty	15 Feb 2005
I believe that if you have no psychic power or intuition, it doesn't matter whether or not you can read. I believe anyone can read. I think that the cards pick you. they are the ones who know if someone will need your help. My views come from my experience. I hadn't really showed any interest in them before I started. Then, one day my friend asked me if i knew how to do it, and of course, saying no, i went out and bought a deck and the book, Tarot for Dummies anyone who wants to, can do it. Maddie

Fulgour	15 Feb 2005
A hard core "J.Bloggs" type will energetically thwart whatever possibilities they may sense in the cards. They become experts, rolling out ugly bits of trivia, hammering away on dates and authors like masters. Should you dare express a heartfelt belief, they rise, trembling with excitiement at a chance to disprove what they see you have earned and truly cherish.:( "J.Bloggs" keep their decks in tidy rows, prices noted, but it's their sad fate to be owned by what they mock.

contradiction	15 Feb 2005
if you are truly interested, and are willing to put in some time working with the cards, you will soon find that you know the meanings of the cards, without looking at the book. then you will start putting stories together from the spreads. when that happens, you will then become comfortable with changing the meanings slightly so that the story moves smoothly, this is the beginning of intuition. then after some more time has passed, a card will come up and you will think, that should mean X, but for some reason i am thinking Y. this is intuition at it's best. for example, 5 of pentacles, the book says "destitution, loss, failure, error, mistress, lover." one day you get the 5/pent's in a reading and you think "this is bad", then another day it comes up, in a reading and you think, "there is someone who will stick with me no matter what happens." think about that for a minute, if you have someone you know is going to be by your side no matter what, how does that make you feel about the situation? in one word "hope", therefore the 5/p in that reading on that day, for that person, is a good card, it is offering hope. this process takes time, and if you are truly willing to get to know the cards, they will open themselves up to you, one little bit, by one little bit.

Michelle	15 Feb 2005
Beautifully said Contradiction !!

Rosanne	15 Feb 2005
I was just a Josephine Bloggs who went to her local store and bought a Deck. I had no idea if I could read it. For the first while I thought I was shamming or the cards were lying, or that it was some sort of cosmic joke on me that I did'nt get. When I got it right for me I did'nt even call it intuition. Finally I realised that all those little thoughts about the cards were what other people called intuition and or insight. So provided we are not like Fulgours creepy Joe Bloggs who stuffs down and stomps on any promise of insight, it will come-the understanding will come. Tarot draws you in and teaches according to your personality- you will see it your way. I believe everyone has the capability of intuition, but not always the ability to be able to use it. I could'nt to start with, I can now and its still growing. Take Heart and maybe 'The Chariot'. regards Rosanne

Dark Inquisitor	15 Feb 2005
Fulgour wrote: They become experts, rolling out ugly bits of trivia, hammering away on dates and authors like masters. I enjoyed that statement, but maybe not in the way you intended.. Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Yes. Anyone who can read directions can pick up a tarot deck , consult the Little White Book (LWB) that comes with it, and probably get something out of their reading for themselves. It may be lacking in depth. insight , or application and/or all the finer points of meaning and nuance . Although , for some it can be very difficult if not impossible. These are the ones who say "My deck is broken." And for others who wish to build up a great mystique about themselves, the idea that anyone can pick up a deck and read in some way is infuriating. Many accomplished taroists insist they are not psychic at all . And others insist no one is psychic and it is all a sham. So take your pick. In one way, it is nice that the tarot is so accessable and democratic. Open to all . On the other hand , it is not so nice that if a person is psychically susceptable , they may trigger a psychic opening that the person is not prepared for . And this is not covered in the LWB or any label on the cards. So, open at your own risk and know thyself.

Phoenix Rising	15 Feb 2005
Everybody has intuition but they just don't realise it. but those ones that just read the cards like a book, probably make excellent readers, as they are normally logical and know all the facts.

tarotbear	16 Feb 2005
I will never say I am psychic ~ because I am not. My book is written from the standpoint that you don't have to be a psychic to understand how the cards work. You don't have to know how the cards work to do readings that are accurate. My book is a 'system' and I teach it to people who take my classes. Many people have learned to understand the cards from either taking my classes or buying my book. HOPEFULLY ~ The Joe and Josephine Bloggs of this world will have enough interest in what they learn to keep expanding their learning. Will reading cards 'make' you a psychic? No. Will they teach you a thing or two about using your intuition? Possibly. Can you learn Tarot from a strictly scientific basis? Of course you can ~ I did!

Eco74	16 Feb 2005
I'm totally with Fulgour on thisone. While I do believe that anyone has the ability to tune in to the cards and their meanings, I also believe that anyone has the ability to supress this channel and stick by book-meanings and carefully chosen theories only - pushing all others (including intuition) aside. The chosen meanings and keywords will be the only options, any new ideas or possibilities will be swatted down or ignored "until they go away", discussions will be of no avail since J.Bloggs will refuse to see any other point of view than his/her own since it is "the only possible way because this is a logical system and no mumbo-jumbo and if you don't do it right you might not do it at all". So, any J. Bloggs could learn to read the cards, but not all are able to allow themselves to tune in to them and see beyond the images.

Stregaverde	16 Feb 2005
Some of the most gifted readers that I've met have been very practical people, but were nonetheless very intuitive, whether they realized it or not. I haven't met a "good" reader yet who was rigid and simply factual, but that's just me. On the other side, I knew a very gifted psychic, a truly exceptional woman. She was amazingly accurate with her gifts (she could read from photos, from clothing, and from the person themselves), but when she read the Tarot, she was very often totally wrong or off-base. Go figure!

Kaylee Marie	16 Feb 2005
The tarot is all about archetypes and human experience. If you can read ancient mythology and relate it to your modern life, you can be a tarot reader. If you can view a work of art and feel emotionally stirred up by the images, you can be a tarot reader. If you can look at a dear friend and just "know" what he/she is thinking or feeling, you can be a tarot reader. There's a reason they call it READING, people. Reading tarot is just like making personal connections to literature and art. Like a book, play, movie, sculpture, painting, whatever, there is no correct interpretation in tarot; the smart, critical reader knows this. Yes, there is the traditional, commonly accepted interpretation, but each person who reads/views a book or a work of art will come away with something slightly (or radically) different. And that same person may make multiple interpretations of the same work at different times, depending on the circumstances. You don't need to be psychic for this to happen -- you merely need to be alive. In this highly literate society of ours, is it any wonder that more and more people are discovering the meaning in tarot? And don't forget that there is variability in human abilities and experience -- some people are more literate than others, so some will make deeper connections than others. Is the person who fails to intuitively connect with the tarot a bad person? I don't think so. At least they're trying, rather than closing their mind to the opportunity. The people who think that only "psychics" should work with tarot are the ones with the closed minds.

April	16 Feb 2005
It might be take a little more effort but it is absolutely possible to read Tarot without being psychic. My name is April, and I am NOT a psychic. I was frustrated for a few years because I just wasn't getting it, but when I decided to approach it from another angle I started doing fine. That's a long boring story, but the point is that it's not even just studying. I use everything I've learned from books, the internet, TV, etc. and everything I know about people, the world, God, etc. and put it into a reading. And that's why I get better and will continue to learn everyday. Some might disagree but I think being able to read people is just as important. And that ain't psychic. There's a book out that you might find of interest. I haven't read it and can't recommend but it takes an interesting approach. Heart of Tarot: An Intuitive Approach by Amber and Azrael Arynn K. It somehow uses Gestalt psychology to draw the answers out of the querent. I almost any approach is good if you like it and it works. Peace, April

MeeWah	16 Feb 2005
Dark Inquisitor wrote: ... Yes. Anyone who can read directions can pick up a tarot deck , consult the Little White Book (LWB) that comes with it, and probably get something out of their reading for themselves. It may be lacking in depth. insight , or application and/or all the finer points of meaning and nuance . Although , for some it can be very difficult if not impossible... One need not be "obviously" psychic, but everyone is to some degree. Everyone experiences "hunches" & "feelings" that they act on, even without conscious awareness. Tarot can be used & read from an intellectual or psychological approach. Many readers do so & successfully. Those who are not accustomed to consciously connecting with the inner realm of consciousness may have some initial difficulty, but access to what Tarot offers is open to *anyone* with an interest in making an effort to know the cards. All about stimuli & response. If one can respond to art, the written word, music, colours, dreams--to any experience whatsoever--one can seek to read the cards! The general images & symbols are universal; trigger an unconscious or involuntary response. The general images & symbols are universal; trigger an unconscious or involuntary response. Dark Inquisitor wrote: ...In one way, it is nice that the tarot is so accessable and democratic. Open to all . On the other hand , it is not so nice that if a person is psychically susceptable , they may trigger a psychic opening that the person is not prepared for . And this is not covered in the LWB or any label on the cards. So, open at your own risk and know thyself. Agree with the assessment & with the last, too. Any tool that gives access to the inner realm contains that risk (& includes meditation). I refuse to claim to be psychic. I see that as a natural faculty everyone possesses. To claim so is redundant as is claiming any of the other human functions with which we are so endowed.

Red Emma	16 Feb 2005
Fulgour wrote: A "J.Bloggs" type will energetically thwart whatever possibilities they may sense in the cards. They become experts, rolling out ugly bits of trivia, Should you dare express a heartfelt belief, they rise, trembling with excitiement at a chance to disprove what they see you have earned and truly cherish.:( "J.Bloggs" keep their decks in tidy rows, prices noted, but it's their sad fate to be owned by what they mock. Fulgour, you're making a whole lot of assumptions here that probably aren't true. I might even suggest there's a bit of stereotyping going on. Good old Red Emma is neither a Joe or Josie Blogg, but the cards do not speak to her through intuition. She sees the cards in the spread, checks in her various books (about half a dozen) until a notation clicks somewhere in her brain. She can then see how the whole reading falls together. Her books are not in a tidy row but scattered all over the house; when she wants to use a specific deck she has to hunt a bit to find it. She has very little idea how much she paid for any one deck. I do believe there are a whole lot of non-intuitive people who read tarot, but because of the aggressiveness of the intuitives on ATF, they pretty much keep their mouths shut. Which is a pity. Perhaps more than others, they need to be able to discuss aspects of the decks they love.

catti	16 Feb 2005
am i psychic or not? i dunno definatly have lots of dreams and deja vu experiences but was unable to put most of it to practical use...... everybody at some point learned the tarot, i also tried my hand at I ching and runes but they didnt work so well for me tarot and i clicked, worked just fine from day one, i read LWB and then moved on and i get good results iching on the other hand - too profound and poetic for me to use. very lovely sentiments though :-)

tmgrl2	16 Feb 2005
Good question. Don't have the answer...because there probably isn't ONE answer. Tarot found me and loved me, and so, I loved Tarot back and began studying it... I also began doing readings almost from the outset. First, online. Now, for live sitters. I think you will know for yourself whether you are on the right path....but in the meantime...practice, practice, practice.... People will come back for more. That's one thing I am finding out...and they are willing to PAY.... A year from now, I may read differently ... or better... or worse... I don't know this. I just know that every time I sit down with someone to do a reading, the event is something so special, that I know I will keep Tarot and reading with the Tarot in my life. It's one year ago this week that I began with the Tarot. My younger years were filled with other kinds of "intuitive" work and certainly my jobs have allowed me to fly by the seat of my knowledge AND my intuition. But Tarot is so... lovely. terri

ros	16 Feb 2005
There are ~ people who play the piano & pianists ~ people who paint pictures & artists ~people who read cards & psychics?... How do we want to use are creative abilities?

April	16 Feb 2005
ros wrote: There are ~ people who play the piano & pianists ~ people who paint pictures & artists ~people who read cards & psychics?... How do we want to use are creative abilities? Apples and oranges. Unless you mean that with enough practice a regular reader can develop into a psychic just like a regular piano player can become a pianist. Peace, April

ros	16 Feb 2005
Yes with practice we can become whomever we want to in our own minds. Others will always have their own interpretations of our gifts.

tmgrl2	17 Feb 2005
ros...I chuckled when I read your post....I play piano...studied it for 6 years....classical...from age 8 to 14... but I will never be a "musician" or "pianist." I just don't "have it." Same with art. I love to color things that have lines...but draw? paint? I just don't have it...I have tried. That's why I appreciate art and music and those who create them so much! I don't feel that way about Tarot. I don't know why. I hope that I always feel, that with Tarot, I am tapping into something that is more "natural" for me, that is a "talent" to some extent. I do have doubts, but when I read, especially for live sitters, all of that is dispelled. They come back for more. And, they pay for it. I really don't have an answer to this. Math was never "natural" for me and when I worked at it, I was placed in advanced math classes. I still HATED it...I found it unnatural. I admired those who could seem to "think math." My older brother used to do my algebra in his head, give me the answers and wonder why I needed to know the steps. I HAD TO WRITE THEM DOWN to turn in my assignments. It was a waste of time to him. Languages on the other hand, and verbal skills were always high on my list of "natural" abilities. I seemed to be able to pick up other languages easily. I tested out on the verbal SATs and skipped all the required college courses the first two years in "English." I think maybe one day we will understand more about all of this, now that we are looking at different kinds of intelligences. I would love to think that one day I will wake up and be able to SING! Dance! (Yup...really bad at that, too...so bad that a friend once took me aside when we were all out at a party, dancing...She said, "You know, with just a few pointers, you could move with the music and maybe learn to dance.") Haven't done anything except the Chicken Dance at weddings ever since. So...I'll take what I have and be grateful. Maybe in another lifetime? I think with Tarot, maybe this all applies, too. Some may study and study and practice and practice and still not "have it." I think perhaps one of the best indications of whether or not we do something well, is that people come back, and back again, for more... I'm the one everyone wants when they write a college entry essay or a paper... or anything...."Could you please just look this over and see if anything needs to be rewritten?" Maybe the verbal skills serve me when I read...certainly, when I see the cards in a spread the images flood me with words...and I begin speaking and it just flows..... terri

Fulgour	17 Feb 2005
Red Emma wrote: Fulgour, you're making a whole lot of assumptions here that probably aren't true. I might even suggest there's a bit of stereotyping going on. Assumptions about a fictitious "J.Bloggs" you mean? I'm glad you don't see yourself, and I don't either.:) I musta woke up on the wrong side of my soap box. Yes, we have no supercilious pedantophiliacs today!

Dark Inquisitor	17 Feb 2005
Red Emma wrote: I do believe there are a whole lot of non-intuitive people who read tarot, but because of the aggressiveness of the intuitives on ATF, they pretty much keep their mouths shut. Which is a pity. I think this too Emma . It's almost like there is an esoteric competition going on. And it's not much fun. Sometimes the good old LWB definition is the one that fits !! Thinking decades back, it seems tarot was more fun , less competitive, and more open. But that may just be the colors of faded imagination.

MercyMe	17 Feb 2005
Maybe Tarot appeals to certain types of people and those are the people who actively want to learn about it. Others dabble, and that's not a bad thing at all. I dabble in various things and I've learned a lot from dabbling. I think because of the vastness available both in decks, types of readings, interpretations, meanings, and so forth, tarot today will appeal to a broader range of people. I don't think a purely methodical reading is any less valuable than an entirely intuitive reading. They're just different. To each their own, once again. ~Mercy

Red Emma	17 Feb 2005
Dark Inquisitor wrote: I think this too Emma . It's almost like there is an esoteric competition going on. And it's not much fun. Sometimes the good old LWB definition is the one that fits !! Thinking decades back, it seems tarot was more fun , less competitive, and more open. But that may just be the colors of faded imagination. Thanks, Inquisitor, and others: This is one of my favorite rants, and I've felt that I was preaching to stones in the wilderness. But, being an natural-born rebel, I just keep on preaching. I'm glad some other non-intuitives have finally taken up the -- whatever one takes up to give a voice to everyone in the place.

TemperanceAngel	17 Feb 2005
Agressive intuitives?? I must have missed that one.... I know Tarot readers whom read only the cards and they are brilliant...but still I believe there must be a slight bit of intuition there, if not intuition, perhaps a hunch.... Psychics can read cards, in fact the two work very well together!

Junia	18 Feb 2005
What about if you tried years ago and just didn't have the right deck? Please don't laugh you guys; but the second deck I ever bought was the standard RW (with all of those scary swords being jabbed into blindfolded people) 1980's and the accompanying book. I tossed them both. I guess that life was so scary--I couldn't bear it in a card. Then I found two lovely decks (which are based on RW) with imagery so wonderful that I can't put them down for studying every nuance in detail. I've said it before--I didn't inherit the psychic gift; but maybe the psychotic family gene will pay off after all. Here's wishing everyone The Ten of Cups in their reading. Junia

The joe bloggs + the local store thread was originally posted on 15 Feb 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.