Reader as Seeker

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

contrascarpe	07 Feb 2005
My apologies if this has been discussed before, but I cannot recall if it has. I saw a post here today which made me rethink this topic. The topic being - most of us are seasoned readers - either online, or in person, or in some cases professionally. I began to contemplate my behavior when I receive a reading. The post in question, which I will not point out because except for the one comment which bothered me, was very intelligent and thought out, and by a member who I respect, revolved around deck usage. The post pointed out a deck who this person did not like and would explained that if they were to visit a reader who used this deck, they would leave the reading. My initial reaction was one of bother. Now that I read professionally, I feel that if someone were to dismiss me because of my deck choice, I would have a problem with that. Tell me I am a bad reader, and I can handle that. But to walk out based on deck selection? I guess that is a product of the number of decks I own, hehehe. In fact, when I read at the bookshop, I use two decks primarily (I like to spread out the reading over multiple decks) but always carry at least a half dozen more just in case. In fact, my two main reading decks come with a disclaimer question ...... I primarily use the Robin Wood and I ask the seeker whether they are offended by nude images. Then I use the Baroque Bohemian Cats (especially if the readings are intense - I like the images and it tends to relax the Seeker) but I ask if they are afraid of cats. So, that being said, I ask you - what are our responsibilities as seasoned vets of the Tarot wars when we seek guidance from others? Do we own up upfront that we know what is happening? Or do we just back off and see the ilk of the reader and determine whether they are showboating or legitimate? I have only paid for two readings myself in my entire life. The first was several years ago. Even though I was into Tarot most of my life, in retrospect I was not as knowledgable as I feel I am today (thanks mostly to these boards and the people on it). I went in with an attitude and basically told the guy that I knew Tarot and he couldn't pull one over me. Looking back I KNOW I must have turned this guy off as I probably would be myself now. I had a horrible reading and he was way offbase. I feel he was trying to get rid of me. My second reading was last year and I treated the experience as a field trip. I was about to read professionally for the first time and wanted to see how others handled it. I have to say I was more openminded and, so that the reader didn't think I was devious, told her halfway through that I was a reader and that I wasn't there to judge her, but to learn. She told me she felt that and was very helpful to me, giving me tons of advice. It also helped that she was spot on in my reading (told me that not only would Gardener and I get together, but that we would have a baby .... a girl, this last part still remains to be seen). Anyway, I was wondering how others feel about all this. I find it different trading readings online. Many times we are asking questions which are important to us, but for the most part the exchanges here are educational. How do you act when (if) you have a serious reading live from a stranger? Dan

huredriel	07 Feb 2005
Well I can't comment as for being a *reader* myself cos I've only just started but I have had several paid readings. This is a person I got to know through my friends (actually she is my mate's ex-wife) and everyone I know trusts her readings. She has been pretty spot on for specifics with me, as for the future, well I'm still waiting on that. The atmosphere is one of trust, where I feel comfortable and she is easy to talk to, so I would think that that is pretty important. If I wasn't as sure of the person I don't think I would tell them I was learning or read Tarot and wait to see what they would say first and see how encouraging and open they were. After all, they may come up with something I disagreed with, but then we can all look at the same cards and come up with different thoughts can't we? Just my ramblings, don't know if they will be of use to you. BTW my reader is the one who encouraged me to learn Tarot :) x Huredriel

Rosanne	07 Feb 2005
Hi contrascrape, Best wishes for your upcoming joy. I have side stepped that issue by having several packs of cards that I let the Querent choose from.They are different from my personal reading decks.They are RW based in the main. I have thought about the person who would leave because of the readers choice of cards; I think I would be offended by that. On the other hand I don't have any cards that would cause major offence. I did see a reader at a upbeat market that used a Voodoo deck, and I was surprised and I probally would not want a reading from that, but it was not a major reaction. In my few paid for quests I have been dissapointed with the approach not the readings, nor the cards. I might add it has been interesting to see what people choose- it has been mainly large cards- Like the Rohrig and Inner child and large format RW majors. It seems they think the larger the better for getting answers(LOL). They have not picked a historical deck much either. I have been mulling over a big decision lately, well since joining this forum, as to whether to leave reading and only use Tarot for myself as there seems to be so much more I can learn. I don't like the feelings of distance over the wires, so to speak, in having readings from others via the net. I feel exhausted after attempting readings in return. Regards Rosanne

contrascarpe	07 Feb 2005
huredriel - It sounds like you and I are on the same page. I plan on getting another reading soon, now that I am almost a year into my "comfort zone". My approach is not typical when I read. I do not choose a set spread (typically) and often the cards tell me different things. I am hoping I can be openminded when I get my reading, and not kibitz. After all, different readers can see different things. Dan

contrascarpe	07 Feb 2005
Rosanne - You bring up some interesting points. First, I find it intriguing that people are picking the larger decks. My personal experience is that the average person is turned off having to shuffle these decks. However, I tend to gravitate toward them for my own sake. I truly love the Rohrig. Maybe I should bring it out for my next round of readings (my dear Gardener trimmed the edges off one of my copies in order to get rid of the annoying keywords). I was also interested in your comments about cyber readings. Truthfully, when I began I was suspect, but as I go on, I find a strong, positive energy reading for the folks on this board, especially when I do my Reflecting Pools readings. Everytime I do a reading I go through the same routine - selfdoubt, apologetic for maybe not being accurate but, except for one reading here (which I now believe was an instance where the seeker was blocking the truth), I have received positive feedback. Not sure if that makes me a gifted reader or a pathetic individual who everyone needs to console, but considering my hit rate on live readings, I am hoping it is the former. Dan

augursWell	07 Feb 2005
I don't read professionally or for others, haven't crossed that bridge yet, but I am very in touch with my intuition. If that intuition told me as a querent that I could not "trust" or accept a Tarot reader that used a particular deck then I would trust that intuition, as I have done in many other situations in life, and decide against a reading. Deck choice would not usually be high on my list though. But I would always try and be polite about it. :) On the other hand I think blanket "will not do" statements up front are not usually life affirming. Most querents, however, are likely not that in touch with their intuition so it would likely be a purely social or marketing thing, the choice of deck. You don't want to haul out a highly sexual deck with nudity at the local county fair. It seems to me that giving the querent some choice of deck would be a good way to deal with this.

tarotbear	07 Feb 2005
I think that if a querent is frightened or disgusted or revolted by the images they see, it will affect them badly. Why not just offer a querent a choice of decks instead of doing everyone's reading with your favorite deck - 'The Headless, Mutilated Dead Babies Tarot' ? It's a killer! LOL! If there are images that make a person upset, such as a deck with erotic themes, or something like the Thoth deck that they may see as sinister, it may just scare them away from the table. Conversrely, decks that are 'too cute for words', such as the Hello, Kitty tarot will give them the impression that you are not serious. We tend to use decks that speak to 'us', but may not speak to 'them.'

Skydancer	07 Feb 2005
To Dan ~ "Reflecting Pool" readings? Could you elaborate please? Or, are they posted in the reading section? (I'm still finding my way around in here.) Thanks ~

Kath	07 Feb 2005
I guess I must have missed that thread. I have not paid a professional tarot reader, but have had others read for me, both in person and via the internet. In all cases the person knew I read tarot cards. I don’t think the deck choice of the reader would be enough to make me leave a reading. If I felt uncomfortable or uneasy with the person, or if their behaviour was questionable or offensive then I’d probably leave. If s/he just gave a lousy reading I wouldn’t walk out half way through. We all have our bad days. I would probably tell a reader that I read tarot cards. It’s only fair. I believe that you only get out of a reading what you put into it. The more open you are, the more you will get from the cards. Why shouldn’t the reader know that I know about tarot? If they feel insecure or suspicious, that’s their issue, not mine. They should be questioning themselves why they would feel threatened by a fellow tarot reader.

tarotbear	08 Feb 2005
Kath wrote: I would probably tell a reader that I read tarot cards. It’s only fair. I believe that you only get out of a reading what you put into it. The more open you are, the more you will get from the cards. Why shouldn’t the reader know that I know about tarot? If they feel insecure or suspicious, that’s their issue, not mine. They should be questioning themselves why they would feel threatened by a fellow tarot reader. I NEVER tell the other reader that I read Tarot cards! I do not do this because I am setting myself up as the 'Tarot Nazi', or because I want to catch their mistakes, etc. I figure 'just let them do their thing' without my making them think otherwise. If you were Leonard Bernstein and went to watch Seiji Ozowa conduct, would you tell him before the perfomance?

contrascarpe	08 Feb 2005
augursWell wrote: I don't read professionally or for others, haven't crossed that bridge yet, but I am very in touch with my intuition. If that intuition told me as a querent that I could not "trust" or accept a Tarot reader that used a particular deck then I would trust that intuition, as I have done in many other situations in life, and decide against a reading. Deck choice would not usually be high on my list though. But I would always try and be polite about it. :) On the other hand I think blanket "will not do" statements up front are not usually life affirming. Most querents, however, are likely not that in touch with their intuition so it would likely be a purely social or marketing thing, the choice of deck. You don't want to haul out a highly sexual deck with nudity at the local county fair. It seems to me that giving the querent some choice of deck would be a good way to deal with this. Nice points, augursWell. Deck choice is only one of the points of my initial post, but definitely a key one. Basically I was trying to get a feel as to how much responsibility, or tolerance, we have as experienced "taroters". Do we lord over those reading for us, especially if we see them as inferior to what we know? Or do we suck it up and just experience the experience? As I mature as a reader, I am hoping to opt for the latter. Dan

contrascarpe	08 Feb 2005
tarotbear wrote: I think that if a querent is frightened or disgusted or revolted by the images they see, it will affect them badly. Why not just offer a querent a choice of decks instead of doing everyone's reading with your favorite deck - 'The Headless, Mutilated Dead Babies Tarot' ? It's a killer! LOL! If there are images that make a person upset, such as a deck with erotic themes, or something like the Thoth deck that they may see as sinister, it may just scare them away from the table. Conversrely, decks that are 'too cute for words', such as the Hello, Kitty tarot will give them the impression that you are not serious. We tend to use decks that speak to 'us', but may not speak to 'them.' OK, I must admit I would probably walk away from the Headless, Mutilated Dead Babies Tarot myself. Somehow I figure anyone using that deck is probably wearing a '70s era Hockey Mask when reading, so that would be my first clue to run. And while I agree that the Hello Kitty deck may not be MY first choice, who am I to judge that I would not get a good reading from it, especially if the reader feels comfortable with it. This speaks to the heart of my post - as experienced, and open-minded, tarot people, don't we owe it to a reader to give them a chance to use the method which speaks to them? Some read with an average deck of playing cards, while others read palms, use runes, etc. Dan

contrascarpe	08 Feb 2005
Skydancer wrote: To Dan ~ "Reflecting Pool" readings? Could you elaborate please? Or, are they posted in the reading section? (I'm still finding my way around in here.) Thanks ~ Skydancer - The Reflecting Pools spread is one I developed with Gardener (before we really got together, and long before we married). Here is the explanation: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=26767 Also, if you do a search of Reflecting Pools under Reading Exchange, you will find numerous examples of the reading itself done by me and by a few other brave AT members. Dan

augursWell	08 Feb 2005
contrascarpe wrote: Nice points, augursWell. Deck choice is only one of the points of my initial post, but definitely a key one. Basically I was trying to get a feel as to how much responsibility, or tolerance, we have as experienced "taroters". Do we lord over those reading for us, especially if we see them as inferior to what we know? Or do we suck it up and just experience the experience? As I mature as a reader, I am hoping to opt for the latter. Dan Okay, walking away from a reader based on their choice of deck was just an example. How about looking at it this way, what if we were all athletes and we are all here to discuss a particular sport. If we got together there would be *competition* going on. Since the use of Tarot is not usually for competition, as in sports, then I put it to you that Tarot is mainly understanding? My point isn't to debate the true nature of Tarot but to say that if a Tarot Reader becomes a querent for another Tarot Reader then both can benefit from that simply because it is Tarot and not something else. It may just be a matter of personality for both the Reader and Querent, how they would approach such a reading. If I went to another Reader for a reading than it would likely be because I really needed a "second opinion" as it were or an impartial reading. In that case I would likely just let the Reader do their thing. If I wanted to understand their technique and methods than I would likely tell them that I was a Tarot reader also, just so I wouldn't blind-side them. Likely then they would be open to discuss variations on their reading based on my own knowledge of Tarot. If they insisted on using the 'The Headless, Mutilated Dead Babies Tarot' even after all of the above and insisted the reading indicated imminent and painful death then I too would make sure there was no hockey mask equipped stranger lurking about and then make my way slowly but deliberately towards the door. :)

Cerulean	08 Feb 2005
of your choice of decks and how you asked about choices...that's a good clue that you are a considerate reader... Contrascarpe says... I primarily use the Robin Wood and I ask the seeker whether they are offended by nude images. Then I use the Baroque Bohemian Cats (especially if the readings are intense - I like the images and it tends to relax the Seeker) but I ask if they are afraid of cats. You also said you carry a bunch of other decks just in case. I like that! Now to your question, of if we are mature tarot readers, do we let the reader know? I remember four years ago I would always reply about knowing tarot, "a little." The funny thing is I am thinking of back four years ago when my main reading experiences for self or others with was with Italian historical decks or Thoth or the Hallowquest Arthurian. I did few readings for friends with the Ukiyoe or Thoth and wasn't certain why the Rider Waite Smith decks were preferred. The Hallowquest or Ukiyoe have landscape and plant/animal motifs on their pip designs, but lack people. I used a form of numerology to read with pips. The reader was a great conversationalist, kindly, but I was puzzled by the Aquarian deck, as I didn't use significators like she did--in the Thoth, my queen is the Queen of Cups--in the Rider-Waite-Smith style of reading, I am a Queen of Swords. I realize now she didn't need a tarot deck to get someone to chat about their goals and what she suggested. I think I was mostly puzzled by what she said, scribbled some notes as a reminder, but didn't talk about tarot history or my hobby collection. I didn't learn anything new about myself, but I did find the RWS equivalent interesting enough to invest in a Spiral Tarot. The faces in the Aquarian at the time kind of looked ghastly to me, but I'm now used to different art styles. I haven't bought a reading for a long time...I have paid for tarot classes where the teacher is talking about something significantly different with tarot relations..such as Lon Duquette's Crowley Tarot discussion or Mary Greer's Tarot and Emotions style of lectures...if someone has a long-cherished tarot they worked a lot with or have designed, and I wanted to learn the deck, then I would pay...and then I would be able to truthfully say that I only know a little about their tool and would enjoy learning!

The Reader as Seeker thread was originally posted on 07 Feb 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.