Which tarot cards suggest the client is vegetarian or carnivorous?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 05 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

jumptothemoonyea	05 Feb 2005
Could tarot describe diet issues? As food is very important part of us, how tarot cards would reflect the vegetarian or carnivorous concerns if such questions would be asked? :)

Moongold	05 Feb 2005
God lord, jump.... Why on earth would you want to know. Is this a joke :D ? Well, the Knight of Swords looks as though he is a type. So does the Page come to think of that. The Page of Cups obviously likes seafood and IV Cups is actually a juice freak. V Cups may be a practising alcoholic suffering the morning after whilst IX Cups is a wine connoisseur. I offer this because people who drink a lot often don't eat much - they live on alcohol. VIII Swords looks as though she is about to be sacrificed and eaten. Does this count in terms of your query? Now III Empress - she's gotta be vegetarian! And the Fool as well. He probably has lots of flowers in his salads, I suspect I Magician is vegetarian as well. He looks hippy enough. But perhaps we shouldn't make superficial judgements! The Ace of Cups indicates aesthetism. Not much at all - the occasional rice wafer in fact. Is that enough to start with? Now ............. why are you doing this. Fess up! It is not fair to tease us like this. You'll get banished to the ethics thread :)

Fulgour	05 Feb 2005
One quick question: Are these naked vegetables? :)

DollieAnna	05 Feb 2005
pull a card for me and I wil tell you which I am! lol

DollieAnna	05 Feb 2005
I think this is a valid question, jttmy.

Fulgour	05 Feb 2005
The Emperor would definitely need lots of bulk fibre, and he could get it from The Hierophant's stable.:)

Rosanne	05 Feb 2005
In my beloved Estensi Tarot all the pentacles look Iron deficient, so they are not meat eaters I think- except the 10 Pentacles gives an example of beef that should not be eaten.(very anorexic steer)Le Fou looks like a bread and cheese man plus anything that moves, to be frank. Death has'nt eaten for a while. Several Wands are up trees looking for fruit in the wrong season. The 9 Swords has'nt got a head so she would show up for a "Should I diet? " question. I have never ever had a diet or food question asked, and I have had a lot of lifestyle questions tho.Like Moongold asked...Why? Fulgour is'nt it Winter in your neck of the woods? Naked vegetables are salads here. Regards Rosanne.

similia	05 Feb 2005
The thoth queen of wands would have to be a fruitarian! (check it out, she's sitting on a pineapple throne). In fact she would have to be the Queen of Fruitaria. Your other option of course is the Housewives tarot. I think it had a couple cards with food picture. :D

souljourney	05 Feb 2005
Ok jump... I'll try to defend you here. I'm a chiropractor and I do all sorts of other natural healing modalities also, so I can actually see where diet is important to health. I guess one could pose a question about what foods or style of eating (diet I guess) would be beneficial. Or something like "is their current diet contributing to a health problem?" It would actually be pretty cool to figure some of this stuff out actually. The Chinese, in Traditional Chinese Medicine, use elements and their relation to certain foods as "prescriptions"...and so does Aryvedic medicine. Problem is the correlations would be harder to make... Tarot has 4 elements and the Chinese 5 and the Indians 3. I admit it does give me something to think about. Sounds like it's time to try this with some of my friends....

similia	05 Feb 2005
souljourney wrote: The Chinese, in Traditional Chinese Medicine, use elements and their relation to certain foods as "prescriptions"...and so does Aryvedic medicine. Problem is the correlations would be harder to make... Tarot has 4 elements and the Chinese 5 and the Indians 3. Tried to work it out, but it came out lame. Chinese 5 elements are Wood, Fire, Earth, Water and Metal. Doesn't really line up with tarot at all, even if you think of the majors as an element. You could think of: Swords = Wood (due to quality of movement, and association of Liver with Wind) Wands = Fire Cups = Water Coins = Earth Majors = Metal (no real reason, its just the only one left!) Ayurveda you could line up numerically with the minor arcana via qabalah. Ace, 6 9 & 10 are omniverous (pitta), 2, 4 & 7 are carnivores (vata), 3, 5 & 8 are vegetarians (kapha). Of course then we are in the unfortunate position of considering the ineffable name of god as a sacred cookbook. (I prefer Jamie Oliver to scripture really. There's more flexibility, and I really like bacon }) ) Jumptothemoonyea.. is now my favorite smart-a#*e poster! :D

Moongold	05 Feb 2005
Similia wrote: Jumptothemoonyea.. is now my favorite smart-a#*e poster! :D Aha.......who had a flash about this one? (Refer Flash Thread) The Piscean Moons and Suns obviously just had a feeling that this is a slightly murky question but might not have put it as delicately as you, similia :) What are your Sun and Moon signs? NB: This is not intended to be off topic but to ascertain the qualifications of said poster to make judgements about subject and potential for smart - a#*e status. The latter is metaphoric only and not intended to diminish vegetarians or carnivoreans in any way. I am getting confused now. An iron deficiency no doubt, probably one revealed by the appearance of Queen Swords in any throw concerning the question.

Rusty Neon	05 Feb 2005
The Strength/Force card could represent the struggle of vegetarianism over carnivorism.

jumptothemoonyea	05 Feb 2005
Fulgor just give me a minute I'll tell you why I like my vegetables naked... First why I asked. Quote: Why on earth would you want to know. Is this a joke ? Now ............. why are you doing this. Fess up! It is not fair to tease us like this. Quote: I have never ever had a diet or food question asked, Like Moongold asked...Why? well, I asked because my real question is "Can Enlightenment be reached while being carnivorous or only by being a vegetarian?" And I want this be interpreted in our language here - Tarot. And to answer this we need to know which cards represent food and how. And I like your answers a lot - they actually make a lot of sense. If you think that this is not valid tarot question, I'll ask Solandia to remove it :( Because, we are what we eat (who said it?), it seems logical to look for answers to all the querrant's questions in the food realm. Right? :)

Moongold	05 Feb 2005
jumptothemoonyea wrote: Fulgor just give me a minute I'll tell you why I like my vegetables naked... First why I asked.well, I asked because my real question is "Can Enlightenment be reached while being carnivorous or only by being a vegetarian?" And I want this be interpreted in our language here - Tarot. And to answer this we need to know which cards represent food and how. And I like your answers a lot - they actually make a lot of sense. If you think that this is not valid tarot question, I'll ask Solandia to remove it :( Because, we are what we eat (who said it?), it seems logical to look for answers to all the querrant's questions in the food realm. Right? :) Ah.... It may have helped if you had given us the whole question. :) The original question was a little ambiguous Quote: Which cards suggest the querent is vegetarian or carnivorous? Could tarot describe diet issues? As food is very important part of us, how tarot cards would reflect the vegetarian or carnivorous concerns if such questions would be asked? I would simply ask the question and see what cards came up. By putting the issue in the way that you have you are almost second-guessing the answer! We should not put the cart of hay before the horse, so to speak, although horses are vegetarian. Hmmmm.. do you get my point though? RustyNeon's comment on VIII Strength (RWS) is very appropriate then. Perhaps the Moon would also be appropriate. The dogs are baying at the Moon because the only food around is a crayfish? That is, carnivorousness leads to delusion? Ummmm.......?

Rusty Neon	05 Feb 2005
Moongold wrote: RustyNeon's comment on VIII Strength (RWS) is very appropriate then. My comment applied equally to the XI Strength/Force card too. :) There's still a woman and a large beast therein.

DollieAnna	05 Feb 2005
I originally said that this was a valid question. and yes, I am an Enlightened one.

Moongold	05 Feb 2005
DollieAnna wrote: I originally said that this was a valid question. and yes, I am an Enlightened one. Are you Vegetarian or Carnivorean?

DollieAnna	05 Feb 2005
by saying that I am Enlightened, one should be able to figure it out. ;) ;) Might this help, or throw you off? Leo/Leo Aries Cancer Gemini Virgo

Rosanne	05 Feb 2005
Well now that makes sense JTTMY. I have often wondered about that particular view. My sister is a strict vegetarian and she says Meat weighs one down spiritually. The rest of my family believe God gave us dominion over things for food, so anything is game(Hoho)My Daughter maintains(agnostic) that you should not eat animal protein of any sort because it can make you agressive and is agressive in aquiring it(The meat). So I have never thought to ask Tarot of the merits of being Vegetarian. A great percentage of the world is by choice and necessity non meat eating. So I will consider how to approach this question about 'food and enlightenment'. Please take my facetious comments with a light heart, I knew not where you 'walked' with this. Rosanne

DollieAnna	05 Feb 2005
I am a Vegan. Vegetarian by choice, and unfortunately Lactose intolerant.

DollieAnna	05 Feb 2005
jumptothemoonyea wrote: First why I asked.well, I asked because my real question is "Can Enlightenment be reached while being carnivorous or only by being a vegetarian?" :) My question would be (NOT hijack the thread from JTTMY, this is a great thread) Can Enlightenment ever be reached?"

jumptothemoonyea	05 Feb 2005
Moongold wrote: I would simply ask the question and see what cards came up. I did. Right before I posted the question. I asked what they think about carnivorous diet. And 3 cards were in this order: The Hanged Man, Death, Prince of Disks (in Thoth Prince of Disks is a naked (do not tell Fulgor) young man riding big angry Bull!) A little too straightforward answer, do you think? It seems very interesting to explore how tarot represent food in a big and small pictures. Adding this dimension to the reading, can open some unexpected insights, hah? :)

Moongold	05 Feb 2005
DollieAnna wrote: My question would be (NOT hijack the thread from JTTMY, this is a great thread) Can Enlightenment ever be reached?" Well, I think it is a fun thread too. Hope you are taking into account our good intentions, JTTMY. I saw the Dalai Lama once and his whole lecture was questions and jokes Buddhists laugh a lot and they seem to me to be more committed philosophically to enlightenment than the rest of us. Hummm.... I think they are vegetarian too.

DollieAnna	05 Feb 2005
well, now I am hungry. going to eat some naked veggies.

similia	05 Feb 2005
jumptothemoonyea wrote: First why I asked.well, I asked because my real question is "Can Enlightenment be reached while being carnivorous or only by being a vegetarian?" And I want this be interpreted in our language here - Tarot. And to answer this we need to know which cards represent food and how. In this case I'd go for a spread design, rather than specific tarot cards. Perhaps a fork in the road, with one road representing a vegetarian existence, the other carnivorous. You can then interpret the cards as to which will lead to greater spiritual evolution. (he says, still not convinced this is a serious thread...;) )

Rusty Neon	05 Feb 2005
Moongold wrote: Buddhists laugh a lot and they seem to me to be more committed philosophically to enlightenment than the rest of us. Hummm.... I think they are vegetarian too. I was at a Tibetan fundraising bazaar and they served meat-filled momos (Tibetan dumplings). They also served meat at Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreats, if I recall correctly.

Moongold	05 Feb 2005
jumptothemoonyea wrote: I did. Right before I posted the question. I asked what they think about carnivorous diet. And 3 cards were in this order: The Hanged Man, Death, Prince of Disks (in Thoth Prince of Disks is a naked (do not tell Fulgor) young man riding big angry Bull!) A little too straightforward answer, do you think? It seems very interesting to explore how tarot represent food in a big and small pictures. Adding this dimension to the reading, can open some unexpected insights, hah? :) Hehehe .... Why not ask another deck? I have the Buddha Tarot and just asked it the same question? Guess what came up: III Yasodhar - The Future Empress IX The Old Man & The Saddhu - The Hermit The Descent from Tusita Heaven - The Fool Hahahaha - How typically Buddhist. The Tarot leave us to answer our own questions. To look to ourselves rather than to others :D.

souljourney	05 Feb 2005
Ahhhh so the question really is about enlightenment and what will help one to attain it. Ok, so not really a health-type question at all. But gotta admit that could be an interesting idea too. I have heard the theories of eating any animal does lessen our spiritual enlightenment from a couple sources and that should eat live plants for the enzymes (so a raw food diet) which increases our own life force. Now I can also tell you I've heard information just the opposite. It makes me wonder than... it's probably an individual choice and depends on that person's experiences, karma, etc. as to what is right for them. And the cards can help with figuring it out...

jumptothemoonyea	05 Feb 2005
souljourney - it is a health question. these are all nested in each other and interconnected: tarot-->food-->health-->enlightenment-->? or in different order? :)

souljourney	05 Feb 2005
Jump... I thought about this some more after I posted. You are right, all of that (and more) is interconnected. I guess what I meant was the basic question, or the core of it was more about enlightenment then health just for health's sake. I think to realize food, the environment, and everything we do is related to enlightenment or spiritual growth, means you've attained a certain level of enlightenment already. I was thinking I have a book someplace that is called something like "Eating with the Seasons". It talks about eating what nature provides during that time of year mainly. But... maybe some people in general need more grains or more fruits etc...so corresponding the foods of a particular season with suits of the tarot could be relatively easy. And I might add...this particular book, while mentioning meat, only did so in a very limited way as I recall. And I think even gave vegetarian options. I'll try to find the exact title if you are interested. Anymore thoughts?

Moongold	05 Feb 2005
JTTMY ~ Seriously, I'd like to know how you understand *enlightenment*. Do you see it as a state of self-mastery. Or is is it *bliss* in the sense of detachment and subjugation of ego? Or would you see it as being able to live completely in the present? All of these definitions have connections of course. It seems important to understand that so that we have some sense of where you are going. There are spiritual reasons for not eating meat and thes may well be a part of an overall commitment to enlightenment, whatever that means to you. Many thanks ~ Moongold

RedMaple	05 Feb 2005
Well, I don't know about you all, but I have some very pointy teeth that are obviously meant for eating meat. And I do. :) I'm assuming that hunter-gatherer societies had just as many enlightened souls as those in agrarian ones.

jumptothemoonyea	06 Feb 2005
Moongold wrote: Seriously, I'd like to know how you understand *enlightenment*. Ohhh, Moongold. I was about to fall asleep, checking the forum last time before going to bed, when I saw your question. It suddenly wiped my relaxed state out and made me think very hard. Even in a day time I would be too shy to answer this question, right now I can just formulate it this way: When my true naked Self transcends all the forms within and without... comment: transcends forms, not eliminate them, they will become secondary sleep now ...to dream about naked tarot :)

Kit	06 Feb 2005
Ahhh...but one question none of you have asked is which cards suggest the omnivorous! For who can live off meat alone?

Moongold	06 Feb 2005
jumptothemoonyea wrote: When my true naked Self transcends all the forms within and without... comment: transcends forms, not eliminate them, they will become secondary sleep now ...to dream about naked tarot :) Gulp! Obviously a state of the mind brought about by enlightenment. I am struggling here. Once I learned TM but I couldn't transcend enough to leave the ground and I think my fellow TM'ers were sort of hopping. Perhaps it is to late for me but I don't think this is possible for those of us on certain rungs of the evolutionarry chain :(.

DollieAnna	06 Feb 2005
RedMaple wrote: Well, I don't know about you all, but I have some very pointy teeth that are obviously meant for eating meat. And I do. :) I'm assuming that hunter-gatherer societies had just as many enlightened souls as those in agrarian ones. Yes, but If I remember correctly, (I'd have to go look this up) our digestive systems are not "set up for meat" but rather grains, legumes, fruit and veggies. And back in the day their utensils were primitive. Perhaps thats wht we have the "pointies" As for Buddhists, different sects believe diffrent things. I know one who eats meat (a man) and one who doesn't (a woman).

DollieAnna	06 Feb 2005
I guess we have adapted: taken from about.com Finally, a note about differences in digestive anatomy and physiology among animals. The digestive systems of humans, dogs, mice, horses, kangaroos and great white sharks are, to a first approximation, virtually identical. If you look more carefully however, it becomes apparent that each of these species has evolved certain digestive specializations that have allowed it to adapt to a particular diet. These differences become particularly apparent when you compare a carnivore like a dog with a herbivore like a goat or a horse. Goats and horses evolved from ancestors that subsisted on plants and adapted parts of their digestive tracts into massive fermentation vats which enabled them efficiently utilize cellulose, the major carbohydrate of plants. In contrast, dogs evolved from animals that lived on the carcasses of other animals, and have digestive systems that reflect this history - extremely small fermentation vats and essentially no ability to utilize cellulose. Bridging the gap between carnivores and herbivores are omnivores like humans and pigs, whose digestive tracts attest to a historical diet that included both plants and animals. Adaptation: Strength Any 9: ephiphany Hanged Man: waiting to hear from my higher self on which to choose AM I A NUT OR MAKING ANY SENSE?

Moongold	06 Feb 2005
You make lots of sense. Thanks DollieAnna.

Grizabella	06 Feb 2005
I haven't read all the posts yet, so someone might have already thought of this, but I'd associate the suits as Pentacles/Cups being vegetarian and Wands/Swords as carnivorous. Swords to kill the animal and Wands to cook it----Pentacles as earth to grow vegetables and Cups to hold juices. Edited to add: It also makes sense to use the suits that way because it takes a passion of sorts to be able to kill a warm-blooded creature (wands) and a detachment from sentiment (swords) about the act as well. Cups indicate more of an emotionally sensitive nature and Pentacles indicate an earthy, more hippy (if you will) philosophy for life. In a reading, more of the Wands/Swords in a reading would indicate carnivorous and more Cups/Pents would indicate vegetarianism. If there were only one of one suit and one of another suit, then the stronger card of the suit would be the answer------for instance, if there were a 2 Cups and a Knight Swords, the Knight of Swords would be the answer because it carries more weight than the 2 Cups. Make sense anyone?

Moongold	06 Feb 2005
Hi Lyric ~ I see what you are saying and how you could make those associations. But Red Maple's point has relevance here also. Even hippies and people with sensitivity and the qualities of developed souls, eat meat :). You may have some fun reading through the earlier posts. I think the question ended up being about enlightenment.

jumptothemoonyea	06 Feb 2005
Lyric wrote: I'd associate the suits as Pentacles/Cups being vegetarian and Wands/Swords as carnivorous. Lyric, I like your association. Kill with a sword and fry with the wands. And Pentacles with Cups are Earth's fruits and fluids. Moongold, enlightenment was a hidden, underlying theme, it is too abstract and thin to build upon. It is always there. Food symbolism communicated by Tarot language was chosen for this discussion. All different ways food can be represented in tarot, all the small details discovered, will hopefully bring us to a higher, bigger, more naked picture (Fulgor, I am trying) if you can share any thoughts on how food can be seen via tarot, it would be greatly appreciated :)

Kissa	06 Feb 2005
jumptothemoonyea wrote: "Can Enlightenment be reached while being carnivorous or only by being a vegetarian?" Enlightment can be reached by doing what feels RIGHT for you. If it means eating no meat, do it. If it means running naked on a football stadium, do it. Just remember to harm no-one he he... If you are trying to do a reading about Vegetarism vs Carnivorism why not ask the pros and cons of both and interpret the cards you get? I don't think there are cards that always *mean* something, I don't think the Tarot is fixed like that. Do the reading, watch the cards, go with the flow, even say stupid things if they sound true to you. Kissa

Moongold	06 Feb 2005
jumptothemoonyea wrote: Moongold, enlightenment was a hidden, underlying theme, it is too abstract and thin to build upon. It is always there. Sure :). I hark back to an earlier comment that I would draw the cards and intepret them in terms of the question than define symbols beforehand but that is simply a matter of preference. Today the Magician was my daily card. The image holds some food utensils and there are many flowers. No actual food though. I could read alot about food into this, depending on the question. It's a powerful image. Good luck JTTMY and bon appetite :)

jumptothemoonyea	06 Feb 2005
Thank you Kissa and Moongold for your comments. I did not do a real reading yet using the tarot food interpretations, because don't have enough information yet. This is an example how a reading could be done with food in mind: let's say a client asks : Why do I have lack of energy and what can I do? you make 3 card spread and the cards are: 7 of swords, 10 of Wands, 2 of pentacles. And you as a reader say: Time has come to cut down on fried meat and spaghetti, and have 2 apples a day... or if client asks: When will I meet true love? and the 3 cards: Magician, Page of Cups, 2 of wands. Applying our food method, you read: You will meet him at the International food festival, he will propose in a fish restaurant, while drinking cocktail and sharing delicious shish kebab...

Kath	06 Feb 2005
Buy a Housewives’ Tarot (or the Epicurean Tarot deck) :) The King of Swords (I think, don’t have my deck with me) is holding a big kebab over the bbq, so he’d be a ‘meaty’. The 2 of Swords is a lady carving a turkey. The tower is a gelatine tower with fruits and veg, so that may indicate vegetarianism. The 9 of pents (or is it the 7...) is tending her garden, she could be growing herbs or tomatoes... In a standard deck... page of Pents (earth of earth) would be a vegetarian, whereas the knight and king of Cups would eat meat (they both like food, especially romantic lobster dinners!). The empress would make the meanest salad, with just about ever vegie in it, while the Emperor would eat meat (probably lamb, or rare steak). The 8 of Swords would be on a diet, and the 4 of Pents definitely needs to eat more fibre. Hmmm... what else.... the Ace of swords could represent a carving knife, and the ace of pents a brussel sprout? At a real stretch you could say that the boat on the 6 of swords represents a gravy boat.

The Which tarot cards suggest the client is vegetarian or carnivorous? thread was originally posted on 05 Feb 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.