misconception or truth?
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 20 Mar 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Danacafe |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Hi all! Im a newbie when it comes to tarot=] I have an egyptian tarot deck that im so so mesmerized with...however it is my 2nd deck i purchased..The first deck i have is an anime (chobits) deck..no picture illustration (except the character chobits herself in diff beautiful poses) and is in chinese.
My qns:
1)I heard from my friend that one is suppose to stay devoted to a tarot deck else misfortune will befall one?is that true?
2)Furthermore,she says that when i do a reading for others,the other party is suppose to cut the deck and pick the cards themselves otherwise,the reading will not be accurate..
3)She also mentioned that the other party can choose not to reveal what question he or she has in mind.Is that true too?
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| Rosanne |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Hi Danacafe- Welcome to this wonderful Forum.
1. I have the usual share of good fortune and misfortune. I do not think loyalty to one deck has anything to do with that. I have a deep love of the Tarot Deck I learned with- but I use many Decks to read with. So I am not superstitious and my answer is No.
2. I encourage the Querent to shuffle and cut the deck and I lay out the spread. This is the usual way I believe. I have had Querents who would not touch the cards and the reading was fruitful for them nevertheless. People do readings over the net here and they are accurate.Nothing about Tarot is set in concrete like your friend has said.
3. Sometimes Querents do not have a question, they just want to see what I as the reader can read from the cards. I personally prefer to interact with the querent and talk about what they would like to know from the cards- but some people are very quiet during a reading.
As you read all these threads about Tarot you will see a great variety of thought and different approaches and you will soon find out what works for you. Enjoy. Regards Rosanne
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| Formicida |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Roseanne's advice is very good, especially the bit about "nothing about Tarot is set in concrete." Ask five different readers a question like this and you'll get five different answers. Most of us just come up with a way of reading that works for us and stick to that.
I would like to add on #3 that the other party can always choose to do whatever they want. They can refuse to tell you the question; they can even tell you a misleading question that's no really what's on their mind. Sometimes that'll just give them a bad reading; sometimes the reading will knock their socks off with its relevance to the question they didn't ask. It all depends. So don't worry so much about what they choose to do, but if you're happier reading with a question you can certainly recommend that they ask it aloud to you.
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| Lillie |
20 Mar 2005 |
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I would just like to say three things.
1. Hello. Nice to see you here.
2. some people, who often call themselves friends, like to appear to be more knowlegable than other people and to tell them what to do.
This is Tarot. You can do what you like.
3. What the hell is a 'Chobits'?
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| Fudugazi |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Hello Danacafe - welcome to Aeclectic!
I think you need to experiment with different way of reading, different decks -you will find what works for you and what doesn't. It's like any human endeavour - set too many limits, and you never find out what might have been. Set none at all, and you are all over the place. But before you get to the stage of setting limits -then experiment to your heart's content. And once you do - always be ready to breach them.
And don't listen to rule-makers.
Including me ;)
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| Fudugazi |
20 Mar 2005 |
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This is Tarot. You can do what you like.
Within the bounds of respect and responsibility to the querent.
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| WolfSpirit |
20 Mar 2005 |
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If having more than one deck would bring bad luck, a lot of people here would be in deep trouble - including me ;)
I agree with what the others said - you can make your own rules, see what works for you according to your own morals.
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| Lillie |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Within the bounds of respect and responsibility to the querent.
Actually I would say that was to do with a persons own ethics, and not to do with any 'rules' or 'laws' to do with Tarot cards.
I still maintain that any person has free will and may do as they wish.
They might get punished for it, wether in this world or the next.
They may loose their friends and be hated for ever.
The might get lynched in a dark alley on a dark night.
But this too is the free will of the lynchers.
However, the principal of free will is that a person is free to make these choices and take the consequences.
Do what thou wilt.
And take the consequences.
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| Moongold |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Actually I would say that was to do with a persons own ethics, and not to do with any 'rules' or 'laws' to do with Tarot cards.
I still maintain that any person has free will and may do as they wish.
They might get punished for it, wether in this world or the next.
They may loose their friends and be hated for ever.
The might get lynched in a dark alley on a dark night.
But this too is the free will of the lynchers.
However, the principal of free will is that a person is free to make these choices and take the consequences.
Do what thou wilt.
And take the consequences.
Lillie ~
Welcome to Aeclectic as well. I haven't met you yet.
Your original statement that This is Tarot. You can do what you like perhaps came over more baldly than you intended.
It is interesting that you mention free will. Free Will does not give us the permission of the universe to hurt or damage someone, whether it be through Tarot or something else. Free Will does came attached to responsibilities. As you quite rightly pointed out, the ethical responibilities belong to the reader.
We have many discussions on these matters here and I'm not surprised that Helvetica picked you up on the statement. :)
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| Eco74 |
20 Mar 2005 |
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1. By each deck I enrich my collection and my life with - I become a better reader.
By each bit of knowledge I find in this diverse universe we live in - I become smarter and more well versed in the world.
- My very personal opinion is that by locking oneself to one way of doing something "because it is the one correct way" we miss out on so much knowledge and inspiration.. Deciding on one of the numerous ways available to be "the best one for me" is a very different thing.
- My advice is to listen to the opinions of many and feel your way to the one or ones that work for you.
2. When giving readers to others it is important to remember that it is about the both of you, about communication and about a "sacred bond" if you will that takes place during the reading.
If you as a reader determine that you would like the querent to shuffle and cut, or just cut, or just place one hand on the deck for a few seconds or not have the querent touch the deck at all - then that is the way you should do it. The difficult thing when reading for others is to switch off yourself and switch on the channel to the querent so that you can have a clear mind and see what is intended for the querent without involving your grocerylist, your laundry or any other part of your own worries or concerns getting in the way.
3. The querent can tell you (or not tell you) whatever he or she wants, just like Formicida pointed out. All you can do as a reader is disclose what you can read from the cards - the rest is really up to the querent.
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| Fudugazi |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Do what thou wilt.
And take the consequences.
Take what you will, said the Devil
And pay for it.
Yes, but best to start with a few ground rules about responsibility from the start of one's tarot reading career. Saves a few lawsuits, broken hearts, bankruptcies and fires in hell.
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| Fudugazi |
20 Mar 2005 |
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The querent can tell you (or not tell you) whatever he or she wants, just like Formicida pointed out. All you can do as a reader is disclose what you can read from the cards - the rest is really up to the querent.
I did a reading the other day for a colleague. She asked me - do I have to tell you what it's about? I answered it made things clearer, but it was not an obligation. She chose not to say anything at the beginning of the reading. She drew just one card (Ace of Swords, Marseille) - and I spoke for a while. Then she said - yes, this is just what I need for what I am going through - and she told me then what it was. After that, I was able to be more precise, but also, it became a real conversation, a two-way exchange. It lasted over an hour. The longest one-card reading I ever did! But if she hadn't said anything, I think she would still have taken away something useful for her. You can't force someone to reveal their lives for you if they're not ready.
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| Lillie |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Lillie ~
Welcome to Aeclectic as well. I haven't met you yet.
Your original statement that This is Tarot. You can do what you like perhaps came over more baldly than you intended.
It is interesting that you mention free will. Free Will does not give us the permission of the universe to hurt or damage someone, whether it be through Tarot or something else. Free Will does came attached to responsibilities. As you quite rightly pointed out, the ethical responibilities belong to the reader.
We have many discussions on these matters here and I'm not surprised that Helvetica picked you up on the statement. :)
Picked me up?
I didn't notice someone picking me up.
This is Tarot, You can do what you like.
What I said was what I meant.
What did you think I meant?
You can read it in terms of the original post. ie. do I have to follow all these stupid rules that someone is dictating to me?
No, you can do what you like. It's Tarot, not brain surgery.
Or you can take it as a more general statement.
In Tarot you can do what you like. ie. it's not brain surgery.
Or you can take it as a rule for the whole of life. ie. even if it is brain surgery do what you like. if someone dies you take the consequsence, have it on your concience. Whatever.
I do what I like. Sometimes I don't do things because I know they will hurt someone. Other people choose differently.
To me this is the essence of free will. Otherwise we are all just robots.
And Hi, nice to meet you too.
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| Fudugazi |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Ok, then Lillie, now I understand a bit better, let me disagree totally with you.
This is tarot, this is life. We might like to think we have no limits, we do what we like. We don't do what we like. We are not G-d, we are not superheroes, we are not even very wise, most of us. We do our best, I hope, or our worst, sometimes. What we like? I'd like to fly without a plane. Make the world turn backwards so I can see my nana again. Bring little Jeannette back to life who died of malaria in my arms back in 2002. I'd like to stop a missile crashing into a building or people inside burning to death. I'd like to make my lost lover love me again. I'd like to take a single tarot card and know the secrets of the Universe.
This is life. I don't do what I like. But I do and keep doing.
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| Adjustment |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Take what you will, said the Devil
And pay for it.
Yes, but best to start with a few ground rules about responsibility from the start of one's tarot reading career. Saves a few lawsuits, broken hearts, bankruptcies and fires in hell.
You are totally right Helvetica, Responsability is very important when you are reading for others because one can hurt the lifes of so many people by just reading without any responsability or care of what you are saying.
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| Lillie |
20 Mar 2005 |
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:D
Yeah.
Oh there are a thousand things I'd change if I could.
I'd fix my kid first, so he wasn't disabled anymore.
Though to be really, really honest I might just go back in time and tell myself not to get up the damn duff in the first place.
I'm not talking about that. No one is super man.
I am talking about choices. Free will = choices.
We have all these choices, and we can chose any of them. Effectively, within the bounds of the choices that we do have, we can chose to do anything we like.
Personally, in general, I try to do the right thing. Sometimes I don't, but hell, no one is perfect.
But that is my choice.
I hope that I am a good person, but if that is so then I want it to be because I chose that, not because I had to do that.
I can do what I like.
Sometimes it is important.
Do I hurt/cheat/rip off that person or do I not?
Other times it is absolutley irrelevant.
Do I have an Aero or a flake (Or even nothing, but this is chocoate I am talking about, so that's not very likely)
Other people have, will and will continue to do so. Shipman killed 250 pensioners cos he thought he was god. If he had wanted to help them he could have (he was their doctor after all!). He chose not to.
Then he chose to kill himself and now (one hopes) he will be made to account for doing as he chose to do.
I hope I will never have to account for anything like that. And that is one of the things that makes me chose as I do.
We are all bound by reality,the things that are impossible and the dreams that will never come true.
But while I am doing things, as much as I can, I will do what I choose.
And I will, as far as I can, choose what makes me happy, and hopefully makes others happy too.
I'm not a psycho, you know.
This has got far away from the original post and the original question.
With Tarot there are no hard and fast rules. Don't listen to what yur friend was telling you unless you want to.
Make up your own rules and rituals, if you want to do that.
You are an independant human being with a mind of you own.
If something works for you then it is good, for you.
This is Tarot. You can do what you like.
PS.
And I think if an adult human being needs to be told not to hurt/damage/rip off others then they are probably a lost cause anyway.
The can, of course, choose to do that, though in the end it is probably to their own detriment.
However it might be a better world if people chose not to.
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| Fudugazi |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Ah, I should have known better than get into an argument with a one-eyed jackdaw owner...;)
Choices. Yes.
(But I would still say - I have a responsibility to learn tarot as well as I can in between readings and take care of the other during a reading. Not think I have all the answers. I'm not talking about the need to avoid psychosis, or serial murder or even cruelty. Just the common-or-garden decency to learn one's stuff, show empathy and be realistic about one's abilities).
I think it's important that beginners take on board the ethics of tarot from the start. Easier then than later...
Which is not to mean, Danacafe, that you are not to experiment with your cards in your own time and with the help of willing friends, to your heart's content. Just make sure you approach it in a spirit of truth and compassion :)
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| Lillie |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Have I mentioned that weird old bird???
Oh lord! My profile.
I was in a funny mood when I wrote that. (all true though!)
I apologise if anyone has thought me agressive or combative.
I was just trying to put my point across.
Sorry for any misunderstandings.
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| Fudugazi |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Don't worry, Lillie - speaking for myself, I enjoy a good debate, especially on such important matters. I think exchanging ideas like that -especially with conviciction - helps us all make up our own mind about what we think (which more or less comes back to your point, I know).
I just had to slip in the one-eyed jackdaw, I thought it so comical an image. I am fond of jackdaws but have a healthy respect for them :)
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| Lillie |
20 Mar 2005 |
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He's a sweetie actually, and very comical.
Short jackdaw explanation. I don't usually advocate keeping wild animals as pets, and I would like to explain how we got him.
My husband found him in the street, very young, barely out of the nest, almost dead.
obviously injured.
We nursed him a bit and took him to a vet.
She said he was blind in one eye and ought to be put down.
We said we would keep him rather than that. She did not want us to, but could not stop us.
She said he should never be released to the wild as he could not survive.
She did not think he would last the night.
That was 2 years ago. He is healthy and happy.
His blind eye has sunk into the skull in a weird way so he looks weird from one side. (slight case of monsterism!)
We are pretty sure someone shot him with an airgun.
And that is how we got him.
He likes to catch cheerios out of the air and wash his head in his water bowl.
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| Jeannette |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Hi, Danacafe!
You've asked some excellent questions, and I think you've probably already gotten quite a bit of good advice in response. For the record, however, I'd like to mention a book called Tarot Tips by Wald and Ruth Ann Amberstone, which addresses your original questions and many, many more that those new to tarot commonly ask. If you have a lot of doubts or concerns about what is "correct," I think that the Amberstones' book could be an invaluable resource for you.
For example, in reply to your third question:
3)She also mentioned that the other party can choose not to reveal what question he or she has in mind.Is that true too?
While, of course, the querent may choose not to reveal their question -- and you may choose to respect that, and do the reading anyway -- the Amberstones point out that it might be better to encourage them to rethink their position on the matter. By way of explanation, they offer the following analogy:
[indent]"...Imagine a patient who refuses to tell the doctor what's wrong, on the grounds that the doctor, if he's any good, should be able to figure it out. That always seemed to me like a great waste of valuable time." Tarot Tips, Tip #35: Quiet Querents[/indent]
Just because as tarotists, we deal daily with phenomena on the intuitive/irrational planes, doesn't mean we have to be completely impractical in regards to how we go about it. ;)
-- Jeannette
The Tarot Garden
P.S. -- Oh, yes... and if what your friend told you about "staying devoted" to a deck is true, then I'm headed for the same scary place as WolfSpirit -- LOL! But, for what it's worth, I've got over 1,000 tarots here, and none of them have shown any particular jealousy or trouble-making tendencies simply because I tend to flit from deck to deck.
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| Moongold |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Sounds as though he got a got a good home. Now what is a chobit? Should I go back and read?
I like a good debate too and I think it would be great to have one on Free Will. Perhaps we could have another Platonic diiscussion, Helvetia? With the Marseille again a la XIII.
Moongold
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| Jeannette |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Oh, sorry -- I missed the opportunity to point out something in response to the following comment:
I like a good debate too and I think it would be great to have one on Free Will.
For what it's worth, this thread kinda was trying to go that direction, I think:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=38621
If you can get past the good-natured silliness that were my contributions, maybe this thread would be of interest?
-- Jeannette
The Tarot Garden
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| Lillie |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Little blond girls in faintly pornographic poses/clothes is Chobits?
How sad. I had imagined little furry animals.
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| rabidwolfie |
20 Mar 2005 |
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Loyalty to one deck or the other has never seemed like a big deal to me & the few other tarot readers I know, but if you should want an odd way to read the cards, I'll tell you about my freind Laura, or as we jokingly call her, "Madame L."
She has a little silver goblet that she fills with oil, what kind I'm not sure but it has a flowery smell. She then takes a pin & pokes one of her fingers, letting one drop of her blood fall into the oil & insists the querrant do the same. In fact, she refuses to do a reading if you don't let her poke you with the needle. I should mention she also has several candles already going.
Without touching the goblet again, she'll put a band-aid on her finger & then get her cards. The rest is typical I guess.
Crazy as her ritual sounds, I've never heard a single complaint about her readings being inaccurate. I in no way recommend anyone do what Laura does, especially me, as I have an incredable phobia of needles. If she stabbed me with a dagger it wouldn't bother me, but show me a needle & I'm half way out the door. Anyway, my point here is that rituals are basically specific to each person, it mostly just a way to get yourself mentally &/or physically ready for the reading. No one way is better than any other, you just do what works for you. Not what someone else does.
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| Danacafe |
21 Mar 2005 |
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oops sorry for the late reply, yep,thats chobits but its actually an anime from clamp=] I'm pretty into japanese animation..i think its pretty artistic!
Also,i would like to really really thank all of u for these wonderful advises! yay! =D Thanks ^-^
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| Lillie |
21 Mar 2005 |
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I can see the attraction of Japanese animation.
It's just that all the girls look so young, and all their skirts are so short.
It seems to me to be a rather attractive combination of innocence and sexuality that also seems to me a little strange, and perhaps slightly disturbing.
Though I do understand that my perception is from the view point of my culture, and the Japanese artists who draw these young girls might percieve it differently.
Madame Laura's Tarot ritual.
How wonderfully mystic and exciting!
Though I do hope she uses a clean needle for every person!
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| Adjustment |
21 Mar 2005 |
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Loyalty to one deck or the other has never seemed like a big deal to me & the few other tarot readers I know, but if you should want an odd way to read the cards, I'll tell you about my freind Laura, or as we jokingly call her, "Madame L."
She has a little silver goblet that she fills with oil, what kind I'm not sure but it has a flowery smell. She then takes a pin & pokes one of her fingers, letting one drop of her blood fall into the oil & insists the querrant do the same. In fact, she refuses to do a reading if you don't let her poke you with the needle. I should mention she also has several candles already going.
Without touching the goblet again, she'll put a band-aid on her finger & then get her cards. The rest is typical I guess.
Crazy as her ritual sounds, I've never heard a single complaint about her readings being inaccurate. I in no way recommend anyone do what Laura does, especially me, as I have an incredable phobia of needles. If she stabbed me with a dagger it wouldn't bother me, but show me a needle & I'm half way out the door. Anyway, my point here is that rituals are basically specific to each person, it mostly just a way to get yourself mentally &/or physically ready for the reading. No one way is better than any other, you just do what works for you. Not what someone else does.
With so many diseases that you can get by sharing a needle I woudn't trust any person unles it is necesary to use on a visit to the doctor to use a needle on me even if the needle is new there could be accidents that can happen more likely if the person using it is no wearing gloves.
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| psychic sue |
22 Mar 2005 |
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Do whatever feels best for you.
There are no hard and fast rules.
Sue x
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| Emeraldgirl |
22 Mar 2005 |
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I had a friend like that. I was taught to read the cards by my friends mother when I was 11. I stopped really full on reading them when I was about 17 for a few years (maybe 1 spread in 6 months).
When I started to fell the need to pick up the cards again I had a friend who is a first initiate witch and who sat there every time I got out my cards, or shopped for cards or tarot related products spewing buts of negativity my way. I just switched off and stopped listening to her. She got loader until one day I just turned and said to her
"I realise you are tying to help and that you have a lot of valuable knowledge on tarot and spellwork (and a few other things) and I thank you for trying to help me but I am travelling down my spiritual path my own way and I am still exploring the concepts that appeal to me the most and are most relevant to my life. I hope though I can call on you for advice when I need it but please do not offer any to me until asked as I have to do this on my own to grow as a person" she hasn't butted in since and I didn't hurt her feelings. (I hope).
A lot of the advice that she offered me was similar to the advice that your friend offered you. I had learnt enough to now that everyone is different and that what works for one person my not work for all. here was also the fact that she hated me buying decks for myself cause she had told her boyfriend that you can't buy your own deck and so he had to buy them for her!!!!!!!!!
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| jmd |
23 Mar 2005 |
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Rules to be observed in a Tarot reading:- Have a deck of Tarot handy. If not, then simply imagine you do;
- Have a querent. If you don't, that's alright;
- The cards need to be shuffled
(this one's an optional rule);
- Either use a spread, or don't;
- Important: always use the same deck for the reading you are currently doing - and by all means add an additional deck or two for clarification, or mix decks together for a panache-reading.
(Please note that inability to follow these precise rules may lead to cancellation of any certification one may have received - with exceptions to those who are officially certified Scallywag in Tarot).
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The misconception or truth? thread was originally posted on 20 Mar 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.
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