Pluto and Uranus. Judgment and Fool.

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 15 Mar 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Tsuzuki	15 Mar 2005
I noticed that the Whare Ra tarot has Judgment associated with Pluto and The Fool with Uranus, but the Hermetic Tarot has Pluto with The Fool and Uranus with Judgment. Which is the more accepted placement? Edit: And which other decks have Pluto with The Fool?

Fulgour	16 Mar 2005
As a kind of last gasp, many Thoth-based decks seek attributions with a more modern flavour. It really doesn't work, for Tarot or Kaballah, but rather than give up what they try is: Uranus = Air = Aleph = The Fool Neptune = Water = Mem = The Hanged Man Pluto = Fire = Shin = Judgement Pluto (now proven nonexistent) hardly fits for Fire, and of course Shin is the attribute for The World, Mem for Death, and Aleph for The Magician. :)

Tsuzuki	16 Mar 2005
I have Pluto conjunct my Ascendant natally, and I can tell you that Pluto is very much existent. Personally, I think it fits with fire and Judgment. I'm curious, though, why it would be assigned to air and The Fool by some.

Kaylee Marie	16 Mar 2005
I don't generally pay any mind to astrological assignments in tarot, as they seem too contrived. That said, I could see Pluto as the Fool. He is headed for an abrupt change, about to plunge into a deep world of symbolism and mythology. Of course, Uranus can also be associated with sudden changes. Pluto's changes, however, are more of the life-altering variety. But Pluto is a water planet (astrologically speaking, not physically), so I really don't understand why he would be associated with air. Fire, I can see, but not air. Fulgour, how exactly has Pluto been "proven nonexistant"?

Fulgour	16 Mar 2005
Kaylee Marie wrote: Fulgour, how exactly has Pluto been "proven nonexistant"? Pluto may lose planet status by Stephen Cauchi March 10 2003 A New York planetarium in 1999 did not include Pluto in its display of planets, and the IAU was forced to deny rumours that year it would de-list Pluto. But some academics, like Ross Taylor of the Australian National University, have already removed Pluto from planet status in their textbooks. "Most astronomers now say there are eight planets," Professor Taylor said last year. "It's arbitrary ... you get into a real semantic sort of swamp. It's like trying to define life." The Sydney Morning Herald

Fulgour	16 Mar 2005
Tsuzuki wrote: I have Pluto conjunct my Ascendant natally, and I can tell you that Pluto is very much existent. My Plutonian Credentials: Scorpio with Pluto in Leo (exalted) in 8th (Scorpio) House, and Mars in Capricorn (exalted) in 1st (Mars-Aries) House. If there was an attribute for Pluto in Tarot it'd be the box.

Tsuzuki	16 Mar 2005
This in from the Lowell Observatory. Quote: Until all this gets settled, know this: Pluto was labeled a planet at the time of its discovery by the International Astronomical Union who has authority over such matters. For Pluto's official status to change, that same international group would have to rule on a change. It certainly beyond the authority of a single person to make these changes for us. The latest batch of naysayers putting Pluto down are not acting with any authority and are really doing us all a disservice in the process. It may make for a flashier news story but it is based on misguided concerns. Why not concentrate on what a neat place Pluto is and think ahead to what we'll all learn by continuing our studies of this unique world in our midst. http://www.lowell.edu/users/buie/pluto/planet.html My Full Plutonian Credentials: Sun and Mars conjunct in Scorpio oposite Jupiter in the 8th house. Uranus in Scorpio and the 1st house. Pluto sextile Saturn on one end and Neptune on the other and within minutes of the Ascendant in the same degree. Now, about those planetary associations.

The Pluto and Uranus. Judgment and Fool. thread was originally posted on 15 Mar 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.