Aggravation...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 24 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Gwynne	24 Apr 2005
I've recently started reading in a local pagan shop and I love it. There are other readers working other nights, and a massage therapist is there one night a week. It's great because she and I traded services (oh yeah... massage for a reading... mmmm....) Anyway, one of the other readers is a Rune reader. I read runes too, but incorporate Runes, Tarot and sometimes Pendulum into one reading. This other reader does Runes only, which is fine, I've done reading where I got all the information I needed and then some from the Runes. I decided to check her out one day, see her reading style etc. Anytime I come across another reader I tend to get at least one reading done (if I can afford it, we had one woman charging $200 an hour for readings from her home) I like to see how other people work, other people's interpretations of the cards/stones, etc. But she had a book! And papers with meanings! She couldn't do a straight reading without having to look up the meaning of the Runes! I was so... stunned! How do you charge for a reading when you have to look it up? Anyone could do that? What's worse is that the way she connected some of the Runes to the positional meanings was shaky at best, and she didn't tie the Runes together at all! Now first of all, when I read Runes I don't use positions, I throw them and read them as they fall, but I know that a lot of people read in a spread much like Tarot. If it works for them it's great! But the way she was doing it just wasn't working! I guess my question is, Do you feel it's appropriate to charge for a reading if you have to turn to a book or other source for meanings during the reading?

Alta	24 Apr 2005
I think if you still have to look up the meanings, keep practicing on your friends for a while longer. I cannot imagine how anyone could have any confidence in a reader who is so shaky in her interpretations. And if they paid once, why they would ever pay twice. As you say, if you have to check a book, just about anyone could do that themselves. You pay for a level of mastery and an ability to tie the reading together and get to the heart of things. By the book readings (except as mingbop described in another thread) lack unity, which is important. The cards rarely stand alone.

ncefafn	24 Apr 2005
I'm curious about the reader who charges $200/hour. Gee whiz, I know lawyers who come cheaper than that! :) Kim

peridot	24 Apr 2005
I do not feel that that is appropriate at all. It's one thing to be a beginner and practice with others using books and what not but to charge someone? and did you say $200 and hour??? That's rediculous! No way would I would feel right about charging someone money (never mind $200!) when I'm still learning and using my books. To me it is unprofessional. People expect you to know what you're doing and be knowledgeable. That's why they pay you their hard earned cash. I think she's got a lot of nerve. That sort of thing happened to me once at one of those card reading parties. The girl was using angel oracle cards which I thought would be a really interesting reading. Well, I sit down and she proceeds to tell me how the angels can send messages to us and that she has a strong rapport with angels. I'm thinking, ok. pretty neat. So she lays out these really beautiful cards in front of us, and now I'm trying to figure out myself what they could possibly mean eagerly awaiting her interpretations and she pulls out this friggin angle book! And flips through the pages looking up meanings, regurgitating the authors notes. I was so disappointed. I felt really cheated. and this was only 30 bucks! Some rapport. Yeah, so wrong.

Fairawen	24 Apr 2005
*lol* Peridot, it wasn't THAT reader who was charging $200, she was just mentioning it offhand. :P $200 is ridiculous for any reading though. The lady should be ashamed. I'd say that's aggrivating! I mean... how much could that person have possibly studied the runes if they had to look them up? I've only been studying tarot for a few monthes and I've gotten to the point where I can look at the card and tell you the basics of it. Maybe this person somehow heard that you do Runes too, and wasn't feeling so confident so decided to bring the book along... and ended up forgetting alot of the meanings? That is, however, just kinda stupid. I share your aggrivation. Peridot's too. To say she has rapport with angels, then look up the meanings in the dang book?!? Yeah. Some rapport. ~Fairawen~

peridot	24 Apr 2005
Fairawen wrote: *lol* Peridot, it wasn't THAT reader who was charging $200, she was just mentioning it offhand. :P $200 is ridiculous for any reading though. The lady should be ashamed. Oh, duh! Ok, thanks for clarifying. Now I'm especially interested in what kind of reading is worth $200. Do I get a past life regression and a facial with that? :)

Fairawen	24 Apr 2005
*lol* Peridot, for $200 the deck that she did the reading with should come with the facial and past life regression! :P Oh, and Gwynne, that's a good trade. Reading for a massage. Oooh, sign me up, I'll give here all the readings she wants... :) ~Fairawen~

Gwynne	24 Apr 2005
peridot wrote: Oh, duh! Ok, thanks for clarifying. Now I'm especially interested in what kind of reading is worth $200. Do I get a past life regression and a facial with that? :) As far as I know it's just a straight one hour psychic reading. And she didn't last long. This isn't exactly the richest area. In fact it's the poorest county in the state with the highest unemployment rate. So no one can afford $200 an hour! The Rune reader at the shop.... she has to use the book for everyone. Not that she gets a lot of people wanting readings. People have heard of Tarot, so when I have my sign out front saying "Tarot Readings, Rune Readings, Past Life Readings" they actually have an idea of what they are getting. But her sign says "Rune and Junk Readings" not exactly something that inspires confidence... and then to sit down and have her read the book to you? Not to mention the book she was reading was one that makes me want to go *aaaarrrrrggggghhhhh* It's sad when the querant has to help the reader figure out what it means... I paid her anyway, I felt bad for her as I was her only reading for the five hours she was there that day, and I have to turn away people when I'm reading in the shop. It's a mall, people want fast and accurate, and she's anything but.

ncefafn	24 Apr 2005
peridot wrote: Oh, duh! Ok, thanks for clarifying. Now I'm especially interested in what kind of reading is worth $200. Do I get a past life regression and a facial with that? :) I think that's fair. A past life regression, then a sloughing skin treatment to peel off the old karma. ;) Kim

rainwolf	24 Apr 2005
Book reading is soooooo not a reading, memorization is the BASICS. Gwynne~how do read runes by throwing them? Do you read by a pattern or which ones land face up? I havent been reading mine because i cant find a way i like to ''throw'' them. How exactly do you do yours? (PM me if you want thread to stay on topic :))

cybercat	24 Apr 2005
What I would do for that kind of money. I will give you a reading, swedish massage, foot massage and a reiki treatment. Heck I will even throw in a good meal. Any takers? LOL Cat Anyway, I know that in a big city like Miami, New York ect. you might be able to pull that off. We did with massage. We could charge up to $200 for an hour massage. Now tarot reading is charge much like the standard for massage where I came from $1 a minute. Some got more and they got it also as I said. It is all about location location location.

Gwynne	24 Apr 2005
cybercat wrote: What I would do for that kind of money. I will give you a reading, swedish massage, foot massage and a reiki treatment. Heck I will even throw in a good meal. Any takers? LOL Cat Anyway, I know that in a big city like Miami, New York ect. you might be able to pull that off. We did with massage. We could charge up to $200 for an hour massage. Now tarot reading is charge much like the standard for massage where I came from $1 a minute. Some got more and they got it also as I said. It is all about location location location. Yup, I charge about $1 a minute, although usually in 15 or 60 minute blocks, that tend to go longer and I don't charge for the extra minutes. I've had a reading last well into two hours and only charge $45 for it (she had a coupon). I WISH I could pull in $200 an hour!!! Seriously, I would have no more worries! LOL Work 10 hours a week, make $100,000 a year.... That would be the life....

Fairawen	24 Apr 2005
*lol* And PA is not a location. It is a giant hole in the earth. Your lucky if someone even wants a reading. :P Sorry, just had to mention that. :) ~Fairawen~

Scion	24 Apr 2005
I can't shake this visual... A doctor performing brain surgery and stopping for a second to check her medschool textbooks to make sure she's removing a lump and not your amygdala. Or how about a plumber who shows up with a wrench and a DIY book from Home Depot? :confused: People are so mystifying. What's more surprising to me than the lady regurgitating for cash is the hapless gulls forking over for the privelege of having bookblurbs decanted into their ears. Not to sound harsh, but everyone has to take some responsibility. :mad: If you get paid it's a job, and if it's your job you should know it. And if it's your career you should be building on that knowledge ceaselessly. Scion

Gwynne	24 Apr 2005
Scion wrote: I can't shake this visual... A doctor performing brain surgery and stopping for a second to check her medschool textbooks to make sure she's removing a lump and not your amygdala. Or how about a plumber who shows up with a wrench and a DIY book from Home Depot? :confused: People are so mystifying. What's more surprising to me than the lady regurgitating for cash is the hapless gulls forking over for the privelege of having bookblurbs decanted into their ears. Not to sound harsh, but everyone has to take some responsibility. :mad: If you get paid it's a job, and if it's your job you should know it. And if it's your career you should be building on that knowledge ceaselessly. Scion That's exactly it! You don't let a first year med student perform neurosurgery! Reading, whether Runes, Tarot or whatever your preferred method is a delicate process! And just reading from the book? Imagine getting the Sun, the Ten of Swords and Death in a three card reading and quoting straight from the book on those? I'll use the Robin Wood LWB as an example. Quote: Accomplisment, success, material happiness. A good marriage, joy, pleasure. Liberation, freedom, contentment. Misfortune, ruin, defeat, loss, failure, pain, isolation beyond tears. Alternatively, evils or misfortunes are over. The end of an era (and a beginning). A reminder of mortality. A great change. A discovery which changes the seeker's life direction. Yeah... ok... but what does that mean? It doesn't tell the client how that affects her life, what's going on, what she can do? How about that "misfortune, ruin, defeat" spoiling a perfectly good reading? A client will remember how a reading makes them feel, and saying those words? That's all they'll think about! They'll make themselves miserable over it! Sure those aren't the best cards to have, although overall I'd say it was someone who'd led a really charmed life until it was all taken away. But they are growing through the pain and change, a new beginning is coming very soon for them.... Anyway... Where's intuition in reading from a book? Where is the flow? That's got to kill any conversation to have to pause and search through a book!

rainwolf	24 Apr 2005
I second that scion :D When im not lazy im a hard worker LOL--no in betweens.

The Dreamer	24 Apr 2005
Scion wrote: I can't shake this visual... A doctor performing brain surgery and stopping for a second to check her medschool textbooks to make sure she's removing a lump and not your amygdala. Or how about a plumber who shows up with a wrench and a DIY book from Home Depot? :confused: People are so mystifying. What's more surprising to me than the lady regurgitating for cash is the hapless gulls forking over for the privelege of having bookblurbs decanted into their ears. Not to sound harsh, but everyone has to take some responsibility. :mad: If you get paid it's a job, and if it's your job you should know it. And if it's your career you should be building on that knowledge ceaselessly. Scion I don't know if divination can really be compared to brain surgery. Many people see it as closer to psychology, or even poetry. And in regard to the plumber- if they got the job done right, but liked to refer to the book, and I didn't want to do it myself enough to pay someone else to do it, that wouldn't bother me. I guess for me what it comes down to is whether the reading is correct. I've only paid someone to read for me once, mainly because I was there, so why not. The result was that I got the exact same message I'd gotten from reading for myself (although I had not divined about that subject for a while, so it was important to hear it again at the time.) And, in reading for myself, I stay pretty close to the book, and mostly draw single cards at a time, rather than spreads. The reader I paid used a huge spread, but the exact same message came out. If the person were reading from the book, and the reading was accurate and useful, then that would probably point up the fact that a person could have done the reading for themself, and would make it silly to pay someone else to do it, rather than do it themself- but, maybe the person getting the reading does not own a tarot deck, just as many people do not own a wrench and are not interested in buying one for future use. If the reading were not accurate, that would be a real problem. People have different reading styles. There is not only one way to do it. Some readers may have something special which really merits going out of one's way to get a reading from them. My only concern about paying someone to read would be whether their style was working to produce a useful reading, and whether it would be worth paying for that.

Little Baron	24 Apr 2005
I have never been paid for a reading, as yet. All of my readings are for friends or people I meet through friends - at parties, social gatherings when I have a deck handy. I bought my first deck eight years ago and have practiced a lot in those years. I am not so good at moving between one deck and another, which I did for the most of that time and have only settled to learn with just one style recently - this has hindered my tarot study and bonding with just one deck, which is why I still consider myself a beginner and not confident enough to charge anyone for my readings. However much of a beginner I am, I would never pull a book out during a reading - I refer to books less these days. I would feel that as soon as I pulled out the book, I would have lost the querant and the reading would begin to fall apart. I agree that it wouldn't give the querant much confidence in what I was doing and I am sure they would feel cheated. We are lucky to be part of this community; to discuss these issues and gain others experiences and viewpoints - I suppose some readers are not part of a place like Aeclectic and maybe do not feel that there is anything wrong with what they are doing. $200 is an expensive reading! - you could buy your own book and runes for cheaper, I am sure and perform your own. I suppose the bottom line is that using a book during a reading doesn't come accross as professional, which is what someone seeks when they go and get their cards read. Some people may only have one reading in their life and if it was by someone like that, chances are they would have a dim view of other tarot/rune readers, as well - and no inclination to change their point of view after such a bad and expensive experience. LB

HudsonGray	24 Apr 2005
"Rune and Junk Readings"? If that's an exact quote off her sign, she's killing herself with her marketing approach! The words place her right at the bargain basement along with rummage sales & freebie giveaways. But it does sound like she's more of a beginner than a studied reader, she should be doing more practice then come back and read with confidence, no books, no backup. I'm sure she'll learn.

Gwynne	24 Apr 2005
HudsonGray wrote: "Rune and Junk Readings"? If that's an exact quote off her sign, she's killing herself with her marketing approach! The words place her right at the bargain basement along with rummage sales & freebie giveaways. But it does sound like she's more of a beginner than a studied reader, she should be doing more practice then come back and read with confidence, no books, no backup. I'm sure she'll learn. Yup, that's an exact quote. She does "junk" readings where you pick from a bunch of odds and ends she has and she reads it for you. Never seen it, but the sign can't inspire much confidence!

Fairawen	24 Apr 2005
Rune and Junk Readings. HAHAHAHAHA!!! ~Fairawen~

HudsonGray	24 Apr 2005
I think she'd be better off calling it 'talisman readings' or 'folk divination'. If you see her, ask her about her marketing approach and how it appears to someone who has little knowledge of divination, she needs to upscale the presentation! The name really says it all in many instances. A simple change can mean the difference between occasional sales & very steady ones. That sign needs to be made more appealing because it just isn't giving the right impression.

WolfSpirit	25 Apr 2005
I think a junk reading would be fun :D I'm really curious about that. But it does look weird on a sign like that ! I don't do readings for money - but I guess it would be ok to use a book purely for reference, for example, if the reader knows what he wants to say but the right expression just won't pop into his head but he knows a book that describes it just perfectly ~ then it would not be a problem for me. Many skilled workers have a reference book at hand. But this of course is a very different situation from what Gwynne experienced. What worries me most though is the inability to connect the meanings of the different runes into one whole. The reading remains meaningless that way, and the querent will probably think it is all just a load of cr*p.

Little Baron	25 Apr 2005
WolfSpirit wrote: I think a junk reading would be fun :D I'm really curious about that. I was thinking exactly the same thing, lol. LB

Gwynne	25 Apr 2005
WolfSpirit wrote: I think a junk reading would be fun :D I'm really curious about that. But it does look weird on a sign like that ! I don't do readings for money - but I guess it would be ok to use a book purely for reference, for example, if the reader knows what he wants to say but the right expression just won't pop into his head but he knows a book that describes it just perfectly ~ then it would not be a problem for me. Many skilled workers have a reference book at hand. But this of course is a very different situation from what Gwynne experienced. What worries me most though is the inability to connect the meanings of the different runes into one whole. The reading remains meaningless that way, and the querent will probably think it is all just a load of cr*p. I'm curious about how she does the junk readings, although I'm not all that sure about going back to her. With the experience I had with her Rune reading, and the impression I got from her..... Yes, if you can't connect the runes into a whole it's useless. Our lives are intricately connected, we can't seperate one part from another no matter how hard we try, and so whether you read Tarot or Runes or Junk, you need to be able to form a complete picture and she just couldn't do that.

cybercat	25 Apr 2005
Is there ar simular site like AT for rune reders? If so you might want to give her the heads up on it. She could use the help it would give. What I am wondering is how she got hired if she had to use the book. Did the store owner not give her a test run? Cat

Gwynne	25 Apr 2005
cybercat wrote: Is there ar simular site like AT for rune reders? If so you might want to give her the heads up on it. She could use the help it would give. What I am wondering is how she got hired if she had to use the book. Did the store owner not give her a test run? Cat She's been a regular employee for years and it's only since moving to a new storefront in the past two months that they've been able to offer readings. They just didn't have the room before. She hasn't done a reading for the owner yet, so I honestly don't think the store owner is really aware of this. Although from all rumors this person is on her way out anyway.... Not only as a reader but as an employee too. Runes aren't nearly as popular as Tarot, so while their are a few forums available they aren't very active. Not to mention if she walked into a serious rune discussion listing the book she uses she'd be laughed off the site! She's the kind of person who acts like she knows everything about everything and tries to outdo everyone, but ends up falling on her face everytime.

The Aggravation... thread was originally posted on 24 Apr 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.