An Apology (for TABI members especially)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 20 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Umbrae	20 Apr 2005
I made a post a while back that rightfully ruffled feathers. And then since I didn’t revisit the thread I had no idea my words caused hurt feelings, and bad feelings were allowed to fester. Going back and reading what was posted (now edited) – I am in agreement with everybody who was offended. What was going on in my mind, and what came out my fingers – were two very different things. What I wanted to do was separate TABI from the ATA (or whatever they are calling themselves now) and imply that TABI was not 'idiot driven' (as apparently some North American accreditation programs in my opinion may be). But that’s not how it came out. The malapropisms indeed implied that I thought TABI was idiot driven. I have no direct experience with TABI. And I don’t care about the anecdotal evidence (although I did get a great story from Major Tom that’s a real hoot), which is all the info I have on TABI. So in an effort to separate, I confused. And in an effort to apologize, I’ve become long winded and hopefully not obfuscated my meaning… I do not personally believe that TABI ‘idot driven’. I apologize for stating such. I am sorry for any hurt my words have caused. I truly am sorry if I offended, or ruffled feathers – that was not my intent. I would have hastened to correct this error earlier had I been made aware of it.

jmd	20 Apr 2005
Also just for the record, the ATA itself does not certify. A number of years ago some of the fiasco of certification seemed to have been addressed with the separation between the ATA itself and the various certification 'boards' that have since been established. A useful source (even if I do not in the least agree with the implication that, in the case of reading Tarot, 'certification is proof that you have mastered a set of skills in a field') is viewable on the ATA site at Down the Rabbit Hole - a title I concur with at least! :)

Baby Owl	21 Apr 2005
I was thinking of joining the ATA but after reading these posts, I am now wondering if that is a good idea. I don't want to start a heated discussion or argument. However, if someone would like to PM me and explain what I might be missing (or misunderstanding), I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Fudugazi	21 Apr 2005
OK - dumb question - but how can one be certified in Tarot reading? I mean - sometimes it takes aeons for things to unfold which were seen in the cards; sometimes they are immediately relevant but the querent won't see it. I've been helped by some readings months - even years - after they occured. Before that they were nice but so-so. So who judges the efficacy of a tarot reader? And how?

cybercat	21 Apr 2005
Baby Owl we are not talking about ATA. We are talking about the certification groups like TCBA, ACTA. ATA is a learning group they do not certify.

Clau	21 Apr 2005
Helvetica: Your questions have been thoroughly discussed in other very recent thread(S) I don't know how to link stuff here so I can't help you with that... BUT if you ask me: I really don't need anybody to tell me if I do or don't know tarot. Much less I need a piece of paper..I think one is the best and often hardest judge of oneself, so when you know you know you're right. And if you think you have still a lot ot learn, you know and are right too. This comes form my thinking to keep tarot as a craftsmanship, I see myself as an artisan, working slowly and patiently with tarot, I has taken me ages to be where I am with tarot and it wil take me a long time to be a good reader and even to understand tarot as a system of thought. This means I don't care for the "professional" side of tarot, meaning professional=certification. Here on At there are MANY professional readers that aren't certified, and When I say professional I mean dedicated, caring, wise tarot readers. I'm not saying certified tarot readers aren't dedicated or caring or wise, it's just I dont' get why should you need certification for something that has no fixed criteria, for something that is not scientific in the ordinary sense of the word. my 2 cents.

Fudugazi	21 Apr 2005
Precisely, Clau! No-one has yet demonstrated to me the value of certification - because no-one has yet shown me that the certification exam judges what a tarot reader actually does. I like your analogy of the craftsman. I don't know if it's the same in Latin America, but in Europe, the craftsmen, in order to become masters, had to go through a series of initiations - in their craft and in the craft of life of and glory of God...it was a long process, lonely. Before becoming a master, you became an apprentice, then a journeyman for years, and finally you could be accepted by your guild as a master. No exams. Just years of good work behind you.

Moonbow*	21 Apr 2005
Just helping you out Clau :) Some recent threads discussing this: Tarot Certification Board of America - a critical appraisal certification or not?!???... Readers and 'Codes of Ethics' As you can see, a passionate subject.

The An Apology (for TABI members especially) thread was originally posted on 20 Apr 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.