Are the cards "just cards"??? (Any inherent "power" in them?)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

IDN	26 Apr 2005
I would like your opinions on whether you think your tarot decks "actually" have any inherent "magical / mystical" properties??? My personal belief is that the Tarot works by the intuition that "we" develop through their use. I believe the cards are just literally printed pieces of card with images on them- nothing more? I'm intersted in just how many tarot readers share this view- or do you think your cards have a hidden power all of their own? If your share the view that they are just (generally) mass-produced pieces of card with images- then it follows that letting others handle your cards does not take away their effectiveness, etc. It also follows that they don't "stop loving you" or "are angry with you", etc. Would love to hear different opinions. Regards, Ian

Rogan	26 Apr 2005
I think this is a really interesting subject... One of my main little tasks with Tarot is to de-mystify the subject - A lot of my friends go all "Ooooh, can you read my mind?" "Can you see Dead People" blah blah blah... And I tell them that the cards are simply a divinition tool to help me, with my intuition, focus on the questions and give advice on certain subjects that the querrant brings up... Yes, i think they're just pieces of card, mass produced in a factory somewhere - BUT, at the same time - I think the energy that I put into the cards while doing a ready is what makes them what they are. They're a tool. Kinda like a doctor with a stethescope - He can tell you what he thinks is wrong without it, but with it he can listen inside you and tell you a little bit more information. He can confirm things with it. Kinda like that, I guess...

jmd	26 Apr 2005
It was precisely some of the considerations you raise here that once lead me to start the thread entitled 'The instrument is its own teacher'. As you mention, the cards are printed pieces with images on them - not, I would add, random splashes. These images are not only meaningful, but iconic. As such, they lead one towards the spiritual realm. Leading towards and connecting one to the spiritual realms, it can further be viewed, as I certainly would suggest, that spiritual impulses make their way to our ever relatively foggy consciousness as a consequence. The very deck we choose, then, can also have distinct influences on which path one heads, and what we encounter along the way - including, for example, love, anger, etc..

KatRabbit	26 Apr 2005
I'm with you on this one :) To me, the cards are just triggers to my imagination/ intuition etc. I have found the more I use the cards the more associations I can make, and my mind goes off on one! LOL (if that makes sense) I don't see that as any power inherent in the cards other than that of the imagery to help me extract things from the inner recesses of my mind. Some decks I find easier to do this with than others, although I wouldn't put this down to "anything" in the deck, rather the artwork not being something I gel with. Also, if I have been using a deck for quite some time I sometimes find it harder to extract meanings. Again, I don't put this down to anything "in" the deck. Rather, it is me getting bored with the images (or too familiar with them is probably a better description!!!) I probably don't "see" anything new in them and begin churning out old interpretations. Then it is time to use a new deck to refresh my tired eyes!!! It is also a good excuse to buy some new ones LOL Just my 2p worth - would be interested to hear what others think :)

Eco74	26 Apr 2005
When a deck is created, however it is printed it will contain a little of the creators 'intent' or 'essense'. So while the deck itself has no life of its own, it does have a kind of 'spirit of creation' in it in the form or the creators intent when putting together the images. It is still up to us to access this 'spirit of intent' however and I don't feel that the deck itself can radiate this spirit, but rather that it is our own response to the illustrations that brings out certain feelings when we look at or use the deck.

Fulgour	26 Apr 2005
It's like with Cinderella, only you're the slipper...

WolfSpirit	26 Apr 2005
I think the cards are "just cards", tools I use, without any magical power of their own. However, if you use a tool correctly it can work miracles for you ;) Books are just piles of paper with funny black symbols on them, but if you know how to read them and understand what you read, they can help you transform your life. I like to think of my decks like that, only the decks will work in areas where the books don't. And I use both decks and books with the most respect, as they are valuable to me, and as a hommage to the great minds and artists behind them. But I don't fear or worship them.

The Dreamer	26 Apr 2005
Since I've done divination successfully with things that are made up only of words, and not visual symbols- (tao te ching cards)- I don't think it's only about the images. It could be said, though, that words themselves are symbols. Because I've sucessfully done tarot divination through a computer program, with no physical cards, I don't think it's only about energies in the physical cards. Because I don't interpret intuitively, I don't think the "power" is from my own subconscious. None of those things rules out there being a possible "power" involved when physical cards are used, though; or that different things can be going on when people use the cards in different ways. The most mysterious thing about it for me is why the right cards come up. In regard to how the right cards come up- it seems to have to do with randomness or intuition- (often my intuition guides me about which cards to pull, how many times to shuffle, which questions to ask.) But, that doesn't go to the question of why. I don't know what the "power" is in divination, or where it comes from.

Grizabella	26 Apr 2005
**The most mysterious thing about it for me is why the right cards come up.** I think the mysterious thing for me is that my mind makes the right intuitive associations out of the cards that happen to come up. Because those same cards could come up and someone else might not read them the same way, so the mystery is why my own intuition does come up with the "right" interpretation for those particular cards. It's not that those cards came up in the first place. I don't give any power to the cards. They're just ink on card stock. Any power and mystery lies within the mind of the person doing the reading and the mind as influenced by a greater universal consciousness, possibly.

Citrin	26 Apr 2005
I'm not sure about this one... I new deck is to me just paper, like you all are saying. Paper with images. But as soon as a person starts to treat them as tarot cards, and read with them, I think they get energy (both from the reader's/quaerent's soul and the whole world's soul) and the images contain a lot of power. I dunno, I'm probably being too new age'y or whatever now hehe. But that's the impression my cards have given me, and I wouldn't dream of being disrespectful to them.

zombi00	29 Apr 2005
they are just paper and ink, in my opinion. case in point: i knew an old hispanic man that used to do tarot all the time, with bicycle playing cards. how about people that throw stones/bones? are they somehow magical in nature? its like what Citrin said, you treat them as more and they will become so. again, in my humble opinion. :)

Lianne	01 May 2005
I think that the power in divination (at least with Tarot) lies in the person, not the cards. The cards are simply pieces of paper with images on them which are designed to stimulate your subconscious, intuition, etc through the use of symbolism. I think that, a lot of times, when people say a deck is angry with them or has stopped liking them, etc, it's simply that the person can't relate to the symbolism of the images on the card; or, if the deck used to work but doesn't anymore, it could be that something has been going on in the reader's life that is affecting the way they perceive things and they may no longer be able to relate to the images in the same way they used to, events in their life may be coloring or altering their perception. Something may be going on in their thought processes that may be triggering an entirely different reaction than they're used to. I've had decks that I thought I would like but right away gave me a bad vibe, and other decks that I thought there's no way I'd be able to use, but gave me crystal clear readings. It's not that these decks decided they liked me or didn't like me, it's that some part of my subconscious found the images on the cards to either be relatable to or not, and that's what showed up in my readings. That said, I would say that this is what I believe for new decks. I do believe in psychic phenomena and I think it's entirely possible that psychic residue gets left behind on objects, especially those that are handled frequently, which is why I generally don't get used decks. If I don't know who the person was that was handling the cards before, I usually don't want to deal with the psychic impressions that may be left on the cards. Even then, though, that would still be the result of another person's use of the cards, and not any power that is inherent in the deck itself. JMHO, though.

Vadella	01 May 2005
I view it as my subconscious and/or spirit guide talking through them. I like when they scream at me... that's always fun. :P

mike gorth	01 May 2005
They are just pieces of cardboard and help us unlock our own power. With enough practice and meditation, you will be able to access the akashic records without tarot. (tarot helps you connect with the akashic records) I have a teacher and over the summer she is going to teach me how to not use tarot and do it all on my own. I would still use tarot because I love it.

gilded goat	02 May 2005
Mass produced ones,i would think are,however should you make your own then i feel that is a different matter,then i feel, they become like personal talismans that are a part of you for better or for worse

Ilithiya	02 May 2005
I'm an intuitive and would probably shock the hell out of the newbies for offering up a nonstandard interpretation that fairly goes virtually opposite the oft-dreaded LWB. (I do have several books that I check after the fact to see if there's something I've forgotten.) Mass produced or handcrafted, a Tarot deck is just that to me, nothing else. Humans are an amazingly visually oriented bunch of creatures. What happens when you're driving and you see a stop sign? Do you even really think about your reaction to that all that much? Symbols and iconography are one of the great non-word ways of communication. Restroom signs, stop signs, yield, the circle-and-slash "no" symbol - all of these things are easily interpreted by anyone. And that's the beauty of the Tarot. It draws on a fairly standard language of iconography. And, humans being the marvelous walking brains that we are, will gloss over the unimportant symbols, looking for the things that reinforce the worry, fear, concept, dream, or idea that we've been burying away in the back of our brains and not thinking about. I've been told that Tarot is infested with demons... my favorite response? "Wow! How'd they get all those giant stinky demons trapped in the ink?" It's partially instinctive, partially learned from experience - and no insult meant in any way to the younger set - that's why I read so much better than I did twelve years ago. I can understand the Empress now, having had kids, businesses, and projects. I've met the King of Swords. I've been in a 5 of Wands situation, flanked by the 10 Cups Reversed on the left and the 6 of Swords on the right. It's life experience, not Tarot experience, that's allowed me to read as well as I do (which will only improve with age!!) Illy

Gwynne	02 May 2005
I tell people all the time "they're just cardboard with pictures!" It's the idea that they are mystical that has so many people scared of Tarot! Granted I have days where I feel like my deck hates me, but in the end it's not the deck, it's me having an off day. We all have them. If anyone says they don't have them they're either lying or on really good drugs! I'll let anyone touch my cards (well... I hesitate to let hubby touch them, but then he's bent a card before!) I don't do any special rituals before readings, I just need a deck of cards and a flat surface (although the flat surface can be worked around, I have had someone pull three cards and hold them while I interpreted them.)

Major Tom	02 May 2005
I've got to admit I admire this position even if I don't precise agree. ;) gilded goat wrote: should you make your own then i feel that is a different matter,then i feel, they become like personal talismans that are a part of you for better or for worse There is power in the images and with this I really don't see how can argue with fact. Everyone has thus far agreed with this. Boil the question down and it amounts to the power of the images. Will these images bring about a spiritual journey? Of course they will. ;) For that reason alone we sometimes see discussion on an Ur-Tarot. The source of the imagery. The power behind it all. And really, how spiritual can you get? Naturally, this whole post represents my own opinion and your mileage may vary. :laugh: Anyone is welcome to their own opinion. The deck you connect to doesn't matter - what matters is that you do connect. You will connect better with a deck you create. ;)

The Dreamer	02 May 2005
I think we're talking about three different things here. (At least). - Is there a power in the act of divination, and what is it. - Is there a power in the images found on tarot cards, and what is it. - Is there power involved when physical cards are used, and what is it.

mike gorth	02 May 2005
I find Ilithiya's reading most insightful. It sort of bashes me but I sort of agree with it. It's sort of like to sacraments of the Catholic church. You can't just understand them, you got to live and experience them. I'm the youngest one on here? currently I'm 14 but in a bit 15. I wonder....

Ilithiya	02 May 2005
Mike, I think that you're heads and tails above a lot of people I remember when I was 14-15. Even just the simple act of picking up a deck and learning what it represents in its little microcosms is going to help you advance in understanding. (Does that sound as trite as I think? *eg*) It's tough but stick with it. I tell myself this each day, but still, wish I didn't flop on my face nearly as often as I do. Thanks, too, for not being offended by my phrasing. :) I'm pretty certain that if you go through a deck and try to figure out where it has applied to you already, you'll be pleasantly surprised by how many things you've already experienced. Illy

MercyMe	02 May 2005
The Dreamer wrote: I think we're talking about three different things here. (At least). - Is there a power in the act of divination, and what is it. - Is there a power in the images found on tarot cards, and what is it. - Is there power involved when physical cards are used, and what is it. I believe that props are just props, they hold no power in themselves. If my doggie is curled up on a quilt for a time and I shoo her off then lay the quilt over my legs, I will feel warmth from the quilt. Her "energy" then, is responsible, not the quilt. The quilt would cool quickly if my own body heat didn't keep it warm after that. The "power" in the cards I think comes from me, the reader. I am the one who, upon seeing the images places some meaning behind them based on my own experience and understanding. The client, too, can place meaning on certain images is asked to as well. The power in images lie only in their ability to move us to think and/or feel. What we do with those thoughts and/or feelings results in actions. In a way, the cards are that quilt and I am putting my "heat" into it, transferring it to the client. What the client (or I, if it is a self-reading) do with that initial "heat" is the question. Do I continue to warm the quilt...the reading...with my own energy and actions? Or do I leave it and let it grow cold? The images are only "powerful" to the degree that they resonate with someone. If the person acts on that resonance, they are still the one with the power, not the image itself. ~Mercy

Emeraldgirl	03 May 2005
The cards are what you make them. Physically yes they are just images on cardboard. But everyone has their own mental idea of they are and what they do and how they work. For some it is parroting off what the LWB says and that's it. For some it's all about the symbolism. For some it's intuition etc etc etc and for most (I think) it's a mixture of whatever works for them. I think that the crads are a great way to build your intuition. The reader is in a sense the "power" behind the cards as the reader does just that they read and interperate the cards. But never underestimate the power of the preconceived notion. How many people have freaked when the death card has come up in a spread and how many people have had to reassure them that "no you aren't going to die". If you have a bad experience reading yes it may be difficult to pick up that particualr deck again for a while. Is it mad at you? Probably not. Are you reacting to the previous experience? Most likey. Just my $0.02 :D

Red Emma	03 May 2005
Emeraldgirl wrote: ... Physically yes they are just images on cardboard. :D The thing is, that cardboard is composed of jillions of atoms ... the ink as well. When scientists got microscopes strong enough to penetrate the nucleus of atoms, they expected to find more matter. Instead they discovered that the nucleus -- nuclei -- were pure energy. Further, each atom is connected with every other atom in the world -- universe, maybe. When we read our cards, they tap into this 'quantum field,' and return to us the answers we seek......or maybe an answer we wish we'd never see. In any event if you'd like to read further on this, see Deepak Chopra's book on synchronicity, "the Spontaneous Fulfillment of Desire." Goddess bless

mike gorth	03 May 2005
Oh come on Ilithiya, Just because my normal gender and age group are completely psycho and stupid doesn't mean I'm any better. No you're right. I am! ;) hahaha oh ow ow oh I crack myself up. seriously, everyone tells me I act like I'm really mature and stuff despite the rest of the looney dirtbags that I now have to suffer for for my car insurance. I mean, just because some drunk raging lunatic I get screwed over. Anyway, thanks and there is no reason why I should be offended. It's true. It's all pretty much on experience. But also if our soul has developed it in other lifetimes... :):):):):):)

Sulis	04 May 2005
mike gorth wrote: I'm really mature and stuff despite the rest of the looney dirtbags that I now have to suffer for for my car insurance. I mean, just because some drunk raging lunatic I get screwed over. I think you're doing other teens a bit of a dis-service here. I have a son your age and he certainly isn't a 'looney dirtbag'. We've had many really young members here on ATF too - one of them was a moderator for years. I didn't realise you could get car insurance at 14 either ;) although maybe in America you can :) Back to the subject of this thread - I personally think that the cards are just cardboard with no inherent powers. I think that the power used in a reading comes from the reader. Love Sulis xx

The Are the cards "just cards"??? (Any inherent "power" in them?) thread was originally posted on 26 Apr 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.