Christian + Tarot = How'd you end up here?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Fairawen	26 Apr 2005
I'm a Christian. I do tarot. I know I'm not the only one. I have a weird story for getting here, as I'm sure so do alot of other Christians here. I'm sure we're not a huge percent of the population here at AT, but I'd still love to collect your stories. I need to know I'm not the only person here whose parents are harping on and on about how evil I'm being doing tarot. My Dad actually sent me a link to a page about how to beat being a Satanist!!! *GRRR* So: What's your story, Christian + Tarot. How'd you end up here? No matter how boring. :P ~Fairawen~

Indigo Rose	27 Apr 2005
Hi Fairawen, I have included some links to some threads that have explored this topic, and included my intro statement when I joined AT. I come from a very rigid Christian family on my father's side. I have heard all of the arguments against Tarot; they don't wash. We as Christians are NOT, I REPEAT NOT under the Levitical Laws and Old Testaments Laws....Jesus Christ fulfilled the law and we are under HIS GRACE! :) How we read Tarot, how we approach it, and how we conduct ourselves are the true test of our faith. Jesus stated the 2 greatest commandments(Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul; and love your neighbor as yourself....that is our mission. People misunderstand and misuse scripture on the regular; some innocently, some not. You have to find your own path, but remember you are FREE IN CHRIST! Respectfully agree to disagree with your family, if that is where the spirit leads you. Listen to your inner voice. I wish I had listened. I started Tarot when I was 17, then gave it up because of all the pressure. I would come back to it 2 times before making MY OWN choice, based on my faith. Just remember that with other Christians, including your parents, they may not be able to handle it; their faith may just not allow them to comprehend your Tarot journey. That's ok, just keep that between you and God, and those who are able to handle. My husband is a minister in the Church of Christ, which are some of the most rigid and dogmatic churches around. However, he supports my Tarot path and is very liberal. He is ever preaching from the pulpit to attempt to enlighten people and free them from their dogma, but this has to be done carefully. Remember the parable about putting new wine in old wine skins.....can't do it because the skins will burst. That story lets us know that some folks can't handle this much enlightenment; so we lovingly do our thing and show them kindness along our path. I just don't allow people to have access to that part of my life; only those who are on the same page about it. With all this said, I hope the links help. I know there are a lot more threads here on this topic as there are plenty of Christians here who have come out of the shadows. Hang in there and follow your heart. The Lord will guide you. Blessings, Indigo Rose :) http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=14175&highlight=christian+tarot http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=34254&highlight=christian+tarot http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=19174 http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=24307

Cerulean	27 Apr 2005
from Ireland named Mark Patrick Hederman. I post the information here because if one is Christian and into tarot, his take might be of interest to you. He only uses the Grimaud Marseilles and the 22 trumps as part of meditative Christian allegory. If one is interested from a very Catholic point of view--note that in his book, there is very good editing. The implication is it is friendly to Christian or ecumenical spiritual seekers. The book on first read seems so. In the lecture and in the poster promo at the Mercy Center in Burlingame where he lectured, a more conservative view surfaces. The nature of his meditative studies in the tarot have more to deal with the spiritual Christian allegories in a friendly and safe way to Catholic audiences. There is nothing wrong with his attraction or interpretation or his explanation in terms of what works for him. I'll post a link to an article about him, if one is interested in Tarot Books and Media. Regards, Cerulean

Fairawen	27 Apr 2005
Glad to hear from another Christian at last! :P Been feeling dispirited, because my folks and me got in a fight over it. *sigh* I agree with you that we aren't under Levitical Laws (I mean... yuck. Those laws were certainly not meant for this day and age!) but the Old Testament Laws should just kinda fall in naturally. I mean, they just sortof say basic things that we all know we shouldn't do anyway. No adultry, no killing, no stealing, ect. The basics. I saw someone mention the other day abot how the apostles would, "Cast lots" for things. They cast lots to decide on a new apostle, and various other things. My Dad says that casting lots isn't like tarot, it's based on chance. Why would they put their hope in chance for the decision on a new apostle?!? That makes no sense. I think they were a form of "divination". I believe the bible says no divination, but then does ( in the New Testament) things that ARE divination in the world's eyes today. I believe the meaning of the word divination was ALOT different back then. I believe it meant to contact spirits that were not of God, like demons and such. Lots of words have gone through this sort of change... like the word geek. :P Geeks are happy to be called such these days... go figure... "Remember the parable about putting new wine in old wine skins.....can't do it because the skins will burst." *LOL* Do I ever agree with this statement. Try telling some close-minded Christians that you're into Harry Potter and they'll freak. It's actually sort of amusing to watch their faces go all purple... :P j/k Thanks for the links, I've alreaqdy begun looking them over. Glad that you shared your tale!!! Ok... whose next? ~Fairawen~

Hermgirl	27 Apr 2005
I am very heartened to hear about Christians getting into Tarot. I believe that in the days of the early Golden Dawn, (an occult organization with a lot of members that went on to create Tarot decks.) a lot of the members were Christians as well, and I think there was a lot more acceptance of this approach in those days (late 1800s - early 1900s) than there is now. I also believe that with things like Christo-Pagans and such that we are seeing more and more of in various places online, there may be a time coming when this kind of thing is more acceptible again. Also, Cerulean, I was glad to hear that you were still able to go to that Mercy Center thing even though I couldn't.

smokey	27 Apr 2005
Verry well said, Indigo Rose! Bravo!..(just my 2 cents)..

mike gorth	27 Apr 2005
I'll get back to you on this question tonight. I have a really long story and it's sort of wierd and I'm glad I have a chance to spill. I'm in my free period now with 20 min left and that's way too little time. Mike Gorth

MercyMe	27 Apr 2005
Since becoming a Christian I have almost always been a Christian + something-that-isn't-normally-accepted. I've lived my life as a walking oxymoron. It keeps people guessing. :D My family was Protestant, Episcopalians precisely, but it wasn't a real high Episcopal church, so skipped the incense and Latin. But I was raised with the Nicene Creed, the Eucharist taken kneeling at the altar from one cup, and with hymns and stained glass. I still find comfort in those things, though my path has meandered in a different direction. I've been interested in the "supernatural" as long as I can remember. Real ghost stories and psychic phenomenon, Ouija, automatic writing, astral projection, seances, and so forth were all part of my teenage searching. I believed in reincarnation/past lives, psychic abilities (though I didn't think I had any), and tarot. But I dabbled. I didn't really learn any one thing, just a mishmash of many things. At 18 I converted to Islam but I never abandoned my metaphysical beliefs. At 24 I left Islam behind and got my first tarot reading. It was eerily accurate. Shortly after that, though, I became a born again Christian through a Messianic Jewish congregation. I spent the next 6 years as an increasingly fundamentalist conservative Christian. One of the experiences in my life, a pivotal one, was when I was forced to flee my ex-husband who had battered and abused me throughout our 7 year marriage. I truly felt the hand of God leading me and the voice of God directing me throughout that time. I was so grateful for God's deliverance from my captor that I think I dedicated my life to God in a way that I thought would atone for the years of "sin" -- even though I understood that Jesus already took care of that in the BIG way, I felt my sanctification was my own responsibility and that I needed to put on those goody-goody shoes to prove how much I loved God. Sigh. I was also scared as hell. I never wanted anything bad to happen to me or my children ever again. I was afraid that since I apparently made a very bad life decision in marrying that abuser, I should never be trusted with any major life decision again. So if I just followed the Bible, we'll be safe. I searched the Scriptures, I took them literally, I did my level best to do what it said. I remarried and became a "keeper at home" who wore ankle length dresses and long hair and no makeup and cooked from scratch. I spanked my kids cooly with a rod. I submitted to my husband. I became someone I wasn't, someone I was never meant to be, and eventually I sunk into a life-threatening depression. Out of that darkness I saw the light. I saw grace. I slid headlong into grace and mercy and freedom. I threw legalism out the window. I reclaimed my identity. I stopped spanking my children. I left our nondenominational Bible-oriented fundamentalist church because their theology made me feel like tearing my hair out every time I sat in a service. I began to pick up the pieces of my self and my life that I had abandoned 6 years before. I went back to feminism (in some ways I had never left it), I went back to metaphysical pursuits, I went back to wearing jeans and shorts, the only submission that ever happens between my husband and I is mutual or him to me, and I reclaimed my more colorful (*ahem*) language. ;) All that began -- it was a process, of course -- about 10 years ago. Today I am a Christian + Feminist, Christian + Tarot Reader, Christian + Pagan, and whatever else someone has deemed not compatible with Christianity, I've probably incorporated it in some way. :) See, there is a myth that if one stays inside the box labeled "Christian" it's safe there. NO, it isn't. Christians seriously harm and damage each other all the time. In fact, it can be *more* dangerous in that assumption because thinking all is safe in that box leads folks to put their guards down, to trust way too easily and too deeply and so are readily victimized by various teachings, theologies, doctrines, people, control-freaks, and abusers. God doesn't confine Godself to that box, why should we? I am free to examine and use the contents of other boxes. And who put that label on there anyway? Is it God that does that? No, it's us. Humans do that. "For the earth is the Lord's and all that is therein!" It all belongs to God. So enjoy the freedom to touch, taste, run, dance, study, belong, smell, see. Just be careful...there are always dangers no matter what "box" you're exploring. That's just the nature of life. So I'm free now. Halellujah! :D It's for freedom Christ died...so who wants to put a yoke of bondage on you now? Many Christians would if they had their druthers. Resist it. Stay free. ~Mercy

Ankou	27 Apr 2005
I grew up in the Bible belt, my father was a pastor, my mother a christian school teacher ( actually they both still are). When they heard I had bought a tarot deck I told them I just liked the pictures... Fluffed my way out of a fight. However I firmly believe that meditation is a practice for all people of every faith. Christ himself meditated regulary and the Bible tells us over and over to meditate and pray. Tarot is simply a vehicle for meditation. What you meditate on is up to you.

Fairawen	27 Apr 2005
So happy to hear all of your stories. You guys sure have some interesting ones! MercyMe - I know how you feel with the "Spilling of guts" thing. *LOL* I've been keeping my weirdness inside, and I've been slowly trying to spill my guts throughout various threads. :) Mike - Come soon! Wishing to hear your long and weird story! Ok, my turn for the spilling of guts. I'm a Christian. Or... sortof. Let's try and put it in nice terms for you all: You know how, in Star Wars, the opposite of a Jedi (a Sith) gets the red lightsaber? Let's just say I was off looking for the red lightsaber, and I'd do anything to get my hands on one. And I thought tarot was my answer. After all, all the Christian folks I had spoken to has said it was a tool of the Devil, so here was my chance to get exactly what I wanted! Fortunatly, I was let down. Tarot is not a "tool of evil", as I so hoped it was. I was only let down for a little though, because I realized that it's really based on introspection. My favorite sport! So, one night about two years ago, roughly at 2AM, I snuck downstairs, grabbed scissors, crayons, and cardpaper, then snuck back up to my room. Worked for an hour and a half, coloring the best I could (my extent of art is stick figures) and, at about 3AM, my deck was finished. I had made my own deck! How accomplished I felt. I then went to a well know tarot learning site, www.learntarot.com , and went through the lessons all in that night. I don't know how late it was when I went to sleep, but did I feel good! I may not have been doing something "evil" (as cliche as the word sounds these days) but I was mighty happy. I ( as hard as it was for me to believe, and contrary to what everyone had told me) realized that, the closer I drew to tarot, the closer I drew to God. It wasn't that I was focused on Him during any of my readings, but my readings actually pointed me back on the right path! Within the next few days, and monthes, I started doing readings for myself. Imagine how surprised I was when it actually worked! How many people with the kind of backround I have actually think that a bunch of homemade, crayon colored pieces of paper were going to be accurate? Not many. Long story short: I started carrying my deck around with me in my backpack, trying to get the feel of them and such. A mistake. While me and my sister played a rousing game of Chase the Guy (my future boyfriend actually) he managed to get my bag off of me. He made me tell him that I had th cards, and he was kinda stunned. He's not someone that would reject me just for tarot, but I could tell and still can that he wasn't exactly thrilled. That night, my sister found out and gave me a good talking to. A few monthes after that, my tarot cards went missing from my drawer. In it's place, wrapped in the white scarf I always wrapped my cards in, was my bible. Ooooh, I knew it had to be my sister. She had promised me that she wouldn't tell my parents, but she hadn't promised she wouldn't do anything to my cards. A week or so later, my Dad came up to me and reminded me about what HE had found in my drawer. So, it had been my Dad. That deck is still missing to this day. I spent a little less then a year not thinking about tarot anymore, though I had printed out the references to each card from learningtarot, and the pile of papers was lying dormant under my bed. I'm not sure what prompted me to get back into tarot, but I put all the papers in a folder and, scissors, paper, and crayons on hand, I set out on making yet another deck. It took longer then it had last time, but I made a new deck. I've been practicing for a few monthes, when I found AT. And I went into super-tarot-mode. I've gotten more practice and learned more in a few weeks then I have the monthes I had done it only for myself. Still now I can't say that I'm fully a Christian. I'm still far too many steps back. But I'm closer then I was before. Funny, eventually I'll be able to use tarot as a link to me and getting back to God. How many people can say that? What's hilarious is this: my parents have, just recently, given me a chance to prove myself. If I can show them that tarot isn't evil, then maybe they'll let me continue. Personally, I've figured out this is just there way of trying to drill my ideas of tarot out of me. Instead of me lecturing them, they want to lecture to me. They want me to try and prove it, so I can, in turn, disprove myself. I know this because they don't try to listen to what I say, they only condradict it. *sigh* I've tried telling them my little tale of mine, but they're still far too touchy on the subject of my growing away from God. :P And that's my Christian+Tarot story. Figured since all you guys was here, I'd do it to. *Phew* I feel better... ~Fairawen~

Reed	27 Apr 2005
I'm Baptist. My father (he died last year) was the paster of a church. I've always had an interest in the occult, including psychics and tarot. Faith is a big part of the Christian belief system, so I kind of felt as though I was looking over God's shoulder. My sister is the only one in my family who knows about my interests. I would have these dreams about dead family friends who would talk to me. When I lived in my parents' house and had these dreams, I'd strain to hear what they were saying, then remember that they were dead and wake up. Now that I'm in my own place, I can hear them in my dreams. In fact, one revealed herself as my guide/guardian angel. Anyway, I bought some tarot cards when I was in my early thirties (I'm 41), but lost my nerve and got rid of them. But I still had the interest. I recently survived breast cancer and decided that life is too short to worry about what others think. After my surgery I bought a Morgan Greer deck and found www.learntarot.com and you wonderful people here at AT. I'm also taking a tarot class. The rest of my family still doesn't know, but we'll see what happens. Reed

Indigo Rose	27 Apr 2005
(((MercyMe))) SO glad you made it out SAFE!!! MercyMe wrote: Since becoming a Christian I have almost always been a Christian + something-that-isn't-normally-accepted. I've lived my life as a walking oxymoron.:D :) Same here, LOL! :) MercyMe wrote: See, there is a myth that if one stays inside the box labeled "Christian" it's safe there. NO, it isn't. Christians seriously harm and damage each other all the time. In fact, it can be *more* dangerous in that assumption because thinking all is safe in that box leads folks to put their guards down, to trust way too easily and too deeply and so are readily victimized by various teachings, theologies, doctrines, people, control-freaks, and abusers. AMEN!!!! MercyMe wrote: God doesn't confine Godself to that box, why should we? I am free to examine and use the contents of other boxes. And who put that label on there anyway? Is it God that does that? No, it's us. Humans do that. "For the earth is the Lord's and all that is therein!" It all belongs to God. So enjoy the freedom to touch, taste, run, dance, study, belong, smell, see. Just be careful...there are always dangers no matter what "box" you're exploring. That's just the nature of life. I love your box analogy! AMEN AGAIN!! MercyMe wrote: So I'm free now. Halellujah! :D It's for freedom Christ died...so who wants to put a yoke of bondage on you now? Many Christians would if they had their druthers. Resist it. Stay free. ~Mercy Yes, AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN!!

MercyMe	27 Apr 2005
Fairawen, You may have a better go at it if you ask your parents what they are afraid of regarding tarot cards and address only their concerns rather than try and build a case for tarot. Most conservative Christians are schooled under the notion that "even the devil comes dressed as an angel of light" therefore if you try to present all the positive aspects of tarot they will likely dismiss most of that as deception. Compare the pictures of tarot to any other picture, like the ones framed and hung on the walls of your home. Show how certain pictoral images resonate with people in different ways and stimulate thoughts and feelings based on one's own experiences and perspective. Talk about archetypes and how many of the images in tarot (at least the RWS versions) are Christian based and how they tell an allegorical story reminiscent of John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress, a Christian classic. Ask them if God only speaks to them from the pages of the Bible or does God use other means. What does it mean to them that creation itself testifies to the truth of God and that if no one would open their mouths to speak it the very rocks would cry out? Have they never felt the Holy Spirit impress something upon them through a novel, a song, a picture, another person? God can use those pictures in a tarot deck just as well. Assure them the cards have no spirit in and of themselves. They are cardboard and ink. If we assign spirits to such things, we may as well see demons in everything. Do they own candles? Whoops! Better toss them out, as they can be used for pagan purposes, witchcraft, divination. Heck, throw out all decks of cards, playing cards, as well. And while you're at it, don't ever use toothpicks,;) they're a tool of the devil as well. You know what the greatest tool of the devil is? Fear. But "Perfect love casts out all fear." If Christians were confident in God's love for them, they would have no need to fear anything formerly "sacrificed to idols." I think you should try not to be put on the defensive. Instead of you having to prove what's right about tarot, make them prove to you what is wrong about it. ~Mercy

MercyMe	27 Apr 2005
Thank you Indigo Rose {{{}}}. It really has been a wild ride and I've finally come to the place where I no longer regret having gone down those roads. I learned so very, very much in a real and experiential way. I have been able to be a "bridge person" as well, helping others to cross over from bondage to freedom because I've been there, too. So, it's all good. ~Mercy

Indigo Rose	27 Apr 2005
MercyMe wrote: ....See, there is a myth that if one stays inside the box labeled "Christian" it's safe there. NO, it isn't. Christians seriously harm and damage each other all the time. In fact, it can be *more* dangerous in that assumption because thinking all is safe in that box leads folks to put their guards down, to trust way too easily and too deeply and so are readily victimized by various teachings, theologies, doctrines, people, control-freaks, and abusers. ~Mercy I posted an experience I had when I was 18 in another thread. http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=40218 Here is an example of control and abuse in the hands of Christians.... Indigo Rose wrote: Yes, and this is another painful event for me. When I was 18, I was taken to someone who claimed to be an "exorcist" by my aunt who believed I was possessed with evil spirits because she found out I was sexually active. She took me to him to have me "tested" for demon spirits and exorcised of them. It was a shaming and horrifying experience where I was kept locked in a basement for greater than 6 hours by a man and his wife until I cracked up and became completely given over to this ceremony. He began preaching at me and yelling at the demons to come forth, all the while his wife read from the Bible and sang hymns, providng this entrancing background to his rantings. I cried and said there are no demons. I told them that it was only me there, just me. He told me I was hiding them and would not let them go. After hours of this routine, I became disoriented and exhausted. This kept on and on, and I kept crying with no mercy being shown. I finally had a nervous breakdown. I felt my spirit go into hiding inside my body. It was as if I was in the background and could see layers or dimensions within my own body. I began speaking to them in the manner they had envoked. I felt powerless, almost as if I was in fact possessed. I had to tell them what they wanted to hear, or I would not be released. I believe that is why my mind gave over to this delusion. I was brainwashed and hypnotized. I survived and made it out, but will never allow myself to go through anything like that again. Sensitive minds are easy targets for religious nuts.Indigo Rose :)

Lady Mary	27 Apr 2005
All of this is really HARD to understand here in Europe. I can only speak for myself of course, but I've never heard about such objections against Tarot (and I live in a country where the majority is still Catholic). Everybody here would stare at you in utter disbelief if you said that Tarot-cards were somehow "evil" and anti-Christian. They would think of such people as "religious extremists". Most people here would just consider Tarot a nice and interesting hobby, but not have any strong (positive or negative) feelings regarding Tarot.

Indigo Rose	27 Apr 2005
MercyMe wrote: Thank you Indigo Rose {{{}}}. It really has been a wild ride and I've finally come to the place where I no longer regret having gone down those roads. I learned so very, very much in a real and experiential way. I have been able to be a "bridge person" as well, helping others to cross over from bondage to freedom because I've been there, too. So, it's all good. ~Mercy Thank GOD for you and your enlightenment. I too feel like a "bridge person". MercyMe wrote: Fairawen, .... Most conservative Christians are schooled under the notion that "even the devil comes dressed as an angel of light" therefore if you try to present all the positive aspects of tarot they will likely dismiss most of that as deception. Exactly! This is why it is so difficult to reach people who are locked into the dogma; they see you as a deceived person needing prayer. They will NOT HEAR YOU!! I know, because I too have been there. MercyMe wrote: ...You know what the greatest tool of the devil is? Fear. But "Perfect love casts out all fear."...I think you should try not to be put on the defensive. Instead of you having to prove what's right about tarot, make them prove to you what is wrong about it. ~Mercy Right Again!! I have heard everything called the "devil" by my family. In fact, back in the 80's my aunt informed me that unicorns and rainbows were of the devil because they were symbols of the "New Age" movement, which was really just the devil's way to steal Christians and usher in the anti-Christ. My heart is deeply saddened by the closed boxes that many in my family and in the church live in; some are afraid to look at or listen to anything that world has to offer. I am thankful for finally being free. My hope is that I, like MercyMe said, can be a bridge person and bring more Christians into their freedom in Christ. For now, I am just trying to live in love and be patient with their narrow beliefs. Blessings, Indigo Rose :)

MercyMe	27 Apr 2005
Indigo Rose, what a horrific experience! :O How traumatic and abusive! Sadly, I've known people like that couple, too. What they did could have fractured your sanity, shattered your identity, induced psychosis...GAH! What is WRONG with people??? ~Mercy

Indigo Rose	27 Apr 2005
Lady Mary wrote: All of this is really HARD to understand here in Europe. I can only speak for myself of course, but I've never heard about such objections against Tarot (and I live in a country where the majority is still Catholic). Everybody here would stare at you in utter disbelief if you said that Tarot-cards were somehow "evil" and anti-Christian. They would think of such people as "religious extremists". Most people here would just consider Tarot a nice and interesting hobby, but not have any strong (positive or negative) feelings regarding Tarot. Lady Mary, It is part of our history. We are a nation of religious extremists. Many American Christians pride themselves on the fact that our founding fathers were Protestant Christians who broke from Europe and Catholicism, to find their freedom. The only thing is they traded one set of problems for another. The freedoms we gained were actually quickly taken by the Puritans. We have and continue to be under a blanket of religious oppression and extremism. Blessings, Indigo Rose:)

Indigo Rose	27 Apr 2005
MercyMe wrote: Indigo Rose, what a horrific experience! :O How traumatic and abusive! Sadly, I've known people like that couple, too. What they did could have fractured your sanity, shattered your identity, induced psychosis...GAH! What is WRONG with people??? ~Mercy It took many years before I understood what happened to me. My aunt was so pleased by their report that I had had demons and was exorcised of them, that it gave me the approval I needed; so in a way that approval got me through it at first. However, as passion rose up in my body(the most natural thing in the world) I wondered if I was becoming possessed again. It was very confusing to me because I thought there was something wrong with me. I really believed I was lost because of sensuality. However, I married at 19 and that made it OK then to have desire and a sexual life. Funny, I doubt I would have married my ex at that time in my life if I didn't believe it would save me from the demon of sensuality. THANK GOD I am free. The Lord gets the credit for allowing me to break free from all that mess and find Him waiting with open arms to love me "JUST AS I AM"; after all He made me....sensuality and all. Blessings, Indigo Rose :)

MercyMe	27 Apr 2005
Lady Mary, Europe has a much longer history with Christianity than does the United States. When Europe was in the throes of the Inquisition, this land was unknown to Europeans. The original nations here were, of course, not Christian. Christianity was introduced here with the first settlers just a few hundred years ago. I'd chalk it up to a kind of national spiritual immaturity. You all look over the Atlantic and yawn, "Been there, done that, I DO wish you'd grow up!" Heh. I have noticed that the older the church, the more patience it tends to have with people and trends. Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopal all seem to approach these things with a broader, long-term (and I mean centuries here) view, whereas the newer denominations think everything matters right here right now, must fix it immediately, dire consequences will occur if we don't! Impatient youth! LOL ~Mercy

Indigo Rose	27 Apr 2005
Why do so many of us who are Christians end up here on this Tarot journey? We stop and start, and eventually find ourselves here to stay. Does anyone else feel called to this Tarot journey? I do. I actually believe this, among other things was a calling. When I read Fairawen's beautiful story about making her own Tarot cards, that warms my heart. Here is this bright and lovely soul finding her connection to Tarot; creating her own images that link her to the mysteries of the universe. It also saddens me to hear of the oppression she and others here are going through. It seems, as MercyMe has stated, FEAR is the greatest tool of the devil. Many well meaning and faithful Christians are stumbling around in the darkness, not even aware that they are covering the light by living in this narrow little box of religious doctrine and dogma; all made by man, not GOD! Glad to be out of the box and basking in His light! Blessings and Love to all, Indigo Rose :)

Imagemaker	27 Apr 2005
Quote: this narrow little box of religious doctrine and dogma; all made by man, not GOD! The newest book by Neale Patrick Walsch is called Tomorrow's God. Whether you accept that he's dialoguing with God or not, in this book God says over and over that our understanding of Him needs to expand beyond those old fearful doctrines. That they weren't His idea and that he wishes people would figure out how destructive they are. Indeed!

mike gorth	27 Apr 2005
Okay, Well I was raised Lutheran and over the past summer I converted to buddhism for a while. Before that I was atheist and I thought buddhism would put a better spin on it since they don't believe in God either. I then was talking to my mom's friend about tarot and we talked about relligion. I sort of got the feeling God exists and am now a true believer. I probably pray at least once a day. My Mom who thought I would go to Hell since I converted to atheism was so glad to hear that I'm now Christian. She really doesn't believe in Tarot even though I just predicted her last week and most of it was correct she blew it off. I know only one person at school and when I tried to tell others, they thought I was psycho and some thought that I was trying to summon the dead by showing them how to summon your own energy. That is my life of tarot and Christianity in a nutshell.

waya	27 Apr 2005
Neither of my parents will let me read for them either. My mom is this huge fundamental Christian (and she's probably one of the more liberal people from her church). She's NOT HAPPY about me reading the cards but as I'm on my own now, there's nothing she can do about it. She calls them "Terror Cards". Sheesh.

Fairawen	27 Apr 2005
This thread is getting loooong! NEAT! I haven't gotten a chance to read all of what you folks have written yet, but I will in a little. Gotta go watch Lost... new episode... yes, I'm addicted... ~Fairawen~

Ankou	27 Apr 2005
Hello lovelies, Just thought I'd share a discovery. Searching for decks in an online auction I found a deck called "The Jesus Deck". The post implies that it was produced as a way of teaching Christianity thru a tarot style deck. Haven't looked up any real background on it but I thought veiwers in this thread might find it interesting. Love ad Light.

Ankou	27 Apr 2005
Sorry, I'm new here. I see while looking for more info an this particular deck that it is listed in the AT cataloge also...

Fairawen	27 Apr 2005
Yup. :) Thinking of getting it. Haven't actually seen the images yet though, so it' still up in the air... we'll se, eh? ~Fairawen~

Fullmoonsinger	27 Apr 2005
Lady Mary wrote: All of this is really HARD to understand here in Europe. I can only speak for myself of course, but I've never heard about such objections against Tarot (and I live in a country where the majority is still Catholic). Everybody here would stare at you in utter disbelief if you said that Tarot-cards were somehow "evil" and anti-Christian. They would think of such people as "religious extremists". Most people here would just consider Tarot a nice and interesting hobby, but not have any strong (positive or negative) feelings regarding Tarot. In the United States, we are taught that our country was settled by people who came here from England for religious freedom. The Puritans actually left England and went to the Netherlands. The Dutch are very tolerant people. The Puritans couldn't stand all the tolerance, and the Dutch wouldn't let them punish people, so THEN they came to the U.S. where they could enforce all their prohibitions. My sister is so "Christian" that she averts her eyes from my Tarot decks, even ones like the Housewives! We love each other anyway. MoonSinger

Mesara	28 Apr 2005
Fairawen- Maybe show your parents this website? Let them read through some threads, let them read your posts specifically and maybe they will see that you are not in the clutches of the devil, that instead you are part of a very moral and ethically driven community which comes together in it's common interest of spiritual enlightenment.. I mean, no satanists here, right?? Just don't show them the posts containing the }) Fascinating stories, all of you.. Especially the preacher's wife among us. How splendid!!

jmd	28 Apr 2005
I am still astounded when I read of personal stories such as the one Reed and others present on these boards and other places, and simply fail to understand the kind of Christianity at play in some people's lives. I realise it exists, as there are likewise similar groups in the very state I live in, but they again seem like a strange and remote phenomena.

Fairawen	28 Apr 2005
Lady Mary wrote: All of this is really HARD to understand here in Europe. I can only speak for myself of course, but I've never heard about such objections against Tarot (and I live in a country where the majority is still Catholic). Everybody here would stare at you in utter disbelief if you said that Tarot-cards were somehow "evil" and anti-Christian. They would think of such people as "religious extremists". Most people here would just consider Tarot a nice and interesting hobby, but not have any strong (positive or negative) feelings regarding Tarot. That's it. The last straw. I'm packing my bags, and I'M MOVING TO EUROPE!!!! *lol* As soon as I'm old enough to drive anyway... :P ~Fairawen~ Mesera- Ah... well, they'd probably just find everything pagen on the site and say, "See?!? It's Pagen!" Actually, do you want to know what my Dad said the other day, when he saw that I was on AT? It was quite mean actually. "All of those people on that site are all lead by the devil, and they're trying to twist your mind to thinking that it's good! Just like drug addicts tell other drug addicts that it's fun! Or good! You're all twisted, and I won't have that deck in my house because you're easily minipulated!" *sigh* My Dad doesn't normally talk like that, just so you know. ~Fairawen~

Oriana	28 Apr 2005
I'm what I'd call "semi-Christian" - my beliefs and practices, at least the important ones, would probably fit in a number of major religions. ("Be excellent to each other" actually covers most of it...) Protestant Christianity happens to be the prevalant religion in my area, and the one that I was raised in. Lady Mary wrote: All of this is really HARD to understand here in Europe. I can only speak for myself of course, but I've never heard about such objections against Tarot I can second that... While intellectually of course I realise religious-based intolerance exists in many parts of the world, some part of me still always finds it hard to believe the attitudes of "Christians" that I hear reported (the same goes for other religions). I must be lucky (I feel especially lucky reading through some other people's experiences in this thread) as I have never personally encountered it, that I can recall. Nobody has ever tried to convince me that "Tarot is the devil's work!", or any such thing - any negative reactions I get are all along the line of "Tarot, you don't actually believe in that rubbish do you? How silly", and those are equally likely to come from the religious and non-religious alike. In fact I could name several other Christians I know who have interest in esoteric subjects such as Tarot... My mother has always been interested in Astrology mainly, but to a lesser degree also several other things that some sects of the Church might frown on; the first deck of Tarot cards I ever encountered, as a teenager, was one she had bought, though she apparently didn't develop sufficient interest to learn how to read with them. But I suppose my interest probably exists because of her openmindedness on all these things (although, she still doesn't understand why I need more than one deck - "Aren't they all the same? Why waste money buying more?" *sigh*). I actually have been looking for a "Christian-compatible" deck; not necessarily one designed to be aimed at Christians, but one that isn't pagan/wiccan/mythology-based, as so many are. Not that there's anything wrong with those decks (several of them are on my "wanted" list, too!), I'd just really like one that's more in tune with my own perspective. I'm currently in the process of ordering the gorgeous Golden Tarot - not really a religious deck, but from what I've seen of the art, it may have the right sort of "feel" I've been looking for... ...To me, doing a Tarot spread asking for guidance, isn't really much different in principle than a prayer to ask for guidance. Guidance on current situations in my life is the main thing that I use Tarot for. After some years where religion barely featured in my life at all, I've been more and more returning to being a "proper", churchgoing, praying (but not religiously intolerant!) Christian again for quite a while now. And I don't see Tarot as conflicting with this in the slightest; in fact, I think it gives the use of Tarot cards if anything even deeper meaning than it did before. I think it quite possible for Tarot and Christianity to complement each other, and that's what I hope to achieve. As for the "fortune telling" aspect of it, which seems to be cited as the main reason why it is "wrong" (trying to determine the future = bad, interfering in God's domain, or something; I never really understood the logic) - I tend to view that as being more or less on a par with weather forecasting. :) "This is the current situation, and the future likely to arise out of these circumstances is blah." I wonder how many Christians who believe that Tarot is evil, also believe that weather forecasting is evil? Good luck with enlarging your family's point of view, Fairawen. :) Oriana

MercyMe	28 Apr 2005
Fairawen wrote: *sigh* My Dad doesn't normally talk like that, just so you know. Sigh, indeed. Your dad is scared. Really scared. And not just of tarot. Of you growing up and making your own decisions, decisions that he doesn't like. You are your own person and you're coming into your own and, well, as your dad, that frightens him. He's losing his little girl, he's afraid he'll lose YOU, he's afraid you'll get hurt if he's not there controlling your choices. He's scared of more than just tarot, but what this choice of yours represents. Tell him you love him anyway. {{}} ~Mercy

MercyMe	28 Apr 2005
Here's a deck I'm really interested in and some of you here might be as well: Master Tarot Deck http://www.astroamerica.com/t-master.html ~Mercy

Fairawen	28 Apr 2005
Oriana wrote: ...To me, doing a Tarot spread asking for guidance, isn't really much different in principle than a prayer to ask for guidance. Funny that you should bring that up! I tried to tell my family that, and they simply contradicted me by saying, "Then what do you need the cards for if they're just like praying? Why don't you PRAY instead of playing with these evil cards?" Then I usually break down at that point, feeling that I'll never get through to them... *sigh* MercyMe- *lol* Thanks Mercy, I'll certainly keep that in mind. I myself never being a parent, well, it's hard for me to understand. And I don't say that all the time. :) Still gotta go back and read your guys stories... as far as I've heard there are some difficult journeys that have bee taken by a few of you. Well, at least you've made it this far, right? :) Gotta go and read 'em not that I'm back... ~Fairawen~

MercyMe	28 Apr 2005
Fairawen wrote: Funny that you should bring that up! I tried to tell my family that, and they simply contradicted me by saying, "Then what do you need the cards for if they're just like praying? Why don't you PRAY instead of playing with these evil cards?" Then I usually break down at that point, feeling that I'll never get through to them... *sigh* I've gotten that response from Christians, "Then why do you NEED the cards?" My response to them has been: "I don't. I mean, I don't need them any more or less than you need that Christian book you're reading for insight and self-help or that CD that uplifts you or chatting with a friend over a cup of coffee. All those are avenues through which God can speak to us and so are these cards. I don't NEED them, but I have found them to be a very valuable tool in keeping that line of communication flowing between myself and God." I mean, really. Tarot certainly isn't necessary to my faith, but it sure can be a helpful tool in God's hands, you know? ~Mercy

Junia	28 Apr 2005
There are lots of Christian based decks out there (like the one mentioned by MercyMe) and a few Christian threads. Although I was raised LDS (Mormon and no it doesn't mean the same thing as LSD [although sometimes i still have religion flashbacks]), I was lucky. My Mom and her sister had a reader (she was a psychic reader) that they went to often in their early 20's while raising their broods of brats. Pearl helped them immensely. She read with a regular deck of playing cards no Tarot Cards. I have replied in the other Christian Threads. I am sorry for your situation. I have heard from others here in the Mormon Mecca that they just tell their church leaders that their abilities are a gift from God. Do you think that your folks might be willing to accept that? Just tell them, "Hey the good tree drops the good fruit. I'll turn out okay because you both love me." Also, we have a psychiatrist on staff in the "psych" ward who uses a RW to help in treatment of his patients. It is a unique reading he has developed especially for his profession. There are quite a number of learned folk here at Aecletic (come on all you BS, BA, MS, MA or Doctorates folks). Come out, come out where ever you are! Not to mention those of us who graduated from, "Hard Knocks Academy." Love and Lucky Cups of Three (for the three of you)!

Fairawen	28 Apr 2005
Yeah! Those of you who are psychiatrists, notify me! Because, *sigh* when I told my parents that alot of psychiatrists use tarot cards in their meetings or whatnot. This is what they said: "Yeah right. No psychiatrist in their right mind would tarot." ARGH! You think they would at least consent to the fact that I know for about tarot then they do, but they won't even admit that. *sigh* ~Fairawen~

waya	28 Apr 2005
Oriana wrote: ... ("Be excellent to each other" actually covers most of it...) ... Don't forget, "Party on, dudes!" ;)

waya	28 Apr 2005
Junia wrote: ... Also, we have a psychiatrist on staff in the "psych" ward who uses a RW to help in treatment of his patients. It is a unique reading he has developed especially for his profession.... That's interesting. I was in the hospital a couple months ago (this was after my bf left me and I was feeling really suicidal; my mom talked me into going in--I'm not some kind of psycho-freak or anything, promise!). My shrink there told me I could have my cards as long as I kept them in my room and didn't do any readings for anyone else. Then I was transferred to another hospital where I wasn't allowed to have my cards at all (They said having Tarot cards was against hospital policy...riiiiighhht). They searched all my stuff, then gave me my bag of clothes; everything else was locked up. (Along with all my Wicca books, that they refused to give back to me my whole stay there, even though everyone else got to have their Bibles with them from day one *grrr* I was very vocal about THAT injustice--so they labeled me as being hyper-religious--told me I didn't have a chance if I took it to court--I told 'em I didn't have to have my books to practice Wicca, they couldn't keep me from doing rituals, casting spells, etc., but it wasn't right for them to discriminate against my religion--they said since it wasn't mainstream, I couldn't have access to it--*grrr*) So anyway, when I got my clothes back, there in the bag was my Tarot cards!!! Somehow they "accidentally" (I think it was meant that I have them, though) ended up with my stuff. I wrapped them up in a shirt and hid them in the back of my drawer. Had 'em the whole time there. *grin* And if my mom ever tries talking me into going in again, I think I'll have her head examined.

Fairawen	28 Apr 2005
Ek! Poor waya! Come on, I mean... alot of girls kinda feel just a *tad* suicidal after a breakup. I mean, you just lost your dude. But... taking you away from your tarot cards?!? That's just stupid. I mean... if anything, they'd help you get better. *sigh* How very disappointing... still, they ended up in your bag, didn't they? *Muahahah* ~Fairawen~

bodhran	28 Apr 2005
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/2282/tarot/letter.htm This is a link to a letter that tries to make parents feel a little easier about their children using tarot cards. Blessings, Bodhran

Julien	28 Apr 2005
Well, I'm re-emerging after a few days of intensive work, and found this thread -- very interesting reading (still need to read some of your stories), and I thought I'd contribute a bit here. I was raised rigidly, dogmatically Lutheran. The kind of Lutherans that aren't allowed to dance at school dances, and think that even other Lutherans might not get into heaven because they don't believe precisely the right thing. I attended parochial schools and learned the Bible in and out -- was a star pupil -- and learned that all forms of divination were Satanic, that the Tarot was part of occultic activity and should be avoided, and that astrology, numerology, the Tarot -- all of these things -- would corrupt the soul and make it a breeding ground for demonic activity. It was fairly intense stuff, I must say... Down right demonic... My apologies, but it was really awful. Fortunately, I also had a mother who didn't believe in God in quite that way. Oh, she was a Christian -- and she believed whole hearedly. But this other thing was the faith of my father -- my mother was more open-minded, and very spiritual. She read and knew the Bible, and she made sure that her children did, too. And then she'd talk to us about other religions. She had read up on all of the major religions, and knew a great deal about the various sects of Christianity. She said I should know lots about all of them, so that I would understand all the bits of wisdom that were there. She also said that the chief problem with churches wasn't God, but rather some of the power hungry people in them. She said not to blame God for what man has wrought, and not to ever give up on God because people can be foolish. She taught me that one should pay especially important attention to the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount. And then she rather diligently refrained from attending Sunday services most of the time, preferring to read the Bible at home instead. She did spend time talking to clergy -- she just chose not to attend church on a regular basis with my father at his church. She also chose not to be a member of any other church, I think, because it would have upset him too much. This was their compromise. She also knew things about Tarot cards, astrology and numerology. She taught me that there was something to intuition and empathy and training ourselves to learn to use them to help ourselves and the people around us in life could be a very good thing (she also said that a bad person could do the same for bad purposes -- but we weren't bad people, so we'd only help not hinder others). She also believed that the energies around us could shape our lives, and that the Tarot, astrology and numerology could help us to read them: to understand them, control them, work with them, avoid them, prepare for their consequences. She was never sure how much clairvoyance was intuition, and didn't much care -- what mattered to her was that she believed we could train our intution and our empathy, and she thought it was very important that we should be able to use them in our lives. All these things, she said, could help or hinder, just depending upon the person. But I never saw her sit with a deck in our house, and I never saw her work the numbers for a reading or do the math for astrology (though she was very clever with numbers). I thought, for the longest time, that she thought about these things but never practiced them. And then, one day, I remembered something: I remembered that for a long time when I was little, she had a friend down the street, and they played cards together. But I also began to remember that the cards were unusual... So I asked my uncle. And he told me that my mother and my grandmother read the cards, and he guessed that what I was remembering was a neighbor who was a very gifted Tarotist and who practiced readings with my mother on a regular basis. He didn't know how long my mother had kept it going, but he had always suspected she was still "flipping cards" for years into her marriage. Eventually, though, she had to stop, he thought. I think he's right, but I think she was reading the cards up until I was a little kid -- 20 years into her marriage, and up until we moved out of that neighborhood. And I don't think my father knew -- or at least, he's still in denial about it. She died when I was 16, so I can't ask her about it. I had already started reading Tarot when I began to remember her talking about it. I had been drawn to the cards during grad school because I had a very Christian friend deride another friend for reading them. All that religion as a child kicked in, combining with my spiritual path as an adult which had taken me into more liberal and open-minded Christian practices. I also had begun exploring yogic and Buddhist meditation practice -- it was compatible with my own views on the importance of the words of Jesus rather than some of the more law-like parts of the Old Testament. Because of the dispute between my friends, I started looking into the history of the Tarot, and decided that maybe it would be interesting to try to read the cards. It was during one of my first readings that I remembered my mother and her friend working on a double reading -- both sitting with their own decks, but reading on the same question. Big cards, with unusual pictures. I thought for years they were playing double solitaire. I'm sure they weren't. I had confirmation, again, recently when my oldest brother stopped in unexpectedly for a visit and found a 26 card reading spread out on my dining room table. I had been working on it for several days for a close friend. He looked at it, cocked his head to one side and then shrugged his shoulders. He said, "You know, you really are like Mom..." And that's all he said. Did I mention that he's an elder in the same church my father is? So I came to the cards in a strange way -- yet I've learned that it's something the women on my mother's side have long been involved in. And somehow it seems so completely compatible with my spiritual life that it's hard to imagine why anyone would think it wasn't. Oh, I should add that my grandmother is a 101 years old, and really quite a lady -- filled with this amazing energy and all sorts of wisdom. So I'm thinking it's a good thing -- and certainly it helps me think things through, and I've helped some friends with issues when they've needed help. I think God is in the cards -- we learn about him there, and part of learning to live this life is learning his wisdom in all its forms. The cards help me understand this, and this I believe is what my mother was teaching me -- that the most important thing in this life was to learn to live it, and that learning to live it required learning God's wisdom. That's my tale. ;) Hang in there Fairawen. Parents can come around, or eventually you'll find a way to live with them and they with you. And sometimes this stuff is the place where God's wisdom gets worked out. Warm thoughts always, Julien

Imagemaker	28 Apr 2005
Julien thank you so much for your wonderful post. It's such a tribute to your wise mother and her Spirit! Fascinating!

Fairawen	28 Apr 2005
Julien- Wow. What a story! At least ONE of your parents was alright with tarot. *cry* I'm so sorry about your Mom! That's horrible. *cries again* Literally tearing up... That's amazing that you Mom and Dad were married, if he was strict! Hm. Interesting. Still have alot to learn about love I suppose... My Mom is actually not as hostile about tarot. She's the one who said she'd give me a chance to prove tarot. bodhran- HAHAHA! YES! THAT'S GREAT!!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOOOOOOOOU! That's REALLY good! Thank you again! I'm gonna show that to my parents asap!!! MUHAHAHAHA!!!! Finally found something that might really work... oh I'm overjoyed... ~Fairawen~

waya	28 Apr 2005
Bodhran, thanks for the link! I'll be printing this out and giving it to my mom.

Junia	29 Apr 2005
Fairawen and Waya - not only is he a head shrinker, but he is also a scholar. He is part of the Salt Lake Gnostic Society. I talked to him after a lecture series on C.G. Jung. If I can find a link, maybe he mentions something about Tarot on their web site or maybe you could e-mail him (if there is an email address and talk to him). Waya, I don't know how they managed to discriminate against you in the hospital, but they did. Oh and by the way MY PSYCHOLOGIST has her PhD and is working on using Tarot for her therapy practice and owns several decks. She and her husband own their own practice. There are other scholars here come on you guys. One of my friends has The Master Tarot that MercyMe mentioned. It is a beautiful deck, but does not follow regular Tarot Deck patterns, has its own LWB (which isn't little) and reads a very different way. If you look at The Connolly Tarot, it is written and illustrated by a Christian Mother and Son Duo (the Connollys). It is patterned after RW, but instead of Death you have Transition and in place of The Devil card is Materialism. You can read the same way as any other deck. It has its own LWB which explains the imagery. Also, they have published a series of books (someone here might be willing to sell you in Tarot Trading) written for this series. I would recommend the first at least any way which is called, "Tarot A new Handbook for the Apprentice" by Eileen Connolly. It includes a Christian prayer and meditation for every Major Arcana card. You could also use this book with any RW Deck. Look at samples at www.Tarotgarden.com and also here, at Aelectic, under Decks. Love and Cups of Nines, Junia Other than that sympathy for their ignorance is the only real defense you have. Hang in there!

Oriana	29 Apr 2005
Fairawen wrote: Funny that you should bring that up! I tried to tell my family that, and they simply contradicted me by saying, "Then what do you need the cards for if they're just like praying? Why don't you PRAY instead of playing with these evil cards?" My personal take on this is that if I'm using the cards as a tool, then any advice/guidance that does come to me is going to come to me in a form I'm familiar with, something I recognise. I can pray as well - an answer might come to me through using the cards, or it might come some other way, or it might not come at all. (In fact, the thought process I go through while shuffling the cards often includes a sort of unspoken prayer for guidance.) I can already imagine the counter-arguments that some Christians might make to following that line of thought through to its conclusions. They would "prove" that using a tool that can give you insight to yourself and your surroundings, but relies on your own interpretations, is being presumptious, putting yourself in the place of God... that you should wait for guidance to come to you. Or if you must actively seek it, it should be from a reliable, trusted source such as the Bible. Having seen the way that people can twist the words found in the Bible to suit their own beliefs, I'm inclined to think it proof that any advice, whatever the source, is only as good as the recipient's abilities to interpret it. If someone were determined to use the Bible to justify to themselves some evil intent, then they probably could find a way to do so. I'm sure it has been done many's a time by unscrupulous religious leaders in the past. I wouldn't try that line of reasoning on your parents, though! - it would probably add "blasphemy" to the other crimes built up against you in their mind... :( Unfortunately, I think if your parents are really determined to dislike Tarot then they will continue to do so in the face of any argument you might put forth. And if that is the case, then the more you argue the point the more resistant they might become. I agree with the point that someone made earlier - rather than be forced into justifying why what you are doing is not wrong, have you tried asking your parents to fully explain to you why they think it is wrong? It may not have much effect, they might remain firm in their reasons, on the other hand it might cause them to re-examine how much of their fear is based on superstition and hearsay. But ultimately the most important thing is that you remain easy with your own actions in your own mind. Best wishes, Oriana P.S. As a side point, in a self-insight type reading the other day, I turned up The Hierophant in the "what I'm doing right in my life" position... I read it as the cards' way of telling me that my (re)turning to organised religion is a good thing, and encouraging me to start going back to Church on a regular basis. :) If that isn't a "positive" way of integrating Tarot and Christianity, I am not sure what is...!

Violinagin	29 Apr 2005
Hmm... For me, it's hard to pin down a time when I knew I was Christian or a Reader. When I was little, my family never went to church at all. We are part of the RLDS church, and there are only four in Louisiana... nowhere near where we lived, so we never got to go. I did go to a Baptist Day Care Center, and on holidays we'd go to churches with family friends. But I never had a real sense of being Christian until we moved back here and started going to church more regularly. Well, me and my brothers did. My parents have always been good Christians, but not strong church goers because of work. Getting involved with tarot cards was different. It all started with my love of Unsolved Mysteries. I watched that show a lot, and I became really interested in paranormal happenings and psychics and the like. And I was a reader of books in general. I read everything, and I found all these books on paranormal activities and all. It was strange because people would ask me if I believed that stuff I was reading, and at the time, I was so young it was hard for me to answer. Because it was like anything else I was reading. There was a chance it could be true, or it couldn't. And plus I couldn't articulate exactly what I wanted to say. To me, everything I read was a story. It didn't matter if it was true or not. But anyway, my parents didn't mind. To them, as long as I was reading and making good grades, they were happy. Plus, they thought shows about that were interesting too, so they couldn't really fault me for finding the books interesting as well. Anyway, reading all those books and watching the shows and all came in handy at slumber parties... Yes, lotsa girls staying up late talking about taboo subjects like who kissed who and, of course, all that "devil" stuff. Of course I didn't understand at the time that they were all interested in the stuff because it was majorly taboo in their families. So they'd get me to talk about it. And of course we'd have to try. And we never made tarot cards, but we had our own ways to divine things. Really strange sometimes... reading water splatters or sometime random, with whatever we had. But that was my first encounters with tools like this. So, that all happened when I was really young (and still had friends and went to slumber parties... ) and about a year or so ago, I was at a bookstore, and I decided to buy a deck of tarot cards. Yeah... My parents were ok with the strange books, but heaven forbid I buy a deck of cards. I've always liked cards, and as an artist, I really like interesting pictures, so I told them I wanted a pretty deck to play card games with. Yeah... I feel bad lying like that... but... *sigh* Of course they have been going to different churches now, which I find kind of sad. Our church has always been accepting and kind, and our family has a long history with it (our great-grandfather helped build one of them, and a great great great-ish grandfather was a spiritual healer in the church) and, anyway, since they have been going to all these different churches, they have become a bit less accepting and more.... I don't know how to explain it. "closed off" seems a good term. I've never had a problem with other religions... Though I do hold some ideas (Not just talking about tarot cards and other new age stuff here) that a lot of Christians don't like, and being Christian in some circles (especially in the art world) is about the worst thing one could be @_@... So it's been rather strange, not really fitting in. But I'm not about to change :) I like me too much.

Ulfdis	29 Apr 2005
For what it's worth, I had a little struggle with the fact that Tarot is so deeply rooted in Christianity, and expresses so much Judeo-Christian symbolism. I rarely dare to mention to other Heathens or Asatruar that I use Tarot. The implicit attitude within my faith (we have fundamentalists, too, for good or ill) is "Good Heathens should be using runes or Seidhr, not Christian (Xian/Kristjan) Tarot". I was confused for a little while as to what I should do to be true to my faith. So I meditated and prayed for some guidance from Odin and the Frowe. The response? "Human, are you going to tell a god how He or She may or may not contact you?" I think that there's plenty of room in the world for Tarot, Christianity, Heathenism, etc. Whether there's room enough for a combination of these in one person's life... I guess that's up to the person.

zombi00	29 Apr 2005
i'm catholic myself, and find no animosity between my faith and the tarot. actually, i find catholicism and tarot quite becoming:)

Vadella	29 Apr 2005
I wasn't raised any particular religion. I had to find my own path. Especially since no one could ever answer my questions... but here's a little fun for you that happened recently in my LiveJournal. I had written something about my spiritual beliefs and this is what the person said: the devil will give you anything you ask for to keep you turned away from god. anything but external life. now mind you, I had written NOTHING about the devil. My response: I don't believe in the devil. the persons response: of course not, "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." and then my response: that's wonderful. Point of the matter is... Don't quote someone elses belief to try to prove a point. Try to figure out life for yourself first. [this isn't to any of you haha... this is what i was thinking to myself] XO Vad

Statickitten	01 May 2005
I have always been interested in the occult. It took me a long time to get the nerve to do anything about it because of my strict catholic upbringing. I feel very much at peace now with what I am doing.

HOLMES	01 May 2005
the christ points me upward and said be like me and follow your creator.. i started off watching jesus of nazerath, going to sunday school. i got the picture bible (the 800 page comic version) when i was about 13 which i read that book like crazy for i loved it. (in retrospect that and my love of comics brought me to be able to understand the tarot pictures as well i think to love them i mean) i started the tarot at 15 , i was saved when i was 15 as well, a big spirit came over me and i cried my eyes out but then it disappeared and i wondered where did it go? and so i been studying the teachings of christ first in channeled form, such as the course in miracles, the jeshua letters,the jesus path then in movie form jesus christ superstar, jesus christ of nazerath,the greatest story ever told, the king of kings, the jesus movie 2000, the gospel of john(and soon the gospel of mark will come out),the miraclemaker,the little drummerboy(had to had that in there), the judas project, and that one with brian deacon. then in history form, such as the gospel of thomas, finally i got the book the authenic gospel of jesus which examines the teachings in a realistic light. (forgot to mention i did have the little red book on the new testment a few times and lost it as well). then i started to research bibles on amazon reading reviews carefully for i was looking for a close to literal translation as possible. and so decided on the english standard version. and spent some time reading it. also reading a series of books called true life in god. ok why all that? to be a christian does not mean to me to go to church, nor does it mean to read the bible in the sense i quote it despite the contradictions in it. god of fear,, vs god of love in the testments. there is only one creator and his name is not god, nor allah, nor great manitou, nor buddha. jesus christ teachings were about following the creator of love not of judgement. and so when i read the tarot cards through love and the intent of the creator flowing through me, how can evil exist in them? how can the creator say those are instruments of evil ? a person can say"forgive them for they know not what they do" and to that person who says that of me "yes creator forgive them for they not what to they do" for in their judgement of me for reading the tarot they are doing what the creator through jesus said not to do ,, "judge." as jesse as the modern incarnation of jesus said in the judas project "the universe was not created by force but through love"

HOLMES	01 May 2005
what is it? who is it? the angel lucifer wasnt' cast out of heaven for trying to take it over,, for heaven is all love and so the illusions of war, hatred can not exist up there above our material planes. lucifer was sent to test us, to make us stronger, to help us in learning our lessons, and in doing so he is expressing his love. "creator when i am born, how will i know that i am learning my lessons, how will I be tested when i have no reason to even think of them" "creator i know ,,, i will create a false personality called the ego,, and i will project him outside and inside of myself and when i give it power in my mind to exist i shall it call it the devil for it stands against all the principles that you are" "my son that shall never exist and so i never see it but in your worlds of dreams you may do as you wish and i will serve to be your anchor to awaken have fun" a moment afters "ohhh my son you are one of the first to reawaken, i am so happy and loving now you can hear me fully, together we shall create in love. but creator my brother is sleeping and i miss them so" "very well my created i shall work with you to reawaken them as well and their dream shall not exist no more " "first my created allow me to prepare their dreams for your presence by whispering into their ears of your coming,,you do know that when you enter the dream world you shall have to overcome the ego that exists in that world for you did create it when you slept and is shared by all sisters and brothers." "yes my creator,, send those who have awaken from their dreams already to assist me in reawakening as i take on the ego for one you have reawaken once it is nothing to do so again for the dream has no power over you." "yes my created i shall send the angels to prepare your way through those who are trying to reawaken,, my prophets, and then when you have felt my presence i shall work with you to prepare as you conquer the ego in your deams" (at this stage when elisha awoke earlier the moment before he became jesus he didnt' do it by conquering the ego but pure faith and through that faith the ego didnt' enter him. and so it was necessary for jesus to go back and do it again but he went to vensus and pleiadis to prepare energy wise to do so) and sometime after his return to the light this conversation sort of went like this "i know the body is a teaching tool yet they are not seeing the teaching tools of the journey to awaken.. allow me to make a blueprint of the universal journey and the elements and whisper it into everyone ears, and let them who have open ears , listen and over their imaginary time put it together.. it shall have the tree of life which they try to define the universe concepts with, the universal vibrations of numbers that they try to order everything with, the astrology which they try see their plans they set for themselves with, and other system they will figure out to add into them. " "yes go make this other bible and let them create it for as they evolve they coem to know i am better" a moment later the servant comes to the ulimate master the source "oh creator,, they have put it together and it is wonderul,, their are many differnt versions but each one carries the teachings.. they call it tarot,, did you know it" "i did as soon as they created it for it was so" "do they realize that the tarot design is to bring them back to you as are all teachers, and teaching devices? " "when they come close to reawaken,, they shall, in the meantime allow them to explore for that too is good as i love them fully " " creator ,, they call me lord and not brother,, what am i to do" "you are their brother who has reawaken and though they corrupt your teachings by recording them some imaginary time after the fact, allowing their interpations to change the universal, deepest truth you have spoken, in the shadows they create are shards of your life, and we have ways to get your message to them ,,with other gospels come known and those that are ready can see you to deliver your message to correct those mistakes they make" "so go my created and serve in the capaticy they ask you until they are ready to hear that truth, and for i have no judgement over that. all of my creations shall return to me" then one day "the creator said, ahhhh so you are the son who roleplayed their ego for them ,, you too i have no judgement upon for it does not exist, reawaken for you are the last to do so,, there is no one left to play your game" "and the jesus and the ego touched and loved and were one and all became light,, for they were all light to begin with"

MercyMe	02 May 2005
Ulfdis wrote: I was confused for a little while as to what I should do to be true to my faith. So I meditated and prayed for some guidance from Odin and the Frowe. The response? "Human, are you going to tell a god how He or She may or may not contact you?" :D I LOVE it!:D An incredibly Divine answer! ~Mercy

The Christian + Tarot = How'd you end up here? thread was originally posted on 26 Apr 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.