Death and Fool card similarities

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

mike gorth	23 Apr 2005
I found in some decks, mostly to the rider waite style that the white rose in the fools hand looks like what is on the flag of death. If you look at the Robin Wood tarot's death here on AT it has that same flower at the top. Does anybody have any idea what it means??? Mike Gorth

Airial	23 Apr 2005
Hi mike, I`m pretty new to Tarot but as far as the "white rose" on the flag and the "white rose " in The Fools hand, I have some notes I found on the net and had noted in my journal. Hope this helps a little and I`m sorry that I dont have a note of the site for you. Aknowledgements and Apologies to the original author. The white rose is the rose of transformation, and is usually a five-petaled rose. Its most prominent use is on the black flag carried by death, as a symbol of what awaits once you pass through darkness and the dissolution of self. The five-petaled rose is the symbol of the Rosicruceans, and symbolizes the four elements plus the fifth element of spirit, with the fifth point or petal pointing upward toward Heaven, similar to an upright pentacle.

HudsonGray	23 Apr 2005
I've got Robin Wood's book she did for her deck, and it says that on the Death card the white rose stands for freedom and rebirth, and it's on a black background for mystery and the unknown. The pole of the flag is white for purity, and gray where it meets the cloth, for balance - and there's 13 nails there holding it on to the pole, standing for the card #13. For the Fool, he wears the white roses of Freedom in a circlet on his head, there are 5, to celebrate the 5 elements - Earth, air, fire, water, spirit. But his knowledge is only at the head level, it hasn't penetrated to his heart yet, so he can ignore it.

jmd	23 Apr 2005
Card XIII and the Fool have numerous close connections, not least of which is that card XIII is usually left un-named, and the card titled 'Fou' left un-numbered. But further (and as also mentioned in some threads in the Marseille & Historical sections of the boards), the very posture each takes is highly similar in the more traditional decks of the Marseille variety: It is as if the skeletal figure, and his scythe, have adopted the same overall stance as our Fou likewise has. Further, the Fool is also titled 'Mat' on many decks. Part of the possible etymology of the word is 'death' (as in 'Check Mate' = 'the Shah [king] is Dead'). If there is any Hebrew letter correlation to the sequence of Atouts (Major Arcana), then it is more likely, in my personal opinion, that the correlation made again more prominent by the work of Mark Filipas is correct. In such a case, we have XIII correlated with the thirteenth letter (a mother letter: Mem), and ending with the Fool with Tau, closely connected in mediaeval and both much earlier and later thought with the Cross, and hence, in Christian thought, to Death - and resurrection. In each of the images, there is also a movement to the right-hand side of the viewer... is XIII 'chasing' the Fool, and is the 'attack' of the latter by the animal (whether hare, dog, lynx, fox or cat) actually pressing him away from the swing of the scythe? Of course, if I had placed the two cards with to the left the Fou, the question could also be as to whether the Fou was chasing death, never to succeed... until perhaps the second coming. I have attached the Dodal version of the cards, as redone by FLornoy.

mike gorth	23 Apr 2005
Thank you both. That was enlightening :) I really appreciate you taking the time to look it up. Mike Gorth

The Death and Fool card similarities thread was originally posted on 23 Apr 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.