In the cards I see problems, not solutions

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Free Flight	12 Apr 2005
Hi All I am having some problems with my readings. When I do readings for people, in some cards I see problems but rarely solutions. For example in a simplistic sense (which all my readings are) for the 9 Swords: The traditional meaning here is that the querant is perhaps a worrier. They stay up at night worrying and can suffer from bad dreams. At times and if supported this could indicate depression. OK so I see this in a reading..but how do I put a positive slant on it. It is easy enough to say you worry too much, please try and stop worrying..but is that going to help a querant? I doubt it. How do they stop worrying and what about people who are chronic worriers where worrying is part of their consitution. This is one example where I could give many. Each card has a positive and negative side but often in many cards I fail to see a solution as well. Any feedback appreciated

WalesWoman	12 Apr 2005
You are right, you can't tell someone to stop worrying and letting things get to them because they are usually overwhelmed by everything. Since there are 9 swords, you could ask them to begin by looking at their situation and breaking it down into what is causing these feelings, it is worry worthy or just something that bugs them, but when added to other things, just makes it bigger. Maybe they could catagorize and number their worry list in the order of magnitude, what can they do to help it, is it something they have to deal with now, is it something they have to accept and let go? Are they in a period of greif or loss? It might not even be a real thing that has them worried, maybe they drink too much caffiene before bed and can't fall asleep, maybe they can learn to use relaxation techniques. The thing with this is to recognize this is the darkness before the dawn and that they can empower themselves simply by knowing sometimes it is a passing thing and almost over. If they can recognize what is creating this, then they have the ability to decide what they can do to change this situation and find positive things that they can learn from it or how to cope better with it. Some things we can't change or control, other things we can, how we deal with them is one thing we can control and we can change our attitudes once we recognized them for what they are. So much of 9 Swords is stress related, so I think recognizing the cause will help bring a solution, sometimes the only solution tho' is trusting it will work out and you will get through it, to face another day.

bec	12 Apr 2005
Hi Free Flight, I believe one of the most important things we all must remember as an individual and as a tarot reader is; we view the world through our eyes, not someone elses. Meaning, we are not the ones deciding what is good for another person, only that person can do that for them selves. So if you see stress and worries in 9 swords, that is what the card is telling you. To offer solution to 9 swords you will have to look at other cards around it, or you can pull a clarification card to it. For example, you have 9 swords - overall you see stress and worries, but you also get the urge to tell your querent to loosen up and relax. Why? Maybe it is because you got 6cups next to sword, could be that worries lies in past, memories - and stressing out because of "has beens" will do no one any good, as it cannot be changed. Or you have 9swords and draw queen of cups as clarifier - could be they worry so much, because they have chosen the wrong one to fall in love with, fallen in love with love - giving it to a person lesser worthy of it, because they don't appreciate it. No matter what the cards shows you, go with your intuition, first hunch, you can state your hunch as a question, if you are not sure of your self - but say it - only the querent knows what will help them. Sometimes having the obvious said by a stranger is what it takes to actually comprehend it. Don't judge their needs - give them the tool they asked for, namely you reading the cards for them :)

Fudugazi	12 Apr 2005
I see Wales Woman has posted on this thread, freeflight - I would heed her, she is a mavellous reader. Rather than repeat what she and bec have said, I would rather quote from a recent reading Wales Woman did for me and which featured the dreaded Nine of Swords. You'll see how masterfully she dealt with it so that I was left with something very positive to do - and without the need for a clarifier or to refer to nice cards next door. Wales Woman wrote: How does it manifest in your life presently? 9 Swords You worry, you fret, you beat yourself up with cutting thoughts, so that you don't see what is most likely right in front of you, or rather behind you.... all those swords lined up along the wall pointing down....past rejections, past failures, or a long list of ideas that didn't work out, a list of things that create this darkness and despair. So that anxiety further cuts away at your confidence levels, biting into your creative efforts, making it harder and harder to come up with good ideas that will flow, maybe it just seems like such a huge amount to accomplish, but if those swords represent a task, it is broken down into parts. You can't possibly use 9 swords all at once, but you can work with one or two at a time, They are all ideas for you to look at and figure out how to use them for you, rather than against you. The meanings of 9 is intensity, the catalyst that takes you to completion, using this to work for you. Perhaps writing those down will help you see they are flimsy and have no real power to stop you at all, except the power you give them. Again the legs under the blanket drew my attention, the worry about what you can't see beneath the surface, with what is happening to your health as well as what is unknown, how best to reach your dreams. Worry is not going to get you where you want to go...so give it a rest, rest yourself as well and use this time of rest to heal ...to allow the ideas to flow and come to completion. But with 9's come courage and resolution to continue to persevere. If you are having to rest and keep your feet up, pencils can write in just about any position. Another way of looking at this is, those things are all behind you now, you are still in darkness, but it won't be long before you see the (lime)light. This period of your life is going to be the time you can look back at later as "the dark ages" before your work came to light and we all can say..."Hey, we knew this lady when!" and hope that's enough for a discount at the bookstores. Yes! Again the darkness, the mystery of the unknown and the despair that comes with suspense. The last sentence ties in with other elements of the reading where she saw me interested in mystery writing.

Moongold	12 Apr 2005
Dear Free Flight ~ Somethings can't and don't need to be put into a "positive" light. They may simply need to be identified. For example, unbearable grief is unbearable grief. It is not always advisable to make that look positive but it is possible to simply acknowledge it. The way you acknowledge it is important. This is where sensitivity comes in. The words you choose and the way you put them together ARE important and that is a real skill which some people have and some don't. Mostly, just being genuine and honest is fine. It might simple be enough to say Your grief is clearly profound. Being genuine and sensitve is a lot different from being "positive". As WalesWoman and others have said the rest of the cards are important too and the themes around those might lessen the blunt impact of 9 Swords. I also think that sometimes people over dramatize the Swords. Sometimes they may be saying something quite simple. They can symbolize worrying over lost keys as much as severe grief. Context......context. :) There are degrees of meaning. Moongold

stars	12 Apr 2005
When a card is up-side-down and indicates a problem .. put another card above it and the right-way-up to show a solution. Stars

snowy25	12 Apr 2005
It depends on the person and the cards. two weeks ago I did a reading for a friend and she said she found it difficoult when some one she knows tells her a lot not to worry because after time she'll be feeling fine. She told me she needs time in the precent where she can feel the greef and find out what's realy bothering her. The way I think of it it's brave when people think like this and a lot of people aren't thinking this way. They just want the pain to go away and for this, get stuck in their life. So I think in many cases people need to see what it's about so they can learn from it and move on. Sometimes I don't give advise and a simple understanding will do for that time being. I think it's more important to remember that with readings you are seeing some parts of the life of someone else. It doesn't matter so much as how I would handle this problem or emotion. I don't carry it around with me and I think it could be harmfull most of the time (not all the time) to do a reading and apart from the reading that's done go and look for a sollution. The querent will get no help from this. There are some cases where you could give advise to go to a docter or other specialist but in most cases I think it's all in the cards and it should stay in the moment of the reading and backup conversation afterwards in live readings.

Fudugazi	12 Apr 2005
I would like to relate another reading story (I am in a story-telling mode this morning :)) It was the first reading I ever had done, I didn't know Tarot at all, I knew I was in pain, and something was wrong. I thought it was just about heartbreak over a man, but... I saw an American Tarot reader and psychologist. I didn't choose her, she was alvailable, that's all. She used the deck I later came to know as the Rider-Waite-Smith. In the middle of her spread, there was a large red heart pierced with three swords. I looked at it and started shaking. She picked it up and looked at the other cards, and said: "You are heart-broken - with a very old heartbreak. It happened when you were a child, and every heartbreak since is a mirror of this one." She offered me no consolation but the gentleness and empathy in her voice. She went deeper, and I stopped listening. I became angry. It was false, my heartbreak was all because of this man! I went home and decided that Tarot was tosh and this reader clearly a phony. And then something broke in me and I cried. I cried tears of release because I suddenly knew what she had been talking about - a very old hurt indeed, dating back to my primary scool years - the ostracism I was put under for a year by my school mates led by a gang of bullies I had opposed; and the betrayal of even my best friends, the mockery of waht I held most dear, being attacked and abused physically and mentally by other children. I had carried that heartbreak in me all those years. There was nothing more to say but to expose it, which she had. She hadn't tried to spin anything else out of that Three of Swords - she just gave me my unhealed heartbreak as a gift. I went back to see her and she advised me a number of books to read to heal the old pain (she was also a trained therapist). I started writing about it - texts, poems. I spoke to my parents for the first time about that period. It wasn't easy but it allowed me to move on and grow.

snowy25	12 Apr 2005
I think it was a good thing to do when the person isn't only a tarot reader but a trained therapist to. What I was trying to say is that for someone (like me) who isn't can become the one who is expected to solve the problem. This because someone who only uses tarot only can point out where the problem is, sometimes with a solution in the cards other times not. The point of what you Helvetica brought up is this person you got the reading from let you know thru the tarot and you yourself wanted to solve it. Why else did you feel the need of comming back to her for the advise she could give by also being a therapist?

Ahria	12 Apr 2005
I would say knowing the problem is the biggest step, as if you don't know what the problem is how do u fix it? Most of the time its not up to you to provide a solution, guidance maybe, but the solution is up to the querent. Let me give you and example I come to you for a reading and you pull the 9 Swords, you can say I am worring too much or I am feeling alot of sorrow, only I will know what that worry or sorrow is and only I can do something about it, the obvious thing is to stop worrying, but that is my choice. The cards can give you clarity on your life and where you are going wrong (or right) but the choice of what you are going to do is up to you. If the cards gave us all the answers how would we grow? I know that seems a bit simplistic, but hell that is life, if all the answers were given to us and we didnt need to make a choice in life (even if it turns out to be the wrong choice) we would never get stronger or wiser.

snowy25	12 Apr 2005
Ahria wrote: I would say knowing the problem is the biggest step, as if you don't know what the problem is how do u fix it? Most of the time its not up to you to provide a solution, guidance maybe, but the solution is up to the querent. Let me give you and example I come to you for a reading and you pull the 9 Swords, you can say I am worring too much or I am feeling alot of sorrow, only I will know what that worry or sorrow is and only I can do something about it, the obvious thing is to stop worrying, but that is my choice. The cards can give you clarity on your life and where you are going wrong (or right) but the choice of what you are going to do is up to you. If the cards gave us all the answers how would we grow? I know that seems a bit simplistic, but hell that is life, if all the answers were given to us and we didnt need to make a choice in life (even if it turns out to be the wrong choice) we would never get stronger or wiser. I agree with what you said. And I believe if someone doesn't want to grow from bad experiance(like in your example you got angry and left the reading at that time you didn't want it.) the person isnt ready and first needs to see the bigger picture. And when you can't do it by yourself you can ask for help. Still someone would aid you with this the problem isn't solved by someone else. So you where the one solving the problem. And if I would draw the 9 of swords I would be honest about what I see. Sometimes the advise is in the cards and sometimes it isn't. I like to do live readings because you can interact instantly because sometimes you need to stop the reading or leave it and talk ( I don't do public readings but for friends and here on AT).So if I see someone is stuck and tell them I give advise if asked. But I hold still also if it realy isn't my decision to make and the person I read for needs to go thru it or solve it on his own. Than I could simply say:"I don't know how you can solve this" Maybe if it's about not paying bills: "you could start looking for work" or something like that or if this person has experianced deep pain from a bad experiance (as in your example your childhood) maybe tell them to considder getting professional help. In my experiance the people I do readings for are very well capable of making their own decisions and stand for their actions. I only give advice when asked or given in the reading.

Fudugazi	12 Apr 2005
snowy25 wrote: Why else did you feel the need of comming back to her for the advise she could give by also being a therapist? Oh, the fact she was a therapist prompted me to go back to her for specific psychological advice. But the first meeting had been a tarot reading. I could have left it at that and gone to seek advice somewhere else. I just remembered this woman's empathy and knew she could help. And she did - in a very precious way: she helped me help myself. If I hadn't gone back I still would have got a huge amount out of that first reading. I think just acknowledging one's sorrow and heartbreak, and having someone acknowledge it, is already immensely cathartic, and a "solution" in itself. (I dislike that term solution, because that implies a problem. The only problem in life is not seeing truthfully or clearly, and viewing oneself as a victim rather than an actor of our life. Heartbreak is not a "problem" you can fix. It is a fact of life, alongside joy and pleasure - a valuable part of our history or our present).

snowy25	12 Apr 2005
Helvetica wrote: Oh, the fact she was a therapist prompted me to go back to her for specific psychological advice. But the first meeting had been a tarot reading. I could have left it at that and gone to seek advice somewhere else. I just remembered this woman's empathy and knew she could help. And she did - in a very precious way: she helped me help myself. If I hadn't gone back I still would have got a huge amount out of that first reading. I think just acknowledging one's sorrow and heartbreak, and having someone acknowledge it, is already immensely cathartic, and a "solution" in itself. (I dislike that term solution, because that implies a problem. The only problem in life is not seeing truthfully or clearly, and viewing oneself as a victim rather than an actor of our life. Heartbreak is not a "problem" you can fix. It is a fact of life, alongside joy and pleasure - a valuable part of our history or our present). Sounds like she made a deep impression the first time. And showing she cared not only being good at what she did helping you out. I think it's very important when toughing someones life like in readings or other sitiations. It makes the proces of growth easier when you feel exepted and someone listening to you when you ask for help. I bet if she was doing the reading like she didn't care or if you did it by a computerprogram it would be easier just to walk away and not dealing with the problem/ issue at hand. Just my thougts. Love and light Snowy

Fudugazi	12 Apr 2005
snowy25 wrote: I bet if she was doing the reading like she didn't care or if you did it by a computerprogram it would be easier just to walk away and not dealing with the problem/ issue at hand. You're absolutely right. Which is why reading Tarot isn't only - or even mainly - about cards. It's about people.

tarotbear	12 Apr 2005
Somewhere else on this forum someone wisely stated : "Tarot is not a mis-fortune telling device." In order to progress, to become a better reader - to see solutions, not only problems - means you have to learn to look at the card from all angles, including some you may not agree with. You have to learn to find the 'down side' of the positive cards and the 'upside' of the negative cards ... and you have to learn how to apply them to the person you are reading for in that particular reading. If you cannot see farther than 'what you have learned' then, IMHO, you need to learn more, to progress beyond what someone wrote in a book that stuck with you. In a theatre theory book, someone once stated that a truely good script answers all your questions, my best example being an Agatha Christie play based on one of her own books. There were red herrings and convolutions and all sorts to traps set to throw you off the track of who the murderer is. When you got to the end and found out you were wrong, all the traps as to what threw you off are all explained and you sit there and say 'Wow! How did I miss that? I have to see this play again!' And so it is with Tarot. The cards tell you everything you need to know right in front of your eyes. You might have to bridge a few gaps, you may have to become a 'spin-doctor', you might even have to throw everything you know about tarot out the window and come back in through a side door. But tarot does not leave you hanging with a "To Be Continued Next Reading" sign at the end. Tarot may show you the 'cause,' but you have to take that 'cause' and use it to show what the 'solution' can be. I love Tarot! I learn something new every day! :smoker:

snowy25	12 Apr 2005
Helvetica wrote: You're absolutely right. Which is why reading Tarot isn't only - or even mainly - about cards. It's about people. Yes, tarot is only a tool for clarification. tarotbear wrote: But tarot does not leave you hanging with a "To Be Continued Next Reading" sign at the end. Tarot may show you the 'cause,' but you have to take that 'cause' and use it to show what the 'solution' can be. A lot of times a reading can flow into given a solution. But sometimes it just doesn't. Then what am I supposed to do? Because I'm not a proffesional at this. Now Stars has a very good sollution but I choose not to work with reversals but go with my instincts. Stars wrote: When a card is up-side-down and indicates a problem .. put another card above it and the right-way-up to show a solution. Stars Sometimes a card has negativity in it depending on a reading. Then I look for another card in the spread helping that one. Usually this works. Sometimes it doesn't and the reading indicates only the need of seeing the problem/ issue the querent needs to face. Doesn't this mean the querent has to sit this one out? Because it seems the message would be "look at what's going on!" to be the most important thing to do and there is no direction yet given by the cards. So tarotbear or someone else who knows this. Am I missing something here?

Moongold	12 Apr 2005
Snowy wrote: Sometimes a card has negativity in it depending on a reading. Then I look for another card in the spread helping that one. Usually this works. Sometimes it doesn't and the reading indicates only the need of seeing the problem/ issue the querent needs to face. Doesn't this mean the querent has to sit this one out? Because it seems the message would be "look at what's going on!" to be the most important thing to do and there is no direction yet given by the cards. So tarotbear or someone else who knows this. Am I missing something here You have touched on a key question, Snowy. It’s the nature of the question which matters. An open question like What can you tell me about my relationship with X? seems to ask for insights more than solutions. If a question clearly asks for solutions then the Tarot will always give them, as Tarot Bear comments, and sometimes it may seem to give them even if the question doesn’t explicitly ask for them :) Then I think it becomes a matter of judgement. Sometimes even an insight can seem like a solution. The insight illumines the way. I guess these questions are a lot different when you are face to face with someone as well and you can ascertain via a whole lot of other signals what might be the best approach. I am sensitive to the issues of illumination, advice and direction. Last week a staff member where I work was involved in the immediate aftermath of a serious critical incident ( a frenzied stabbing of a street worker). She works across two agencies and was provided with debriefing and support from both and offered external debriefing and counseling which she refused. Yesterday I was so concerned about her emotional presentation that I arranged external debriefing and gently directed her to go. The situation required direction. Sometimes in Tarot readings we may have a strong intuitive sense about when to be more direct either in the way we word insights or our choice to provide solutions. Being relatively new to Tarot myself (almost three years), I am still feeling my way with this. When do we direct, when do we ‘second guess’ people and when do we do exactly what we are asked? Moongold

rainwolf	12 Apr 2005
It can suggest an action that is not implicitly stated in the cards. For the 9 of swords, it could say possible depression-a solution is professional help. If they are worrying too much, a solution is take a vacation, drop your load, stop obligating yourself-make firm decisions about that all. For your readings, your solutions may be the ones that you need to come up with yourself. Some people say that you are not a counselor/psychologist/lawyer--but you are one to say that that is the person you need to consult. Your cards may be telling you that they are too lazy since they know you can make a suggestion without them telling you--what an honor!! :D I guess that means you are a psychic because you can come to these conclusions without information from the cards, just what you feel. If you really want an answer from the cards, have you made actual positions that are titled 'advice'? When i use these positions, the cards i receive in them have far different interpretations in them than i would normally see. The questions you are getting may be meant to be that way because sometimes questions make you narrow down possible solutions. When you are asked a specific question about a solution, it is in a way implying that the answer you seek is in that direction, you just need to be in a different mindset.

HudsonGray	12 Apr 2005
That 9 of Swords is so much a cliche that I think after a while most people peg it as '----' and that's that. The 9 does have good aspects, all the bad cards do (like the good cards have not so nice aspects to balance them). If the card comes up in a reading again, rather than put down another card for trying to find cause & effect, why not look at the card itself in light of the positives & see if those fit first. Some positives on the 9 of Swords: taking time to really think a problem through, in spite of the stress & all. Maybe the time aspect is what's being shown--those late night or early morning hours may be more productive with less distractions around. Maybe just KNOWING the swords are hanging up there over a person's head is enough to get someone's butt in gear to make the first move. Or it could be a reminder to leave the cushy bed and stand up and take charge. I occasionally find myself sticking to the cliche and forgetting to look at the wider picture. But none of the cards in the deck are simply knee jerk material, they've all got a broad spectrum to play with.

Free Flight	12 Apr 2005
to all who replied thank-you. There is some really good advice here from everyone. I was mainly using the 9 swords as an example as it is an easy card to classify...However I do have this problem with other cards as well. But thanks for all the replies. I will take heed and see how things improve x Free Flight

tarotbear	13 Apr 2005
The problem with most tarot books - including my own - is that a beginner's book is written from the standpoint of 'This is card X; it means this. This is card Q; it means that.' What you get is separate pieces and not a 'sum of the whole.' The 'sum of the whole' changes with every reading you do, even if many of the same cards reappear for you. In a Celtic Cross spread, for example, Card #9 is labeled 'Hopes and Fears' - what does that really mean? Is every positive card that falls there a hope and every negative card a fear? What is someone gets the Ten of Cups there - is that really an indicator that they want a happy ending, or is it what they are afraid of - becoming stagnant and boring by seeking traditional values that they don't want at all? This is thinking outside the box! Card #10 is labeled 'The Final Outcome' - oh yeah? How did that card get there? What steps bring you to that card? What if you see that card as 'a problem' and it's the 'final outcome'? This is where you become the "private investigator" and also where you have to realize that what Tarot says is not written in stone. If a person does not like what is predicted and they can take steps, any steps no matter how small - to change that outcome for the better, then changing it will bring about a better ending. This is why tarot is a tool - it helps you see the problems, you make the decisons and the changes, and then you use tarot to monitor your progess, if you will. On another thread someone created a great line: "The cards are in my hands - your destiny is in yours." You show someone where their problems and pitfalls lie; the solutions, although they may not be easy or even pleasant, are there for the two of you to discuss, and for the querent to make informed decisions.

Fudugazi	13 Apr 2005
snowy25 wrote: Now Stars has a very good solution but I choose not to work with reversals but go with my instincts. Then your instincts probably tell you that if a person is in serious distress he should consult a professional counselor/therapist. That's a solution that anyone is able to give, even - and especially - at the end of a difficult reading. If you suspect a health problem, make that a doctor. Our instincts as readers should be responsible, always.

snowy25	13 Apr 2005
Helvetica wrote: Then your instincts probably tell you that if a person is in serious distress he should consult a professional counselor/therapist. That's a solution that anyone is able to give, even - and especially - at the end of a difficult reading. If you suspect a health problem, make that a doctor. Our instincts as readers should be responsible, always. One of my readings was even used for a letter a friend of mine used for a therapist. It gave her some awnsers as well as questions she needed to work out. So yes, I do give the advise sometimes.

Ahria	13 Apr 2005
Moongold wrote: If a question clearly asks for solutions then the Tarot will always give them, as Tarot Bear comments, and sometimes it may seem to give them even if the question doesn’t explicitly ask for them :) Then I think it becomes a matter of judgement. I never thought about it round the question, it seems so simple that I feel like duh, I usually always ask for insight not solutions.... I need to get home to try this out :D

bec	13 Apr 2005
tarotbear> In a Celtic Cross spread, for example, Card #9 is labeled 'Hopes and Fears' - what does that really mean? Is every positive card that falls there a hope and every negative card a fear? < this is exactly why I use 2 cards for this - 1 for hope and 1 for fear. Not just to filter what is good and what is bad, because again, only the querent can tell what is good or bad for them. having 2 cards, also gives a very good view if hopes and fears are foes or cons - for example do one live in agony because they are always the one taking care of everything and at the same scared that no one will ever need them again. Hopes and fears are very important co-workers in reaching anyhting in life. And before I go way of topic, it is the same thing with good or bad cards, problems and solutions - who is to tell what is and is not? we need good to know bad, we need to know the problem to find a solution - everything has a place and order in the big picture - and only the individual self knows how far they have reached. If they dare get intouch with them selves.

SunChariot	16 Apr 2005
Free Flight wrote: Hi All I am having some problems with my readings. When I do readings for people, in some cards I see problems but rarely solutions. For example in a simplistic sense (which all my readings are) for the 9 Swords: The traditional meaning here is that the querant is perhaps a worrier. They stay up at night worrying and can suffer from bad dreams. At times and if supported this could indicate depression. OK so I see this in a reading..but how do I put a positive slant on it. It is easy enough to say you worry too much, please try and stop worrying..but is that going to help a querant? I doubt it. How do they stop worrying and what about people who are chronic worriers where worrying is part of their consitution. This is one example where I could give many. Each card has a positive and negative side but often in many cards I fail to see a solution as well. Any feedback appreciated If I got a card telling me I was a worrier, I would pull more cards and ask more questions. Like if this is benefitting me, how is it harming me, why do I do it and how can I best learn to stop. In that order.LOL If you don't see a solution ASK. If you don't see how to resolve it, ask "How can I best resolve this"? "Or what steps do I need to take to resolve this?" Or "What do I need to learn (or understand) so that I can resolve this..?" Something along those lines. If you had all those answers it really could help someone to change some of their habits. Those are my suggestions, Bar

Nevada	16 Apr 2005
Free Flight, I haven't had a chance to read other responses yet, but here's a thought: The solution may often lie in the cause. Nevada

The In the cards I see problems, not solutions thread was originally posted on 12 Apr 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.