Link between cards and energy

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

-=Light=-	11 Apr 2005
I've been reading through this forum in the different sections, about questions relating to whether to cleanse a deck,how to store the deck,rituals, special area, a post in regards to 'my cards are sick' and various other questions. Most people pick up this info just from books that they have read and others do it just because other's tell them to. Why? Well I'll tell you why. I am a reflexologist as well as an aromatherapist. I have gone through many lessons on energy. Energy isn't some quirky lame excuse that we just made up out of thin air. It is a proven science that we are all composed of energy. Everything is made up of some sort of combination of electrons, both positive and negative, this includes material objects !!! The way that the energy is measured is through Kirlian photography and electro-measurements. Case in point. A Kirlian photograph of a regular leaf that has fallen from a tree will show the electromagnetic field surrounding the leaf. It will extend just out from the leaf a bit. Now if that leaf was to be cut in half and another picture taken, then it will STILL SHOW THE ENTIRE FIELD of the leaf EVEN WHERE THE MISSING SECTION IS. The way that this is used for people is that we use therapeutic healing techniques to move and change this field. One being reflexology that I do and others can include accupunture, therapeutic touch (performed in hospitals), reiki etc..... Now how does this relate to tarot?? Well consider your cards composed of a combination of positive and negative electrons. They must contain a balance. Your job is to make sure that they are balanced. The place in which they are stored will pick up energy, the people that you hand your cards to will transmit their energy to the cards as well. If you are having a bad day, this will transmit also to the cards. Does it matter where you store your cards?? YES !! Make sure it is free of negative energy and if not then it must be cleared. A wooden box will actually GROUND the energy and help with the balancing process. The cards don't have feelings, however they do have energy. In a way your cards can get 'sick' and bogged down with negative energy. Positive thoughts will create positive energy. Negative thoughts will create negative energy. Be very aware of your feelings and your state of mind when doing a layout. Your energy can transfer to the cards. Then when your having a good day, you pick up the deck again which has your negative energy from your bad day ........... this can transfer back to you again !! It isn't necessarily going to affect the outcome of the reading because the messages are sent from our spirit guides and we are only interpreting. What it can do though is transfer negative energy around to you or your client. So our rituals that we do aren't really filled with hocus pocus. There are scientific reasons why we store our deck the way we do and cleanse it. Hope this enlightens most of you. Light :)

Kiama	11 Apr 2005
The premise of your argument is sound - everything is made up of energy, of neutrons and electrons. But you have not yet shown us how, by wrapping my deck is black silk and placing it in an oak box above my head, I move neutrons and electrons around. And you have not yet proven that those who don't do these things are bringing their cards into contact with 'negative energy'. The person who touches my cards may have 'negative energy', but this is usually seen as an emotional energy, not one that can be measured in neutrons and electrons. I think the difficulty here is that we mix up the two kinds of energy. Blessings, Kiama

Fudugazi	11 Apr 2005
I agree with Kiama - you have not proved anything. I am sorry but I do believe such practices to be hocus pocus. Harmless, but not necessary and - in my view - rather intellectually unsound. The only value I can see in rituals is that they concentrate the mind and can help get us in the right mood when we are reading.

The Dreamer	11 Apr 2005
Energy is not an argument. It exists, or does not exist. Definitions are important. But more important is how we are detecting things. We've got geiger counters for radiation. We've got eyes for light. We've got cloud chambers for electrons. What have we got for "negative energy"? Emotions. Pretty much just have to take people's word on those. (People can experiment- wrap the deck in silk, or not, etc- but how to eliminate the emotional factors? Can't do it. In my view, the best way to approach that one is to not do the extra stuff, and see if it works anyway; and also to look for the most mundane explanation first [the emotion is coming from the person, and not the object.]) Kirlian photography probably has more to do with moisture than with anything else. Google and read up. Saying "everything is made up of electrons" and "Kirlian photography" does not equal scientific proof. You are extrapolating from those concepts, and applying them to your own experience. You have a theory about "negative energy" being transferred from people to objects. It might be right. But you don't have proof. I don't suppose you think you have scientific proof of spirit guides to enlighten people with.

similia	11 Apr 2005
Well I spend much of my time disussing the personality and spiritual concerns of rocks, so you don't need to convince me -=Light=-. However I do wonder if the energy of an inanimate object is as mutable as that of a living one? My beef with the idea of a deck being energetically "polluted" is not that it cannot happen, but rather that a change of energy is an active process and requires active input (which in my opinion a tarot deck is uncapable of). Also since a change of energy necessitates a change of substance in a living entity, and a tarot deck is unable to have said change of substance, does that imply a tarot deck cannot have a change of energy? (try saying that 10 time fast :D) Spending much of my time actively encouraging the transfer of "energies" between objects, I can only testify it is ****** hard work and never accidental :D I would however dearly love to do some experiments with tarot decks, including tools such as Kirlian photography. (and some other ideas I dare not divulge yet }) ) I do wonder why we spend so much time discussing the most pure environment to store our decks, but do so little to screen either ourselves or our clients. PS Bless reflexologists! My favorite treatment of late.

The Dreamer	11 Apr 2005
I'm wondering what the other ideas you dare not divulge yet are, Similia. I've also been very intrigued by Kirlian photography, and the more I read of it, the more dissapointed I was. Regarding a change of energy needing to be an active process, which is hard work- that may have been your experience with accupuncture. My experience with myself, however, has been one of transfers of energy often being passive, and seemingly accidental and unintentional. (These are based on my scientifically unproven, but very real, personal experiences.) A lot of people talk quite a lot about screening themselves. Grounding themselves, etc. I can't do either one. (I've never heard of someone speak of screening their client from their own energy, though. If people screened their own energy more, I might have fewer problems.)

similia	11 Apr 2005
He he he. That is still a secret, because I am still debating it's value. By hard work I was referring to a change of energy of an inanimate object, which in my opinion is fairly fixed. Changing the energy of a living creature whose energy is in a state of constant adjustment, is comparitively easy in my opinion (although far from permanent for the same reasons). I assume this is the expereince you are referring to, which I certainly agree with. Also I should say I have no knowledge of Kirlian photography beyond the basic idea often quoted in my industry. Its usefulness is open to speculation.

HOLMES	11 Apr 2005
i don't believe the onus is on her to prove her theory, kirlian has been said to be related to heat of the body and moisture in the air that is affected by the heat of the body. so in some way kirlian photography is taking a picture of the aura, but not the whole aspect, just the first physical layer that closely resembles the body. with the tarot cards taking on any negativity that is easily solved :) take the deck and move it back and forth between your hands chakras allowing the light of them to clear the energy of the cards then wash your hands. other say a simple few shuffles and then a cutting of the deck solves that problem. yet i do like the etheric cleaning of the deck before i do that if i havne't used the deck in a while. one man hocus pocus is another man spiritual belief :) after all. yet consider this. if i didnt' study energy and light for some years, or read a good book on psychic studying (it was in that book that forming a net with yours hand to clean the energy of the pendulum was first read by me) then i wouldn't know about energy registers by inanimate objects. the negative, stagnant energy could be a factor in those days when the tarot simply don't work for us. i do think that the idea of wrapping the tarot in silk and keeping it away was for other reasons as well. 1. it creates a sort of respect and ritual in a person mind 2. it looks cool to the person when you take your deck out of a silk wrapping or wooden ox. yet perhaps it was a tarot reader who didnt' come from the idea of postive and negative energy, but the idea of good and evil ? with that perspective they could out of fear wrap the cards up believing the silk formed an barrier from evil. (as if ) eheh yet then again it is the 2005 and not 1905 when it comes to using the tarot in praticality. so the old myths such as you can only have the tarot as a gift have fallen by the side. so we are now trying to discern the real reasons behind some of those old myths . "you can only get your deck as a gift" translate into many free decks from good friends eheh. on a side note. barbara ann brennen in her book "hands of light" said that with her high sensory perpection, she broke off a piece of the leaf in order to try to see the effect described in that experiment. instead of seeing the whole aura field effect. she saw a auric hole where the whole energy field turn maroon red. which she apologized for hurting the leaf. (it was a fresh leaf which was just picked and so still had a life force around it). it is true in the lightworkers and new age circle that postive thoughts attract postive things, and negative thoughs attract negative things. such as experiences, memories, and in the case of the tarot. if a person didnt' shuffle their cards and used some sort of energy clearing for the cards after their last reading. then they picked up the cards again for the next client a few days after and just proceeed to shuffle the cards for the person, the energy from the previous readings would still be in the cards. which would make the postive energy from storing the cards moot. which is why i am a proponet of shuffling the cards well and energy clearing them before i use them for a client. plus they think it is cool, lol unless they are a skeptic and they just smirked when i do it :)

Fulgour	11 Apr 2005
-=Light=- wrote: So our rituals that we do aren't really filled with hocus pocus. There are scientific reasons why we store our deck the way we do and cleanse it. I agree with you, because of the fact that everything is ultimately (to we on this earth plane) physical. :) Emotions, feelings, thoughts, all require a physical event to take place first, in order for us to then experience them. Things beyond my experience are no less physically real, and the beauty of all this is, the Universe is one big bang. Doing something that makes you feel better does make a difference. "Attitude" (look that word up!) is physical. Why ignore an impulse, since it had an origin, and came to you as an event in your life: listen to your inner voice.

RufusJ	11 Apr 2005
I wonder too if "intent" has a way of affecting a deck's energy, either positively or negatively.

The Dreamer	11 Apr 2005
I found the book "The Secret Life of Plants" to be very interesting in regard to plants possibly responding to intention. I don't think the onus is on her to prove her theory either, Holmes. She was not stating it as a theory, though, but as something which was proven. It is not. I agree that Kirlian photoraphy can show some aspects of changes in a person- those which can be reflected in changes in heat and moisture. That's different from what most people are talking about when they say "aura". I think that making the tarot deck look cool by keeping it in a box is unnecessary. People don't need to be falsely mystified by tarot. They can be mystified by its real aspects, not fake theatrical stuff. I don't know how anyone could know whether all the ritual is really necessary if they only do it that way. I know that for me, rituals around tarot are not necessary. It works beautifully, and mystifyingly anyway. Similia- I assumed that "change of energy is an active process which requires active input (which a tarot deck is uncapable of)" meant that you thought that the recipient of energy change, be it living or nonliving, must actively participate in the energy change/transfer. I thought maybe that theory was based on your experience with accupuncture. The experience of transfers of energy which I was referring to is that I often absorb energy from people unintentionally, which I know because I feel it. You're spending much of your time actively encouraging transfers of energy between objects? Sounds intriguing. Good luck with it. I don't know about the change of energy necessitating a change in substance. Or what that would really mean. But, the substance of nonliving things can be altered, just as substance of living things can. Many crystals will become clouded if exposed to a certain level of X radiation. "Change of entity"? I really don't know what that would mean. I do know that I can't say it ten times fast.

similia	11 Apr 2005
Nope, no relation to acupuncture. Someone is gonna react to a needle getting shoved into them, whether they choose to or not. :D (a little humor). I don't consider any person needs to invite change for it too happen, only that change is an active process (but perhaps forced onto a passive recipient who is sensitive to the stimulus, such as yourself) My apologees, "change of entity" was a typo, it should read "change of energy" and it now does :) Thanks you for pointing that out. "Change of energy necessitating a change of structure" could be better explained by me you are right. I would argue that the physical structure of any object is a reflection of its "energetic make-up" (bearing in mind "energetic" is a word I passionately loath, and would love to hear an alternative to, that is understood as universally) :D So in a person (for example) a chronic change of "energy" will result in a change of structure (i.e. disease). On occasions where I argue for the structural or psychological aspect of things in preference to the "eneregetic" I do so only as I consider them to be the same thing, and I have tools to measure the structural and psychological expressions. Those of you who have tools to measure the energetic I am keen to hear about it. In so much as the structure of an object is fixed, I consider its "energetic" make-up to be fixed. (and I would point out that no object is impervious) This may mean that a tarot deck cannot be "unclean" or it could mean that an "unclean" tarot deck is likely to stay that way for a long time. I don't know which, and would like to investigate. But it is the basis for my opinion that a deck of cards cannot change its "energetic" make-up without outside intervention. To this end, I think Holmes' position on frequent shuffling is sound and very useful.

similia	11 Apr 2005
PS I should say, that the process of transferring the "energetic" nature of one object onto another is the basis of homeopathic remedies, and the process colors my understanding of this topic. From this perspective it is possible for (e.g.) water to retain the signature of (e.g.) a plant, and then transfer that siganture to a person under treatment. (This sounds so airy fairy new agey I may delete it shortly, please forgive me :D ) However the process takes days, and is a strain on the muscles. Once established the "transfer" is not so delicate as some may speculate. and now I must go to bed, and stop monopolizing poor Light's thread. It has been a pleasure discussing this with you again Dreamer. Perhaps one day soon we can do so again. :)

The Dreamer	11 Apr 2005
I wondered if homeopathic theory had influenced your ideas on this as well. I thought it better to focus on one topic (the one involving a practitioner and recipient) for the sake of simplicity. (One could do self accupuncture, though, I suppose). :) Homeopathy probably would make no sense if some energetic phenomenon were not involved. The dosages of the substances used are reduced to such a degree that they could have no purely chemical effect. So they say.

Fudugazi	11 Apr 2005
The Dreamer wrote: A lot of people talk quite a lot about screening themselves. Grounding themselves, etc. I can't do either one. Now that is important - to ground and to protect yourself. I worked for years in a job with people that drained me - litrerally - of energy. I didn't have this mental compartment inside me called "Private", I would not have been able to do it. If I didn't keep my feet on the ground (mentally) I would not feel solid faced with some of the distress I was dealing with. I had to be solid - for me and for them. Perhaps it's just a mental thing, I don't know, but it is possible and important to shield and ground yourself so that you don't end up totally depleted. You can learn this - they are techniques, like any other. Ask any teacher, social worker or priest, if you don't believe a humanitarian or a Tarot reader.

The Dreamer	11 Apr 2005
It's not about believing anything. I've heard the various techniques, and tried a bunch of them. They've never worked for me. Most of them involve visualization which I can't do worth a darn. "imagine you have roots going down into the earth... imagine your aura in this way... imagine the energy draining away..." And when people say others are draining them of energy- do they mean they feel emotionally taxed and worn out by dealing with stuff they don't like- or actually that people have absorbed energy from them? Most people mean the former. I often feel emotionally worn out from having to deal with people, but I don't think it's a matter of people taking my energy. I do believe, however, that I have actually absorbed energy from other people sometimes. I don't want to do it, but it happens. It's very hard to know what comes from one'sself and what comes from others. Also it's hard to know what causes what, since in the matters of how energetic a person feels, or how they feel emotionally, the power of suggestion can be a big factor. More for some people than others. Some people are easily hypnotizable, for instance, and others can't be hypnotized at all. I seem to fall into the latter category. I'm very good at keeping my feet on the ground mentally. That has nothing to do with my energy field problems. I'm very shielded and controlled mentally. I still feel people's energy fields. "Ground"- when some people say that, they mean "keep a level head." When some say it, they mean "don't let your emotions carry you away". When some say it, they mean, "actually drain excess energy out of your own body and back into the earth." It is the last of those three which I have problems with. (Sometimes the second, as well- but I don't see that as a matter of energy transfer. Probably, for me, it's actually a side effect of having too much which is labelled "private" in my psyche.)

-=Light=-	11 Apr 2005
Oh how I love a debate ! :) Now to start ....... I said that it is a proven scientific fact that we are all made up of energy. That is all that I said was proven and you would be hard pressed to find a scientist that would argue that. The energy can be measured through the photography and that there are scientific reasons why we do what we do. Now you don't think that items have energy ?? Well how about your clothes that have static on them ? Items can definately carry around an energy field. If you touch your clothes that have huge amounts of energy on them, you can actually get zapped ! Negative emotions can certainly generate negative energy which then can be transfered to others. Negative people can bring you down and postive people can help lift your spirits. Even if no words are spoken the energy between people can be transfered back and forth. Now my point was that if someone had a bad day ....... their negative energy can be transferred to the cards. As Holmes pointed out you can cleanse them with your hands. Now I didn't say anything about wrapping them in a cloth, however the comment about protecting from evil was cute ! Now wood is a grounding substance (earth), all negative energy can be removed by grounding techniques. The wood box basically protects any negative energy transferred to the cards, and will help stabilize the balance. The cloth itself I think is more of a 'respect' issue that some believe in and that is there own ritual. I don't think that has anything to do with the energy debate. My focus was on the wood box. Which is for grounding. Energy has always needed to be grounded. That is why there are three prongs on the electrical plug :) Why there are grounding bracelets when you put the pieces together in a computer ....... otherwise the energy from your body can actually fry the pieces (yes objects) in the computer. My computer tech teacher told me that when I had the computer apart in class, I needed to remove my lambs wool zip jacket because of the energy it carried that would transfer to the computer parts. Touching wood has always been a long time saying. For luck. However there could definately be more to the original purpose for this saying. I respect the fact that not all of you 'believe' in this, and to each their own. I only said that there are scientific reasons (not proof) for the rituals that I mentioned ie/ wood box and cleansing cards. Not everything can be proven or seen. Tarot is not proven but why do you do it? You BELIEVE in it. You FEEL the story and just KNOW it. Is there proof ? No. And yes I believe in spirit guides and I just know that they are there. I have two. Do I have proof ? No. I just know and feel that they are there. Light :)

The Dreamer	11 Apr 2005
I don't use tarot because I believe in it. I use it because it works. The wrapping the cards in silk idea is analogous to the putting the cards in the box idea if they are both a matter of ritual which causes a change in a person's way of transmitting energy. If wood actually would absorb the "negative" energy you're talking about without having anything to do with a person's intention, then that would make it a seperate issue. You are mixing many definitions of energy. That makes it difficult to be clear about what we are talking about. I've gotten static electricity shocks from people. That is a totally different phenomenon from the one which I referred to of my absorbing people's energy. You are right that you did not actually state that the transfer of energy from people to decks was proven. But, you say that it is scientific reasons which cause you to believe that. I doubt that. You would believe it anyway, and have found a related scientific concept to try to justify it. That explains nothing. It does not help further anyone's understanding. If you want to believe something, believe it. But there's no reason to try to claim that it has anything to do with science. That gives belief a bad name, to attatch pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo to it. It gives science a bad name by making things look more unclear than they really are. If you're really interested in science, do some experimentation. That's what it's all about.

-=Light=-	11 Apr 2005
Quote: If wood actually would absorb the "negative" energy you're talking about without having anything to do with a person's intention, then that would make it a seperate issue. I'm not sure what you meant by a person's intent ? Most people do that because they are told to by the person before them and they really have no idea as to why. Most people intentions of the box isn't to block or ground the energy. They just do it because that is 'their' ritual that they read in a book. I'm just saying that this makes sense from an energy stand point. It's not 'just' a ritual and that there are also scientific reasons (energy). Energy is considered a science topic, thus finding it to be a scientific reason. I never once said that this was proven or that tarot cleansing was a science. Also it isn't necessary that all decks be placed in a box. That is not what I meant. It's a protection method period. You can also cleanse them yourself manually like Holmes had mentioned. I'm just saying that there are people who don't just do it for the ritual, they do it because it actually makes the cards work better. I do plan on taking up Reiki which I have also heard is a great way of grounding and balancing the cards as well. What ever the method of creating the balance is unique to each reader. I do realize that it is a hard concept to grasp initially because you can't see it. You need to feel it. It's there and its a heat sensation. Once you actually can feel it and move it around, and experience that sensation, your whole outlook and view changes. I used to think my Reflexology teacher was on crack when he started talking about purple lights and energy ! I'm thinking to myself ........ what in the world is he talking about. Even as I started my practise I didn't feel it initially ...... then all of a sudden ........ I went OH ! Now I understand. I could feel the energy inbalances within the reflex areas. It's just like when you hear about people passing on and the spirit being with the person. You think the person is crazy until it actually happens to you. Once you experience something you just know. Up until then it's really hard to understand and to be open to the new idea or concept, especially if you can't see it. You have to FEEL it to believe it. I welcome all your comments and challenges :) Although not everyone 'believes', and that 'proof' is required and I respect those differences. We are all different and thats what makes us unique ! Light :)

MeeWah	11 Apr 2005
I am largely ignorant of Kirlian photography & have not had personal experience with its use though have seen photos purported to be of individual auric fields. (A local headshop offers the service.) I can, however, see a link with the cards & energy. By energy, I refer to the personal life force. In reading the interesting responses to this thread, I am reminded of a phenomena that occurs whence engaged in a focussed activity such as reading the cards or in prayer/meditation. (Even the mundane activities such as cooking or cleaning, though the effect may be due to the result of physical exertion.) My hands acquire heat whilst reading the cards or in reading mode, which is usually conducted in a meditative state. For hands that tend to be cold, the change & contrast are quite noticeable. It seems to be a literal manifestation of the expression "raising energy" or "raising the consciousness"--usually used to describe the process of meditation, but also seems to apply in reading. Though the sensation of heat can remain for some time after reading, there is usually also a sense of release after a time as if the dissipation of heat signals mission completed. A similar effect occurs during prayer or meditation. That is: where the personal energy is focussed, "raised" & eventually channelled apparently into & through the hands towards a specific purpose. I also practice laying on of hands for healing purposes. On those occasions, the heat factor is also felt by the recipient & sometimes described as an electric shock or static. That supports the idea of transference of energy & also expressive of my understanding of promoting healing through the use of personal energy.

stars	12 Apr 2005
Her .. her Nicely explained and clear ... quite agree!! Stars

HOLMES	12 Apr 2005
i visualize grounding as not draining excess energy into the earth but connecting to the earth life force and bringing her up into my own body. this makes my aura stable, connected to the earth core as so not to get to spacey. it is like the martial artist who makes a stance and is not easily pushed over. (that brings to mind the bruce lee story about how he punch the person to get him out of the battle stance which brings me to the other area) when i bring light into the aura and body , i dont form a protective barrier,, i used to do that however after two years i realized i was blocking my own energies in. it raises up the vibration just the same so low levle negative energy that is attracted to the light can not interact. (so if the martial artist had the light, and bruce lee fist was low level energy trying to push him over it wouldnt be able to enter the light ) that is what i do when i read the card for it is better to be safer the sorrier :) why does it have to be a wood box ? can it not be a stone box? or a box of wood lined evenly with rock quartz >? smudging with sweetgrass and cedar will take care of any negativity on the cards so one doesnt' have to use the wood box. (it is much easier to carry my cooler of tarot cards in nice tarot bags then in box for the weight would be much heavier) i will save spirit guides and tarot for the other threads on that since it was mentioned. i think light is saying the wood asborbs the energy without the intention naturally. that is why we should put the cards into the wood box with the intentions that "if i put the cards into this wood box, it will naturally asborb negative energy". i will say this about science it cant' explian the source currently with its limitations for it is based on matter laws for the most part and while there are some sciences that deasl with light and energy, it is still trying to use the laws of matter to limit that energy. (not a sciencist here, in the remotest). forget what you know about science when it comes to the tarot,, for i will say this,, if 25 people all from differnt areas of science would to explore the tarot, they would be amazed. if they were to explore how the energy of a person can be transferred to an item, to another person they would be doubly amazed. for it would mean radical changes in their teachings. it has everything to do with science ,, the science of the source which is limitless and not the limited science of those on earth. i don't think it gives my belief a bad name to attach what makes sense to it. you may see the forest and i may see the forest past the trees, but then we realize we are in differnt forests , yet how can that be for we are next to each other ? our focus determines our reality, we see things differntly, so i see the tree to me meanings birch , and you may see it as being maple or oack, and we are both right for they are both trees. science has its own bad name , we are doing nothing more to it :)

MeeWah	12 Apr 2005
HOLMES wrote: ...why does it have to be a wood box ? can it not be a stone box? or a box of wood lined evenly with rock quartz >?... i think light is saying the wood asborbs the energy without the intention naturally. that is why we should put the cards into the wood box with the intentions that "if i put the cards into this wood box, it will naturally asborb negative energy"... Wood need not necessarily be the material of a box. Much depends on the personal preferences or perception. Wood a natural grounding element & traditionally associated with deflecting the negative. Scientifically speaking, wood interrrupts electric current.

The Dreamer	12 Apr 2005
HOLMES wrote: i visualize grounding as not draining excess energy into the earth but connecting to the earth life force and bringing her up into my own body. this makes my aura stable, connected to the earth core as so not to get to spacey. I'd love to figure out how to do that. It's not a problem of being "spacey"- again I refer to some people's definition of grounding as keeping a level head, which I have no problem with- my problem is my energy surges up like crazy at times and is super low the rest of the time. As it is, I'm very tired 70% of the time and over energized to the point of buzzing and shaking and seeing lights the other 30%. Quote: it is like the martial artist who makes a stance and is not easily pushed over. (that brings to mind the bruce lee story about how he punch the person to get him out of the battle stance which brings me to the other area) when i bring light into the aura and body , i dont form a protective barrier,, i used to do that however after two years i realized i was blocking my own energies in. it raises up the vibration just the same so low levle negative energy that is attracted to the light can not interact. (so if the martial artist had the light, and bruce lee fist was low level energy trying to push him over it wouldnt be able to enter the light ) Ah, Bruce Lee. The hero of one of my brothers, who teaches karate. They say he could knock a guy twice his size across the room by punching at him from only an inch away (the famous "one inch punch") by manipulating his own body energy and shooting it out toward people. Bruce Lee was not a big guy. Some people think that he died because he let himself get over energized and couldn't relax anymore, and burned his own brain out. (He was very paranoid at the time he died- afraid people were coming to invade his home, suffered from insomnia, not able to work effectively directing his last movie, had lost a lot of weight. They could find no reason for the cause of his death other than some inflammation in the brain stem from an unknown cause.) My karate teacher brother tries very hard to emulate Bruce Lee. Hopefully not to the point of emulating his style of death. He says the reason he can effectively fight people bigger than him is by manipulating his own energy. He told me about that "you can't push me over stance" thing, and we tried it as an experiment. I was always able to push him over, which he found very surprising. He could not push me over. I do some of that stuff naturally. I am very averse to fighting, though. (At other times, when my energy is low, I can't push somebody an inch if I want to.) The thing about blocking your own energy in- that is definitely what I do. My brother sees auras sometimes and he says mine is blue black and that it's like "a black hole". Quote: i will say this about science it cant' explian the source currently with its limitations for it is based on matter laws for the most part and while there are some sciences that deasl with light and energy, it is still trying to use the laws of matter to limit that energy. (not a sciencist here, in the remotest). I totally agree. I think there are many phenomena which are not adequately covered yet by any theory. It's as though we pretend that the world still works only mechanistically, when obviously many things in it do not work that way. Quantum physics has yet to be united with "normal" physics. We use the theory, but pretend it's not really there. When I said earlier that energy either exists or it doesn't, in the realm of quantum theory, that kind of breaks down. There's wave-particle duality. There's a particle possibly being in two places at once. There's the effect of observers on the particles. There's the possiblility of particles communicating with each other instantly at a distance. And yet, "normal world" stuff where nothing like that seems to be going on also exists, which is why quantum theory seems so weird. Until more experimentation is done, and we move more out of the realm of theory and are more able to clearly define various things, we will have a hard time understanding what is really going on and how all of this fits together. Quote: forget what you know about science when it comes to the tarot,, for i will say this,, if 25 people all from differnt areas of science would to explore the tarot, they would be amazed. if they were to explore how the energy of a person can be transferred to an item, to another person they would be doubly amazed. for it would mean radical changes in their teachings. I agree about 25 people from different areas of science possibly being amazed by exploring tarot. I would not say to forget science when it comes to tarot, though. To me, science is about investigating what goes on in the world, theorizing and experimenting. I think tarot is a very fruitful area for exploration and experimentation. And, if anybody wants to get a better idea of whether it's really energetically necessary to put their tarot in any kind of box, for example, the only way to begin to approach that is by experimentation. Everything else is just speculation and handed down teachings. And yeah, I've never heard any scientific theories which would explain the way my body's energy works, and it still amazes me even though I'm experiencing it myself. "The normal" and tradition are very powerful ideas. Things which are unusual are hard to deal with, but they are part of the world too, and people's teachings must change to include everything that exists in the world. Quote: it has everything to do with science ,, the science of the source which is limitless and not the limited science of those on earth. i don't think it gives my belief a bad name to attach what makes sense to it. you may see the forest and i may see the forest past the trees, but then we realize we are in differnt forests , yet how can that be for we are next to each other ? our focus determines our reality, we see things differntly, so i see the tree to me meanings birch , and you may see it as being maple or oack, and we are both right for they are both trees. science has its own bad name , we are doing nothing more to it :) I agree that science has a bad name, mainly because so many scientists are not really doing science. They have thier own dogma, and sometimes care more about being right or about tradition or about shooting ideas down than about actually exploring, which is what science really is. I don't think it would give your belief a bad name to attatch to it that which makes sense. It is to attatch that which does not make sense which would give it a bad name. But of course, when people are in different "forests"- seeing different things, approaching things in a different way, having very different experiences- even if we are right next to each other, it is hard to make sense of one another's experiences, or even to talk about them and know what we're really saying. Not only our focus determines our reality. Reality determines our reality. We cannot create just anything we want. There are limits. We live within a larger whole. Our focus is our method of living within it. You have raised many interesting issues. Thank you. :)

The Link between cards and energy thread was originally posted on 11 Apr 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.