Personal use: non-divination

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

theredfox	17 Apr 2005
I'm interested in hearing stories about how people use the Tarot in their lives for *themselves*, rather than giving readings for others. That may be personal readings, but it doesn't have to be. Journals, visualisation...it all helps, and they are different ways of using the imagery for personal benefit. I like to be 'philosophical', integrating the symbols with kaballa and astrology, because this gives me a useful model by which to approach my life. I'm also interested in Jung, and how he provides an explanatory psychological framework applicable to Tarot. I've dipped into Tarot over the years but never really stuck with it, because I have lots of other interests. I actually find that useful, so you dont get too hung-up on just one system. But I'm interested in maybe using Tarot as a kind of 'master plan', a model into which you can insert all kinds of ideas and experiences, hopefully making them more useful and coherent. And are there any good *practises* that help you to do that? And good practices, using Tarot as a tool to help you with your own life?

Enchanted	17 Apr 2005
Hi theredfox I am one of those people that use the tarot predominantly for my own personal growth. Speaking purely from my own experience I have found the tarot a useful framework for exploration in other areas and as a means of intergrating other areas of knowledge, like astrology and psychology. I have found the tarot is useful in providing this framework as it stretches across the realm of human experience on all levels. Personally I use the single card daily draw as not only a way of better acquainting myself with the cards, or rather that card, but I also see them as a 'challenge' or 'opportunity' for that day for growth, in an area that I need to focus on. I also look out for any other elements of my experience in that day, from songs that I hear that resonate, something I read, something that is happening in the world or kind of weird synchronistic happenings. From my own experience tarot has helped me to see things that need attention in my own life perhaps would take longer to see, or :eek: maybe I would never see without it.

theredfox	17 Apr 2005
Yes interesting idea, using a daily card in that way. I once tried that though, and found it was mostly very meaningless. Most of the time there were no connections, so it became a kind of negative cycle that was damaging for any kind of personal learning or discovery. How has your experience been different?

mike gorth	17 Apr 2005
I just use it for myself but sometimes my mom wants to know something but I'll have to prod her to ask a question because I really want to do a spread =) When browsing this forum or in my house I shuffle cards from my newest deck for 2 reasons. 1. It gets that new deck feeling out of it that I don't like 2. Whenever a card flips out I look at it and relate it to what I was thinking about and it usually gives me true imput about something so I'm sort of reading as I'm shuffling. I don't let other people touch it due to my energy in the cards. I really don't want other energies disturbing the cards. Mike Gorth

Enchanted	17 Apr 2005
Of the top of my head (scratching!!!) When I choose I daily card I ask what do I need to know, where do I need to grow (really bad poetry I know!!! :laugh: ) OK examples.... Two of Cups kept appearing, confusing, then I read that another way to look at this card was the need for greater self love rather than romantic love. In one week I got this card three times, then on my commute to work I pass a church, I was drawn to the noticeboard which read, something along the lines of "when you stop telling yourself what you could be, you can start enjoying who you already are". Ding! Lightbulb moment! Five of Wands was drawn for a day, something occured during that day that made me want to confront my boss about a particular issue. Knowing that I had drawn this card for that day made me apprehensive about approaching my boss, but I decided to go with the "enter the fray" notion of the card and speak with my boss anyway. So I went in knowing that this wouldn't be easy and that I could expect him to "put up a fight". Which he did! But going in, armed with this knowledge actually detracted from his power, because I anticipated a 'fight' and in knowing that I was able to keep a clear head, speak my mind and keep smiling. (I don't know if that makes sense?!?!) That's just a couple that come to mind...but I know what you mean about it seeming meaningless at times but I have found that it is often my fault because I just wasn't 'listening', hence the recurrance of certain cards. Also I found that my understanding of the cards and the variety of meanings was to limited and in further reading and from this vastly experienced forum have found correlations. Hindsight! Hmmm! If I don't 'get' a card for a particular day I have started asking for clarification, why is this important? Sometimes something comes to light, sometimes not. Don't know if this helps??? BTW: Welcome to AT :)

Formicida	17 Apr 2005
The other thing I've found helpful with daily cards is not necessarily thinking of it as somthing that will *happen* that day. The question I ask is, "What should I have in mind today?" That way I'm just asking for something to meditate on. Sometimes it connects obviously with the events of the day. Sometimes the connection is only obvious once I've thought about it and journaled on the card for the day. Sometimes there doesn't seem to be a connection with the external events of the day, but it's still a useful thing to be thinking about, if that makes any sense. That kind of meditation is probably my primary use of the tarot--sometimes through a daily or weekly card, sometimes by means of a spread that I do for myself.

Julien	17 Apr 2005
Interesting... I found the one card daily draw problematic for me because I had trouble connecting it to the day ahead... If I did a one card draw in the evening, it helped me make sense of the day behind... So, I do a four card draw in the morning (something I need to know, something I can put aside, something I should think about), and almost always I draw a fourth card to clarify something in the spread. And I still do that one card in the evenings, and it is almost always meaningful. So, I guess I do two daily card draws... Not usuallly the "prescribed" method in beginning Tarot books, but it works for me. I only occaisionaly throw for people, and I really never read for anyone who I don't think is grounded in life. Usually a good friend, sometimes my brother, but it's rare indeed. For me, Tarot is largely self-exploration, guidance in thinking through the issues of at hand. It helps me sort things out, so I mix a weebit of astrology and numerology (really very little as I'm not very mastful with them -- though I have my natal chart handy, and I know what numbers are significant to my life, so they help me out with the readings sometimes); along with some psychology, and a whole lot of common sense (or at least I hope it's common sense). And, I have a couple of different journals -- one for various spreads, and my commentary on how they work, etc., as well as notes on books I'm reading about the Tarot, astrology, whatever. And then I have a journal that is very on-again off-again, where I explore major issues that are coming up in the readings and my life. For example, at the moment I'm a bit mezmerized by the energy of kings and the Emperor in my readings. Emperor is my soul card, and since he and the kings are making consistent and even systematic appearances, I'm thinking long and hard about the male role models in my life, in my past, and how all can help me in the future... So I pull the cards out, scribble what I think when I see them, and try to work out why they're so important right now. Frankly, except for the Emperor, I'd rather get back to Pages if I have to have Court cards around at all... That, too, is a sentiment I'll be exploring in my journals soon. Julien

theredfox	17 Apr 2005
Yes, an evening spread sounds good - what did I learn today etc. I dont think I like the pre-empt morning ones because I find them too contrived....trying to force the meanings. And fitting life into the cards, not the other way round. And yes journals....used to keep a diary religiously as a teenager, tried a Jungian method a few years ago (Ira Progoff developed it - you can research it in Google), and I like the idea of doing it with Tarot. Can see the advantages of a computer - quick, efficient, using the 'net for research etc, but also a nice folder - personalised, creative, portable, eventually carrying your personal vibes. And what about Tarot healing? Put it like this: my life is not and never has been a very happy space. Not my fault, ultimately, just s*** that happened when I was growing up from which I never recovered. I think maybe using the images as a reflection or 'container' for psychological themes in your life might be beneficial, because it gives you a way of addressing them.

Fairawen	17 Apr 2005
Funny, but the only thing that I use them for (at the moment!) is personal use. Obviously, I do readings for myself, which is extremely fun and informative. Trying to piece together a message about you, to you, and from you is a challenging puzzle worthy of my interest. What's funny is... hahaa... I use them with a Matrix state of mind. For those of you who kept up on the first movie (even if you didn't watch the rest) the Oracle told Neo what he needed to know, not neccisarily what was completly true. If I see a scathing card as a problem with me, then I immediatly want to change that bad thing about myself. Or... my alltime favorite outlook on Future cards... the Future card will tell me my future, and I'll be prepared for that to happen. But... as in the Matrix... I keep in mind that I'm being told what I need to know to be what I'm meant to. Perhaps my mind is telling me that my future is 3 of Swords, and I mentally prepare myself for a heartbreak or loss concerning my bf. Then, my bf begins abusing me. That could be considered 3 of Swords... or it could just be I was preparing myself to breakup with him, when the cards were really preparing me for something else. Anybody see where I'm going with this? :P Anyway, atm, I'm just doing tarot as personal reflection... with a Matrix twist. :) I consider most of my readings in Matrix form. It really comes in handy. ~Fairawen~

Emeraldgirl	17 Apr 2005
I use my cards for readings for myself and others mostly. I also use them for mediation purposes. I will pick a deck (I have a few to choose from :D ) and find a card that relates the best to the issues or problems I am facing at the time or just my own mindset and use that card as part of my meditation process. I also use the cards during spellwork.

theredfox	18 Apr 2005
Matrix...hehe. Well thats more how I like to approach the Tarot, in terms of a psychological rather than a divinatory tool. It makes sense, for example, because if you change your attitude/psychology, the 'future' can also change. Thats also integral to the I Ching - a reading is not a fixed thing, its just a snapshot of one moment.

TheoMo	18 Apr 2005
Formicida wrote: The other thing I've found helpful with daily cards is not necessarily thinking of it as somthing that will *happen* that day. The question I ask is, "What should I have in mind today?" That way I'm just asking for something to meditate on. Sometimes it connects obviously with the events of the day. Sometimes the connection is only obvious once I've thought about it and journaled on the card for the day. Sometimes there doesn't seem to be a connection with the external events of the day, but it's still a useful thing to be thinking about, if that makes any sense. That kind of meditation is probably my primary use of the tarot--sometimes through a daily or weekly card, sometimes by means of a spread that I do for myself. This is how I've started using Tarot as well -- mostly as daily draws to ask what I should keep in mind for the challenges of the day. I also do a weekly spread, asking what the energy of the week will be and how to best challenge that energy. I used to have trouble with daily cards, but once I framed the daily draw around cards of wisdom, I've found they've been profoundly helpful. theo

Obscure	22 Apr 2005
Thanks for posting the question, theredfox. It was exactly the sort of discussion I wanted to be part of, but as a newbie to this site I wasn't sure where exactly I should start a thread. At this point, I'd say that my interest in Tarot is strictly personal and meditative. I was inspired by reading "Meditations on the Tarot" by Anonymous. Since then. I've been using a Marseilles deck and "meditating" on the major arcana. I put meditating in quotes, because what I do is something like a cross between contemplating and free associating. I've also been reading other books on the Tarot to get some sense of what the traditional interpretations of the cards are. But what I'm really interested in is the meanings they bring up from me. In this regard I've found the practice really beneficial. I find the Tarot cards to give me a kind of order or rubric to structure my meditations, something I find I need (which is why strict Zen meditation hasn't worked too well for me in the past). Yet I also find them open-ended enough for me to find my own way (which I find is better than guided meditations like "lectio divina"). Anyway, what I've found is that the cards give me a sort of dictionary or glossary of myself. In fact, I've found that they say things about me that I've known dimly about myself but haven't found described anywhere else. For example, though my meditations I have "discovered" that The Fool represents my inner world of thought and reverie. The High Priestess represents my existential isolation, what philosophers call ipseity. The Emperor represents my exterior self as seen by others. And so on. It would take long explanations to describe how I arrived at those insights and what they mean to me. But these examples might give you some sense of how I've used the cards. And what's important to me is that these interpretations, though arbitrary and idiosyncratic, really ring true for me. I find them convincing and revelatory. In fact, I arrived at each one after feeling a shock of recognition. These shocks have confirmed the value of the exercise to me. I've been able to observe myself and say of some behavior or tendency, "Oh, that's The Magician", or, "That's The Chariot." The author of "Meditations on the Tarot" might find my practice pointless and maybe even reprehensible, but I have him to thank for letting me discover it. I'd like to write more about it in the future, maybe even do a magazine article about it. For now, I'd love to hear how others respond to it, if anyone does anything similar, and what others are doing. Obscure

Cerulean	22 Apr 2005
This morning, it was nearly five when I woke and scribbled a bit of a dream that had a tarot deck. My dream was a mix of shows and old memos to myself regarding a creative writing class I am in on nights/weekends. In the dream, some of my classmates were also on a jury duty panel I served on in January. In the dream, the teacher had us use a tarot deck that was new to us to help with plot points or to introduce twists. Our jury duty case had to do with a confidence game. I remember we went from the courtroom straight to the classroom. This was okay, as we didn't talk about the case. One student complained that she had no new tarots and she wanted something French-Italian. She hated her Marseilles reproduction. I had an extra woodcut Minchiate, which she disdained and an odd double-ended French-Italianate-Spanish 1860 reproduction (Gaudais, Paris). She started using a spread, my Gaudais, and the Castle of Crossed Destinies. When I was fascinated by her spread, the fiction teacher told me not to stand over her--do my own tarot fiction! So I did poetry, idea-clustering characters and used a Visconti...and then student confessed to being a con artist, actually committing the crime. She did a plea bargain and went into protective custody. In the meantime, my disdained Minchiate and pretty Gaudais vanished with her.. This morning I woke up, found my Gaudais...although my Crossed Destinies vanished...that doesn't matter, I picked a new poetry book and the Gaudais for inspiration..and when I had extra time, began writing up my class assignments. But I also wrote up the dream and pulled up the Queen of Cups. I plan to have a little extra confidence in my work and use poetry for inspiration...to make a funny dream come true. It's not divination, more creative self-reminders to work with tools as I had intended... Best regards, Cerulean

Maelin	22 Apr 2005
I am working on the creation of a deck - I don't actually think it will ever happen, and I actually don't think it matters if it does. For some this is an artistic endeavouor, and for me a project of the structure and mythology of the tarot. I look for myths that fit a correspondance, and I look for its structure in my life - I think about what images are appropriate for the connections, and as I research alternative mythology - in my case, horse related mythology - I begin to see the paralels of the major arcana archtypes to ancient and modern myths, and the minor arcana progression in so many other philosophies and views of everyday life. You begin to see the patterns of the tarot everywhere.

Strange2	23 Apr 2005
Tarot for me is a tool and a framework for research and meditation that I use for exploring and enhancing my interactions with the universe. Thus far I have only done Tarot readings for my self, primarily as a meditative and associative springboard. I do not use Tarot for predictive divination, but rather as a way to enhance my experience with the divine in all. Tarot is a portal which entices, launches, supports, enlightens, guides, and delights me. I find Tarot to be a excellent catalyst for creativity. The act of shuffling and selecting Tarot cards is a way to join in the play of creation. By mixing and selecting Tarot cards in a spread, you are creating a coincidence. A coincidence can be defined as "a sequence of events that although accidental seems to have been planned or arranged." Just as in daily life, where events, energies, people, and forms converge in infinite variety, a Tarot spread can also be a reflection or snapshot of that special "co-incidental" moment of combined variety. An incidence can be defined as "the arrival of something (such as a ray of light) at a surface." I find that in using Tarot, I can be that Ray of Light arriving at the surface of Tarot, recognizing the reflections that Tarot shows in my own life, and being transformed and transported to new levels of awareness.

theredfox	26 Apr 2005
I dont like seeing Tarot as some kind of possible master system, comparable or equivalent to Zen, enlightenment, and just about anything else. I find there's too much wooliness to this New Age approach, that when you think about it clearly you have to conclude is basically very emotional - rather than philosophical or spiritual. I prefer to be more rational about it, but with a rationality that incorporates intuition on its own terms, and dimensions/experiences that the intellect can't grasp. The fact that its non-intellectual doesn't mean it has to be emotional. On the subject of personal use, maybe tarot starts to be very useful when you do build personal associations with the imagery - regardless of what the text books say. I also find its a useful set of conceptual tools....for example, someone posted something here about the 'tools' of the Magician, laid out on the table, and I realised that I've been trying to find some tools in my own life. Linking this to the Magician helped me to see that the searching for tools is something you need to do, not as an end in itself but as part of a plan. Without tools, you can't act and create.

DoctorArcanus	26 Apr 2005
Obscure wrote: Anyway, what I've found is that the cards give me a sort of dictionary or glossary of myself. In fact, I've found that they say things about me that I've known dimly about myself but haven't found described anywhere else. For example, though my meditations I have "discovered" that The Fool represents my inner world of thought and reverie. The High Priestess represents my existential isolation, what philosophers call ipseity. The Emperor represents my exterior self as seen by others. And so on. It would take long explanations to describe how I arrived at those insights and what they mean to me. But these examples might give you some sense of how I've used the cards. And what's important to me is that these interpretations, though arbitrary and idiosyncratic, really ring true for me. I find them convincing and revelatory. In fact, I arrived at each one after feeling a shock of recognition. These shocks have confirmed the value of the exercise to me. I've been able to observe myself and say of some behavior or tendency, "Oh, that's The Magician", or, "That's The Chariot." Wow, I like this thread: thanks everybody :) I would like to have some details about how you all came up with the personal meaning you associate to the cards. One more proposal: I have read Tarots for Your Self and found it very useful. Anybody read both this and ""Meditations on the Tarot" and is willing to write a few lines of comparison between the two? Marco

theredfox	27 Apr 2005
I read mixed reviews about Tarot For Your Self. Most of them were positive, but one of them disagreed with the rituals and breathing exercises she apparently advocates. I agree with that: I'm completely not-interested in such New Agey practices. I perused the book many years ago in a shop but never bought it.....but clearly, some people here like it. What's in it, apart from the stuff like breathe deeply, imagine a circle around you etc etc....what's the psychological content or advice?

Mimers	27 Apr 2005
Theredfox, I love this thread you have started. I find it very interesting how others use the cards for themselves. I use the cards for self readings of course, but like I believe you mentioned, I find them self guided. We will see what we want to, but I still find them useful in becoming more and more comfortable with the cards. My favorite way to use the cards is to 'enter into them' during visualization/meditation exercises. I used this method to find my own personal meanings to the major arcana cards. Some of these meditations went very deep and provided much to contemplate. Some were very healing as well. I keep thinking to go through the cards again and do the same exercise to see what comes back to me. Perhaps I will start doing that soon. As for Mary Greer's book, I am a fan. I found the exercises fun and interesting ways to learn about the cards. It was the first book I ever read/did about tarot and found it a great way to learn. There were some chapters I skipped like the one on Crystals and Tarot. I wasn't interested in that kind of connection. I also don't use her exercises before a reading. I actually use one that I got from Robin Wood's web site. I do find these breathing exercises very helpful to relax and clear the mind before a reading, but that is not to say they are for everybody. Mimi

Obscure	27 Apr 2005
DoctorArcanus wrote: Wow, I like this thread: thanks everybody :) I would like to have some details about how you all came up with the personal meaning you associate to the cards. One more proposal: I have read Tarots for Your Self and found it very useful. Anybody read both this and ""Meditations on the Tarot" and is willing to write a few lines of comparison between the two? Thanks for your message, Marco. I'm happy to describe some more about what I do to come up with personal associations for the cards. First I should say that I haven't read "Tarots for Your Self," so I don't know how it compares with "Meditations on the Tarot." But if you haven't read "Meditations on the Tarot," you should know that it is very long and very learned about all sorts of esoteric and occult knowledge. I've seen some other threads on this site that give some sense of what the book is like. For me, I was blown away by that book. And at the same time I knew it wasn't for me. I knew that this kind of hermetic knowledge, while I am interested in learning about it, isn't really available for me. What I wanted to do was use the Tarot cards in a way that might put me in touch with things I do know. So what I have done is work through the cards of the major arcana in order, spending several days (sometimes weeks for more difficult ones, like Death) on each one. I begin by gathering my initial impressions. For example, in some cases this initial impression is a blank: I just don't get the card or it doesn't seem to speak to me. For instance, The Chariot at first seemed utterly foreign to me. Then I examine this initial impression further. What is my blankness like? What is it like to feel how I do about the card? Very often, even invariably, these questions soon lead me to recognize aspects of myself I might not have wanted to look at. For example, how I am intimidated by things -- especially historical symbols -- I don't understand, and how I then often become dismissive and arrogantly judgmental of them. I then try to stay with this characteristic response of mine, trace it back to times in my life, examine how it appears in my life now. At some point, a small (or large) revelation occurs, when I suddenly realize that THIS is what the card is about. Thus with The Chariot, which caused me a lot of difficulty, I found that it represented my sense of lostness, despair, and hopelessness in the face of things I don't understand (things like religion, great literature, even Tarot cards). The prince's forlorn expression in his chariot (in the Marseilles deck I use) reflected this to me, as did the contrary pull of the horses and the impossible orientation of the wheels. The masks on the prince's epaulets also led me to some important associations for myself. And I was able to connect my "discoveries" in The Chariot card with things I had previously learned from The High Priestess. I found that The Chariot represents what The High Priestess experiences. That's just a little bit about my experience with one card. Not all of the meanings have been so "negative" for me, but they all have involved soul-searching. Each card has been a mirror showing part of me to myself. In this way, they have worked like The Magician's tools, helping me meditate. (I imagine he has a deck of cards on his table, along with his cup and coins and sword and wand.) This is all very personal and idiosyncratic to me. I don't know whether my associations would have any use to others (though this practice might). But I find it liberating to think that, for all the research on the Tarot, we don't really know what the symbols were intended to mean or not mean. My individual "discoveries" have a richness that the traditional associations prescribed in Tarot writings usually don't have for me. I put "discoveries" in quotes, though, because I don't want to say that I am finding any deep lore or esoteric knowledge, the way the author of "Meditations on the Tarot" has. What I find are things I in some sense already know. But they come back to me in a new and more objective way, which I find very useful. In that regard, I like what Ouspensky says about the symbolism of the Tarot: "In order that symbols could speak, it is essential that we should have in ourselves the germs of the ideas, the revelation of which constitutes the mission of the symbols. But no revelation whatever is possible if the mind is empty, sterile and inert." Obscure

Ankou	27 Apr 2005
theredfox... Sometimes when I'm trying to explain tarot to someone who thinks more left brain (logic), I refer to the Rorschach ink blots. Your subconscience will interpret what it wants to in the cards if you relax and let it. You can read the book meanings and read the cards that way or you can just read the pictures and let your mind settle on an interpretation that makes sense to you. Pull a card (no book) and write what images you see in the order you see them, then next to each image write the first thing that pops into you head. Like "Moon-night" "woman-mom" "garden-understanding". If you've read about Frued's dream interpretations you can analyze your reponses in the same kind of way. I hope this makes sense, I'm finding it difficult to put into type rather than discussing in conversation.

Thuvia	28 Apr 2005
I tend to use the tarot to draw out subconcious thoughts that I may not be paying enough attention to. I don't dream much and I tend to repress alot of emotional things, and they build up after awhile :) I will use tarot to bring these thoughts to light, things I have purposely pushed aside and didn't want to deal with til they were gone from my concious thoughts. When doing this, certain aspects of the card will jump out at me and give me a basis for how I interpret the card, the basic aspect of the card usually remains the same, but something will stand out more one time than another, causing me to think of the card in a different light. In this way I give my subconcious a voice that rest of myself tries to deny it. I feel all my problems and all my solutions are hidden somewhere in my attic, the tarot just kinda clears some of the cobwebs in the way. That's, basically, the way I use tarot for personal stuff.

Mimers	28 Apr 2005
Wow, so many very interesting replies. I am gleaning so much from this thread! It has also inspiered me to once again go through my Majors and meditate. Obscure, I was very interested in your experience with Chariot card. How you turned the fact that it was a "blank" card into something meaningful by searching how it made you feel. I also appreciate how your personal meaning is just that. Personal. I notice sometimes when studying the cards, my 'learned' meanings interphere. Thanks everyone for sharing. Mimi

DoctorArcanus	28 Apr 2005
Obscure wrote: At some point, a small (or large) revelation occurs, when I suddenly realize that THIS is what the card is about. Thus with The Chariot, which caused me a lot of difficulty, I found that it represented my sense of lostness, despair, and hopelessness in the face of things I don't understand (things like religion, great literature, even Tarot cards). The prince's forlorn expression in his chariot (in the Marseilles deck I use) reflected this to me, as did the contrary pull of the horses and the impossible orientation of the wheels. The masks on the prince's epaulets also led me to some important associations for myself. And I was able to connect my "discoveries" in The Chariot card with things I had previously learned from The High Priestess. I found that The Chariot represents what The High Priestess experiences. ........ I put "discoveries" in quotes, though, because I don't want to say that I am finding any deep lore or esoteric knowledge, the way the author of "Meditations on the Tarot" has. What I find are things I in some sense already know. But they come back to me in a new and more objective way, which I find very useful. In that regard, I like what Ouspensky says about the symbolism of the Tarot: "In order that symbols could speak, it is essential that we should have in ourselves the germs of the ideas, the revelation of which constitutes the mission of the symbols. But no revelation whatever is possible if the mind is empty, sterile and inert." Obscure, thank you very much for what you have written: it's going to be extremely useful to me. You have been quite effective in giving an idea of your way of proceeding. I find it very difficult to believe that a mind as deep as yours might not understand "great literature" (whatever it is :) ) The process described by yourself and Ouspensky seems to be very close to what my beloved Philip K Dick (great literature, to me) calls anamnesis which means resolving an amnesia, remembering something that you knew but you had forgotten. I think this IS quite esoteric, because it suggests that our soul is reach of a deeper knowledge. And tarots can be a useful tool to explore this unknown (or forgotten) land. Marco

Obscure	04 May 2005
Following a hint on another thread, I bought and read Mark Patrick Hederman's "Tarot: Talisman or Tabot?" Aside for his penchant for alliteration and his not-always-airtight reasoning, I found it quite good. His topic is using the Tarot cards for meditation, which is what I am interested in. He considers this topic from a philosophical perspective (with predictable references to Jung and David Bohm), as well as a historical perspective (with interesting material about Yeats and the Golden Dawn) and a theological perspective (including a key mention of "Meditations on the Tarot"). I found this material to be quite interesting, and not widely covered in many other books on the Tarot. His actual meditations on the major arcana I found less compelling. Mostly, I suppose, because I'd rather stick with the material that comes out of my own meditations on the cards. Anyway, I thought I'd add this published reference to another form of the "personal use" of the Tarot. Obscure

theredfox	05 May 2005
Obscure wrote: Thanks for your message, Marco. I'm happy to describe some more about what I do to come up with personal associations for the cards. First I should say that I haven't read "Tarots for Your Self," so I don't know how it compares with "Meditations on the Tarot." But if you haven't read "Meditations on the Tarot," you should know that it is very long and very learned about all sorts of esoteric and occult knowledge. I've seen some other threads on this site that give some sense of what the book is like. For me, I was blown away by that book. And at the same time I knew it wasn't for me. I knew that this kind of hermetic knowledge, while I am interested in learning about it, isn't really available for me. What I wanted to do was use the Tarot cards in a way that might put me in touch with things I do know. So what I have done is work through the cards of the major arcana in order, spending several days (sometimes weeks for more difficult ones, like Death) on each one. I begin by gathering my initial impressions. For example, in some cases this initial impression is a blank: I just don't get the card or it doesn't seem to speak to me. For instance, The Chariot at first seemed utterly foreign to me. Then I examine this initial impression further. What is my blankness like? What is it like to feel how I do about the card? Very often, even invariably, these questions soon lead me to recognize aspects of myself I might not have wanted to look at. For example, how I am intimidated by things -- especially historical symbols -- I don't understand, and how I then often become dismissive and arrogantly judgmental of them. I then try to stay with this characteristic response of mine, trace it back to times in my life, examine how it appears in my life now. At some point, a small (or large) revelation occurs, when I suddenly realize that THIS is what the card is about. Thus with The Chariot, which caused me a lot of difficulty, I found that it represented my sense of lostness, despair, and hopelessness in the face of things I don't understand (things like religion, great literature, even Tarot cards). The prince's forlorn expression in his chariot (in the Marseilles deck I use) reflected this to me, as did the contrary pull of the horses and the impossible orientation of the wheels. The masks on the prince's epaulets also led me to some important associations for myself. And I was able to connect my "discoveries" in The Chariot card with things I had previously learned from The High Priestess. I found that The Chariot represents what The High Priestess experiences. That's just a little bit about my experience with one card. Not all of the meanings have been so "negative" for me, but they all have involved soul-searching. Each card has been a mirror showing part of me to myself. In this way, they have worked like The Magician's tools, helping me meditate. (I imagine he has a deck of cards on his table, along with his cup and coins and sword and wand.) This is all very personal and idiosyncratic to me. I don't know whether my associations would have any use to others (though this practice might). But I find it liberating to think that, for all the research on the Tarot, we don't really know what the symbols were intended to mean or not mean. My individual "discoveries" have a richness that the traditional associations prescribed in Tarot writings usually don't have for me. I put "discoveries" in quotes, though, because I don't want to say that I am finding any deep lore or esoteric knowledge, the way the author of "Meditations on the Tarot" has. What I find are things I in some sense already know. But they come back to me in a new and more objective way, which I find very useful. In that regard, I like what Ouspensky says about the symbolism of the Tarot: "In order that symbols could speak, it is essential that we should have in ourselves the germs of the ideas, the revelation of which constitutes the mission of the symbols. But no revelation whatever is possible if the mind is empty, sterile and inert." Obscure I like that. And the quote probably sums it up, in many respects: ""In order that symbols could speak, it is essential that we should have in ourselves the germs of the ideas, the revelation of which constitutes the mission of the symbols. But no revelation whatever is possible if the mind is empty, sterile and inert." Thats very perceptive, for several psychological reasons. First, it 'demystifes' the cards and reminds you that YOU are at the centre, not the imagery. Second, it reminds you that you have to be at least partly active, not just passive, expecting the cards to 'talk' to you while just sit back and do nothing. And third, it suggests that you have to do a little research/learning to plant some ideas in yourself that will hopefully be nourished and stimulated - but you have to do that, and no one else can. This also corresponds to what Gurdjieff and Ouspensky called the 'magnetic centre' - which will mean something to anyone who's read those books.

Fudugazi	05 May 2005
Obscure wrote: What I find are things I in some sense already know. But they come back to me in a new and more objective way, which I find very useful. In that regard, I like what Ouspensky says about the symbolism of the Tarot: "In order that symbols could speak, it is essential that we should have in ourselves the germs of the ideas, the revelation of which constitutes the mission of the symbols. But no revelation whatever is possible if the mind is empty, sterile and inert." Your whole post was inspiring, Obscure, and like Doctor Arcanus, I cannot believe great literature is destined to remain a closed book to you ;). I was struck by what you wrote above - I believe this is exactly what the orginal makers and muses of the Tarot had in mind (as much as we can ascertain it). The Tarot majors, it can be quite comprehensively shown, were inspired in great part by the neoplatonic ideas in vogue in Renaissance Italy, particularly in the courts - which spread to France thanks to the Italian wars waged by the French kings (you can therefore follow their trace in your Marseille pack). Two of the platonic ideas most beloved of the European Renaissance civilisation, and which we see at work in that wonderful "book without words" that is the Tarot, are the idea that our soul knows everything but that somehow in being incarnated we forget it all and must slowly reconstitute what is already there; and the idea that in order to know something we must go to its source. Allegory and symbol - as one finds in the Tarot - were seen as one way to reach that forgotten knowledge and wisdom and its Source. Our Medieval and Renaissance forebears knew nothing of what we call Jungian analysis in our century, but intuitively - and probably experientially - knew of the force of symbol and its effect as a key to the unconscious and the mysteries of the human experience, including how we look at ourselves, self-consciously. The idea going to the source to access knowledge and/or wisdom was formative in the Renaissance (and of the two ideas, it is the one that shaped the Western mind most of all). For Plato of course, the source was the Divine, the One Source of all things; in our secular age the source can also be seen as an inherent part of our psyche. And this decision to go back to the source is one which helps our minds become active and fertile enough to access that "forgotten" knowledge - and more important, that wisdom - that is our birthright. In addition, if we see the Major Arcana as a progression - which I think can also be shown - then this lost knowledge and wisdom is reached through a series of steps - stages of initiation - which we take gradually to get closer to the source. Being imperfect humans, we probably have to travel that path many times! The only part of the Ouspensky quote I would niggle at is the rejection of "empty" mind. I believe the Buddhist discipline of emptying one's mind deliberately can be an important aid in accessing the source and finding what is already there (paradoxically). But I might have misunderstood the idea expressed by the use of the word empty. It seems you are walking a platonic path, Obscure, and for my part I find your sharing of some of it a breath of fresh air and an encouragement! (and I have ordered Tarot: Talisman or Taboo, on your recommendation).

Cocobird55	05 May 2005
I use tarot as an implement for possible change and alternative actions. I have a tendency to react to things going on in my life based on old information, faulty assumptions, etc. So I am stuck reacting the same way, which may not be the best way to deal with something. When I am confused about something that is going on, or want to look for alternatives, I draw a card. Sometimes one card is enough. If it isn't clear, I ask another related question and draw another card. Eventually, I have an alternative way of looking at, and responding to, the situation at hand. Sometimes I follow the alternative, and sometimes I respond based on my old patterns. But it opens up new possibilities, other options that I would not otherwise thought about, which is very helping in breaking out of old patterns. Sue

Obscure	10 May 2005
Obscure wrote: In that regard, I like what Ouspensky says about the symbolism of the Tarot: "In order that symbols could speak, it is essential that we should have in ourselves the germs of the ideas, the revelation of which constitutes the mission of the symbols. But no revelation whatever is possible if the mind is empty, sterile and inert." A correction to my Ouspensky quote: It does come from Ouspensky's "A New Model of the Universe" (p. 195), but in this passage he is actually quoting Oswald Wirth. (. . . just being obsessive) Obscure

Obscure	10 May 2005
Helvetica wrote: and I have ordered Tarot: Talisman or Taboo, on your recommendation. I'd be interested to know what you think of the book, Helvetica. And I liked what you wrote about Plato. I had just been reading an essay about neoplatonism, so I definitely responded to your insights. Less glamorously, I'd say my approach is Emersonian. Emerson refers to "our constitutional necessity of seeing things under private aspects, or saturated with our humors." Applied to the Tarot, I take this to mean that, even though a card like The Hanged Man has all sorts of traditional interpretations related to it, I can't help but try to be true to what I see and respond to though my personality and "humors." My "meanings" (which for this card relate to themes of deception and envy in my life) are probably only useful to me. But I take some comfort in what Emerson goes on to say, that "God is native of these bleak rocks" and "We must hold to this poverty, however scandalous." In other words, my sense of the cards is likely to be diminished and scandalously impoverished when compared with the riches of traditional interpretation, but something of the real (and maybe the divine) is nonetheless to be found this way. You mention that the order of the cards shows a progression, and I for one would be interested to hear more about this, especially as it may relate to meditative, personal uses of the cards. I know a little of Sallie Nichols's Jungian approach to the cards as The Fool's journey of initiation. Do you and others find this to be true? I can see that the cards occur in "groups" (such as the personages at the beginning, the astological figures at the end), but I'm not sure how to see a progression. Obscure

elysgrl	10 May 2005
I use my cards for personal growth in all kinds of ways..... I have the books Tarot for all Seasons and Tarot Shadow Work, both by Christine Jette, which have spreads specifically designed for self-exploration. I definitely have some subconscious blocks which I'm trying to work through, and with the help of the cards I've already been pointed in the right direction. I'm about halfway through the exercises in Mary Greer's Tarot for Yourself, which helps you dig deep into the cards and yourself at the same time. Most days I do a 2-card daily draw (1. the prevailing energy/theme for the day and 2. how I can make the most of it) and record my impressions in a journal. I use the cards as symbols and objects of focus for spellwork and rituals, and carry one with me during the day, or display it on my altar. (I have a deck that I use primarily for this purpose.) When I work as a waitress, I carry the Six of Pentacles in my apron to encourage good tips! If I think of any more I'll let you know. Blessings, Denise

theredfox	16 May 2005
Gurdjieff/Ouspensky developed their system as a practical method of development, while living an ordinary life. Rather like the Hindu idea of the 'spiritual householder'. I think this remark about a passive/inert mind is based on their observations about what *goes wrong* when traditionally Indian or 'Eastern' methods are used by Western people. Rather than being educational or constructive, it becomes more like reverie. Which is not to say that empty-mind meditation *is* like that, but that it frequently becomes so. Then again, its also true that the 4th Way people didn't understand or use meditation, and in that respect had a kind of Western cynical attitude not very different from the average person who is wholly uninterested in esoteric study or development. So on the one hand....yes, they were right. But on the other hand....well, they weren't qualified to make wholesale generalisations.

theredfox	16 May 2005
2 card draws sound interesting. And I read recently how dance choreographer Martha Graham apparently investigated Jung, and proposed that dance/movement/the body can em-body a particular symbol, by which you then attract related energies. Which is what we do all the time with our thoughts, feelings and moods....we attract certain kinds of interaction, on a mostly unconscious level. On the matter of the narrative order to the major arcana, I find Paul Foster-Case is the best authority. Although you have to remember that any symbol or symbol system is itself subject to different interpretations so Blavatsky, for example, suggested there are always 7 levels to every symbol. So the fact that you have a sophisticated system is not itself the whole answer.

The Personal use: non-divination thread was originally posted on 17 Apr 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.