Providing solutions and giving advice

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Apr 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Moongold	12 Apr 2005
Providing solutions and giving advice...... In terms of reading practice how do YOU do this in your readings and what principles do you use for guidance? Do you base your material on the cards and explain how you got to your recommendation or do you give what some call "intuitive advice" I see intuition as understanding reached without a process of reasoning. This is close to the standard OED definition If you give intuitive advice, I'm curious to see how you do it, and maybe some examples. I have my own thoughts about this but am curious to know what others do.

Nevada	12 Apr 2005
The solutions or advice I give, if any, come from both sources you mention and also sometimes from life experience (though I try to keep that to a minimum, it does have an influence I'm sure). In stating advice, I think it's best to always say maybe, perhaps, or my impression is, so as not to give the perception that I think I'm an authority about this other person's life. I'm not. They are the authority regarding their life. I also don't want to come off as if I consider myself their therapist, since I have no such schooling, and intuition isn't a sure thing. I would rather people take any advice I give in a reading the way they would suggestions from a friend, rather than as coming from someone who knows better than they do what to do with their life. But I also feel a certain responsibility to mention the impressions I get, in order to provide an honest and thorough reading. So if I hold back it's usually in considering how to phrase things, rather than witholding information. Nevada

Hazel	12 Apr 2005
When someone has asked for a tarot reading, I strive to base any recommendations on the cards, no matter how crazy they seem to me. So, for an over-simplified example, say a woman tells me about a relationship that sounds impossibly horrible to me, and she wants a one-card reading to find out whether she should end the relationship. If I turned up something like a RWS 4 of Pentacles, I’d probably tell her that the cards seem to say she should hang on to the relationship. Sometimes when this happens, I can't help but wonder whether the cards are telling me what she *should* do, or whether they’re showing what she *will* do, regardless of what anyone or anything tells her. Then I start wondering about free will and fate and whether Reality consists of one or the other, or both, or some other incomprehensible alternative… And then I go watch cartoons and try to stop thinking so much :) ...

similia	12 Apr 2005
I use a combination of things. One of the reasons I like reversals so much, is I try to think of one side of the card as the situation, and the other as a course of action (that might be used as advice on what to do, or what to not do). Also I like to ask the querant what they want to do, or what they are capable of doing. Then I can use the cards as little pushes in the direction of action. Sometimes I give advice based on my own opinion or experience, but more so if its an area I'm familar with than because of my own beliefs. (e.g. have you considered this? are you aware of this as an option? Instead of "I think you should") I like to offer encouragement for the person to make their own decision, with the benefit of the extra information a reading can provide.

Rosanne	12 Apr 2005
This question is is one we all wonder I guess. How the others Read? I have read threads about book meanings or not- Intuition or not- female energies versus male energies and my experience( limited) of having a reading, and I don't know how the Reader came to their answers. So all I can do is give you a small sample of a reading I did last year for a small eight year old boy. His mother brought him to me because he did'nt want to go to school and he had always wanted to before. I did not know the child, but knew the mother by sight only. So I told her I might not get an answer or one they would accept but I would do a one card reading with Inner Child. I told the mother to sit in Sunporch by the windows to watch us , but she could not listen in. All was fine. I explained to the lad that I used Tarot cards that had pictures on them to see if I could help him in any way to show him why he did'nt want to go to school. (I knew he already knew why) So I spread the cards out on the floor and got him to choose one- He chose The Seven of Wands. It showed Seven coloured butterflies and a flower with a little fairy sitting inside looking lonesome. I asked him to pretend to be the little fairy and tell me about the card. He told me exactly what was on the card- not how he was feeling. So I told him that the card might mean he was not feeling well, or that he was having trouble with other children at school (combativeness/agresiveness) or that he might be feeling alone etc etc all the things book meanings/card meanings/ experience/ would tell me. He said nothing. A voice in my head said 'Ask him about the friend he had to stay last weekend!' Then the voice said' tell him it is OK to tell what his friend did' So after a fraction of delay and my usual second guessing I did. He looked at me and said his Mum would be mad at him. I said it will be alright and he told me his friend had taken some stuff from his mothers jewellery box and she still had not noticed, and his friend would not give them back. So he didn't want to go to school. To cut things short it was all worked out and his Mother was quite relieved as she thought something really bad was happening. His magpie friend was made to give the stuff back and some ground rules were laid. So yes he was not well(Inner Child) he was faced with agression(RW) there was Bullying(my experience) but the specifics I guess that is the famed Intuition. ~Rosanne

jumptothemoonyea	12 Apr 2005
Moongold wrote: Providing solutions and giving advice...... to rephrase this: to stay neutral or influence, to be a spectator or a player, change the world by any means (intuition or logic) or let it be? To keep one's aura small or spread it wide and high? That is the question... :D

Emeraldgirl	13 Apr 2005
I am only at a stage of doing readings for friends and relatives so I tend to blurt things out with brutal honesty. I refer to the cards and the images on them but I also use a big dose of intuition to go with it. Perhaps if I was to go into professional reading I would work on my people skills and perhaps be a little more gentle in my delivery of what I see but at the moment it seems to work and I don't think I have insulted anyone as I haven't had anything so totaly terrible or juicy to tell anyone.

Nevada	13 Apr 2005
Emeraldgirl makes a good point. With family and friends, we pretty much know how they're going to take most things (though they can surprise us). We know how they are at handling advice or solutions that may go counter to what they hoped for. With a face to face reading with a stranger, at least you can read body language and have immediate feedback, so you can to a certain degree let the querent come to his or her own answers, based on what you and they both see through the cards. With email or web-based readings communication is limted to that thin line of text. I think we have to be more careful in this environment of less feedback and less complete communication, to ensure the querent's will and steering of the reading are taken into account, for they truly know best about their life, and our filter for what's received intuitively is different from theirs. Nevada

snowy25	13 Apr 2005
I give the advice I see in the cards. And with some cards I to 'hear' (well it's not realy a sound) a voice explaning the situation. I've always included it. I try to include extra questions in a reading and like to adept a spread so it becomes more personallised for the person I do the reading for. Some things are obviouse to give advice for but only when asked. When I suspect the querent has more questions then s/he askes me I'll include more cards or make colloms of the drawn cards so extra information can be given in the reading and I'll spend more time for it. Most times I do have my own opinion about a situation but I keep this to myself because I don't think telling people what to do by my standards will help them much. Then I might as well give advice without cunsulting the cards.

Hazel	13 Apr 2005
jumptothemoonyea wrote: to rephrase this: to stay neutral or influence, to be a spectator or a player, change the world by any means (intuition or logic) or let it be? To keep one's aura small or spread it wide and high? That is the question... :D I briefly offer/attempt influence--based on the cards-- and then I let it be. Although I realize that people in distress can be vulnerable, I'm skeptical that their behavior is ever greatly changed by a reading. I mean I've just so often observed people in great emotional stress being stubborn as hell (myself included), and dismissing the most sane advise.

Baby Owl	13 Apr 2005
Nevada wrote: . . .In stating advice, I think it's best to always say maybe , perhaps , or my impression is , so as not to give the perception that I think I'm an authority about this other person's life. I'm not. They are the authority regarding their life. I also don't want to come off as if I consider myself their therapist, since I have no such schooling, and intuition isn't a sure thing. . .I would rather people take any advice I give in a reading the way they would suggestions from a friend, rather than as coming from someone who knows better than they do what to do with their life. But I also feel a certain responsibility to mention the impressions I get, in order to provide an honest and thorough reading. So if I hold back it's usually in considering how to phrase things, rather than witholding information. Nevada has described my approach very well! (Thank you!) Hazel wrote: So, for an over-simplified example, say a woman tells me about a relationship that sounds impossibly horrible to me, and she wants a one-card reading to find out whether she should end the relationship. If I turned up something like a RWS 4 of Pentacles, I’d probably tell her that the cards seem to say she should hang on to the relationship. Based on life experience and my code of ethics, I would not use the Tarot to tell someone what to do. In this scenario, I would draw a card for insight into the situation. To me, the 4 of Pentacles would lead me to ask the querent to consider what she is holding onto. What is it that is important to her in this relationship, that she clings to? Is it so important that she is willing to undergo anything to keep it? What would she have to give up if she left the relationship? My purpose would be to get her to go through a thought process and come to her own conclusions, and make her own decisions. Just my two cents!

Hazel	13 Apr 2005
Baby Owl wrote: ... My purpose would be to get her to go through a thought process and come to her own conclusions, and make her own decisions... But I'm thinking that people really do come to their own conclusions and make their own decisions. I also worry about evading (or appearing to evade) the question. Here's an example of what I mean: I once paid for a reading in which my question was "what kind of career should I pursue?" The reader's answer was along the lines of "Only you can decide... you must look within yourself... think about what kinds of things do you like to do..." Her interpretation of the cards and her intentions were undoubtedly good and true, and I knew she was encouraging me to try to think for myself. But I really had already been thinking about it a lot (maybe too much). Also it seemed obvious that I, of course, would ultimately have to make the decision myself. I had genuinely wanted to know what kind of career the tarot cards suggested. I believed her intentions were good, but the reader inadvertently implied that I was trying to avoid making my own decisions. And she sounded like maybe she didn't really have an answer. I don't want to attempt (or appear to attempt) to take a questioner's freedom and/or repsonsibilities for her own decisions, but I also don't want to give readings similar to the one I just described. I'm not always sure how to totally avoid both.

Baby Owl	13 Apr 2005
Hi Hazel! I don't expect the Tarot to tell me what to do, so I probably would not have been disappointed in the reading you received, although I would have hoped maybe the cards could suggest some specific things for me to consider. As a reader, I would have used a spread designed to do that. I consider it my responsibility to help people create questions that are compatible with what I feel the Tarot is designed to do and what I am comfortable using the Tarot to do. I really do not consider that approach to be "evading the question." But of course we must each make our own judgments about that. :)

Moongold	13 Apr 2005
As Nevada and others have suggested I think it is better to use words and phrases like Perhaps…. or My impression is…… . The cards tell their own story and the reader can describe them, explain symbols, point out themes and draw connections. I said something in the thread which inspired this one to the effect that the Tarot will always provide solutions. After thinking about this, I take it back. I am not sure that the Tarot always does provide solutions. It can provide insights and suggestions and they are filtered through an imperfect human being so we can never be sure of “solutions”. If Tarot provides the insight we can act on it. The insight goes into the mix of everything else we take into account when making decisions. We thus devise our own solutions. I think that as one matures as a reader, more subtlety enters one’s readings. They become richer the more we know about the cards and the more reflective we become with Tarot. I love reading but I find myself reading less and putting a lot more into the readings I do. They do take quite a lot of energy. Reading face to face interests me immensely because it seems to be an entirely different ball game. I love Rosanne’s account of her work with that little boy. That seemed a real mix of insight, intuition and quick thinking – making connections really quickly. I don’t think we should see ourselves as providing solutions but more as people who can light the way through insight. And I think we should make that clear to Querents. If I was reading professionally I’d do that, but would people give me money if I could not provide them with certainty or a positive vision? Does taking money change things? I should add that Ihave no desire to become professional but I do have a wish to do face to face readings and am preparing for this. Moongold

Baby Owl	13 Apr 2005
Moongold wrote: I am not sure that the Tarot always does provide solutions. . . I don’t think we should see ourselves as providing solutions but more as people who can light the way through insight. And I think we should make that clear to Querents. If I was reading professionally I’d do that, but would people give me money if I could not provide them with certainty or a positive vision? Does taking money change things? You bring up important points here, Moongold! I do free readings via e-mail. On one occasion, someone asked something like "How can I get lots of women?" I responded by suggesting that the question be rephrased to "What do I need to understand about my relationships with women?" I sent the reading and the person replied, "If I wanted to be psychoanalyzed, I would go to a shrink. Please give me a tarot reading. How can I get lots of women?" I shudder to think what this person's reaction would have been if I had been charging money for the reading!!! :D

Rosanne	13 Apr 2005
Hi Moongold, I wondered why you asked the question. Heres my take on reading. I found doing readings here at AT was exhausting and I felt very disconnected. I like face to face. I don't like talking on the telephone either, but I like writing letters and receiving them.- Go figure. Anyway when I started reading for others I chose not to read for family, so I did not get History in the way. I also started with children; I have a closeness and understanding with Kids under twelve. I like them, they seem to like me. Back then I had Rider Waite- nothing bright and colourful as there is now. I knew the book meanings for each card, I knew my accumulated experience for each card and so between the child and myself we would talk about the card. I NEVER lied to a child or fudged the Truth. In the beginning I relied on the book meanings but slowly This thing called Intuition started creeping in. That is- meanings without logical reason or foreknowledge. I resisted. After a while I started to drop those things in that arose in my thoughts, and it seemed to have a strong bearing. So my method is talk, ask, listen, ask talk... very verbal readings.. no advice just talk about the cards. Silent Querents are the hardest. I sound like a babbling brook going on about the cards and showing them. Funny it is the silent ones who are my most repeat querents. I never charged for children. After about three years I started getting adults, and so I just continued with them as bigger kids. Talk ask ..draw them in to a discussion about the cards, say whats on my mind with a lot of maybes' could be's never should be. I loved it and it was very rewarding. Because this is a small town I could often see the results. The trick is to never talk about it to anyone in the town. Never ,never, never. I have stopped because my family circumstances have changed and I thought I might still keep reading going on AT. But I really don't like it. So when things change I will go back face to face. The cards just keep getting richer and richer as your experience grows and you allow that Intuition thing in. ~Rosanne ps. I probally get body language clues as well face to face.

Ahria	16 Apr 2005
I have been doing alot of face to face readings for friends of friends and other aquintances. In the beginning I always feel I am clutching for straws, so I generally use the phases, I feel you are this type person or going through, but never a definate. I also make it clear that I could be wrong and the future or solution that comes is in their hands with the choices they make. Once I get my footing, I will go in deeper but lead them rather than push, let me explain by an example. I did a reading about two weeks ago to a collegue at work, he had just started with us, and we clicked and happened to notice AT on my computer and asked if I did read and if I would read for him I did two readings for him, the first was a general one where it described him and his personailty, it touched on work and hinted a difficult relationship. I then did a reading on it and when I first looked at it, it was definatly the most difficult reading (not in not reading the cards but what they were saying). Firstly the relationship had a affair aspect to it, she was looking for a friend / father type figure, but there was also another two men involved, and his side was looking for passion and there was also a child involved. So I just sat for about 5/10 minutes thinking first I must be wrong, and secondly how the hell do I go there to explain it. It also showed basis of the relationship was shaky. Oh the most I remember from the cards themselves were alot of court cards and four of the majors. One more thing I need to explain is I see and feel things when I am reading, so the very first thing I said to him is dont explain till I am done just confirm if what I am saying is correct. The next thing I said was it is very personal and I am going to go carefully here and he can stop me anytime he feels I am getting too personal. The conversation went something like this: (When I describe a person it is physical as well as personaility traits.) I get the sense that she is this type of person .... I get the feeling that you are this type of person.... You have a very strong friendship with each other..... There is almost a affair type aspect to the relationship.... There is another man involved this is the type of person he is.... I also see there might be another man involved this type of person.... There is a boy involved younger than a year this type of person..... Well you get the idea with each statement he confirmed that it was true (and amazingly it all was), when I got to then end of it, he asked what do I do? With the reading I then explained what he was expecting, which he confirmed, and what she was expecting which he also felt was correct. He then just looked up and me and said we want totally different things and she doesnt love me the way I want her too. He was sad and relieved at the same time, yet I didnt tell him anything he didnt know already it was just like I clarified it. It was a hard reading and had to be handle with care, I knew at the beginning already they were very different people, but I never once said something like she doesnt love you or anything definate like that, its almost like when you focus on something and clarify the information the solution becomes so much clearer.

Cerulean	16 Apr 2005
I was reading Ahria and Rosanne's responses and I was nodding and thinking, "wow, great stories..." In terms of Hazel's paid reading, I had a similar experience--I tried to leave the question open to "what creative direction might be suggested next" and the reader was using the Aquarian. Not my favorite deck then, which I thought might have made my impression of the reading less than positive. In retrospect the reader tried to make me define my question more specifically to 'well, what creative direction were you thinking of specifically...."how old are you...yes, I as a former___ was able to do this at a younger age, you have to focus if that is what you want..." Okay, she was being more of a mom looking at me, directing me toward quicker bits and advice...rather than a cheerful aunt that looked at the pictures, and me and my question, than considered what to say. You might tell that I'm biased in terms of conversational readings... I can tell she was an experienced reader. I paid and thanked her with a smile. It was a lesson to me. I don't think I could do face-to-face readings for a living in the reader's style, but I see how her style worked. If a reader wants to have the questioner leave with a feeling of having 'accomplished something' or 'being given good advice,' the reader was geared toward asking specifics, leading questions and making one specific recommendation. If the questioner didn't respond quickly, the reader's answer seemed to have been, "well, you haven't thought this through or you really don't want to do this (direction)." I left with the understanding my artistic direction was an open question still, at least to me. Sometimes such questions take such time. I've managed to do a few steps in the projects that I've wanted by taking one class at a time...and I have also grown to like the vintage Aquarian tarot. Cerulean

The Providing solutions and giving advice thread was originally posted on 12 Apr 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.