for all those i have given readings to, questions and i can take it

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 May 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

HOLMES	19 May 2005
hail those who i have given readings to in the past. i do have some questions for you to help me become a better tarot reader, to have a more open mind, and please don't turn this into your a good reader holmes thread for that isnt' what i am looking for ego wise. but some tips based on the readings i gave you on how to improve. for example i know i been trying to put some of my own experiences into the readings the last six months in order to share energy.. perhaps people think i am putting my own issues into cards, and reading the cards to my issues.. which i am not, it was a way off trying to build empathy. so perhaps you can answer did that help or no, for those who may of notice. so in the readings i did for you, you must of notice some stuff the one criticism i know i have from chat is to turn my knowledge into pratical messages. yet 0.did you feel i wasnt' comin from the heart? 1. have i ever been dimissive with you in readings i.e read from a superior tone (i think i try to read impartially and deliver the reading like a musican delivers the song 2. have I before not taken responsiblity for my reading with you do you feel 3. have i used prewritten cards meanings or does it sound like i am reading from a book? 4. so based on three when i did my reading for you,, did you feel that i was using an cold reading techique saying opened stuff that could of meant for anything. 5. did you really have to read the tarot readings twice or twice to give feedback? 6.any other insights you have to give ? why all these questions ? well a reading i did was very bad according to the person, and so it must of been bad for someone else but they didnt' tell me the matter of responsiblity has come up as well and pre written meanings if you like you can pm me this, i can take a hit or two as long as it is honest for how else can i imrpove as a reader. for the idea i don't take responsilibity for my readings has me so sadden and emotional that i dont' feel worthy of reading here any more, (and remember dont turn this into you are a good reader but looking for some criticism not to knock myself around some more but to look at it honestly for perhaps i am the one with the veil over my eyes.

Kahlie	19 May 2005
Dear Holmes, You have never given me a Reading but I felt compelled to reply. Quote: why all these questions ? well a reading i did was very bad according to the person, and so it must of been bad for someone else but they didnt' tell me Please don't feel this way. Every Reader can have an off day, or due to a question that feels confused, have a Reading that is in-accurate or a jumble. Just because you made a mistake once, doesn't mean you were always making mistakes. Although, yes, when a Reading is inaccurate it is sometimes hard to tell the Reader, since it's disappointing to them, that they were off. On improving on Readings - I hate to be a stickler, but I have been following some of your threads, but actually reading through your Readings can be quite difficult. Try to use the <[b]> Put text here <[/ b]> or <[i]>Or put text here<[ /i]> functions of the board to bold or italic your text. Lose the < > and the space to use the actual tags. This improves readability. - I feel your Readings are coming very much from the heart. You are obviously striving to make a good Reading for everybody. This is for me, quite obvious in your tone. I read the post you made after firemaidens post. - About responsibility? I feel that as a Reader, you are only responsible to say what you see in the cards. What a person does with the advice of the cards, is their responsibility. You try your best to be accurate, so what other responsibility do you think you have? - Most people read their Readings 2-4 times before giving feedback. I know I do. I'm always afraid I miss a point that I wanted to give feedback on. And yes, I quote a lot, and want to give extensive feedback. I have received feedback weeks after Readings. I know it's a dissatisfying experience when a Reading just doesn't click. It hasn't happened that often to me. I take satisfaction in the people that I have helped, and feel better after a Reading from me. It's sometimes horrible that people won't leave feedback and you feel left in the dark, and like you wasted your time. I try to remember that I'm doing Reading for fun, and to learn. I hope the person is still kind enough to give feedback, and if not, I hope they at least enjoyed the Reading. Sometimes issues are too heavy, and a person doesn't feel comfortable leaving feedback. I hope this helps you. I feel sad you are affected this much by negative comments and/or no feedbacks. I hope you will realise the people that you have helped a lot through your Readings. Light & a BIG HUG! Kahlie

WalesWoman	19 May 2005
Ok, Holmes, you asked for it. The reading you did for me made me think. I had to think about it, actually look inside myself and discover what it did mean to me. How dare you? It wasn't easy and it wasn't all spelled out for me to just swallow and accept and say, gee thanks Holmes old man and then put it out of my thoughts and go on to the next reading like it was some sort of game to play. Your reading was like a map, which is wonderful, but when you are driving in a car, the world looks a lot different than it does on the map, so I had to get my bearings in order to recognize what I was seeing. I'm not being critical here at all, just trying to describe the difference between some expectations between querants and readers and what it felt like to me. Maybe some want ONSTAR with a GPS, rather than having a map with all the markings, which they have to unfold and figure out , look for the sign posts, pay attention and decide which direction they are facing. I don't know who's reading you are referring to, since I know it wasn't the one you did for me. Tho' I wondered when I gave my feedback if that was what you were trying to direct me to or if I just needed to see it for myself, I decided it was something I had to figure out for myself what it meant for me, to use my judgement. Another analogy just crossed my mind in different styles of readings... sort of like TV crime mysteries... only the only ones who don't know are the people trying to solve the crime... since the viewer saw the whole thing at the beginning and can be the armchair coach the whole show, rather than a real mystery where you have to get as involved and not miss anything or you'll never know what's going on and be just as stumped as the slueths until the end of it. Maybe it just wasn't clear enough to them? Maybe they wanted definative answers and directions and outcomes and not have to put anything of themselves into it, nothing left for them to figure out? I wish... I think that is the whole fantasy of querants and readers too, that someone will give them the reading of a lifetime, where everything is so clear, that there is nothing left to the imagination, no unanswered questions or doubts... the old,"You will meet a dark, mysterious man... win the jackpot and live to a ripe old age in perfect happiness and bliss." If only it were that easy and we were that good. Don't doubt yourself HOLMES, maybe you were having an off day, maybe this person just didn't want to see anything but what they wanted to see and chose to be blinded by their own perceptions.

Free Flight	19 May 2005
Hail Dear Holmes :) :) HOLMES wrote: 0.did you feel i wasnt' comin from the heart? No i felt it came from the heart and I love your bend on spreads with a spiritual/divine feel HOLMES wrote: 1. have i ever been dimissive with you in readings i.e read from a superior tone (i think i try to read impartially and deliver the reading like a musican delivers the song never!! HOLMES wrote: 2. have I before not taken responsiblity for my reading with you do you feel no I dont not feel this way at all HOLMES wrote: 3. have i used prewritten cards meanings or does it sound like i am reading from a book? No book. Intuition baby! :) HOLMES wrote: 4. so based on three when i did my reading for you,, did you feel that i was using an cold reading techique saying opened stuff that could of meant for anything. No I did not HOLMES wrote: 5. did you really have to read the tarot readings twice or twice to give feedback? this one I have to say yes to :) But only (as it said in my feedback) that you hit a deep level and I really had to sit down and mull it over and think about it for some time. I actually even went back to it about a week ago and re-read and re-analysed and I think you went really deep with it and it was spot on, accurate and great :) There is no veil over your eyes. As said before maybe it was a one off miss maybe it was even the person. Dont take it to heart. You are a good reader and I want more please Love and blessings Ainsley

Emily	19 May 2005
Hi Holmes, You've read for me a few years ago - at the time I didn't connect with all the cards but yes you read from your heart, not straight from a book - I printed it out and put it away only to find it a few months ago. I didn't think so at the time but your reading was given to me at a crucial time of my life, you even got the timing right - you said fall/autumn - Life changed for me in the October of that year. The reading was centered around my love life but also encompassed my family life. It remains the best reading I've ever been given, even if it did take a while for me to fully appreciate it. Everybody has readings that can be off, I have and thats why I stopped reading in the Exchange for a while - but its your confidence that has taken a knock and now you're doubting your ability as a reader - Don't. It would be a great loss to AT if you stopped doing your readings, I hope one day to be able to read as well as you. :)

HOLMES	19 May 2005
I was worried about this all night in fact and toss and turned and woked up earlier for I was curious as to what you may say. Kahlie thanks for your honest feedback, it is good to get an outside perspective who never had a reading but can look at the way it was presented and see if it was good or not. hmm so that is how you do bold and intalics, perhaps bold for standarized meanings and then italics for interpation? yeah i agree with you about feedback, some people pm you and say they will offer feedback but you don't hear from them. one person gave me an email after a year with feedback eheh. in my readings i usally try to wait til feedback is given for sometimes posts are exchanged that really add to the reading. wales woman thanks for the feedback as well "Don't doubt yourself HOLMES, maybe you were having an off day, maybe this person just didn't want to see anything but what they wanted to see and chose to be blinded by their own perceptions" It must of been me having an off day,, it did bring up some doubts that I was having before hand "what if people were just being nice and posting good feedback due to that niceness" which inevitably lead me to "perhaps i am not as good as i think i am" i wouldn't say it was because they didnt' want to see, for they look twice for me after i explained where i was coming from so the "responsbility" and onus falls back on me, and instead of saying "well damn that can't be" i decided to make this thread in order to improve my readings. question for wales and freeflight. does deep level means it brought up issues, or like a big realization that needed to be mulled over and could i have presented it more loving , more postive or was the honesty what help you to realize it perhaps i can find a medium road. edited to add, forget that,, kind of redunant after i posted it thanks guys thanks emily yoru feedback reminds me of what happens in real life, i think it is true of anyone who reads in real life for a while that a freind will come to you months or perhaps half a year later and bring up a reading you did for them and say remember? (nope i dont' eheh) I guess it is like something who falls when they "never did before" and then worry about every step they make,, which is what i did last night,, or simply do that something they were doing dancing,, figureskating, walking,, with a mind to be aware but to enjoy what they were doing.

Umbrae	19 May 2005
Holmes: on March of 2003, you posted a reading for me. I stated at the time, “That reading, is one of the finest ever done for me. It captured my ‘issues’ to a tee (ball).” That statement remains correct.

WalesWoman	19 May 2005
What your reading did for me was look at some areas in my life that were bothering me and changing and difficult to face... things I don't like to deal with and would like to just go away. It brought up some things I did know and others that I wish I didn't and explained some of the reasons for why I am going through this period in my life. You didn't go into a lot of detail, but it was enough for me to know where to focus, and acted more like a trigger to open up areas I needed to look at. Your reading for me was the first one after this reading that has rocked you, so I felt the difference in your approach... you were in safe mode and seemed a bit cautious... of course after reading my PM... no wonder! I think I would have been a bit cautious as well on how to present this, in light of what I had asked you and with the cards that came up as well. All of them very difficult ones that would have made me cuss a bit and wonder how am I to approach this without saying to someone obviously having a spritiual crisis, that your life is coming unglued and falling about your ears... and this neccessary loss will result in some well needed chaos. Hey, my horoscope forecast says the same thing... in the words of Forrest Gump, life is a box of chocolates and shit happens. Good thing I wasn't asking a relationship question, no? But truth is... that reading did address not only what I asked but the reasons behind what is going on in all aspects of my world right now. IT did help answer my question... but I did have to recognize the areas I needed to see and think about it. Which was fine with me, once I started looking at it and thinking about it, all sorts of thoughts kept rolling in and gave me a lot of 'ah ha' moments. maybe you did spell it out and I had to think about what it was spelling. I have a hard time with that... a person I know would always spell out words she didnt' want to say in front of the kids when they were little, and I would practically have to write the letters out on paper and see them, before I knew what the heck she was trying to say. I'm a good speller, but my brain doesn't work like that, hearing the letters and connecting them into a word did not compute. So at first your reading was sort of a blank, nice but cryptic, until I started writing it out, putting those "letters" together and seeing what it was spelling, and then suddenly it became clearer and clearer.

mingbop	19 May 2005
holmes, wee canadian son of mine !!! you make people think. and maybe that one person did not want to--or was not equipped to - THINK ! And I have had this happen sometimes. But if we were always always totally right then we would lose the excitment of it. And why do you think that I, who have read tarot for zillions of years...always ask YOU first if I have a problem? hmm? xxxxx cheer up wee son, yer aw right !

Jewel-ry	19 May 2005
Holmes, Don't be sad :) You have never read for me but I have read some of the readings you have done for others and IMO you have always taken responsibility for your readings and they have always seemed to come from the heart. The very fact that I read your readings speaks mountains. I don't read everybody's but I respect what you say and I always feel you give so much, so please don't beat yourself up over this. I would be honored to have you read for me and volunteer to be first in line for your next bout of readings when you feel up to it :)

Free Flight	19 May 2005
HOLMES wrote: question for wales and freeflight. does deep level means it brought up issues, or like a big realization that needed to be mulled over and could i have presented it more loving , more postive or was the honesty what help you to realize it perhaps i can find a medium road. Hey Ho Holmes What you brought up were thins on a deep deep level that I had not considered apart from in my darker moments. It lead to a process of digging into my mind that made me think...oh yes that is right..now why was I not conscious of that process....It was very important at that moment :) You presented this in a kind loving way so I have no complaints :D :D xx FF

Cerulean	19 May 2005
Hello Holmes, you did a reading for me that involved my grandmother. 1. Did you feel I wasn't coming from the heart? Actually that was not a problem in my reading. Since this was a reading that involved linking through "intuitive feeling"--which some can call channeling---and it involved my strong perceptions and long years of knowing my grandmother, I felt the reading needed sincerity and close-knit family experience. Even if you did not know my grandmother personally, I did get a sense that you understood the close-kinship bonds of family. This was an experiment for you--but it was most appropriate to ask someone with long experience in a close family and community setting. A particular strength might be your reading was able to reflect her 'tone' and background in this way. 1. Have I ever been dimissive with you in readings i.e read from a superior tone (I think I try to read impartially and deliver the reading like a musican delivers the song)? Um, in my case, a grandmother is an elder and a nice person, her style of communicating is grandmotherly, so that filtered into the reading. If the caring had kind of paternal/maternal bent, frankly I did expect that tone. 2. Have I before not taken responsiblity for my reading with you do you feel No, I didn't get that feeling. 3. Have I used prewritten cards meanings or does it sound like I am reading from a book? No. 4. So based on three when I did my reading for you,, did you feel that I was using an cold reading techique saying opened stuff that could of meant for anything. You were puzzled about some details and asked--that was quite appropriate and made me feel you were quite involved in puzzling out the impressions you gained. 5. Did you really have to read the tarot readings twice or twice to give feedback? I always have to read others' takes more than once. 6.Any other insights you have to give ? For some reason, I am not certain if you use reversals in your readings. I think you have read for me at least once, if not twice. I think I enjoyed the interaction and giving feedback--the only thing I want to point out is sometimes you call me Mary/Maria instead of "Mari" (Mah-Ree). But otherwise, my suggestion is if you continue to ask questions when puzzled about details as the reading comes up, that's probably a good thing. Best regards, Cerulean Mari

Moongold	19 May 2005
HOLMES wrote: 0.did you feel i wasnt' comin from the heart? You have done quite a few readings for me over the years. I think you have always read from the heart. But I know you have a complex and thorough system as well. Holmes wrote: 1. have i ever been dimissive with you in readings i.e read from a superior tone (i think i try to read impartially and deliver the reading like a musican delivers the song No. Sometimes you said things that I did not like but they were correct. You simply said them as facts. No judgment attached to them. Holmes wrote: 2. have I before not taken responsiblity for my reading with you do you feel I think you have always been so thorough and given far more than I would have expected. Holmes wrote: 3. have i used prewritten cards meanings or does it sound like i am reading from a book? Nobody could ever accuse you of that. Holmes wrote: 4. so based on three when i did my reading for you,, did you feel that i was using an cold reading techique saying opened stuff that could of meant for anything. You read mostly for me in the first couple of years of membership here. Sometimes I didn't understand what you said but was too reserved to ask. You used to do very long readings and give so much information that it was hard for me to see that it was all relevant. I think you may have been channelling at the time. I always knew that I could have asked you but I picked out of the readings what I could easily identify with and left the rest. I was looking through the readings you did for me last night and understand much more now. Although I did not understand everything you said, I always got something quite profound from your readings, and that was enough. Holmes wrote: 5. did you really have to read the tarot readings twice or twice to give feedback? Yes, but I always do that, no matter who reads for me. A reading does not sink in with just one glance. Holmes wrote: 6.any other insights you have to give ? I think you are a very good reader. You have also had some brilliant insights into different aspects of the Tarot and have been extremely generous in the sharing of your knowledge. I also think you are a very good and decent person.

firemaiden	20 May 2005
Well, since you seem to want it all out in the open... the reading Holmes is talking about is the reading he did for me. I am sorry to see people dicusssing me and your reading for me, and going back to the same old thing "if she didn't agree with the reading, she must be in denial." No, no no. We discussed the reading at the time, and I said, it did not apply to me or my life and did not make sense. End of story. But you said I should go back and try to make it make sense for me. I think this is a bad idea. If the reading does not makes sense, why should I adjust my life to have it fit my life? Or if the reading shows me in a negative state, and I am in a positive state, should I try to get negative to make the reading work? It is too easy to say "you are in denial". I'm sorry. I'm not in denial. The reading didn't apply. Just because it didn't apply, doesn't mean that other readings you have done should be off. No, maybe you were just confused by the fact that I was playing a character in an opera. Maybe you read for the character instead of for me. I did not say you do not take responsibility Holmes, but I asked the question about taking responsibility, partly because you said you were only reporting the messages that came from the divine. In saying the divine is the one giving the messages you were skirting the fact that you were the one putting the message from the divine into words. The purpose of my post on the other thread was not to make you uncomfortable in any way, but merely to ask the philosphical question for myself, because you are not the only person who reads, and you are not the only person for whom the situation will be relevant and critical. I think it is an important question. Yes, we channel inspiration from the divine. Yet still, we must be aware that we are human, and not step away and say "I didn't say it, God did, and therefore it must be absolutely true". Well, then, what happens when what you said wasn't true? Its not a big deal!! People do readings every day that are inaccurate. I would say most of the readings I have done for myself and that others have done for me were innacurate, and most of the readings I have done for others had parts that were quite inaccurate. Yet we try to see how they apply to us, we say this part is right on, and we skip over the part that was dead wrong. In this case you chose very specific meanings for the cards that were too inflexible to allow you to read in a way that worked for me. You read the three of pentacles to mean work. That was a very literal meaning. You saw it upside down and chose to read it as a bad apprenticeship type of work. Unfortunately for your reading, the most wonderful work news that could be imagined had come to me, and I was beginning a wonderful new job, that is quite fulfilling. Now if you had read the three of pentacles reversed to mean something like "the end of a job search" - because work has been found, it would have made more sense... Or... if you had read the three pentacles, not as work, but as the participation in three spheres of existence, and the reversal as a change in the way these spheres mesh together or something it would have made more sense. Yes, I feel you limited yourself too much in your interpretation by sticking to very standard meanings, and not allowing your imagination the freedom to break out of the box.

firemaiden	20 May 2005
Holmes you have done many beautiful readings for many people. I just read the beautiful reading you did for Umbrae. Please don't take this all so personally. You can't do a perfect right on reading every time. You would have to be God. Nobody can be perfect all the time. Every one is going to find there is a reading which just doesn't work. It doesn't mean you have to put your whole self into question. Really it doesn't. However, I do think when its a reading that didn't fit, don't try to force it to fit. Its just off, so what... just don't give in to the temptation to make the sitter (in this case me) wrong.

Alta	20 May 2005
There's a Chinese story of an old man and his only son. One night the old man's horse escaped, and the neighbors came to comfort him in his loss. "How do you know this is a bad thing?" he asked them. Several days later his horse returned with a herd of wild horses. Now his friends came to congratulate the farmer for his good fortune. But the old man said, "How do you know this is a good thing?" While his son was trying to tame one of the wild horses, he was thrown and broke his leg. Again his friends gathered to bemoan his new misfortune. But the old man asked, "How do you know this is a bad thing?" Soon a warlord came to recruit able-bodied youth for his army, and the farmer's son escaped conscription because of his broken leg. In true fashion, the farmer's neighbors came and expressed their pleasure over the man's good luck. "How do you know it's a good thing?" he asked. The story can go on forever. What seems bad becomes good and vice versa.

Maggie Bell	20 May 2005
Holmes Before I answer your questions, I am going to repeat what I wrote in my PM feedback to you; I found your reading excellent and very pertinent to the issues I’m working with these days. This is not an attempt to gratify your ego or make you “feel better”. It’s the truth from my perspective. [quote=HOLMES]for example i know i been trying to put some of my own experiences into the readings the last six months in order to share energy.. perhaps people think i am putting my own issues into cards, and reading the cards to my issues..QUOTE] Most excellent. Shared energy connects us to one another. But to answer your question, how can you NOT put some of your experiences and opinions into a reading? I expect that from a reader, indeed, I want to know what you're thinking and feeling about the issues. HOLMES wrote: 0.did you feel i wasnt' comin from the heart? No. You are very much “of the heart” and to reinforce my opinion and remind you of your heart, here are some of your words to me: “… the creator is inspiring me to say that the love it sends to you is always there and needs no signal for it come to through. Embrace and rest in the creator and the mental wounds you have shall heal themselves…” “… remember that in our works we need spiritual friends to support us.. and sometimes we need non spiritual friends who can sing karaoke, let down their hair and say ENJOY LIFE.” HOLMES wrote: 1. have i ever been dimissive with you in readings i.e read from a superior tone (i think i try to read impartially and deliver the reading like a musican delivers the song No. HOLMES wrote: 2. have I before not taken responsiblity for my reading with you do you feel I don’t understand this question, Holmes. HOLMES wrote: 3. have i used prewritten cards meanings or does it sound like i am reading from a book? No. If you’re reading from a book, tell me the author and title. I want it. HOLMES wrote: 4. so based on three when i did my reading for you,, did you feel that i was using an cold reading techique saying opened stuff that could of meant for anything. Your reading spoke to my issues very clearly. And I quote: “… you have friends asking you to spend time with you,, and you feel that you have no time,, or perhaps they want to lower your energies... ” “… i feel that it is good to temper the queen of swords with the queen of cups, in order to avoid the mind becoming too detached from the personal… “ “… it is clear that to me that you having some judgements directed at you, and that is sort of having you put up the psychic defense …” “ …you have gone too long without taking a rest from life…” HOLMES wrote: 5. did you really have to read the tarot readings twice or twice to give feedback? Holmes, not only do I read my readings more than once, twice and thrice, sometimes it takes me weeks to respond to a reading. I have to absorb the information, live with it for awhile. In fact, there are two forum members who have yet to receive feedback from me because their readings were so in-depth, so complex that I am still mulling them over. Sometimes, I have to live the events or situations a reading speaks to before I can see the truth of the reading. Does this make sense to you? HOLMES wrote: 6.any other insights you have to give ? Reading online is problematic, in that there is no easy way to establish rapport with the seeker and we are prone to misinterpret someone’s written words. All the subtle nuances of human interaction that help us understand one another are missing in a forum setting like this. When we are face-to-face, we “give and take” and feedback in the form of body language and facial expressions is instant. HOLMES wrote: for the idea i don't take responsilibity for my readings has me so sadden and emotional that i dont' feel worthy of reading here any more Please, don’t go away. It sounds to me like there’s been a breakdown in communications that a good heart-to-heart PM or phone call will cure. Blessings to you, Maggie

Lady Maria	23 May 2005
Marion wrote: There's a Chinese story of an old man and his only son. One night the old man's horse escaped, and the neighbors came to comfort him in his loss. "How do you know this is a bad thing?" he asked them. Several days later his horse returned with a herd of wild horses. Now his friends came to congratulate the farmer for his good fortune. But the old man said, "How do you know this is a good thing?" While his son was trying to tame one of the wild horses, he was thrown and broke his leg. Again his friends gathered to bemoan his new misfortune. But the old man asked, "How do you know this is a bad thing?" Soon a warlord came to recruit able-bodied youth for his army, and the farmer's son escaped conscription because of his broken leg. In true fashion, the farmer's neighbors came and expressed their pleasure over the man's good luck. "How do you know it's a good thing?" he asked. The story can go on forever. What seems bad becomes good and vice versa. I just wanted to say, thank you for sharing this story. I read it a few days ago, and it keeps popping up in my mind. It's message is so true- and important to remember. Blessings, Lady Maria

HOLMES	23 May 2005
It was not my intent to make you wrong to the point of people saying "she is wrong for she doesnt' undestand the great holmes" this thread came from the idea of responsibility this quote from a differnt thread was read by me the night before "If I say : the reader cannot be wrong, the reader is merely reporting the word of [name of diety goes here]; or the reader cannot be wrong, the reader is merely reporting what the cards (and pre-written meanings) say -- how do I take responsibility?" by you, I am the reader who is not saying i can not be wrong,, but not totally wrong,, that i said the message came from the creator which i do believe they do, that i am reporting what the cards say, which i would do if i am doing a tarot card reading and not a channeling. that i use pre written meanings was brought up as well. so the indirect reference to me caused me to question myself. what more responsiblity can i take for i was taking it that it was being refered to i do not take responsiblities for my reading. it brought out issues which you see here in this thread.. which the sole intent was to really question myself am i really responsble, have i hurt others in my readings. and other questions came up for me like the cold reading techique which for me is alwasy a major one which i discussed with friends over the years. the next morning a kind friend helped me realize that i was getting really defensive, parnoid, that I thought for in the comments there that i was getting ganged up on. when all was going on was people were speaking to the issue. for the whole thread "Reflections and Opinions on the Process of Reading by a Tarot (A)gnostic. " was started from our chat in the chatroom. as a rule I try to keep chatroom discussion in the chatroom, pm in the pms and so i must admit that really got to me. why is that ? just differnce ways of seeing things, expressing things. and so back to the idea of responsbility.. what caused my big parnoia over it. the fact that a friend died after i gave him a reading two days after by commiting sucide. all those fears came up again,, what if i say the wrong say, what if i am totally wrong. and if so , how the hell can i ever read the tarot again. how i say to no one in particular but with all the energy i can muster. as i think back to those days the reading was based on sound tarot principles. yet the question comes back to mind. "if i go through with what i am planning what will happen " or something to that effect.. and not being able to get the thing out of him i read the cards in earnest for we were friends not close friends but friends and so how can he be like that there was no warning signs. so all i remember was the ending "the cards says things will look better for you in three days " he took his own life that weekend. gee whiz. so what more responsibility can i take , go get a counseling degree, pyschology degree, it is nothing you can advise,, just an issue that i have to work out for myself,, for I did readings where one statement can make a person break down start crying, or start talking like I was a counselor. and so now to look at your actual post,, i just had to get that off my chest ----------------------------------------------

HOLMES	23 May 2005
actually it wasn't the intent of this thread to discuss your reading in the open. for as i said this was response to the idea of responsiblity. I would say that for those who have said that it wasn't the denail here is my quote " It must of been me having an off day,, it did bring up some doubts that I was having before hand "what if people were just being nice and posting good feedback due to that niceness" which inevitably lead me to "perhaps i am not as good as i think i am" i wouldn't say it was because they didnt' want to see, for they look twice for me after i explained where i was coming from so the "responsbility" and onus falls back on me, and instead of saying "well damn that can't be" i decided to make this thread in order to improve my readings. " since it is all in the open,, it was when we were in chat, a discussion came up about a personal matter to which a light bulb went off in my head and so i suggested reading the reading again, (it would of been the emperess reversed ) to which a questioning of my readin style to which i answered everyone. and it was five o clock and so i left the chat room with this comment "if you think i do not come from love you don't know me" on to a question about coming from the heart. and log off for it was 5 am my time. i log on and saw the thread and wondered why not a pm and as mentioned in my other post it began my pushing of buttons. and so this thread was answer to a quote from that thread which was mentioned. what isnt' mentioned is in relation to that thread i wrote a big long pm to which you pm me "i promise you it doenst' apply to me" well a promise is a promise and i let it die. or so i thought to that quote in that thread a day or two after. that blew my mind "responsiblity" the idea i have is not to make it fit into your life, but to look for some subsconscious meaning, perhaps, or to look more deeply at your job to prepare for any sort of crisis. there is no way i could of read for the character but as you said it is over , the actual reading itself. firemaiden, you may not of said "HOLMES you don't take responsibility" but the quote given was from our chat and the issues you mentioned were the ones you asked me about i said the messages came from the divine (enter) and i interpeated the messages based on the cards and so aye the idea of the thread was to put the divine message into words. in no way did i say not say i was not interpating the cards. it is like when people read past lives based on the cards. firemaiden, the fact you didnt' use my name i saw it as an indirect reference to me, Yes i am not the only person, nor the only one who has reference to it perhaps, yet it does refer to me. you might say that your indirect reference to our former conversation(in chatroom) is what caused this thread , since you make it clear that it wasnt' intended to. it still triggered this thread, and look at how I am learning, what happens if what i said isnt' true, nothing for who wants their propehcy of doom to come true on others. yet if it can come true, i don't want people to put it off for readings is based on all the factors of the now. it may because i am a virgo,, it is like selective hearing,, we cant' be selective tarot reader,, and if it is we select to use only the good tarot readings that people give good feedbback on,, then it we are lying to ourselves. if one tells me i am wrong i can put it up to the odds and so be it,, but if two people tell me i am wrong then i can put it up to more then just the odds. and if four people tell me you are dead wrong holmes then heck i should put the cards up for the odds are i am totally wrong for others. I am saying totally wrong, not just wrong in one card or two for that happens a lot, or i am not simply interpating them right. dead wrong is not totally wrong for the rest of the readings were right so perahaps that one card i must look at for further study. i freely admit there are some cards that give me trouble heck even crowley admitted that which gave me the courage to do that. in your particular case, i will admit that the in the instance of the three of pentacles i could dead wrong, (but not the whole reading,, it is perhaps my stubborness) I worked hard to pick a literal meaning for each card in order give some praticality to their reading. there were other meanings there as well look ""so if your not as good as you want to be, perhaps you can lower your standards and realize that you are really very good but you are holding yourself to some ideal of perfection?"" isn't that a good postive message empowering? which came from work reversed, possible blockages to work? for when i first reading any card i am elimnating or exploring what the cards mean before i end it on a note. in regards to my literal meaning,, i use them as start places to jump off from. perhaps it was the putting of my own personal expereince into the reading that muddied it up. in retrospect if you have posted question right at the beginning i could of answered it in the feedback to your feedback. (which brings up another reason for this thread perhaps sometimes people hold back when they give feedback fearing sugarcoating it. ) now to second post thank you for saying i give beutiful messages, i shall continue to strive to do so. my goal is not to be perfect,,(though i am a virgo when things go wrong i want to know every inch, why, how, when, what, and how am i responsbile, ) but to be perfect as i can be. this isn't my first bad reading,, i had readings live when the distant past didnt' mean anything, nor the possible future , or the recent past, but then the next card sheds the light and so make the whole reading meaningful despite the one or two bad cards. I would say that this is my first totally off, dead wrong, no meaning at all in any of these cards that apply to me. still I would of let it go, and moved on but the other threads, the questions, which we could of let this go by pm or simple more feedback on the thread. or some notice that i am discussing what we discussed about in thread for while it doesnt' refer to you, does discuss what we discussed about in chat. who am i talk , i went and made this thread looking at how i am responsible so i am not calling the kettle black. YOU are not wrong,, all i wanted to do was i had an insight to what the card meant in chat and was so suggesting to look at it again and was about to explain it but was meant with something else. and so here we are.. i learnt some things about my reading style, some i knew like being more pratical, and some i didnt' know like the bolds and italics. i am uncomfortable with personal matters being discussed in the open like this, and so i feel it falls into the flame category or pm category. and so if the moderators feel they should delete this, or lock it, i understand. i learned what i had to to and will keep on learning. and not to the other feedback. edited to add change not to now

HOLMES	23 May 2005
thanks maggie again,, i didn't realize such sentaces can mean so much, for me when i make them i feel like i am being vague. aye, many times readings at the time can mean something months afterwards. yet the danger is when the reader tells you to move to chicago for it will be good,, ohh and drop that man for he is no good for (miss cleo eheh) to take that much responsiblity for one life is to much for anyone reader to take so my appraoch is to try to give as much insights based on a card, then choose one based on inuition and then move on. it is up to the client and their higher power what path they choose when they leave your door :) it is like that touch by angel espiode where andrew the angel of death told the man the truth that the creator loves him and so forth,, he left trusting the man to listen to his words, but still the man commited sucide. and then andrew was to go tell his widow what happend in those last moments but he couldnt' do it, and monica came to him and told andrew about the creator message of love and wisdom. it was what andrew already knew but his mind was blocking him, and so was about to "fall" or it was hinted at. finally andrew went to his widow and shared what happend in those last moments and still her husband acted upon that moment to do the opposite. the tarot readers like angels can take responsiblity only for their message and not for their clients lives for our job is to do our best we can, constantly improving our methods, our inuition.

firemaiden	24 May 2005
You never know, Holmes, maybe your reading will make sense to me further down the road. It could be that you were spot on, but just not for that week, perhaps your reading was predictive and I will recognise it in a week or two, or a month or a year. Don't lose heart. I promise, my thread and my questions, although inspired by our conversation, were not in anyway meant to make you uncomfortable. They were merely the result of questions that started to ferment in my mind in a more general level, about tarot and reading in general.

The for all those i have given readings to, questions and i can take it thread was originally posted on 19 May 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.