Do your Querents ruin your cards?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 Jun 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

closrapexa	14 Jun 2005
A few days ago I did a reading for some one, and when she shuffled, she took a few cards from the deck and pushed them between the cards that she had reamaining. Now, the way I shuffle is to take a part of the deck and bring it to end of the deck, not force them down like she did. Now, obviously I want my cards to last, but when I let others shuffle the cards, they don't always treat them as nice as I would wish them to. What do you do with this?

Chronata	14 Jun 2005
yeah...that's why I don't let the querant shuffle...just cut! I also know how to shuffle to keep all the cards upright, so I don't have to turn them all right side up when I pull them. I do this because of a revelation I had ...with my Aquarian and my Mythic...oh so long ago... Some people just never learned how to shuffle! Both of those early decks were almost ruined because of people shoving cards back into the deck, and bending them to do so. I also had someone knock over a candle while shuffling and set fire to my sleeve, and spill wax all over a beautiful vintage velvet cloth. Not worth it. It's just so much less stress to do the shuffling myself!

MeeWah	14 Jun 2005
I prefer to do the shuffling & have the client cut the cards, etc. Seems to work better for the focus & also avoids damage to the cards. & since I offer drinks at the onset of a session, I make sure to keep them away from the cards & elbows to avoid the spills. Nothing like a spill to dampen the spirit.

Umbrae	14 Jun 2005
So many folks have issues with shuffling a regular deck of cards… I like to shuffle till I’m ready… Then, you may direct the sitter to shuffle, “I want you to shuffle the cards…like this” and demonstrate an overhand shuffle (taking the deck in the right hand and peeling off small clumps into the left hand), and a running cut (Hindu shuffle). I get to riffle shuffle (or reverse faro shuffle). Remember, the sitter usually wants to help you help them – so demonstrate what you want them to do…then tell them “I want you to shuffle this way”…they will be happy to comply. If they start pushing cards into the deck – OMG – what to do? “Whoops…let me help…Tarot cards can be a tad stubborn sometimes…let me…” and yeah – always move the drinks far away…

tarotbear	14 Jun 2005
This is why I have a 'public' deck and a 'personal' deck. Once the public deck gets scuffed up enough, I can replace it. Can't replace a limited-editon, signed, numbered deck! Remember - just because you can handle a deck of tarot cards the size of placemats does not mean every adult who comes to your reading table can do likewise. Or knows 'how' to shuffle. Or isn't an inept clod. Let your public deck be as close to the size of a regular playing card deck and eliminate some of your problems.

Gwynne	14 Jun 2005
I let my sitters shuffle, but like tarotbear, I tend to only use specific decks for public readings. I'm not picky about how they shuffle, because I riffle shuffle myself. Now the Housewives is off limits for public shuffling, mainly because my husband bent one and I had to get a new deck....

inanna_tarot	14 Jun 2005
You bend my cards, I bend your face Only joking! I just let the querent cut the deck because you just cant trust people to shuffle them properly, and you dont know how clean someone's hands are. I think people would object to washing their hands before a reading lol. I never thought of spillages or candle/fire problems. Deary me, the general public can be a clumsy lot! Blessings, Sezo x

Ace	14 Jun 2005
I sympathize, closrapexa, I have had some of my Robin Wood cards split at the edges after treatment like you describe. But I think TarotBear is the closest to my own opinion: if you read for others, if you READ with a deck at all, it gets worn out. Read a lot, it wears out faster. I guess it is like comic books, these days people buy them to collect. And you can't collect them and read them too. I once was at a Comic sellers booth when a woman came up and commented on Batman: the Dark Knight. "I am thinking of buying another copy, so I can read it." Ace

tao51	14 Jun 2005
I rarely allow the querent to touch the cards. I shuffle a particular way; I wash my hands. I feel my cards are kept in good shape both physically and psychicly.--Tao

tmgrl2	14 Jun 2005
I always have my sitters shuffle... I usually am shuffling (riffling...which I learned as a little kid from my big poker-playing brothers) while we set up, begin.... Then I ask the sitter to shuffle...if they seem awkward, I do what Umbrae suggests and, for some, that can be a problem, when they want to force the cards into each other. Then I let them spread them on my table, mix them all up and slide them back together....then they cut... Now I don't worry about reversals, since I believe both upright and reversed meanings are in the upright card...so I turn them upright when I turn them up. Occasionally, near the end I will do a one or two card pull from Le Tarot Mystique..(22 Trumps only) When when of these comes out reversed, I often leave it...but then, it just depends on what strikes me at the moment. Oh, yes, I learned about drinks... I have a round oak table...small, but large enough for a CC, and that is in the office pushed near my big desk, which has a laminate top...the drinks all go on the desk back a ways.... I feel it is very important that my sitters handle the cards...sometimes, I have them draw the cards and set them in each position, although, usually, I do that myself. If I have someone that I feel might be particularly "skeptical" or "closed" I will often have them draw their own cards , place them face down, and we talk about how their energy pulled the cards they needed into the positions... Hooey? I don't know, but I want to build rapport and confidence and this type of sitter, so far, seems to like doing this.... Usually, the people are fine with shuffling and cutting and having me lay out the spread.... Except for my "routines"...(notepad, small discussion about my philosophy, finding out what they already know or expect from the Tarot)....the rest shapes itself as we progress. No rules...as they say at Outback...keeps things fresh and the imagination going and my spirit high and open. terri

Umbrae	14 Jun 2005
Ahhh yeah – the smoooooosh around the table – it’s nice when you have a table large enough to do that… You can tell they are unable to get their hands around the cards (especially like a VR or a Thoth…even a Medieval Scapini…ya have em just spread the cards around the table. It’s really a nice touch for them….

ros	14 Jun 2005
I always shuffle and the client cuts, I put the cards back together and spread them on the table. They pick their number of cards. No problems. Sometimes this is a chore, the cut and picking the cards. (but I don't know for whom...them or me!)LOL

stella01904	14 Jun 2005
MM ~ I don't drag my special decks around either, but even a replacable deck is about $20.00. I don't let clients shuffle. It's not even necessary, otherwise phone readings wouldn't work, online readings wouldn't work, and you wouldn't be able to read on current events without political figures, serial murder suspects and celebrities sitting at the table with you. Somebody wrote a book a long time ago and said "have the client shuffle" and nobody gave it much thought after that, it just kept getting repeated. But it's hooey. BB, Stella

Alta	14 Jun 2005
Like several here, I always shuffle and let them cut. I don't trust other people to shuffle my cards and not damage them. Seems to work fine.

tmgrl2	14 Jun 2005
I agree with what you are saying, stella....I don't think it matters to a good reading, if your sitter DOESN'T shuffle, or "smoosh" as Umbrae calls it... I do it as part of building up rapport...it gets a sometimes nervous querent, involved with something to do, an activity...while we chat and get going.... They love smooshing....by the way...the ones who say..."Oh I could never shuffle cards...." ....I hand over the deck to smoosh.... If you are protecting your decks...that is personal choice... I feel that if I have to throw out a deck....and get another, that's the worst that can happen....That's just me...I'm getting paid for the reading...way more than a deck costs.... But I don't believe that any of these rituals carry some kind of "it won't work unless I.... Or "It won't work if I...." I do it to involve my sitter early on....just my style... terri Smooshing is so cool...and safer for the cards...sometimes, they smoosh and I put them together...

Alissa	15 Jun 2005
I rarely have another shuffle during their reading, even though I don't mind if others touch my cards to look at them, etc. But yea, they may riffle shuffle a soft deck in a way I don't like, or mash on em like you described. Very rarely, for no good reason except I'm moved to in the moment, I will have them cut the deck, but otherwise... no, they don't "shuffle" my decks. Actually, you know... now that I think about it, the only times I ask a sitter to touch the cards is most often A. I am asking them to pull a card for themselves from the deck, or B. I am trying to engage a sitter who is really disconnected to the reading. Once I had a judge - like felony court judge - I was reading for. DAMN that man was a stone wall~! His SO wanted me to do a relationship reading for them both, and so I did... intimidated as all get-out. He sat there very stoney faced, (I'm sure he was fixing me with his "bench face"), not giving me anything, with his arms crossed over his chest and his legs crossed in his chair. To get him personally involved in the reading, "invested" is the pop-psychological term, I had him cut the deck. He did so with some care and thought, which I appreciated. As I picked up the deck, I prepared to shuffle again, and felt "NO~!" in my head, so I stopped shuffling and laid out one of the best, most complicated relationship readings ever. All from HIS cut. So HE was involved, it wasn't just the Tarot Reader, if that makes sense. But otherwise, I almost never have others shuffle for me much any more.

wizzle	15 Jun 2005
For those who shuffle themselves, let the client cut, who draws the cards? Do you deal the cards from the top of the deck? Pull a card from the bottom? Let the client pick a card or two? etc.

Marina	15 Jun 2005
I shuffle, the client cuts. I think it's the best way, because i don't enjoy using a deck i have a so-so connection just because the querent may destroy it when shuffling :p My Enchanted Tarot, for instance, is my older deck and it's kinda 'used' already. So i'm even more careful with it - only i shuffle. Also, i let the client draw the cards...they usually do it much more carefully then they shuffle, becuase they get anxious about which cards they'll get. I'll spread all the cards on the table and the client will choose. Yuko

Alissa	16 Jun 2005
wizzle wrote: For those who shuffle themselves, let the client cut, who draws the cards? Do you deal the cards from the top of the deck? Pull a card from the bottom? Let the client pick a card or two? etc. I got locked up a few years ago in the thought, "When do I know it's right to stop shuffling?" Sometimes I could sense it, other times, I only knew my own doubts. To remedy this, I began shuffling differently every time. Sometimes I shuffle and draw cards off the top of the deck for the spread. More often, I shuffle, and then split the deck to find each card, lay them face down (so I don't get too much input at once by looking at all of them) and repeat this for each card to be drawn in the spread. Sometimes I have jumpers that feel significant, and I use them. Sometimes I have plops of cards hit the floor that *don't* feel significant, they feel like I didn't have a good grip on my deck. Sometimes, only sometimes... I will have the querent pull a card, and will fan them magician style "Pick a card, any card...." This is most often A. a newbie, who wants a "card," so I make them draw their own daily, or B. I just concluded a reading, and the querent asks a different question, having received their input. So, I make them draw a card to answer their own question. (This tactic works well on several levels, esp. if you just finished a long reading, and the querent, always hungry for more, says, "Yea but what about Michelle? What did she think about it?" or some other kinda related question. I don't want to do another entire reading, but neither do I want to ignore their question. They seem to understand that by pulling one card, themselves, this is their answer - and that I'm not going to do another full reading. I have had to repeat single draws for multiple after-reading questions at times too. Once I had a 14 card spread - far larger than I normally lay - and then we pulled an additional 8 cards after the reading for the rest of his questions. That took awhile....)

Umbrae	16 Jun 2005
Back on track… If you simply hand a deck to a sitter – you’ve invited disaster. The cards are considerably larger than a 52-card deck. Yeah you may tell them to shuffle and cut… Many folks around here will have at one time heard me rant on about reading for another is a relationship – it’s an event – that it’s a conversation and not a monologue – that it is about rapport… So jeeze Louise folks…you demonstrate (like I said in an earlier post in this thread) “Just shuffle like this…” and demonstrate how not to damage the cards. Show them. Then give your clients a little credit. If they begin to abuse your cards you simply say, “Excellent!” and reach over and take them back. It’s not a big deal. Put down your gosh-darned books and learn to communicate with others.

Saturn's Winter	16 Jun 2005
Everytime i do a reading, i usually handle the cards. Unless i can trust a person to handle them with the same respect that i do, i usually dont let the querents touch them.....maybe once in a while just to cut the cards.

The Do your Querents ruin your cards? thread was originally posted on 14 Jun 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.