modifying a deck... sacrilegious?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 22 Jun 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

iseekserendipity	22 Jun 2005
hi. i hope i'm not wrong for starting a new thread to speak/ask about this but i didn't see any similar thread. i'm comfortable with my decisions, but wondered what others thought on the matter. i have several decks which i will not list here (they're on my profile!). in the case of two decks, i truly love the decks, but there is a little something i dislike. in the osho zen deck, i have trouble with the keywords on the cards. i adore this deck, and it really speaks to me when i read for myself on various subjects. until recently it was the one deck i'd use all the time. so i took a permanent black marker and blanked out the keywords/titles. and i love it. in the case of the world spirit, i've read several posts on what people like/dislike, and i agree for most of them. although i don't "love" the sun card, i don't mind it and can trick my eye into seeing a child. but the 10 of pentacles... i just have this horrible feeling in my guts when i see the pantless man, the smug - it seems that way in the context - smile and the children playing in front. maybe also because i'm on this side of the world, but it really makes me feel yuk... i considered that this could add something to when i pull this card, - "do i know someone who's been molested?" in this case since i reserve this deck to myself - but it just doesn't work with my vision of the 10 of pents unless ill dignified... very ill and no dignity at all. so i blacked out the man to give him a sort of mini short with my magical permanent black marker! now. all this to ask: do you consider it sacrilegious to modify a deck? i know we all have each our opinions, but i'm curious about that of others. for ages, when i read about people cutting cards or such, i was shocked. it felt like someone touching up a Dali/Picasso/Gauguin or such painting. like modifying someone's art. as if i recreated the end of a song to please me, rewrote the last chapter of my favorite book to suit me. some of us do this in our mind, but the Tarot ... ?

Alta	22 Jun 2005
Hi iseekserendipity, You were very clear with your examples, and clearly the steps you took made the deck a better reading deck for you. The artists themselves develop the images to give their idea of what the number and suit or Major represent, and you, as your own artist, can modify that concept. The cards are for you, they are yours. A workman can modify his tools if they don't function as he needs.

iseekserendipity	22 Jun 2005
thanks for replying Marion. even though i am confident that i've done this out of love for the decks, and because i want to use them and not have a silly block that stops me from connecting with them, it reasures me that i wasn't "too evil" in doing that... it's just that i guess when one uses the tarot a while, one tends to take it seriously, not in a deity concept but in something you respect. and like people i respect, i try not to change who they are, but rather accept them for what they are. i suppose i talk to them and connect with them so often i think of them as independant beings sometimes! :o)

Imagemaker	22 Jun 2005
It seems like the dogma of religions (of any kind) carry over a lot into feelings toward tarot cards. Worry/fear of changing the image, trimming the cards, disposing of old decks, covering keywords, etc. treats these pieces of mass-produced images like they're something *I* don't think they are. To respect a tool, use it responsibly, and to modify it to your purposes seems only sensible to me. To consider the cost of the deck, it's replaceability, and it's state of wear is sensible. But to put moral judgments (wrong vs right) on changing the cards, or to fear you "wrong" the tarot by doing that is not sensible to me. The spiritual power and wisdom we find in tarot is in the relationship we have with the cards--a metaphysical (literally: beyond the physical) situation, nothing to do with the actual physical cards, IMHO.

ricardozen	22 Jun 2005
Have you seen the motion picture called "Dogma"? It's a comedy where the mess around a bit with the image of christ altough they do not disrespect it. That's the essence of it. If we believe in something (IMHO) we may mess with it until the point we disrepect it. Have you felt that you disrespect the deck in any way? Do you still feel good with it? Do you feel bether now? Then it was ok. If you feel bad, then you did wrong. Your heart will be the best judge. Believe in him because he knows... Cheers, Zen

Jeanette	22 Jun 2005
I have only recently (and mostly due to hearing others doing it - peer pressure!) been able to take the Sharpie marker and make the pictures look like I want them to! And yes, I am much happier with the final image. But, I'm curious, how did you modify the Sun in the World Spirit? I hate that image of Richard Nixon!

zhahmi	22 Jun 2005
I don't see any difference in marking up your cards or trimming the sides down to a manageable shuffling deck. Once you've bought the cards, they're yours. I see no problem in modifying them to really make them belong to you. You could also do like me and if you really like the artwork of a deck, buy a second one that you don't read with and keep intact. Do what makes you feel right. Ultimately, you need to be comfortable with your deck. Light and learning, Zhahmi xoxo

Ace	22 Jun 2005
I can't find the threads, but several people (Fulgour? I think you were one) trimmed the edges off their decks. If they can do that, and not be struck by lightening, why not modify a deck to suit YOU. Some cut off the keywords, since they disliked it, and that helped them use the decks better. On the other hand, iseekserendipity wrote: in the case of the world spirit, i've read several posts on what people like/dislike, and i agree for most of them. although i don't "love" the sun card, i don't mind it and can trick my eye into seeing a child. but the 10 of pentacles... i just have this horrible feeling in my guts when i see the pantless man, the smug - it seems that way in the context - smile and the children playing in front. maybe also because i'm on this side of the world, but it really makes me feel yuk... i considered that this could add something to when i pull this card, - "do i know someone who's been molested?" in this case since i reserve this deck to myself - but it just doesn't work with my vision of the 10 of pents unless ill dignified... very ill and no dignity at all. so i blacked out the man to give him a sort of mini short with my magical permanent black marker! You may be picking up on something important to that person here. Rather than ignore it, try to see where it fits into a reading you are doing. IS there a molestation in the querent's past (Even yours?) I don't always like the people on decks. The Moon face in the Rider Waite used to frighten me a bit (she/He? looked so cold and cruel) and the girl on the 8 of swords was so smug it irritated me. But in a reading, they have their place. Watch for it, don't ignore it. Ace

iseekserendipity	23 Jun 2005
Jeanette wrote: I have only recently (and mostly due to hearing others doing it - peer pressure!) been able to take the Sharpie marker and make the pictures look like I want them to! And yes, I am much happier with the final image. But, I'm curious, how did you modify the Sun in the World Spirit? I hate that image of Richard Nixon! hello Jeanette, it so happens that i didn't! :) conveniently for me it seems i've gotten used to the card - which is good since it would be quite difficult to modify! my eye has learned to see a baby in that face, and when it doesn't, i see it as a symbolisms of "the child in each of us". strangely, although in the begining i was quite worried about "doing my deck wrong" by changing it, and latter feeling so much more comfortable with it that i knew it didn't matter, i've also found a way to work out the "no pants" issue into the meaning of the card. (i've posted something i thought of on the tarot study group/post for the card : ) so although i'm happy with my change, i now am considering wether i should have acted upon my dislike for it so quickly! then again i'm a libra, and that's why i posted about this on this thread. i'm happy with my choice, but it took me a while, and i wondered if a newbie or another libra had a similar hesitation, and thought that maybe the fact that others would give their views would help someone else be comfortable with their choice - whichever choice it may be! :D

iseekserendipity	23 Jun 2005
iseekserendipity wrote: (i've posted something i thought of on the tarot study group/post for the card : ) i forgot to post the link for those curious! silly me. http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6926&highlight=World+Spirit

rainwolf	23 Jun 2005
Cut away! Thats the only way I could truly appreciate some decks. I got a large thoth deck, promptly cut the edges, and now its like a big, comfy deck to read with. Besides, the borders were added by the publishers and are very very limiting. Don't be scared by anything in tarot, its like the one spiritualy thing I found where it has a "do what you like" policy without threats to go to hell (and no you wont go to tarot hell). Just give it a try. At first it will feel weird, but after a few cards, you will look at them and notice how DIFFERENT they look. They come alive and the story you are being told turns from a boring romance to a jane austen or stephen king--its amazing what happens! Sorry the pictures are so dark--i had to make it that way so i would not get a glare.

iseekserendipity	23 Jun 2005
Ace wrote: On the other hand, You may be picking up on something important to that person here. Rather than ignore it, try to see where it fits into a reading you are doing. IS there a molestation in the querent's past (Even yours?) I don't always like the people on decks. The Moon face in the Rider Waite used to frighten me a bit (she/He? looked so cold and cruel) and the girl on the 8 of swords was so smug it irritated me. But in a reading, they have their place. Watch for it, don't ignore it. Ace i know. and of course, it's only once i had colored it in that i considered that. i was so convinced that it just didn't work with my image/interpretation of the card... but of course, now i can see it fiting in! *sigh* sometimes i hate being a libra!

iseekserendipity	23 Jun 2005
rainwolf wrote: Cut away! Thats the only way I could truly appreciate some decks. I got a large thoth deck, promptly cut the edges, and now its like a big, comfy deck to read with. Besides, the borders were added by the publishers and are very very limiting. Don't be scared by anything in tarot, its like the one spiritualy thing I found where it has a "do what you like" policy without threats to go to hell (and no you wont go to tarot hell). Just give it a try. At first it will feel weird, but after a few cards, you will look at them and notice how DIFFERENT they look. They come alive and the story you are being told turns from a boring romance to a jane austen or stephen king--its amazing what happens! i've never considered cutting the borders on the Toth deck! i have the same issue than you had, i've gotten the big version, and one of the reason i use it so seldom is how hard it is to handle for me... thank you! and on the pics you sent, the pictures seem even more vibrant than they are now - and that's saying!

Sulis	23 Jun 2005
Hi iseekserendipity, I don't think there is anything wrong with modifying cards to suit you. I trimmed my DruidCraft because it was just too big and the trimming seemed to really help me connect with the deck; it really made it mine. It's different now to all the other DruidCraft decks. I too have thought of cutting the borders off the Thoth deck. As Rainwolf has said, it was the publishers who put those borders on. The borders don't particularly bother me, it's the keywords, some of them are just so negative. I think you may find this thread interesting: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=31217&highlight=time+Thoth Love Sulis xx

rainwolf	25 Jun 2005
Yes cutting the deck made it much more managable. I would still like to read crowley's book to understand the deck itself better, but besides that the pictures look more appealing as they JUMP out of the card. A note on cutting: Use big, sharp scissors. Start on a corner, and slowly make medium size cuts (use about half of the scissors) so that the tip doesn't make a large clip. On each side, cut past the end of the card so when you rotate the card does not get dinged at the corner. When you have cut them all out (careful--the corners are actually really really sharp), use a corner cutter (like a little stamp thing that you see in stationary stores) to finish it off. Then you have a beautiful new deck :D

Sulis	26 Jun 2005
I have a paper trimmer that I got from a craft shop. I've trimmed one deck with large scissors and one with the paper trimmer. The trimmer was much easier and much more accurate. Love Sulis xx

Lillie	26 Jun 2005
I have never heard of trimming decks till I came to AT, and my first reaction was shock. Not because it seemed sacreloigious, or anything that strong. it seemed sort of naughty. cutting up something that had cost good money. Especially for the thoth, cos I have always liked the borders and the key words, I couldn't imagine them without it. Mind you, I had always thought of getting a black marker and getting rid of the white keywords on the crow's magick deck. But now that I have seen Rainwolf's pics of the cut deck, well, they do look good like that. Amazing in fact. It would be nice to have some borderless cards that are the same size as the proper deck. I really like that bigness. I don't know if I could cut some. I'm cack handed sometimes, and it would only take one bad cut to wreck the whole deck. But now I have seen the pics, I am considering it. Maybe if I got a cheap tatty deck off ebay...

Marina	26 Jun 2005
rainwolf wrote: Cut away! Thats the only way I could truly appreciate some decks. I got a large thoth deck, promptly cut the edges, and now its like a big, comfy deck to read with. Besides, the borders were added by the publishers and are very very limiting. Don't be scared by anything in tarot, its like the one spiritualy thing I found where it has a "do what you like" policy without threats to go to hell (and no you wont go to tarot hell). Just give it a try. At first it will feel weird, but after a few cards, you will look at them and notice how DIFFERENT they look. They come alive and the story you are being told turns from a boring romance to a jane austen or stephen king--its amazing what happens! How did you cut the cards? It wasn't with your kitchen scissor, right :P? (unless you have a really precise kitchen scissor). No deck has bothered me enough for me to cut it...but i don't think i'd be afraid of doing it. I'm right now writing a book, and since i'm a poor (hehehe :laugh: ) college student, i'll need to cut it myself, or else they will charge me for the finish of the book. Anyway, the best way to cut is with those cutters with safety lock (i stole mine from my boyfriend) and with a metal ruler (not plastic ones! they have uneven edges). Now, thinking again, those borders of my Enchanted Tarot...hum...}) :TPW Yuko

iseekserendipity	27 Jun 2005
Thanks to all who wrote! Actually, reading some of the past posts, i suppose the best word, rather than "sacrilegious" is "naughty"... i tend to exagerate a lot! ;) i still have to do it though (trim my Toth). rainwolf wrote: A note on cutting: Use big, sharp scissors. Start on a corner, and slowly make medium size cuts (use about half of the scissors) so that the tip doesn't make a large clip. On each side, cut past the end of the card so when you rotate the card does not get dinged at the corner. When you have cut them all out (careful--the corners are actually really really sharp), use a corner cutter (like a little stamp thing that you see in stationary stores) to finish it off. Then you have a beautiful new deck :D Thanks for the explanation. i don't know where to find a corner cutter here in Madagascar, so i'm unsure how to go about it... i'm affraid to rush and do it not as well!

Jeanette	27 Jun 2005
Like somebody advised previously, maybe Sulis, I would go with a paper trimmer rather than scissors (and still use the corner gadget). You will get a much nicer edge.

Rosanne	27 Jun 2005
I have trimmed my green borders of the Thoth- but I have amended one deck ISeekSerendipity. The Osho Zen Heirphant- well the image is now a Jewelled Brooch of crescent/moon/crossTau/ I had a photo taken off on very thin laminate and had it pressed on to the card. It cost me about $6 to do it, but I am very happy with the result. Like the Thoth, the Osho Zen would not have been used unless changed. I think my changes are respectful to me. ~Rosanne

The modifying a deck... sacrilegious? thread was originally posted on 22 Jun 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.