Question about A.E. Waite meanings

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 28 Jun 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Grizabella	28 Jun 2005
I'm curious to know why the A.E. Waite meanings are so much different in a lot of cases than the meanings we find from other sources. I was reading some of the meanings in the LWB that came with my pocket Universal Waite and I was surprised how different they are. For instance, according to his meanings, the Star is a "bad" card, like Death and the Tower. Likewise with the three of wands, just to name three I can think of off the top of my head. (Sorry, my cards aren't right next to me right now.) If he originated the deck, I wonder why the meanings he intended have changed so much over time.

Flidais	28 Jun 2005
Lyric, I'm not sure who you mean when you say according to "his" meanings. Do you mean Waite or Kaplan, who wrote the LWB for the Universal Waite deck? Actually, I just reviewed Waite's Pictorial Key to the Tarot and the LWB for the Universal Waite deck, and did not see The Star presented as a "bad" card -- except for its Reversed meanings according to Kaplan and a comment by Waite which says a possible interpretation of the upright card is "loss, theft, privation, abandonment" -- after which he writes "another reading says -- hope and bright prospects." Also the card reversed, according to Waite, can mean "arrogance, haughtiness, impotence." It looks like a mixed bag to me, certainly not all negative. I guess that's not much help to you!

DoctorArcanus	28 Jun 2005
Since I just downloaded the Pictorial Key from this site http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/, I will quote what Waite writes about the Star :) The figure expresses eternal youth and beauty. ..... That which the figure communicates to the living scene is the substance of the heavens and the elements. It has been said truly that the mottoes of this card are "Waters of Life freely" and "Gifts of the Spirit." ..... For the majority of prepared minds, the figure will appear as the type of Truth unveiled, glorious in undying beauty, pouring on the waters of the soul some part and measure of her priceless possession. But she is in reality the Great Mother in the Kabalistic Sephira Binah, which is supernal Understanding, who communicates to the Sephiroth that are below in the measure that they can receive her influx.

tarotbear	28 Jun 2005
Dear Lyric~ First of all, do not accept everything Waite says as gospel just because 'he wrote the book.' Waite liked to 'lord things over' other people, particularly initiates, and it is generally accepted that his writings are full of 'blinds' so that 'all would NOT be revealed' to the casual reader, particularly neophytes, who would then 'learn the mysteries' and the 'truths.' Unfortunately, Waite died without ever letting anyone know what they were. A lot of Golden Dawn members took their secrets to their graves.

Grizabella	28 Jun 2005
Thanks for all the input. Here's what the LWB for the pocket Universal Waite says about the Star: "Loss, theft, privation, abandonment, although another reading suggest hope and bright prospects in the future." I just wondered why it would give that gloomy meaning first, but maybe it's just that the LWB is so tiny they couldn't fit in more. It's true that there are both positive and negative traits listed for most of the cards in the upright position, though, as well as in the reversed position. Maybe it's just that this LWB is too small to elaborate on what the author really meant adequately. I have a copy of Key to the Tarot, too. I've never really paid a lot of attention to it, though, and have read more by modern authors for this deck. Maybe that's why I was surprised.

Flidais	28 Jun 2005
Wow -- I find it odd that the LWB for the pocket Universal Waite is different from the LWB for the standard-size deck! Why wouldn't they use the same meanings for both versions?!? The meanings quoted by Doctor Arcanus are in the front part of the PKT, or "main section" if you will. The meaning Lyric gave is in the back of Waite's Pictorial Key to the Tarot (PKT), under "The Greater Arcana and their Divinatory Meanings," beginning on page 283. I wonder if all the meanings in the LWB for the pocket Universal are from this "back section" of PKT rather than the "main section"? And if so, why?

The Question about A.E. Waite meanings thread was originally posted on 28 Jun 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.