Reading for Non-human personages - or NWN on Tarot

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Jun 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Alissa	03 Jun 2005
I thought I might share with AT the results of an experiment I tried on another forum, one dedicated to a server where the game NeverWinter Nights is played. In the Role Playing section of their forums, last March I began a thread offering to read for others and/or for their characters, 3 card readings on any topic they chose. The thread is written in a narrative form, and at the end of each post, I gave out-of-character instructions and feedback, as necessary. I was quite curious what would happen if I read for non-people, that is, their characters and not themselves. Could I do it? Would it work? What would be the results? It was fascinating. For several months, I read for a dozen characters or so, and found the results intriguing. Overall, my discovery was yes, you can read for a character and not the individual who plays it. And no, you cannot. There were many crossovers as I read, and once the reading was posted, I would sometimes get private feedback from the players who would share certain aspects of what I had seen. In almost every reading, the messages that I was giving were true on dual levels, they were true for the character, but they were also true for the player. This was a result I had never expected to find! Multi-layered readings. The thread's stories and responses are all narrated from a role playing point of view, which also was a fascinating new way to present a reading to an individual, I found. And, the fact that my character is a sorceress allowed me to have some magickal fun in my readings by animating my cards, having them shuffle themselves in midair without touching them, and other neat things that normal life readings never provide. Has anyone else ever tried such a thing? I've read for plotlines for my own writing, as a creative endeavor, but never tried to read for the future of a character, especially someone else's. Have you? :) If so, what did you find? (My guess is this topic won't catch many's fancy, and so I'm not gonna get any responses to this thread, but I thought I'd share it anyhow for the 1 or 2 people who might find it entertaining....)

Imagemaker	03 Jun 2005
Somewhere in "your readings" someone posted about going with a friend, choosing from 1 of 2 readers, and discovering (with Thirteen's brilliant interpretation) that the reading was for the friend's game character instead of his real-life self. (The guy lived in his character a LOT of the time.) If anyone could find that thread, it was fascinating.

closrapexa	03 Jun 2005
I think thats a GREAT idea. Really lightens up the whole "Tarot-reading-fatalism-ok-this-is-serious-bit"! Makes you remeber that Tarot can be fun as well!

Imagemaker	03 Jun 2005
I looked for the thread and didn't find it in "your readings"--it was about choosing a reader and wondering why her reading seemed so off, until they realized she was reading his character, not him. So it's in a different place, I think. Oh, well, maybe someone will remember. Remember when we did the readings for fairy tale characters? That was such fun. I did one for why the witch in Hansel and Gretal did what she did. Maybe I can find that! (off to search) found it! This was reading was done with a Marseilles deck, which I seldom use. The non-peopled minors brought up a different slant than I'd have gotten from an RWS deck.

Alissa	03 Jun 2005
Love that reading Imagemaker~!!!! It conveys some of the fun and discovery I felt, and just like closrapexa says. And it DID take out the "this is Very Serious Business" atmosphere, but at the same time, the readings themselves left many of my sitters quite shaken. As a reader, the readings "felt" legitimate. For a few, I was moved to tears while reading, such was my emotional empathic response. But I never got the "I have no idea what the hell this is" feeling, which part of me wondered if I would get... just scrambled messages. Instead, they were very clear, and often very moving readings. Also, I think there is something psychological in the fact that primarily, those who sat with my character were playing *their* favorite characters... and those favorites were usually based quite a lot on who the player really was - an elven cleric, a half orc barbarian, these were aspects of their truest personalities, if that makes sense. Just as my character is a red headed sorceress with a smart-mouth who reads the cards as part of her personal magick. So the duality in the readings existed. The character was part of the player, an extension of them, without really being a part of him/her. So the messages were often for Both of them. And, actually, this lead me back to a conversation I had long ago with Umbrae. The jist of it was (I'll sum up) wouldn't it be interesting if our Higher Selves are not unlike us when we play a role playing game? We find a character that represents part of All That We Are, and then discover the strengths and weaknesses in that one aspect of us. So now I picture my Higher Self sitting in her gaming pod in the Great Beyonds, sipping astral versions of Diet Cokes and smoking cigarettes while she watches me run around my crazy little life, right here and now. ;)

Imagemaker	03 Jun 2005
Makes perfect sense to me. I totally see this life as a video game where we are the character trying to figure things out, having penalties and frustrations, and gathering tools and friends to help us. Must go do a reading on my Higher Self's situation. Now if only I had that Lemony Snickett comedy deck . . .

Chronata	03 Jun 2005
Thanks for the post, Alissa! I have always found this to be a fascinating subject... The difference between a person and the character that they role play. Because yes...you will find some intriguing things hidden in a person's psyche...and reasons for why people make the choices that they do. My own role playing reading experience is for a taple top RPG (can't afford the Multiplayer Online thing!)known as 7th Sea. It is a game where tarot can feature rather prominently in how a character is created, and what he or she believes. Some characters, callled fate witches use tarot ideas, and the archetypes to change things around them. I have also once done an extensive astrology chart for someon'e character...and discovered a few too many secrets that were not supposed to be revealed yet! Heh. That has happened a lot with Live Action Role Playing situations as well. A reading tends to reveal not only the player's motives for playing the character that they do...but hidden secret information too. Imagemaker...that fairy tale reading idea is so cool! Thanks for the link!

The Dreamer	03 Jun 2005
I think the thread you looked for first, Imagemaker, is [thread=41599]this one[/thread] There was also some mention of doing readings for the characters in the first novel for the AT bookclub thread, but no one ever did it. This reading for fictional characters is a fascinating idea. It makes me wonder (yet again) what is going on, and what makes the whole thing work. Adds another wrinkle to things. The whole "how real is our imagined reality" thing. Or maybe it's not a matter of real, but just a matter of the readings reflecting what is important to people. The self as character idea is interesting. If we're a transcendent spiritual being, our regular "self" is just a character we play. Or, all of us are all of the characters. Or whatever. I've never liked the idea of being controlled by some author in the sky, though. I'm actually not a big fan of fiction, but so many think that it is one of the best ways to get to the real truth. Maybe. It's a way of playing things out and exploring and creating things, in any case.

Imagemaker	03 Jun 2005
Yes, that's it! And I went back to edit my post and credit Thirteen for her clear insight! Quote: I've never liked the idea of being controlled by some author in the sky, though. To me there's very little element of being "controlled" by the Higher Self. I see it as my soul choosing this character to play, and then living my life, learning things, and dealing with what I've (at the higher level) chosen. And after the game ends, we consider how it went and figure out what we want to learn in the next game.

Alissa	03 Jun 2005
Chronata wrote: Heh. That has happened a lot with Live Action Role Playing situations as well. A reading tends to reveal not only the player's motives for playing the character that they do...but hidden secret information too. Yes yes yes and yes!!! Some folks seemed to think that they could "hide" what they wanted when they sat with me, and unfortunately, I got a lot of information that was *too personal*. This was unusual also, for me as a reader, as I don't usually tap into a void of possibility when I read, but rather, focus the question to get focused results. These readings, they brought up things I had no business knowing... and once seen, I couldn't un-know them either. For this reason, I requested the reading thread to be closed, as I felt my experiment was over. The Dreamer wrote: I've never liked the idea of being controlled by some author in the sky, though. I can appreciate this... but I see it upside down from that (esp. since I *am* a writer). I see myself as writing the best novel for myself ever ever EVER, and giving it to myself like a gift, waiting for me to get to the last page, anticipating and yet never knowing what I've already written for myself, what's coming next, at the same time. If I felt someone else were controlling me... that would piss me off. ;) But since I know *I* am controlling Alissa, I'm cool. I'm in my own hands, and I know how much I love myself.... ;) So I'm fine. Off to check that reading now... thank you for finding it! (And thank you all for responding... I really expected no one would know what the hell I was talking about....) editted to add: Great thread!! yes, that sums it up, that reading experience. My readings weren't "off" liek that one... they were too on, if that makes sense. But yes, gamers are notorious for "becoming" their characters, and living a more "real" life with and through them than their IRL lives. I've seen this too. It's not unlike an AT addiction, you just become so damn comfortable in one particular setting, one aspect of yourself that you wish to explore and explore, that you don't want to really focus on anything else. And, as a performer and a writer, I appreciated the other thread's points about having difficulty removing yourself from one world to come back to this one. When you invest so much of your personal energy, even in a "make believe world" (be that make believe of being onstage, or make believe of RPing in a game) there is too much put into the effort to really just turn it on and off like a switch. I've had (written) characters in progress who have made me nuts, for example, with their ranting and raving, and screaming and crying and hysteria, until it bleeds into my life, my moods and my psyche! ;)

Lee	03 Jun 2005
A few years ago, I used to practice reading by doing readings for characters on a soap opera I watched ("All My Children"). It was an interesting process, because unlike fictional characters in books or films, soap opera characters' storylines just sort of go on and on, like real life -- although obviously not like real life in other aspects. Actually, the ultra-melodramatic plotlines worked well with RWS-type decks with their dramatic pictures. Whereas in real life one wouldn't expect that someone could end up with ten swords in their back, it's much more likely on a soap! It was a good opportunity to use the "lawsuits" meaning traditionally attributed to the Justice card, since there are so many courtroom scenes in soaps. It was also an interesting exercise to look at the characters and try to figure out which card they best represented. For example, Erica (Susan Lucci) made a great Empress! -- Lee

firemaiden	03 Jun 2005
Interesting thread, Alissa. I have sometimes thought when readings done for me seemed not to apply to me personally, that they would apply better to the character I was currently playing.

Alissa	03 Jun 2005
Soap opera readings... now *that* would be complicated! ;) Wouldn't it be interesting to see what parts of your readings would fit both the character *and* the actor, if you only knew? (And I don't even watch it, but Susan Lucci is a Goddess, and the Empress works for me....) ;) I've never had that one happen for me, fire... curious indeed.

mercenary30	03 Jun 2005
On a number of occasions I have had people do readings, or interpret a reading during my Paul the Tarot Mage stories. I know this is slightly different, as those characters are completely fictional, and although the story is based on characters in a RoleMaster game I started with my kids, the story line has gone way past where we left off with the campaign. That reminds me….I need to get my next installment done. Excuse me, I need to go write some Paul…. ;)

Emeraldgirl	06 Jun 2005
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh soap opera readings that could be really interesting depending on the soap (thinking O.C. here) As I said in another thread I think when people are role playing or even acting in a play or whatever they pick up part of the character which carries over to "real life". I have a friend who's an actress and it drives me batty at times reading for her.

Satori	06 Jun 2005
You know, my dog, Maija, has been in pain over some arthritis for a few weeks now. And our other dog tucker died a few years ago, and he was her lifelong love. I've often wondered how she feels about things, especially because when my children were born we paid the dogs a different kind of attention... I'm not sure I want to try this reading on my own tho...she may be mad at me and I wouldn't want to read that!

PlatinumDove	06 Jun 2005
I used to do this all the time. I had a character on a player-run shard of Ultima Online that was a priestess, and would use the cards and runes for the readings. It was actually very accurate, and great practice for me, because it took the pressure off of me.

Satori	06 Jun 2005
Interesting aside: During a reading for a client it came up in the reading that she was having some difficulty developing a character or understanding the character she was writing for her book. It seemed that Tarot was encouraging her to get an astrological chart done for the character!!! I told her this, and I was thinking this was a little weird, but she loved the idea. She contacted me later to hook her up with an astrologer, and I sent her to Isthmus Nekoi. Don't know what came of it...

elancl	07 Jun 2005
*takes a deep breath and plunges into posting after lurking for several weeks* I had the privelege of partaking in Alissa's experiment as one of the characters, and it was fascinating to see the results as they corresponded to both my character and to myself. I haven't told her (I am now, my dear!), but after her prodding got me to look into tarot myself, I followed the thread and did my own readings for those who posted publicly. As a novice reader I found it an interesting way to see how my reading for the same question might be the same or different from her "expert" reading. A couple of times I had one of the same cards turn up. Other cards were generally related to hers (but aren't all the cards related a little? :P). Some, at least to me, were completely different. Unfortunately, specific correlations are lost due to a move, or I would post examples. It was an interesting experiment, and I am glad I was involved in it. It's also been fascinating reading the other threads and reminisces people referenced in this thread. I can't imagine doing a reading for Erika Kane! lol Thanks, Alissa, for the fun. It's unfortunate that it's not continuing, but I completely understand your reasons for stopping. Thanks again.

Alissa	07 Jun 2005
elancl wrote: Thanks, Alissa, for the fun. It's unfortunate that it's not continuing, but I completely understand your reasons for stopping. Thanks again. (((((((((elancl)))))))) What a joy and treasure to see you here.... :D :D I am so glad you stopped lurking~! ;) The experiment is over... for now. I know better than to use the word "never" though, and I loved hearing about your own followup experiments, how cool is that!!! And I find it fascinating to hear several of the same cards came up repeatedly. This, to me, only confirms that an energetic pattern, no matter who it applies to, is valid... all by itself - which is my way of saying, a 7 of wands is a 7 or wands... no matter who it applies itself too. Hope you don't stay quiet now that you've spoken up.

The Reading for Non-human personages - or NWN on Tarot thread was originally posted on 03 Jun 2005 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.