gospel of Thomas

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 27 Apr 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

destinyawaitsme	27 Apr 2002
Hey, I actually read this on the internet the other day..and I was at a friend's house and we watched Stigmata (a movie..pretty good imo) which had this gospel in it. Have any of you ever read it? It's really interesting. It was considered heresy by the Catholic church and never was included in the Bible. It really made me think a lot about Christianity....that maybe there isn't anything wrong with it, just the people who lead it! Which I'm sure everyone can agree. I just wanted to know if anyone had read this and what they thought about it. I actually found out about it through a pagan/witchcraft site.

truthsayer	27 Apr 2002
it's been a while since i watched stigmata. i vaguely remember what you are talking about. do you happen to have the addy to the website so i can read it? thanks!

destinyawaitsme	27 Apr 2002
it's right here http://www.misericordia.edu/users/davies/thomas/Trans.htm

Malachite	28 Apr 2002
Up until last week I had a Thomas page bookmarked, but I got rid of it in a clean-up... The quotes from 'Stigmata' are not all found at the beginning of the text...the most famous is quote #77. I guess the film-makers used poetic license to edit it, although I do have a friend who has decided that all the copies of the GoT have been changed by the Catholic Church as part of a vast conspiracy....*sigh*...To be honest, I think they've already done what they want to with it...hardly anyone knows about it, two thousand years after it was written... There are also the 'Apocrypha', a group of religious books that have either been part of the Bible, and are now separated, or never officially made it in... And also the Books of Enoch, which were included in the Old Testament until the early centuries AD...I think they were removed from the Torah as well...

Kiama	28 Apr 2002
And, I woud be that friend Malachite speaks of! There are some Nag Hammadi scrolls still being held by he Vatican, the contents of which haven't been revealed... Nobody knows quite why, and there are some crazy specualtions such as they contain prophecies of the end of the world, but I don't believe that. (The book of Revelations does, and that's shown to us!) The Gospel of St Thomas is said by scholars to be the closest to the actual words of Jesus Christ that we know of. There are many sayings in it which would destroy quite alot of the Catholic and Jewish tradition. Jesus, in this Gospel, says that if circumcision were really needed as Jews think so, then God would create baby boys ready-circumcised to save us the trouble! (Verse 53.) The words from Stigmata which were in the Gospel are as follows: "The Kingdom of God is within you, and all around you. Not within buildings of wood, or stone. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and there you shall find me." Of course, this has implications for the institution of the Church itself. (As shown in Stigmata- I loved this film!) There are lots of books from Nag Hammadi, the Dead Sea Caves, and those which are in the Apocrypha, which have been branded heretical by the Vatican... I would love to know why! I mean, these gospels were written before the first 'draft' of the Bible was put together by Bishop Eusebias around the 5th century.... (I think) But because of what Catholic tradition of the present day says, these books are still heretical... It just seems sad to me that whilst one book can be inspired by God, and another the work of a heretic with a chip on his/her shoulder, all he while we have humans deciding what is God's word and what isn't. How on Earth can a human know the Infinite and what Its word is? There's a question for the theologians out there. Kiama

destinyawaitsme	28 Apr 2002
Exactly! I jsut found this so interesting because it referred to God as more of a great force that was within all of us, in nature, Earth, all matter, etc.(which is what I've always thought) Instead of a big man with a beard sitting on a throne in a cloud somewhere. I posted this because I was curious as to what anyone here thought about it.

Liliana	28 Apr 2002
I happen to love all these "lost" books, being the eclectic Christian I am. But a lot of it contains stuff the church doesnt want us to believe in because it threatens their power. I know I can approach and worship God in my own private ritual as well as a priest can in church, but I do still go to church for the learing and to be with others. I likethe Gospel of Mary (Magdelene) I believe thats the one where all the disciples got jealous cause Jesus would kiss Mary Magdalene on the lips often, and asked why Jesus didnt kiss them like that, and you all can see Jesus rolling his eyes at that lol, definately not included because we are "supposed" to think Jesus never had an earthly relationship.

truthsayer	28 Apr 2002
i really don't know what to think about the controversy except this: there's never been a shadow of doubt in my mind that what the Bible started out as is not what the Bible is today. i think that it was set up to support a specific doctrine. there's this peice on jesus, that i'm going to dig up and put here. it's really thought provoking and definitely not what you might think. it's from "the brothers karazmakov". spelling? i could go along w/ a conspiracy theory but right now i am conspiracy theoried out. the assassination of JFK, UFO's, etc. if you ever want a healthy dose of paranoia watch the X-files. i could almost swear there was a show addressing this topic. i do want to watch stigmata again. since i now know that the heroine survives the wrath of the catholic church. i can be such a chicken with horror or action movies!

Kiama	28 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by truthsayer since i now know that the heroine survives the wrath of the catholic church. i can be such a chicken with horror or action movies! I don't get on at all well with horror movies either, so I was a bit sceptical about waching this one at first... But then I was coerced into it and bribed with chocolate, so I gave in... I found it wasn't really horror or action.. It's drama, but with a twist.. I don't quite know what genre you could call it. Thre are no really scary bits or spooky bits, justs lots of emotive and interesting and thought provoking bits. I can guarantee you, you won't be able to take your eyes off the screen though! Enjoy! Kiama Ps- I'm not usually paranoid or into conspiracy! Its just that this one, to me, has all the evidence and signs of it... (Please don't think I'm insane! ;) )

Major Tom	29 Apr 2002
Of course, what Thomas was really saying is that God is everything.... :)

Kiama	29 Apr 2002
Of course, we all know that St Thomas was merely palgairising you, Major Tom! ;) Kiama

The gospel of Thomas thread was originally posted on 27 Apr 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.