What What What??????!!!!!!!!!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Apr 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	03 Apr 2002
I'm doing a 4 day Firat Aid At Work course this week (Hence my apparant absence from Aeclectic!) and I'm finding out some rather shocking things... I've been doing First Aid since I was 8, through St John's Ambulance. So, I've gone through 9 years of procedure changing, and pretty much know everything there is to know about it! Except for the legalities.... I am shocked at how many things we are legally not allowed to do! It is illegal to take out a splinter, it is illegal to hug an injured child.... Apparantly, taking a spinter out is a surgical operation, and we can be sued for doing it, if it gets infected afterwards, and then hugging a crying child is equally dangerus, cuz you might just turn around and decide to molest them whilst your at it. We're first aiders for goodness sake, and this is just getting beyond a joke! We are also not allowed to administer a casualties' adrenalin shot if they are in anaphylactic shck, cuz that too is a surgical procedure, and although any person, even a child, could work out how to do it, we are not properly trained to do it, so its illegal! Well, sorry legal guys, but if there's a guy who's wind pipe is swelling up to the extent that he cannot breathe cuz he's in anaphylactic shock, I'm gonna give him that bloody adrenalin, regardless! What is going on? Is the whole world really ready to pounce on you, the moment you make a mistake, even though you might've saved somebody's life? Oh, I'm terribly sorry I gave you a nasty bruise in your leg from the adrenalin injection mate, next time you want your life savng, don't call me! As far as I'm concerned, its getting just too much. As a First Aider in the workplace, or a volunteer First Aider for St Johns you have enough to worry about, without being in constant fear of being sued! AGHAGHAGAHGAH!!!!!!!!! Kiama

Umbrae	03 Apr 2002
Helpful first aid hint: if you receive a bee sting, and are going into anaphylactic shock, start up your car, and pull out a spark-plug wire. You will receive a shock. It will neutralize the poison. Of course there is a risk of having your heart stop, but you would have died anyway…so sue me.

purplelady	03 Apr 2002
One word : Lawyers , Lawyers , Lawyers

funkpuss	03 Apr 2002
Years ago when I was a Dental Nurse I had to a First Aid course and it had changes so much from the last time I done one. I think it will change again + most people forget things if you don't have a refresher. Good Luck! FP

Kiama	03 Apr 2002
Umbrae: I don't think that the spark plug thing would work... I wouldn't place my chances on it! The anaphylactic shock is the swelling of the inside of the windpipe, causing the person to be unable to get as much breath in as needed. An electric shock would probably worsen the condition, and another factor is that most anaphylactic shock vitims don't have any strength to do anything when it hits! Even if a phone is right by them, they don't have the strength to pick it up and dial for an ambulance, let alone get spark plug out and shock themselves! Funkpss: Yes, it does change alot! I did my last course in December and they've changed it since then! Since I've been doing it, the Recovery Position has changed 8 times, the CPR and Resus. procedure has changed 11 times, quite a few bandages have changed, and the legalities have changed too! Its sometimes unable to keep up with it! Thanks for your good luck wishes. I'm sure I'll do fine! Its all going in, I'm remembering it, but then, I've alread had plenty of experience, so there's not really much left to learn which is new to me! I was the only one in the class to get full marks on the revision test this morning, so I'm quite chuffed! Kiama

slinky_jo	04 Apr 2002
Where does this leave a certified, trained veterinary nurse then, huh huh huh?!?!? ;)

Umbrae	04 Apr 2002
Sir, it is with regret that I must apologize. I know what anaphylactic shock, is and does. Not any electric shock works. Spark plug wires are high voltage DC. Neutralizes the poison. Talk to a doctor. They will tell you they do not recommend it (do it during the wrong heart cycle and the sucker will freeze up on ya)…but yup. Stops and reverses anaphylactic shock. It is what you use if you are stuck in the woods with no bee kit. I know this for a fact.

Scorpion	04 Apr 2002
Hi, Kiama! First off, congratulations on the test results! I completed my third FAW renewal last week and dread it every time - it's always changed so much and I just seize up in practical exams! As you say, everything's getting more litigious and we just have to be so much more careful these days. On the other hand, I was almost amused to see that we're now being told not to bother to check for the pulse (for those of you non-first aiders, it's apparently because (a) your own pulse rate is going to be hammering so hard you won't be able to find the casualty's and (b) if you have to check for a pulse it's because they're not breathing and if they're not breathing they aren't going to have a pulse for long!) so it's straight down to CPR - which we were always being warned was a very dangerous procedure because of the likelihood of punctured lungs etc. So, in theory, your casualty comes round and promptly sues you for the damage caused to their vital organs - Catch 22! In fact, a nurse who took one of my training sessions told us about the time she was off-duty and save the life of a motorcyclist who threatened to sue her for the damage she'd caused to his brand new leathers - her response was to offer to bill him for her time and expertise: I understand he soon backed down! Fortunately, I haven't had to deal with anything too serious at work and the firm's policy is virtually "whatever it is, get them to hospital", which I have been grateful for from time to time. Anyway, you're obviously doing a good job Kiama - I'm sure this will be just another "string" to add to your already impressive "bow"!

Kiama	04 Apr 2002
Umbrae: No disrespespect here, but I'm gonna continue this mini-dicussion about Spark plugs. The priority you have when you are in anaphylactic shock is not the posion in your body! Its onl a bee sting, and not a bad as what could happen, eg- the wind pipe swells up so much that you can't breathe at all. Your main priority is not neutralising that poison, but getting air into the casualty. The 'bee kits' you speak of are not used in First Aid in the UK. We are just what the title says: FIRST aiders, not doctors! We leave the complete recovery to the docs down at A and E. Our job is to get that casualty to A and E ALIVE! Wasting your time with spark plugs isn't gonna do the trick! And again, if you're on your own and are having anaphylactic shock, you will not have the strength to do anything... You will be suffering from Hypoxia (Lack of oxygen) for one thing, which will slow you and your brain down immensely, and you will panic. No matter how calm you think you will be, I can guarantee you will panic. Its the body's natural defence mechanism : Slow you down to conserve oxygen, make you panic so others see something's wrong. I told three First Aid trainers about the Spark Plug thing. One nearly died of laughter, and another told me NEVER to go near him if he was in anaphlactic shock! ;) Loui Q: Cracked and broken ribs are necessary for CPR, infortunately, however, they are the last on your priority list! Your priority is getting the blood pumping to the lungs, to get oxygen round the body. It is also quite rare to get punctured lungs through it. My trainer was a mortician, and he saw loads of people who had been given CPR. All had cracked ribs. One, in all his time there, had a punctured lung aswell. But hey, you can survive on one lung....! We are being told not to check for a pulse, and check for Life Signs instead now, a procedure which the old hands, including me disagree strongly with. It really is for those who haven't had much experience taking pulses. Checking for life signs incudes looking at the pupils for reaction to light, checking for a heart beat, checking the circulation by pinching the fingernails, looking at skin and lip colour... However, I think this is very ambiguous, cuz I have a friend who suffers from the disorder of the circulation called Raynode's, or something, which means her circulation is poor, so her lips and skin goes pale and blue if she's cold, even though she's got a pulse! I'll stick to taking a pulse I think.... Anyway, I got full marks on another test today, again, the only one in the class (Boast, swagger, gloat... ;) ) And the final exam is tomorrow. (Finger's crossed!) I should be okay.... Kiama

Umbrae	04 Apr 2002
No disrespect back. I understand about the anaphylactic shock part. I understand about swelling up like a rubber novelty. Been there. I also understand that the spark plug works. Cannot tell you why. I can tell you about not breathing. I can also understand Raynaud’s phenomenon. All I know is that a high voltage DC current stops/reverses anaphylactic shock immediately…it works. (It is a back-woods remedy, west coast, USA). I am not asking you to perform this as a first aid replacement. It just works. We both have a place here to do what we do best.

Kiama	04 Apr 2002
Well, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt... I just hope I'll never be in a position to try it out! I'm still very unsure about it though... Surely topping breathing is far less dangerous than the heart stopping...? But that's a whole new discussion! But, with all these damn legalities nowadays, I'd get sued for using the Spark Plug treatment anyway! (Its a funny old world, isn't it?!) Kiama

Umbrae	04 Apr 2002
Kiama, you make me laugh. It is good. Over here you know, if you go to a drive-up and buy coffee, it says on the cup “Coffee is hot”. A few years back an old bat bought coffee at a McDonalds (Christ, ya can’t even get good haggis there [is there such a thing?]), took the top off, put the cup twixt her legs, and drove off. The coffee spilled in her crotch (roflpp). She sued, she won! Back in ’93, there was a bad accident ‘right in front of us’. I had to hunt down an ice chest, and bag and ice this dude’s arm. They reattached it, and he kept it (the arm). He did not sue. The guy who’s ice chest I ‘stole’ was pissed, until I place a bagged arm into it (then he left before he puked). My point? You do what you do in this life, treat others well…but do not serve hot coffee… Actually, the real meaning of the 4 of Cups is, “I am waiting for it to cool down, I do not want to scald my crotch, for I have nobody to sue…”

Kiama	04 Apr 2002
ROFLMAO!!!! Thanks, Umbrae! BTW: (Here's me revising....) The amputated limb should not touch the ice directly. Otherwise it runs the risk of getting frost bite and ice burns... Nasty! I'm SO gonna pass this exam tomorrow! Kiama

Umbrae	04 Apr 2002
I bagged the arm! Plastic bags are wonderful! Now go study and stop chatting... And watch where you place the coffee (while you melt some chocolate in it).

Kiama	04 Apr 2002
Why study when I have such a ken intelligence? :P ;) Kiama

Pedeka	04 Apr 2002
You have to be careful with EVERYTHING. When I was a substitute teacher I had a rude awakening . I had to carry a 2 million dollar personal liability insurance policy on myself before I was allowed to walk into a room with a child. The school board and individual schools also had policies that covered me. Along with the policy I got a list of things that were covered. It included a child stabbing himself. Now how would that ever be a subs fault? A bad lecture on King Leer? I am CPR certified, but would never use that training unless it was on a family member. This is because you can get sued for withdrawing life support if you are performing CPR and for some reason can't continue until help arrives. Its the lawsuit happy legal system that makes people too afraid to even care about others as we should. Pedeka the big old cynic

Kiama	05 Apr 2002
Well, I passed with flying colours, after getting only two questions wrong out of a total of 50 in the Written tests, and after getting 1 mark off full marks for the Practical. Am I good? OH YES! Kiama

jade	05 Apr 2002
ABSOLUTELY!!!

Silence Dogood	06 Apr 2002
McHaggis? OOOOOOOOOOOOOO YUCK!!!!!!!!!!

The What What What??????!!!!!!!!! thread was originally posted on 03 Apr 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.