Competition & differences among Friends

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 29 May 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

debins	29 May 2002
I'm having trouble finding the right balance and behaving the "right" way with a friend. She tends to say things in a rather competitive way about intellectual topics that I attach great important to. On the one hand, I don't want to be difficult and always make a debate of things. But on the other hand, we are both "academics" and she tends to say things I feel I must respond to in order to maintain a personal sense of integrity. If I simply do not respond to the things she says, the things that I feel need answering to, then I feel I am beilng cheap, sort of dishonest. But when I answer her and detail my differences of opinion, although as nicely as I can, I feel guilty. I end up following up our email discussions by sending thoughts of love to her and asking the universe for forgiveness and wisdom for myself. Does anyone have any vibes about what is happening between me and my friend or about what I might need to consider about myself and my personal growth? Namaste, Deborah.

zorya	29 May 2002
you might consider asking the cards ;)

debins	29 May 2002
I've tried the cards but I'm too close to the issue. I keep getting reflections of my own feelings and assumptions about my friend's so much so that I'm not sure I'm getting an objective reading. Namaste, Debins.

Sam	29 May 2002
maybe you two need a "trial seperation", like married ppl do when they can't work things out. they seperate for a little bit and then talk about their problems. hope this helps!

zorya	30 May 2002
if you post your reading, maybe we could help you with it! in the meantime, you might try waiting 24 hours before e-mailing her back, this should give you enough time to weigh everything you want to say, carefully.

Diana	30 May 2002
Deborah: I get the feeling you're not seeing yourself on an equal footing with her. Lack of confidence? Lack of self-esteem? Due to some karmic remnant still needed to be sorted out? The latter sounds very likely to me. Would you like to do a reading on this and post it on the Your Readings forum for help and other people's interpretations? What does Namaste mean? It sounds very nice.

Geenius at Wrok	30 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by debins On the one hand, I don't want to be difficult and always make a debate of things. But on the other hand, we are both "academics" and she tends to say things I feel I must respond to in order to maintain a personal sense of integrity. . . . But when I answer her and detail my differences of opinion, although as nicely as I can, I feel guilty. You are wrong to feel guilty. People disagree on things all the time. Friends disagree on things all the time. Disagreement is not attack or betrayal or anything else other than disagreement. I will bet you an autographed baseball that if you asked her directly, your friend would say she doesn't understand why you feel the need to apologize all the time. Conflict is a normal, everyday thing and does not doom a relationship—on the contrary, a relationship can't survive if all the conflict in it is bottled up rather than worked out. It sounds like, either subconsciously or consciously, you don't believe that you're entitled to have your own opinions, that your individuality is somehow an imposition on other people. You are entitled to express your opinions, whenever and on whatever subject you choose, and no reasonable person will fault you for doing so. Stop walking on eggshells and feel the yummy empowerment flow through you. Edited to add: When you say your friend expresses things in a "competitive" way, is she actually trying to quash your opinions, or is she simply being blunt and assertive about her own? Many girls and women conflate directness with competition and conflict, which is fallacious. You should read Rachel Simmons' "Odd Girl Out" and try to judge whether your relationship with this person really is built around a power imbalance or whether you're simply reacting with alarm to an outspoken communication style.

debins	30 May 2002
Many thanks for so many replies. Firstly, Namaste, east Indian in origin, means "I honour the divine in you." It is shown with the hands in a prayful position. I didn't record my cards for my own reading but I'll venture to do another reading and share that one. The recommended book sounds interesting. I'll explore that title. I'm not sure whether I'm confusing bluntness with competition or not. But I am happy to have been given much food for thought. It's excellent to be able to come to this forum. Namaste. Debins. I have to go at the moment; I'm having a wee break at work and don't won't other to peek.

debins	30 May 2002
Diane, That karmic remnant sounds more than just a little interesting. Hmm. Yes, very likely. I shall ponder this. Thank you, wise friend. Namaste. Debins.

debins	30 May 2002
Now that I have another milnute, actually, yess, I do "feel" my friend is trying to trash my opinions. Not nice to say and I do want to doubt it but I find her suspect, sometimes. But on the other hand, I recognize that I am not fond of competition either, nor conflict. although my husband says I can and do very gracefully hold my own. He tends to laugh when he says this for I am described as being a very feminine female, and initially people do expect a high level of intelligence from a "fluffy" woman. The part my husband finds humourous is what he describes as a contradiction. But the book, Odd Girl Out, sound like a good recommendation. Power imbalance--yes, I'll look into this. Many thanks. Namaste, Debins.

lunalafey	30 May 2002
Try only discussing the things you do agree on, When a topic comes about and your opinions are different, state that your think differently but don't disscuss WHY. Don't explain yourself, it seems to be a waste of time and it is eating at your spirit. I have friends that I have to have 'rules' with just because of a clash in personallity. They are not bad people so where's the reason to not be thier friend. It seems to smooth things out.

Jenny-Li	30 May 2002
Hi! After sticking my chin out in the Cannabis debate, I guess my viewpoint is well known around here. Just have to argue it anyway...! :D Why do you have to agree? What's so wrong with having different opinions? I have the deepest love and respect for LOADS of people who think stuff that I just don't "buy", it doesn't change anything between us, unless we LET it become a big thing in the relationship. Does this make sense? You mentioned you both being "academics" - I take that as the issues you argue about being non-personal stuff, like politics, ethics, stuff like that? If that's the kind of discussions you and your friend have - why not just welcome the debate as a really good way of extending your perspective, take a good look at "the other side". You know these questions are very complex, people are constantly debating them, nobody has one clear-cut answer, everybody has their own point of view. Could this work for you? Maybe this is how your friend sees it, maybe she (or he?) likes to trigger the discussion, simply because it allows her/him to think wider about an issue. I enjoyed the Cannabis-debate here at Aeclectic for just that reason, EVEN if it didn't make me change my opinion. Sometimes that's not the point... Don't know if this makes any sense to you, but it does to me. It doesn't have to be a problem. And honestly - if you're really friends, should you really have to just stick with things you agree on...? My guess is your friendship will hold for more than you think, if you don't see a problem with having a lively discussion every once in a while! If I were you I'd just ask her why she brings up these issues. (Or him) Light and love, Jenny :)

debins	02 Jun 2002
YES, JENNY-LI, I agree with you. And my friend would say she does too. The problem is that my friend seems to want to convert me to her point of view. When she fails to convert me she becomes offensive, saying that if I had carefully examined the topic I would agree, that I am among the anti-intellectual for not seeing things as she does. If you were to ask my friend if she agreed with what you said about a healthy debate among friends, she would say by all means, that that is what she is after. HOWEVER, her practice is quite different. I am with you: ; we don't HAVE to agree. I HAVE looked at the other side. Yes, they were academic topics. I've studied at the Ph.d level and got A's. She got her Ph.d some time ago. I am just against her effort to bully me in a most indirect and cunning way. I find it upsetting. YES, LUNAFEY, I have tried sticking to topics that help keep us friends, but my friend won't let it be that way for long. Yes, I think rules such as you have described will be necessary. Of course, she is not a bad person. Still, I don't like getting emails with knives hidden in them. At this point I've emailed her back and said, "Enough. Enjoy the spring. Take care. Deb." That was two days ago. No more word from her as of Sunday morning. And now I feel I am being tedious. I really thank everyone once again. Namaste, Debins.

wavebreaker	02 Jun 2002
Hi Debins, Just an idea: I feel that your friend is very insecure about her opinions, which is why she wants to convert you to her ideas, so she isn't the only one with these opinions and she has someone to "back her up". She might even feel threatened by the fact that you have your own opinion and stand up for it; she may call you anti-intellectual but in reality she might be scared of your intellectuality, which she considers to be superior to her own. If this is the case, it's not your problem, it's her problem, she needs to work on her insecurity. I've seen this very often: people who feel insecure towards someone will try and slag this person off so they feel better themselves. Just my two cents... I hope you can work this out!!

Jenny-Li	02 Jun 2002
Quote: Originally posted by debins YES, JENNY-LI, I agree with you. And my friend would say she does too. /.../ If you were to ask my friend if she agreed with what you said about a healthy debate among friends, she would say by all means, that that is what she is after. HOWEVER, her practice is quite different. I am with you: ; we don't HAVE to agree. I HAVE looked at the other side. Yes, they were academic topics. I've studied at the Ph.d level and got A's. She got her Ph.d some time ago. I am just against her effort to bully me in a most indirect and cunning way. I find it upsetting. /.../ And now I feel I am being tedious. I really thank everyone once again. Namaste, Debins. Hm... That is a tricky one, I agree. I also have to agree with Tarotlady_nl in that she seems insecure about her view-point, like she needs to convert you to be sure it's OK for her to have her opinion. (I might be overstating a bit here, just to make a clear point of what I mean, I'm also pretty sure you both know what you're talking about - it might not be facts that are the problem here, but the point where facts demand that you take a stand.) I don't envy you your situation, but I wish you all the luck and strength in the world to get through it in one piece, and I'm pretty sure you will! You're NOT tedious! This is what we're here for, to be around for each other, though our varous Tarot Journeys - AND through all the other stuff, our lives! Light and love, Jenny :)

debins	02 Jun 2002
...and offering insight as well as your best wishes. Very much valued. Namaste, Debins.

The Competition & differences among Friends thread was originally posted on 29 May 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.