Legalising Cannabis

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 22 May 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	22 May 2002
In the UK there is alot of talk about legalising Cannabis. The reactions are mixed, and some very extreme. There is even a café opened near where I live, where people can go roll a joint and smoke it. What do you guys think? Would legalising Cannabis be a good measure, or would it be disastrous? Kiama

Kaz	22 May 2002
it's legalised here, up to a certain amount you can have for consuming yourself, otherwise you will be qualified as dealer. it doesn't add to more trouble, the only thing that might be adding to trouble is drug-tourism. but in itself, no more trouble than before. other dutchies maybe know more about it, as i don't live in a city. kaz

Malachite	22 May 2002
Yup. Legal and licensed. It isn;t harmless, but it is no more so harmful that alcohol or nicotine, and it certainly creates less of a social problem than alcohol. Stoners don't start fights, go on rampages, or smash windows... Many people think that it would lead on to harder drugs, but I think that that mostly occurs when people are buying weed from someone who also deals harder drugs. If they were bought from a shop, that pull wouldn't be there. And allowing commercial interest would inevitable reduce prices and push dealers out of the market.

Malachite	22 May 2002
About Drug tourism...I don't know what other countries people travel to Amsterdam from, but I know its very popular here... In that case, the tourism to the Netherlands would be reduced, because people woud'nt need to go!...

wavebreaker	22 May 2002
It's been legal over here for ages. That is: possession of a limited amount for personal use is allowed. If you carry more, you're considered a drug dealer, and that is not legal. I don't have a problem with it. If you would make it illegal, that wouldn't stop people from using it and the whole business would go "underground". At least now it's out in the open, which makes it better to control. And I don't think our drug problems are bigger than those of neighbouring countries, where cannabis is still illegal. Except maybe for the fact that we get a lot of "drug tourists", people from neighbouring countries visiting the country just to get drugs. When I was a teenager, I went to cafés where everybody smoked marihuana and other stuff. At student parties, there would often be "space cake", cake with marihuana in it. I also went to a lot of pop concerts and festivals, where you could easily get all sorts of soft drugs, so it was easily accessible to me and my friends. However, we never tried it, we just weren't interested, because it was nothing special. To us, it was just like alcohol: you either liked it or not and you have to be really careful with it. BTW: I saw a documentary on tv a while ago about café owners from the UK coming over to the Netherlands for a course in how to run a café that sells cannabis... ;)

wavebreaker	22 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Malachite About Drug tourism...I don't know what other countries people travel to Amsterdam from, but I know its very popular here... In that case, the tourism to the Netherlands would be reduced, because people woud'nt need to go!... I know we get a lot of "drug tourists" from France, don't know about other countries.

joya250	22 May 2002
YES please. of course, that will never happen in the US -- cause all the tobacco companies, the government, and the big corporations will lose money -- and of course, it's about money -- because cigarettes are horrible for you -- and hey, those are legal. oh, and alcohol. that's pretty bad too.

Jenny-Li	22 May 2002
NO!! Ban cigarettes and booze instead - if they are the reason Cannabis "should" be legalized...! I don't believe in drugs, I don't believe in rating dangerousness and I don't - I'm sorry but I really don't - belive in people being able to take responsibility for themselves. Last year, I spent a lot of time in London, and once one of the newspapers published pictures of a girl shortly before she died of an overdose. That image is burned into the back of my head, and will stay there for as long as I live. It was her parents who had decided the picture had to be published, to show people what the heck they're dealing with. Horrible. How anyone can even so much as dream of making it easier for people to access stuff that might, in the long run, end you up like that - it's completely beyond my understanding. Stay clean, folks - don't want to loose any of you to that crap!Jenny :)

joya250	22 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jenny-Li NO!! Ban cigarettes and booze instead - if they are the reason Cannabis "should" be legalized...! I don't believe in drugs, I don't believe in rating dangerousness and I don't - I'm sorry but I really don't - belive in people being able to take responsibility for themselves. Last year, I spent a lot of time in London, and once one of the newspapers published pictures of a girl shortly before she died of an overdose. That image is burned into the back of my head, and will stay there for as long as I live. It was her parents who had decided the picture had to be published, to show people what the heck they're dealing with. Horrible. How anyone can even so much as dream of making it easier for people to access stuff that might, in the long run, end you up like that - it's completely beyond my understanding. Stay clean, folks - don't want to loose any of you to that crap!Jenny :) hey JennyLi -- I wasn't using booze and cigarettes as reasons to smoke pot! :) haha. I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of categorizing "okay" drugs --- like caffiene! now, THAT is a wicked, wicked drug!!!! actually, I am totally pro-marijuana. and strongly disagree that it is "crap" --- what IS "crap" is the unnatural, manufactured drugs -- such as cocaine, herion -- and even Xtascy. (although it is fun -- it does a number on your body. it's not worth it!) Marijuana, on the other hand, is NATURAL. our ancestors smoked it. it has been linked throughout history with spiritual rituals and the like.... which I'm not going to get into right now -- but you can find out a lot by doing a simple search. but, hey, each to her own. :) peace.

wavebreaker	22 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jenny-Li I'm sorry but I really don't - belive in people being able to take responsibility for themselves. No, not if you don't give them the chance to take responsibility, then they will never learn. Of course, there will always be irresponsible people, but I doubt whether you can ever prevent them from doing stupid things. The more secretive you are about something, whether it's drugs or alcohol or sex, the more appealing it will be to teenagers and the more exciting it will be for them to get it. If it's out in the open, there's nothing special about it, so it's not interesting. Like I said, when I was a teenager, soft drugs were readily available everywhere (and they still are), but I don't know of anyone among my friends or schoolmates who got addicted or, worse, died of an overdose. Most people would just try it once, out of curiosity. Or they would only smoke one or two joints at a party. One exception: there was this one guy who got addicted on marihuana, he had lots of problems at home, and if he hadn't been able to get marihuana, he would have taken something else, alcohol or whatever else was available. At least now he was able to get good quality stuff from cafés instead of illegal stuff that might have been tampered with and might have killed him... Also, remember we're talking about cannabis here, NOT hard drugs like heroine.

lunalafey	22 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jenny-Li one of the newspapers published pictures of a girl shortly before she died of an overdose. How anyone can even so much as dream of making it easier for people to access stuff that might, in the long run, end you up like that - it's completely beyond my understanding. You cannot overdose on cannibis, therefore would not 'end up like that'(she was prob. on heroin) Cannibis is what is in question. jenny, I too am against drugs; prozac, sugar, caffeen, meth, aka speed. cocain, heroin. And I agree that there are alot of people that cannot take responsibility for themselves. There alot of drugs made leagle by the government that, in the long run, kill you. Fenphen(sp.) the diet medicine. So who is to say what is and what isn't. The way I see things, and do things, as much as possible; Mother Nature provides, I stay away from asprin, though if I felt that I really could not handle the headache, I know where there is a willow tree. AS far as in the states, in California there is a medical marijuana law, 215. You can get a perscription. There is still alot of battle over all of it, like how much is too much, how many plants can you grow, and WHO can grow, paitent or care provider. In one county, you can have 25 plants in your front yard, percription, licence, or not, and they won't touch you. If you are going high tech, indoor, lights etc, the income potential is outragious.(the feds will slam you hard for this) That's when GREED comes into play. Making it leagle to grow, posses and smoke would eliminate alot of this greed. And I really believe that the leagilization issue with WEED is really GREED....of the people and the government.

Liliana	22 May 2002
Ive always thought it should be legalized too, I neer did it but have seen people who are and they were definately less threatning than a drunk.. Legalizing would also keep people for putting bad crap in it, Ive seen someone who doesnt smoke it often smoke some bad stuff, puked off the balcony and wished he were dead. Ive wanted to try ecstasy, but Im sure itd kill me. Literally, I suffer from depression severely. It works by making the feel good chemicals over produce, ut then afterwards they underproduce. Since mine are underprodcing already, the additional cut would likely kill me. I an make a mean fake canibus brownie tho, you'd swear theres some in it een tho theres not ;) (dont ask, a stupid mistake while not paying attention lol)

jade	22 May 2002
i don't agree with any drug use..........alcohol and cigs included in that group by the way. i love coffee, but drink decaf :D anyway, i feel that we don't need more stuff in our society to assist us in escaping reality. when i did drugs..........i was numbing myself so that i didn't have to look at what my life was really like and thru that numbing of myself i slowed down my healing process and slowed down getting on with my life! i would sit and either just veg......or be frantic looking for some to buy. what a pathetic existance it was. didn't want to do much of anything :( do i want to legalize it so that my kids can legally go thru what i did........NO WAY!!!......i want them to know that not dealing with reality is wrong. just like i teach them that alcohol is wrong. i know my opinon is not the one that everyone wants to hear....but it's mine :D in light, jade

Kiama	22 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by jade i know my opinon is not the one that everyone wants to hear....but it's mine :D in light, jade Everyone's opinions are wonderful, and I greatly value this discussion. It helps so much for people to dicuss these issues together, despite their differing opinions. Is there a link between whether ornot you have/do use cannabis/drugs extensively, and whether or no you want it banned? What do you guys think? How many of u have used it extensively, and how many of us who have used it extensively want it banned? I haven't used it extensively: I smoked one joint of an evening when I was 16. Didn't really do anything great... I was expecting something a bit better, so I was rather disappointed. Seems to me to be an expensive habit which I just don't find any joy in... Plus, I have more money to spend on TAROT DECKS!!!!!! }) But I'm not against those who do enjoy it. Its just that I don't. Kiama

Liliana	22 May 2002
Even tho I replied already, everytime I read this posts title I see Legalizing Canabalism, and I think, no Id prefer they didnt lol

Phoenix	22 May 2002
Well, I have to disagree with Jenny-Li. I am glad you have your opinion, but how do you feel about medicinal Marijuana?? Some people, like those with terminal cancer can use this to relieve pain caused by the cancer, that other drugs, like morphine, and demerol cannot relieve. Do you believe that they should just suffer unbearable pain until they die?? One of mr great aunts in the Netherlands has Multiple Sclerosis, and my uncle gives her marijuana in her butter to relieve her pain. I do not want to seem like I am critisizing those who disagree with legalize marijuana, I am merely posing a question.

lilmystic	22 May 2002
I agree with Phoenix...the thing is, as drugs go...pot is MUCH less destructive than a lot of other substances and actually can have a positive application. : ) cheers!

Butterfly	22 May 2002
I've never touched cannabis, or cigarettes. No desire to, but many people close to me have. I think that an interesting point is- despite being one of the hardest drugs to give up (it's got such a psychological hold) there are no rehabilittation programs for it. In Australia we have programs for many other drugs- cigarettes, heroin etc. People with cannabis are left on their own. maybe if it was legalised people would actually address this fact.

jakyle	23 May 2002
We've heard of drunk driving,but does anyone actually know of someone causing an accident,or getting pulled over for being stoned? (just pot.No other drugs in their system.)I personally have tried it,and didn't like the effects. Ate too much,made me tired,(and I'm always tired)and got a nasty chest cold the next day....But, I "Choose" not to smoke it. Back to the question....I haven't ever heard of anyone causing an accident while stoned just on pot... Medically,yes!! Anything to help someone's health/mental balance...They prescribe morphine patches for some cancer patients(for the pain)....

Jenny-Li	23 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by lunalafey You cannot overdose on cannibis, therefore would not 'end up like that'(she was prob. on heroin) Cannibis is what is in question. jenny, I too am against drugs; prozac, sugar, caffeen, meth, aka speed. cocain, heroin. Wait-a-minute... Is SUGAR a worse drug than Cannabis??? And caffein - that's coffee, right? Gimme a break... I think we might be talking about a weeeeee bit different things here! :) (Prozac is antidepressive medication - it's also a different thing, in my world - be it a very small one... Medicine serves a purpose, what's the purpose of a joint??) Do you, any of you, honestly believe the junkies start out with hard drugs? Because they don't. They start out with marijuana, cannabis and the lighter stuff. Why should our government go out and say sure go ahead, take this drug - it'll do funny stuff with your brain, you might not be able to take responsibility for anything anymore, but hey - it's your life. Damn right it is. But why do we need to confuse people by opening up the door to addiction? Because that's what it is, a doorway. Sure some people will be able to have a joint nearby that door, and then step out again and think no more of it, but others won't be able to. I know perfectly well noone OD's on cannabis - but that's not the point. The point here is what message legalizing it would send out. And legalizing a drug (any drug) would definitely be sending out a message I can't stand behind. You guys seem to see a junkie and a guy with a joint as two separate and unrelated things - I don't, and never will. I'm not accusing anyone here, I don't think less of any of you who want this drug available at the local 7-11 (or whatever), but I must speak up, because thinking a drug, whichever one, to be harmless is rather naďve... But maybe that's just me. Light and love to all of you! Jenny :)

Butterfly	23 May 2002
Strangely enough, there was actually a study that found that a person with cannabis in their system was actually a better driver- in the sense that they were more aware of what what happening on the road. I would expect that it slows down response rate though. On a completely different point I remember a study I learnt about in 1st year psych, where they observed the web spiders built, while the spider was under the influence of different drugs. The photos were hilarious. The caffeine web was a chaotic, messy, frantic mess. Even funnier, the cannabis web wasn't even finished!

Jenny-Li	23 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Phoenix Well, I have to disagree with Jenny-Li. I am glad you have your opinion, but how do you feel about medicinal Marijuana?? Some people, like those with terminal cancer can use this to relieve pain caused by the cancer, that other drugs, like morphine, and demerol cannot relieve. Do you believe that they should just suffer unbearable pain until they die?? One of mr great aunts in the Netherlands has Multiple Sclerosis, and my uncle gives her marijuana in her butter to relieve her pain. I do not want to seem like I am critisizing those who disagree with legalize marijuana, I am merely posing a question. I had a feeling while writing my "protest-post" yesterday, that people would disagree, so that completely OK with me. Besides, I'm the Queen of Swords, I love debating!! :D Medicial Marijuana - actually I didn't know there was such a thing, but as I wrote earlier this morning, I think there's a different between prescripted medical use of drugs and free do-as-you-please-use of drugs. I feel strongly against experimenting with the body, while not knowing exactly what you're doing. Your question: "Do you believe that they should just suffer unbearable pain until they die??" - I must say it hurts a bit, is that what you think of me?? Oh boy, do I feel misunderstood... Let's turn the question around: In Netherlands drugs like that are free, in most countries they aren't. Do you really think people "suffer unbearable pain until they die" in ALL other countries?? Relieving pain for sick people isn't dependant on self-experimenting with drugs. ~~~~ I still drink alcohol from time to time, not much, but it happens. But it is becoming more and more clear to me just how damaging it is to my body, and every time I feel more and more shame over how I've treated it (my body). I feel numb, not really present - I can almost feel the cells of my body glaring at me asking: "What have we done to deserve YOU??" :D So my real question is: What the heck do we need drugs for in the first place? Isn't life itself rich enough, do we really have to create artificial (yes, yes, yes, cannabis is a plant, natural and stuff - the effect is still, in my view, artificial - unnatural and harmful for our bodily system.) "joy-rides" at the cost of our ability to experience life as it really is?? /Jenny :)

wavebreaker	23 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jenny-Li Why should our government go out and say sure go ahead, take this drug - it'll do funny stuff with your brain, you might not be able to take responsibility for anything anymore, but hey - it's your life. That's not the message our government is sending out. The reason for legalising soft drugs, is purely practical. Personally, I'm definitely against the use of soft drugs just for pleasure, but you have to be realistic. In an ideal world, banishing drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. would banish its use. However, this is not an ideal world. If you banish drugs, people will still find a way to get it, through illegal channels, with all the risks involved (bad, potentially lethal drugs, people will be ripped off by untrustworthy dealers, etc.). That's why I prefer to have it legalised, so it can be controlled. As soon as you make it illegal, you cannot control it anymore and it will get out of hand. And again, our government is not sending out the message that it's ok to use drugs, we do get warned a lot about the risks of using drugs at school and in the media, the same way we are warned about the risks of alcohol and cigarettes. This is a subject I'm feeling very strongly about, because I often get the feeling that people from abroad think that in our country "everything is possible", that we don't have any rules or laws or morals. So I like to explain what it is really like, that we do have laws and, more importantly, that they seem to work really well. Because, even though cannabis is legalised in our country, I don't think we have more drug-related problems than other countries. And people are very relaxed about it, it's not as if people are constantly running to the cannabis shop around the corner "just because it's legal".

VGimlet	23 May 2002
Legalize - yes. For myself, I don't like pot, it's just not me. But it's probably less harmful than some legal drugs, including drugs available by perscription. And if it's legal, it can be regulated, taxed, and all that entails. I think anyone who uses and abuses any kind of substance, including alcohol, cigs, diet pills, can be at risk for using harder drugs. Everyone points the finger at pot for being a gateway drug, but I bet there are very few junkies who never got drunk, and never smoked cigarettes either. I do put pot in the same category as alchohol, although alcohol use has done more damage throughout time than any other drug in existance. Just like alcohol, a little now and then - no big deal. Using it all the time - not good. I'd also rather law enforcement spent its time chasing real bad guys, instead of some stoner snoring in front of his TV (or riding his snowboard, or....LOL) Just my quarter of a cent.

Faerie Lin	23 May 2002
I also think weed is in the same category as alcohol. (Alcohol is actually a little worse.) Did any of you all see that one story on 20/20 (or one of those nightly news shows) about that woman who was giving her young son weed to calm him down? I think he had ADD with ALOT of other things, he acted out really bad. Someone had took her to court for it, but the woman won and was able to keep on giving her son the prescription weed. Yep a doctor prescribed weed for the little boy. If i can remember right, he was maybe a preteen or a little younger. Lin

Kiama	23 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by VGimlet Everyone points the finger at pot for being a gateway drug, but I bet there are very few junkies who never got drunk, and never smoked cigarettes either. I do put pot in the same category as alchohol, although alcohol use has done more damage throughout time than any other drug in existance. Just like alcohol, a little now and then - no big deal. Using it all the time - not good. The reason people say that cannabis is the gateway to harder drugs is cuz most of the time, the people who deal in cannabis also deal in the harder stuff too, and if you can buy the harder stuff from the cannabis seller, who's there to stop you? Its so easy that way... But if it is legalised, and we could buy it say, from a special shop, or get it precribed, there is so much less risk of getting bad cannabis, or getting offered the harder stuff. This is a gret discussion... It really is highlighting the main concerns and worries from both sides of the debate, and I've learned so much about the laws on drugs in other countries! Now, who can I find to impress with my new-found knowedge of drugs laws in the Netherlands...? Kiama

kayne	23 May 2002
I am undecided about whether it should be legal or not. What I do know is that whether it is legal or not education about Marijuana is very important. The fact is many people use pot on a regular basis and I don't think many of them are entirely aware of the effects of their pot use on their short and long term health... just like people need to be educated about all types of drugs (legal and illegal). How can people make an informed choice unless they have all the facts? I think that teaching "Just say no" just isn't enough because this promotes the idea, "Why should I say no?" and they try it anyway without fully knowing what is going to happen to them. btw. I bet most Heroin uses drank coffee before trying heroin... did coffee lead to Heroin use? Also: The poison of a red-back spider is natural but I wouldn't want to smear that on my toast...

Diana	23 May 2002
Switzerland is in the process of legalising cannabis. The police have more important work to do than chase after people who are smoking joints. We also have a scheme to give heroin to junkies who need it. There are already many shops where you can buy cannabis "legally", well at least the police turn a blind eye. I think that making marijuana a criminal thing is laughable and it's all just a big farce. There are so many really, really dangerous things in this world that are absolutely and 100% legal, but they're okay 'cos they're making money for a few arrogant multi-millionaires. When they stop putting all that salt in processed food that causes serious illnesses; stop putting so much refined sugar into all the cereals that the little kids eat which is the way to obesity and blood diseases; when they start building cars that do not pollute the air so much that just walking in a city causes asthma and lung diseases; when they stop poisoning the ocean; when they stop producing landmines that kill and maim hundreds of thousands of people a year; oh god, do I really have to go on? What the hell is all this talk about a harmless weed? I don't smoke the stuff anymore - was there for 20 years and then one day I decided that was it. I might take it up again when I'm eighty years old, just for the hell of it!

Jenny-Li	23 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana What the hell is all this talk about a harmless weed? Well, that's the question: is it really "harmless"? I don't think so - and especially not if we start counting drugs from coffee and sugar and up... And here's another question: Is the reason we should legalize it still the fact that there is already so much bad stuff out there? So we should allow another bad thing, just because we haven't been able to get rid of all the stuff that is even worse? Why? To me it just doesn't add upp... I respect all of your opinions, but so far none of you have made me reconsider. I think a drug is a drug, it harms the body (AND soul, I'm sure!) and legalizing it IS to make a statement saying it's OK to do drugs. I don't buy it. /Jenny :)

lunalafey	23 May 2002
drug= a substance that changes the body chemistry.. There is a book called "Chocolate to Morphine" It is interesting reading. The first 2 sentences.. "Drugs are here to stay. History teaches that it is vain to hope that drugs will ever disappear and that any effort to eliminate tham from society is doomed to fail" the book includes, sugsr and coffee, as well as nutmeg, ginseng. Sugar and coffee are drugs. Household items, and so is paint, and glue...that KILLS. And yet is readily available. Take away the weed and the addictive personality will find something else.(what would life be like if we got rid of the drugs in our garage?) Marijuana is NOT the problem. It is what is within a person. We all have our addictions, some worse that others. you wrote: Prozac is antidepressive medication - it's also a different thing. (Are you aware that people have become extreamly violent while taking this 'medication' to the point of killing.) Medicine serves a purpose, what's the purpose of a joint?? (you have already heard about that) _____________________________________________ If you take the il off of legal, then you put the dealers out of business. There is alot of money to be made by growing and selling mass amounts of pot. And all because it's against the law. GREED, as I mentioned before, can sometimes lead to murder. picture this...noname is lost looking for his brothers house in the middle of nowhere. He ends up at a million dollar a year indoor grow. The guard, who does not smoke pot,(that's why he got hired)has been up all night, for 6 nights, shoots at noname. BOOM. dead guy...innocent dead guy. you wrote: You guys seem to see a junkie and a guy with a joint as two separate and unrelated things - I don't, and never will. * I would REALLY like to know what your definition of a junkie is. Because you feel so stongly about drug use in your world, should that way be imposed on those who think differently ?(and you wrote; in my world - be it a very small one...) It does not affect you in your living room when MaryJane takes a toke in hers. Let's think simply, we humans desire freedom do we not ? If pot works for some people and they are not harming anyone, what's the problem? It does not matter how many laws you make, there will be people who break them. Jails are full of harmless stoners, using up tax money, and the wife beater gets out on an early paroll because there is no room. Guess what..he doesn't smoke weed, he drinks booze. The world will never be free of these horrible things, no matter what we do(aside from culling the population and selective breeding). I would wager money that some of the music you enjoy was created under the infuence of marijuana. What works for one may not work for another, why make a line ? It should be up to the individual, freedom of choice(btw, the government is already confusing us)bad stuff will always happen...but WEED is not a bad thing. I can't understand why you think IT is. Does that make the person who smokes it BAD ?...oh, a junkie..

jema	23 May 2002
perhaps it is because both jenny and me are swedes - but i do agree with her and her arguments. in sweden we get a very thourough education about the dangers with drugs. and believe me that educations sticks with us for the rest of our lives. some would say we are brainwashed - well, if we are at least it works. you will find very few swedes who are for legalizing any drugs. just including a link here. http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html ps, not really looking to argue with anyone here - just thought i would state my opinion. *quietly sneaking out of the room*

joya250	23 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jenny-Li Wait-a-minute... Is SUGAR a worse drug than Cannabis??? And caffein - that's coffee, right? Jenny :) in my world, Jenny. yes. yes, it is. :) please don't be fooled -- just cause it's legal, doesn't mean it's good for you.

Liliana	23 May 2002
Heck even cow turds are drugs. Yes Im serious, apparatly its become popular to make this device out of a bowl with a hole drilled through it and one or more straws stuck into the hole/s. You then cover your chosen turd with the bowl, and snort the methane from the straws. Even poor addicts will find SOMETHING Weed needs to be legalized to control what goes in it, some dealers lae it with harder drugs to get people addicted to heaier, and more expesive, stuff.

joya250	23 May 2002
LOL cow turds? damn! where can I get me some? hahahaha where abouts in PA is this? it's gotta be way out there! :)

Jenny-Li	23 May 2002
"jenny-li, PLEASE open your eyes to a bigger world" - Oh boy, is this where we get to be really nasty, and get on the personal level? Oh goody-goody-goody! I'm just kidding, Luna - I'm not going there, promise! :D As far as I'm concerned, I have no real reason to keep this argument in the air, I've made my point, you (and the rest of the forum!) have made yours, I'm not changing my mind, and you guys aren't likely to change yours. Status quo, and I'm really fine with that - I hope you are too. However, there are a few things in your post that I don't understand - it might be my bad English, I don't know. It would be nice if you could take the time to explain what you mean, though! Quote: Originally posted by lunalafey GREED, as I mentioned before, can sometimes lead to murder. picture this...noname is lost looking for his brothers house in the middle of nowhere. He ends up at a million dollar a year indoor grow. The guard, who does not smoke pot,(that's why he got hired)has been up all night, for 6 nights, shoots at noname. BOOM. dead guy...innocent dead guy. What does the doorman's lack of pot-smoking-habits have to do with his shooting noname? And why would he NOT have shot him if he had smoked some pot? :confused: I don't geddit... Quote: Originally posted by lunalafey you wrote: You guys seem to see a junkie and a guy with a joint as two separate and unrelated things - I don't, and never will. * I would REALLY like to know what your definition of a junkie is. Because you feel so stongly about drug use in your world, should that way be imposed on those who think differently ? (and you wrote; in my world - be it a very small one...) It does not affect you in your living room when MaryJane takes a toke in hers. I admit I was being unclear there; my emphasis was on "unrelated" - I do think they are very much related, even though I agree, they have many (obvious) differences between them. Then a teeny-weeny little point on my own behalf: I have never tried to push my thoughts and opinions onto anybody else, you are quite free to keep your point of view. As long as I get to keep and express mine. And no - if MaryJane has a joint in her own livingroom, that's none of my business. What is my business is keeping it away from my kids (whenever I shall have them). And if they have to break every rule their poor mother (gosh, it feels odd to think of myself in that term, pleasant but ODD!! :D) has ever given them PLUS a couple of laws on top of that - then I think they are less likely to go ahead with it than if they can just stroll by the local convenience store and get it from there. (Or however legal cannabis would work...!) Quote: Originally posted by lunalafey Let's think simply, we humans desire freedom do we not ? If pot works for some people and they are not harming anyone, what's the problem? For me none. But I have a hard time disconnecting me from the rest of existence, and just accepting the fact that people still seek freedom in a joint. Quote: Originally posted by lunalafey It should be up to the individual, freedom of choice(btw, the government is already confusing us)bad stuff will always happen...but WEED is not a bad thing. I can't understand why you think IT is. Does that make the person who smokes it BAD ?...oh, a junkie.. Weed, as all drugs, are BAD in the respect that they are harmful for body and soul. That doesn't make the user bad (or a junkie, but I explaned that part already), only lost. It's like Jade said, drugs are an escape from reality, from life itself - and why use drugs to escape from the most far out joyride there is? Deal with things instead of running away, the problems aren't going away just because you stick your head in the sand, right? THAT'S why I think weed is bad. There. I'm done with this discussion. If you want to respond, Luna I will read it, I will not respond though. I think we've said it all, and neither side is likely to change their point of view. And maybe, if other countries were to legalize (like Jema said, it's not likely to happen here, very few people wants it legalized here) maybe those countries would be able to present some encouraging crime statistics, and then I might reconsider. Until then, I think I'll stick around in my own little Utopia. I kind of like it here! Light and love - and thanks for an interesting discussion, all of you! Jenny :)

Phoenix	23 May 2002
As to my knowledge, there is no proof that marijuana is a gateway drug to other drugs.

lunalafey	23 May 2002
I was not implying that you where trying to "push" your opinion. I have just seen alot when it comes to the decriminalization of this drug. Things that MANY people are not aware of. Education IS the key, it's not the drugs, it's the personallity. Take all recreational drugs off the streets and we will have kids dropping left and right from huffing paint. And not all people who smoke pot are lost or trying to run away. Smoking pot for some people can be very motivational, meditational and creative. In no way sticking their head in the sand. Coffee and chocolate are bad for the body too..very bad actually. It makes me sick that society can be so hypocritical. Making dangerouse things legal and harmless one not. *** What does the doorman's lack of pot-smoking habits have to do with his shooting noname? And why would he NOT have shot him if he had smoked some pot?*** The pot smoker would have been functioning way more normally.(and less likely to shoot, a person given that responsibility who is 'clean' could snap from the paranoia as well) Sleeping and eating habits would have continued making the stoner 'healthy' where as the meth user is delirious not only from the drug but the lack of the basic nesseccities. He'd probably shoot his own boss at this point. There are way worse things than pot. The point as well, if it was legal, there would NOT be a million dollar operation to guard The REAL issue is use and abuse and education. some statistics...countries where use of marijuana is tolerated, only 27% of high school students, tried or used. In the US(where I live and have children)the number is a staggering 86%.

Original Destiny	23 May 2002
I guess i look at it from an evolution point of view...Mankind has evolved alongside drugs...it is a part of all cultures...many still use drugs in religious practices...to expand the mind etc...I suppose it is the mind set that counts...back in the sixties... when i was a hippy (hate the word) drugs were taken to open up the mind. We wanted to expand our awareness...it isn't like that today...no matter what any government tries to do in restricting drugs we have a natural relationship with them...its part of our ancestoral heritage...:TFOOL

Liliana	23 May 2002
Right in the center of PA, in Amish country. But I heard about it like 3 months ago on some show like 20/20, even listed things to wacth out for to see if your kids addited to cow turds lol (like the bowl thing, and muddy/crappy pants lol) We are in a prime area for it tho, cows arent far away ;) To open up a totally different kettle, I think prostitution should be legalized too, so it ould be controled easier on health issues

Mermaid	23 May 2002
In NZ, at least, there is a middle ground - it's called decriminalisation. What this means is that you'll still get a big fat fine if they find you with it (ie it's not actually legal), but it won't go on your record as a criminal offence to stop you getting a job when you're older. People over here have been pushing for decriminalisation of marajuana for years, and it seems like a good compromise to me. (We even have 'J-Day' each year, when people get out and protest about it!) Jenny - you've made heaps of good points. But I just wanted to point out that if we do legalise marajuana it would be subject to age controls like alcohol and cigarettes. I'm not saying that we should legalise it (except for medical use) - I'm just saying that if we do it wouldn't be available to 14 year old kids at the corner store! And I heard of some folks a while back that were interested in doing a study of the effect of marajuana while driving - but of course, as soon as they published it they'd be nabbed by the cops! :) Blessings -

wavebreaker	24 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Mermaid I'm not saying that we should legalise it (except for medical use) - I'm just saying that if we do it wouldn't be available to 14 year old kids at the corner store! The age limit here is 18 (16 for alcohol).

Kiama	24 May 2002
I'd like to point out something which arose from this discussion: The point of this thread was not to try and convince others of whatever view is beng purported the most... It was quite simply to discuss it, and at least understand what all sides of the argument say. Once we understand all sides, we are better equipped to think about the issue holistically, and better equipped to defend our own viewpoint later on, if the subject were to arise in a more serious context. I thankyou all, esp. Jenny-Li and Lunalafey, for making this a wonderfully intellectual and thorough exloration of such an interesting and implicatory subject. Kiama

lunalafey	24 May 2002
The Emerald Triangle is a tri-county area in which I live. It has been given the name because of the amount of weed that is grown here. With that being the case, the MAJORITY of the population smokes pot. Most pot smokers I know do only that, smoke the sensi. They are also against the harder drugs. These are mellow, peaceful, respectable and responsible people. They have jobs, or own a business, or own land. We still have crime, but most is related to speed and heroin use and users. Pot related crimes(not counting busts)are killings and it's over money or being a snitch. Growers have to protect thier investment and their future, right?(ick) Making it legal would bring down the price, allow smokers to grow their own without fear. Eliminating the money hungry killers. I love where I live, everyone is friendly. The rednecks and the hippies all get along. It is a community full of open minded folks. Now I wonder why that is ? could it be....the weed ? This community is all about marijuana in one way or another. We have a hemp giftshop(clothes etc.) with a BIG leaf sign in the middle of town. There was a little bit of controversy over it, but it's still there and has been for 3 years. Tourists are quite amused and amazed at the open display of a social taboo. Currently the anti-drug campain has gone so far as to run commercials implying that pot smokers support terrorism...OUCH. Anyone wanting to know more?...ask me, I think it would be safe to say that I am qualified, by my enviroment, to give out info. Thank you Kiama, leave it to you to start such a disscusion. for fun, there's a very cute and funny movie 'Saving Grace' and it's pot friendly too..and here's another one 'Half-Baked' and one about the 'big boy's', that's what we call them here, 'Homegrown' Billy Bob Thornton and John Lithgow, he's the kingpin. THIS is about the dangerous side of the herb.

The Legalising Cannabis thread was originally posted on 22 May 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.