~ Monogamy

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 21 May 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

kayne	21 May 2002
How would you define 'Monogamy' and do think it is neccessary for a relationship to work?

aeonx	21 May 2002
Hi kayne. Interesting topic! :) I just had to look up 'monogamy' on dictionary.com, and got this: mo·nog·a·my Pronunciation Key (m-ng-m) n. The practice or condition of having a single sexual partner during a period of time. The practice or condition of being married to only one person at a time. The practice of marrying only once in a lifetime. Zoology. The condition of having only one mate during a breeding season or during the breeding life of a pair. *lol* I put a bit more into the concept of monogamy than just having a single sexual partner. Monogamy isn't all about not sleeping with others. One can be faithful, or unfaithful, in many different ways. There are degrees of cheating. For example, I would not have tolerated that my boyfriend would dance *very* intimate with another girl. I know, I know, I'm one of the jealous ones! :D I don't know how exactly to explain myself here. :P Flirting is OK, to a certain degree. I think I can handle that. However, I don't want to be in the same room then. *lol* I would define 'monogamy' as being totally devoted to one person, not only the sexual way. Kissing, touching or having sex with other are stricktly forbidden. I guess hugs are OK. :P Cheating on your boy/girlfriend is a bad thing, but sometimes neccessary in order for the relationship to survive. I would never cheat on my partner, but I have friends who almost need it. I used to say that if you needed to cheat, you weren't really in love with your partner. However, I've had other experiences. A very close friend of mine cheated on his girlfriend, and I told him that he couldn't really care for her. Yet, he said he was in love with her, and he didn't know why he had this urge to cheat. I know him that well that he wouldn't lie about this, and he would never say he was in love if he wasn't. Well, that's my opinion. :) ~aeonx~

Umbrae	21 May 2002
Monogamy is a choice. Used to be that folks pointed to certain types of birds “They mate for life…” Now we know that to be untrue. The Birds pair for life, and act as little trollops. Often a nest will have eggs with no two fathers alike. So much for finding our guidance in nature. It is a choice. Available to humans. To be monogamous is to be human.

aeonx	21 May 2002
I think humans are serial-monogamists. Few relationships could survive if the couple had to share their entire life together, not having the oppertunity to be with any others. And yes, I do realize that many, many couples do exactly this, for example when it comes to arranged marriages. Often these women/men can't divorce either. But that's another discussion. I know some people have lived together forever, and still love each other much, but unfortunately, this is seldom. I suppose this has something to do with society today too. Everything has to be so much more exciting these days. Just consider sex. Nowadays everything should be 'allowed' and people are more open-minded. I think that many times exactly this removes a lot of the neccessary magic in a relationship. Also, if one gets in bed with a person two weeks after they've met (which is pretty accepted today), the relationship has already suffered. We humans love mystery, enigmas and excitement. If a relationship could last for a very long time, one needs to keep the mystery. I read an article once about an old couple who had spent their whole life together, and neither had ever had anyone else. The secret, they said, was that they learned something about the other person ... each day. ~aeonx~

Rhiannon	21 May 2002
Monogamy is a difficult thing. But I think in order to have what many of us would consider a "real" relationship, that it's absolutely neccessary. I won't even mention all the health reasons. The funny thing is, I'm NOT a jealous type. At least not as far as actual sex is concerned. I could totally understand somebody needing to go be with someone else for a night. We could have a discussion of what caused this behavior and get past it. What I WILL NOT put up with is any kind of emotional attachment to another person. I feel that this is cheating more than just physical contact. If you have an emotional tie to someone other than your partner, then you are thinking about that person, wanting to be with that person, wishing your partner was that person... whatever. It's one thing for you to fantasize about being with David Duchovny or Heath Leger, or Pamela Anderson or whoever... you're not likely to be able to follow up on that. ;) But when you start fantasizing about the guy/girl in the next cubicle at work... then you can be in for a world of trouble! Rhiannon :) BTW: I love the term serial-monogamist!

aeonx	21 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Rhiannon What I WILL NOT put up with is any kind of emotional attachment to another person. I feel that this is cheating more than just physical contact. If you have an emotional tie to someone other than your partner, then you are thinking about that person, wanting to be with that person, wishing your partner was that person... whatever. It's one thing for you to fantasize about being with David Duchovny or Heath Leger, or Pamela Anderson or whoever... you're not likely to be able to follow up on that. ;) But when you start fantasizing about the guy/girl in the next cubicle at work... then you can be in for a world of trouble! I agree with you here. It would be far worse it my guy was thinking all day about a picnic on the beach with Ms. Johnson next door! *lol* I don't know if I would be able to forgive him if he slept with another woman, even though it didn't mean anything. I think I would have been way to hurt. Me too! Don't remember where I got it from, somebody used the term in this kind of discussion some time ago. :) ~aeonx~

Geenius at Wrok	21 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by kayne How would you define 'Monogamy' and do think it is neccessary for a relationship to work? Why do you ask?

Liliana	21 May 2002
I needed to cheat once, I may eedto cheat again someday Im not sure, but the details arent something I really need to get into here lol Im also guilty of having emotional attachments to others than my partner,but I didnt love him any less, didnt wish he were them, or anything of the sort. I just loved them as well. I have a lotof love lol. Is it needed to make a relationship work? For some people, probably not. It depends on the reasons for not being so.

Geenius at Wrok	21 May 2002
"Needed to cheat"? If you think you need to cheat, what you need is to be out of the relationship. Or, in rare circumstances, to mutually redefine the relationship so that what you're doing is not cheating.

Liliana	21 May 2002
You wouldnt understand unless you were there, my husband kows what happened, knows why, understands, and thats why it hasnt happened again, I doubt it will but im not denying that it may if situations revert.

RedWood	21 May 2002
It is a persons choice....Personally...There is no way on this green earth that I would be with my S.O if he cheated on me...I just couldn't do it...If I ever feel the need to cheat I will let him know and hopefully work the problem out so I will stop feeling that way..Each person is different and I guess whatever makes it work for you..

jade	21 May 2002
in my relationship......yes manogomy is absolutely essential. there would be no other options for myself or my hubby. without our monogomous relationship - we wouldn't have a relationship. in light, jade

Umbrae	22 May 2002
I have been with my wife for 17 years. Monogamous. But my eyes do wander…

Cat	22 May 2002
For me, monogamy is the ideal. Casual sex just doesn't appeal, and James IS my partner. He's not just the person I have sex with, he's my best friend, my chosen family, my confidante, the one I sleep beside everynight. We share our problems and joys, nurse eachother through illness and watch cartoons together. I don't want to share that with anyone else. I don't think infidelity is ever right, but each case is different; and we are all people with flaws and failings. I cheated on J once, when we were in different countries and I was lonely, low and scared. And it's the thing I'm most ashamed of doing. In the end it was myself I hurt most, I've been forgiven, and the incident is forgotten - but I still haven't managed to forgive myself. So a word of warning and not just about cheating: when you break your own ethics, you have to live with that knowledge.

aeonx	22 May 2002
Cat: very well said! :)

Malachite	22 May 2002
Personnally, I'd see monogamy as the ideal, to answer the question... but that doesn't mean its necessary for any relationship...I think people's impressions of the badness come from the surprise, shock and betrayal...if bigamy or polygamy were our cultural norm, we might accept two, three or four person relationships as normal, expected, but still be shocked and betrayed if one of the group had a secret affair with someone from outside the group. Maybe some people wouldn't mind a multiple relationship...kinda difficult, I guess, but each to their own... But for me, if I promise someone something, I'll keep it. And I'd expect anyone I settle down with to feel the same way.

Jeanette	22 May 2002
This is a topic with some very strong opinions! As for me, I have been with my husband for 21 years. If he ever cheated I would be devastated (whether he had a sexual affair or an emotional affair). I would never cheat on him, I wouldn't be able to live with myself afterwards. If I felt I was in a situation that might lead to infidelity, I would have to remove myself. I guess some do it because of the exhilaration/thrill they derive from it? I cherish my marriage and my family, I am honored to wear my wedding band and let everyone know how very fortunate I am. Over time, this commitment has come to mean more to me with every passing day, and it is definitely something magical and sacred and something I want to preserve and protect.

Diana	22 May 2002
I don't suppose anyone can lay down the law on this. One has to go according to one's heart and intuition. My husband's been the only one for me for over 20 years. Umbrae: my eyes wander too! When a handsome, gorgeous guy walks by, I always notice him. My kid and husband always laugh at me when my eyes start popping out! And my kid always says "are you in love with him" and I always say "oh yeah, headoverheels!". But it's just a joke!

Kiama	22 May 2002
Hi! Well, this thread's a toughie... Lots of views and responses... Here's my experience, and what I learned from it... I have been with my boyfriend for 14 months now. We both love each other, and we both know that we have loved before, and will love again. I suppose you could call it a soul-mate thing... Anyway, Simon (My boyf) was the first man I slept with, and was supposed to be my last. I made a promise to myself that he would be the only man I shared such intimacy with... However, it didn't work out that way, and I broke that promise by sleeping with a good friend. I don't know exactly why, but one of the influencing factors was because the thought of never actually knowing what it is like to sleep with other people is daunting. Like I have been told by my friends, and by Simon, I am 17 (I was 16 at the time I met Simon) and they feel that somehow I am missing out on the things teenagers that age do... Y'know, go out and have the sexual experiences. Simon was particularly worried about this, because in some way he felt that he was stifling me and preventing me from having the experiences I 'should' be having... Well, this wasn't the main reason I did it, but it did help me make the decision easier... I think the fact that, without a word passing bewteen any of our lips, all those concerned knew it would happen at some point, and better sooner or later. Well, it did happen. And all I can tell you is the word 'Guilt'. Although there are no adequate words to descirbe this horrible guilt and gut-wrneching feeling, so I'll have to stick with 'guilt'... It was worse than guilt, I just can't explain it. I phoned my boyfriend up as soon as I woke up, and told him. (I figured it is better to tell the truth.) He said he knew it would happen, he was glad I told him immediately cuz he couldn't cope with me being dishonest and lying to him about it, and he tried to console me. One of the things he said was that he didn't mind as much, cuz he knew that, even though I had slept wit hth eother guy, I loved Simon, in the way only two lovers and life partners can love each other. That consoled both me and Simon. But it has taken me nearly 8 months to sort myself out about what happened. It strengthened Simon and I's relationship dramatically... We both grew closer, and shared th epain together. It was like we had overcome one of thos ehuge obstacles married couples go through, and we had gotten through it, albeit with a couple of scrape, but on the inside, we loved each other, and valued each other even more. I realised just how much I really did love Simon. I had known it before, but this event really brought it home to me... However, I still have to live with the guilt. When I slept with the other guy, I not only broke a worless vow to Simon, but a vow to myself. The relationship grwe stronger, but something inside me was destroyed. That is what I have to live with. That is the price I pay for what I did. That is something I hope nobody has to ever feel. My suggestion to those who want to know if sleeping with somebody else behind the SO's back will strengthen their relationship: You could try, I'm not telling you not to.... But I would not recommend risking your sanity, peace of mind, or your relationship for it. It's just not worth it. It really isn't. Now, on a lighter note... Anyone heard of Polyamoury? This is basicaly where a couple who are in love, have room in that relationship for a third person, who is equal to both, and is loved equaly by both. One of my friends has such a relationship... Well, nearly.. He is handfasted to a bisexual woman, and there is room in there for another bisexual woman whom both love equally and who loves both equally... There isn't one at the moment though. This is a practise undertaken by quite a few people, mostly Pagans or people following 'alternative' paths... I'm not sure about the exact workings of it all, cuz it doesn't appeal to me (I'm a jealous Cancerian!)... This is a case when monogamy can be flouted, but the relationship still have love in it. Come to think of it, my experience was another one where monogamy was flouted and love still remained. I disagree that to cheat on your S.O you cannot be in love with them. It usually is the case, yes, where the 'cheter' isn't in love with their S.O, but in a few cases, they are... I think over-generalising such situations can lead to confusion. Well, that's my tuppence. (Actually, it turned out to be more like a thruppence!) Kiama

cricket	22 May 2002
hrm.... I think this deals with a person's definition of monogamy. To some, it's not even so much as looking at a person outside of a current relationship. To others, the relationship is open to nearly anything - as long as the other person in the relationship is secure in the knowledge they have a special place in the other's heart. Each of these extremes have their drawbacks. Somewhere in the middle is ideal, imo. The best relationship I've personally been in was not the traditional monogamous relationship. Both of us were 'free' to have outside sexual relations (as long as we used protection). We were 'allowed' to go on what we called dates - after the other person in the main relationship met and approved of the person we were going with. What we had was built more on trust and honesty than anything else. We could say anything to each other, as long as it was truthful. We could do almost anything as long as it wasn't meant to hurt each other. Traditional monogamy had nothing to do with it. We were secure in the knowledge that we meant the world to each other, that we were meant to be together, and that we would do anything in our power to keep the other from getting hurt. What I guess this boils down to is that monogamy is a horse of many different colors. It's not necessary at all for a healthy relationship, as long as the people in the relationship understand that they are a major part of each other's lives. Does that make sense?

Kiama	23 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by cricket What I guess this boils down to is that monogamy is a horse of many different colors. It's not necessary at all for a healthy relationship, as long as the people in the relationship understand that they are a major part of each other's lives. Does that make sense? That makes perfect sense, Cricket! This bit was what I was tryng to get acorss at some point in my post, although you managed it so more eloquently! In my situation, this is what my boyfriend knew, and that is why he forgave me and acepted what had happened. But, I think I could not cope with the guilt of doing it, so I won't be doing it again! It all depends on how well both partner would cope with it, and esp. on whether or not they have jealous tendencies! Kiama

aeonx	23 May 2002
Kiama, you just encouraged a new thread. :D You'll understand when you see it. ~aeonx~

Pollux	25 May 2002
Second post today. AND UFF!!! This Forums keep spinning too fast! How will I retrieve all I've lost when I get DSL??? :( I wanted to post a reply, but now I come back and see all this opinions and stuff... and probably I would not add much to the discussion... But I definitely agree with Kiama, Aeonx, and all of the people "chosing" Monogamy. As for Eyes that wander, I think it is phisiologic... It may happen. But surely, as Milan Kundera says in his most famous book (I realaborated it cos I don't remember the exact sentence): you may feel like having sex with one zillion women, but it is just ONE you want to sleep side by side, and wake up in the same bed with. Probably to me monogamy is not a choice at all. It just feels right. There's no rational thinking and chosing. I see myself in Kiama's experience, I just want to stay with one person. It's only that one that makes my head spin, my body ache and my heart go on fire. SOOOOOOOOOOO Pathethic. Nut so true. AND SO DAMN PROUD OF IT!!! It seems that the tendency towards monogamy is tronger in the young generation than the older (Diana and Umbrae don't get offended!). *LOL* :P Jade: I couldn't think of a more hermetic, dense and concise but sharp expression. I am definitely with you.

Diana	25 May 2002
Pollux: just let me pull myself out of my armchair, rise myself on my arthritic legs, find my walking stick and cuff you around your ears for that sarcastic disrespect to your elders that you have hinted at!! Kiama: you know, we're always regretting things in life, and most of the time we'd regret these things if we hadn't done them. I mean, if you hadn't gone with this other guy, in a few years time you may be regretting it and thinking that you'd passed up a good chance to experiment different sexual experiences. It reminds me of a friend I was having coffee with up in town today. She was feeling all sad 'cos she had never bothered to do any serious studies and felt she had missed out on an interesting professional life. But a few weeks back, I was chatting to someone who regretted having spent so many years studying, instead of opening up a sailing club, 'cos that's what he really wanted to do. One spends one life feeling guilty instead of just taking what life gives us with feelings of gratitude.

purplelady	25 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by cricket The best relationship I've personally been in was not the traditional monogamous relationship. Both of us were 'free' to have outside sexual relations (as long as we used protection). We were 'allowed' to go on what we called dates - after the other person in the main relationship met and approved of the person we were going with. What we had was built more on trust and honesty than anything else. We could say anything to each other, as long as it was truthful. We could do almost anything as long as it wasn't meant to hurt each other. Traditional monogamy had nothing to do with it. We were secure in the knowledge that we meant the world to each other, that we were meant to be together, and that we would do anything in our power to keep the other from getting hurt. What I guess this boils down to is that monogamy is a horse of many different colors. It's not necessary at all for a healthy relationship, as long as the people in the relationship understand that they are a major part of each other's lives. Does that make sense? It makes a lot of sense to me , cricket. I was in a relationship very much like this and I now miss it a lot. I've been officially married and divorced twice. Traditional marriage simply doesn't work for me. We always ended up "cheating" on each other in various ways at some point. I found the relationship like the one you speak of (which by the way was with my second husband-After we divorced!) the kind that I would chose if I could. I found real honesty and freedom to be much more of a turn on than my previous relationships that were built on the "traditional monogomous 'til death do we part" model. Not to trash anyone else's beliefs or relationship. I just know that I personally believe a lifelong monogamous relationship isn't for me , and isn't natural at all for humans. And I personally don't feel a bit of guilt about it! In this relationship that I had freedom in , I actually did not "cheat" on him often at all. (Though perhaps he did that more than I ) . I think it was more The Whole idea , in my mind anyhow, that we were free to do whatever we chose and we were here because we chose to be together, and not for any other reason. Not because a priest declared us married , or for the kids , or the in-laws, or becuase it was " right".

amyel	25 May 2002
IMHO, monogamy is essential to a relationship. I wouldn't be married if I didn't think that. Prior to meeting my husband, I have been in relationships where I cheated, was cheated on, or was the one the other person was cheating with (never knowingly, though). It doesn't matter to me which side of the cheating you are on. It is hurtful to both in the relationship. Trust is thrown out the window. In response to aenox's original question, I define monogamy as being in a relationship - especially sexual - with one other person. My husband is a very outgoing person, and some would define him as a flirt. I don't mind this, it revives the spark for both of us. There is something sensual about seeing him being him and knowing that he's going home with me!

RedWood	25 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by amyel There is something sensual about seeing him being him and knowing that he's going home with me! I really like how you worded that.

cricket	26 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by purplelady I found real honesty and freedom to be much more of a turn on than my previous relationships that were built on the "traditional monogomous 'til death do we part" model. Not to trash anyone else's beliefs or relationship. I just know that I personally believe a lifelong monogamous relationship isn't for me , and isn't natural at all for humans. And I personally don't feel a bit of guilt about it! In this relationship that I had freedom in , I actually did not "cheat" on him often at all. (Though perhaps he did that more than I ) . I think it was more The Whole idea , in my mind anyhow, that we were free to do whatever we chose and we were here because we chose to be together, and not for any other reason. Not because a priest declared us married , or for the kids , or the in-laws, or becuase it was " right". Yes! That's exactly it. Because the people in the relationship aren't bound by all the rules and traditions, it opens things up immensely. It's much more comfortable - and the more comfortable the relationship, the more sensual and fulfilling it can be. A lot of the reason people cheat on each other (imo) is simply because it's forbidden. It's human nature to push and break rules. Add to that the fact that doing something a little different now and then is a good thing... *stops to think* It's something like having bologna sandwiches on white, mayo one one slice of bread, a single slice of the same kind of cheese.... every day... for the rest of your life. Nothing about it changes. Nothing but bologna, bologna, bologna. Then, all of a sudden, you come across a nice plate of spaghetti and meatballs.... *L* Sounds kind of bad, talking about a relationship like this, but it's true. People need that type of variety every now and again. It's just a lot easier in an open relationship.

Geenius at Wrok	26 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by cricket It's something like having bologna sandwiches on white, mayo one one slice of bread, a single slice of the same kind of cheese.... every day... for the rest of your life. Nothing about it changes. Nothing but bologna, bologna, bologna. Sounds like you picked the wrong mate. You needed to marry a plate of penne arrabbiata.

Kiama	26 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by cricket Nothing but bologna, bologna, bologna. Then, all of a sudden, you come across a nice plate of spaghetti and meatballs.... *L* Sounds kind of bad, talking about a relationship like this, but it's true. People need that type of variety every now and again. It's just a lot easier in an open relationship. I can empathise with this alot at the moment. I've come to the conclusion that men are like buses... You get nothing for say, 15 years, then suddenly, you catch one, and find there are another 3 coming along too! I spent 15 years of my life boyfriend-less... Now I am in a long term relationship with the man I want to spend the rest of my life with, and I found out today that the gorgoues barman I work with fancies me... (He is SOOOOOOO wonderful... :P) Now, why could this not have happened to me say, 2 years ago??!!! It is very tempting to say, hey... I fancy a change... Simon, gimme a couple of nights, and I'll be back later! But I can't bring myself to do it. I guess part of going with somebody else is the 'forbidden fruit', and the 'newness'... Its different somehow... Kiama

cricket	27 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Geenius at Wrok Sounds like you picked the wrong mate. You needed to marry a plate of penne arrabbiata. *falls over laughing* NO, no, no! I actually prefer gingerbread men... They're not wet noodle, but not too stiff. A little sweet, with just enough spice to keep you interested. Some are pocket sized for travel convenience. When you put them in plastic bags, you won't be arrested for murder. Most importantly, when you get tired of them, you can bite their heads off. });):D

phirefly	28 May 2002
as i've mentioned before, i'm lazy, so i'm gonna throw in my $2 with only half the thread read... although some of you seem to have similar views to my own. monogamy, but definition, is about being married to only one person. so, legally, that's what we all get... at least over here in the us. ;P however, i don't think it is necessary for a successful relationship. what -[is]- essential is openness, honesty, trust, and understanding. all too often i see people expecting things from each other rather than discussing them. talk about what you both want, find some common goals, and make compromise on the other things. some people find that monogamy is what they want. some people will find good, working nonmonogamous relationships. communication is really the key :}

The ~ Monogamy thread was originally posted on 21 May 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.