little white lies..or keep your lip zipped?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Jul 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

jakyle	06 Jul 2002
You know when you get the feeling that someone is up to something,and you're afraid to question them about it? In other words,how do you feel about "finding out" the truth the hard way. Would you agree with snooping? Spying? Reading diaries? I know it's a trust thing,but I think that you can trust people too much...... Or,when they forget(conveniently)to mention that on the way home from wherever...that they also stopped at wherever........FOLLOW????

Shower	06 Jul 2002
Hi Jakyle, Yes I do know the feeling, and I've spent energy spying and snooping trying to find out the truth, but I don't think I needed to do any of those things. I think if I listened to my intuition, I knew exactlly what was going on. Not wanting to believe it is what drives a person crazy and makes you want to search for clues. This behaviour could also be the only way to feel your actively doing something in a situation that can make you feel like a sitting duck. There's obviously no communication to you about the other persons feelings and goings on which can make you feel sort of helpless. This is when you have to decide that the only thing you can do is to let go. Take back control of your own life and get on with it, for all the spying and snooping isn't getting *you* anywhere, and you can drive yourself crazy. Unless there is some real communication nothing constuctive can come from trying to figure it all out by yourself. If this person is not sharing, has shut you out. You need to put your energy into concentrating on yourself, as they have done, for the time being. I hope I'm on the right track with all this. I'm sharing from my own experience, I find it can sometimes help not just you but myself at the same time. You may never know the truth. I finally decided I just had to let go of the urge to know exactly what was going on. I knew that *something* was. I was pushed away, the other person had distanced themselves. I finally decided, if they weren't going to communicate, what was I to do? I started delving into the Tarot and it helped me put my focus back on me and my own growth. I purposely didn't ask any questions about the situation. I'd decided the best thing to do was to just take care of myself. It worked. I found with the Tarot, I became very excited about my life again. In time I got over my need *to know* and became at peace with it all. I found I had begun a real adventure on my own with my new interest in Tarot, which I'm still actively persuing. I became excited about life again, and actually enjoyed the time by myself. Of course this is when they decided to come popping back into my world...I guess I just made it look so good!! I have to say though (a little devil in me I guess) some of the spying and detective work was kind of fun. I even had a helper or two on the case, but It took alot of energy from me finally and I decided, ah, it wasn't worth it. (easier said in retrospect I suppose) It used to be hard for me to not know the answers, I guess I'm learning there are some things I'll probably never know the answers to. As to wanting to know the "hard truth". I would liked to have known. At least I would've had something to work with. I would have known which direction to go (the opposite). I think that the hard truth hit me anyway. I don't know how *hard* it really was though, I mean, whats it all matter anyway when you keep the "big" picture in mind. Hope this is not all about your teenage daughter or son that your worried is doing drugs or something...this is sorta like a blind reading. Shower

Dark Inquisitor	06 Jul 2002
I am the sort of person who does not like to sweep things under the rug. But it depends on what kind of relationship you are talking about. I don't believe in spying on children (unless they're obviously acting nuts) & friends, but if it's a husband or lover, all bets are off. Best to make that clear at the beginning, so there will be no misunderstanding. You have to decide if you really can handle the truth, or if you need to wait until a time when you are stronger. Think of the worst case scenario and its' outcome, and then consider carefully. (I would consult the tarot just for a second opinion.)Make plans for how you will deal with the worst situation and how you will help yourself afterward. If I decided to proceed, I'd look for patterns & inconsistencies, & devise a strategy based on the person's personality to sort of set them up. I always like to give a man enough rope to hang himself. I like to know exactly what's happened to me & why, so I would not be comfortable with carrying on as usual if I intended to stay with the other person. Tarotphelia

Umbrae	06 Jul 2002
I find spying, snooping, peeking…is as despicable as what the other is doing. I want to find out the hard way. That way, my reaction will not be an overreation. Sometimes, just sometimes…we are wrong. They are going places we feel they should not be…for reasons we cannot see; good reasons, reasons that are honorable. Sometimes our spouses remain friends with ex’s. Just friends. And they do friend things and do not do the other things. You do not want to become contemptible, to find out that this case, is the exception…

Geenius at Wrok	06 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by jakyle You know when you get the feeling that someone is up to something,and you're afraid to question them about it False premise. I question them about it.

Shower	06 Jul 2002
I wouldn't go as far as saying that the urge to spy is despicable, you want to know the truth, and our human nature can lead us to behave in a way which may not be quite so...mmm...dignified? I also think that if your feeling betrayed and lied to when you've invested in the relationship, you feel like "hey this is my life too!" "I've got something involved here!" and can feel justified in wanting to know exatly where you stand, where your life is headed. After all this involves you too! I would never say someone was despicable if when being betrayed they did everything they could to find out the truth, especially when being lied to. It could be a little desperate, possibly futile and in the end wasted energy in the wrong place, but despicable seems too judgemental...he's probrably right though...something to avoid. I would definitley say though...take the high road. Umbrae is right. I don't know the details of the situation, so If there is a chance that this could be innocent, don't become insecure and create something in your mind. If your really feeling like something is going on I'd say talk to the person...give them a chance first to be honest about what's going on with them. I guess my final answer would be I'd want the hard truth. What I did with it after is another story, but I'd definitley want to know what I was working with, and I'd definitely want to know if my work was in vain. You say your afraid to ask. Is that because you don't want to hear the truth, or because you feel like you may be wrong? That could make a big difference too. Shower

kayne	06 Jul 2002
I think naturally I am a very trusting person... what people want to keep to themselves is there business... and I guess that is sort of a naive way at looking at things too, as what they may be keeping to themselves may be hurtful to me... Hmm... I think I would rather not go through the hurt. I value honesty and openess and I hope the people I have close to me do too...

jade	06 Jul 2002
one word, that's all i need and i find, in my life, that when i give people clarity they shine (mirror) it back to me :D i trust people to be clear and honest. if they aren't then, IMO, in the long run, they are the ones that miss out, not me. for me, integrity and walking my talk and living my values are HUGE so i would never spy or attempt to uncover the 'truth'. i just allow people to be themselves and if they are lieing to me and i find out, i confront them with clarity and honesty. if they continue to lie then i move on. i know i'm perhaps sounding simplistic, but that's how i live my life. i really could care less if people have alterior motives.........i just don't play those games and if i'm not playing then they are just playing by themselves LOL i try not to get drawn into it. (and if i do, then as soon as i notice that i have,......i stop!) in light, jade :D

Dark Inquisitor	06 Jul 2002
I am not saying you should snoop for amusement, or frivilously. Or be paranoid about every detail of your spouse's life. Unfortunately, I have learned the hard way that there are people who are drawn to the innocent & trusting. Those qualities make us vulnerable . The dishonest & unscrupulous see us as just plain stupid. Our values and morals are just what they are looking for- so they can more easily get away with whatever they want to do to us. They are hoping you WILL be too concerned with the value of trust , that you WILL believe in eternal forgiveness, that you WILL shut out all evidence of their duplicity. They can be quite convincing and are often the first to claim offense at any little thing. I don't like that this is true, but there is nothing I can do to change the real world. When your health and family are at risk, I don't think you can be too careful. I have wasted plenty of time trying to be patient & understanding with people who do not extend the same niceties to me. This is time I can never recover, and pain I still have to live with. I wish I could tell you a pretty fairy tale, but I can only tell you that sometimes is more important to be strong than to be nice. Tarotphelia

Shower	06 Jul 2002
Quote: Unfortunately, I have learned the hard way that there are people who are drawn to the innocent & trusting. Those qualities make us vulnerable . The dishonest & unscrupulous see us as just plain stupid. Our values and morals are just what they are looking for- so they can more easily get away with whatever they want to do to us. This is true. I am an honest, trusting person myself. Because I don't think like the dishonest, unscrupulous or otherwise devious person, it's the last thing I suspect in others. When someone of the other type recognises this, they have found a perfect victim.

Sam	06 Jul 2002
depends. if it's someone i met this morning, i wouldn't give a rat's @ss. but if it was someone that i knew pretty well, i would do whatever it took to find out!!!

lunalafey	06 Jul 2002
I have a situation in my life currently where I am curious as can be about what IS going on so I can relate. Sounds like you are dealing with a deception issue, where mine is not. Either way I don't think it is good to be less trustworthy and spy and snoop. I can't tell a lie, actually I can but I'm so horrible at it that it's never worked so I don't do it, besides it's really not my nature(then why lie at all? to keep from getting punched) I have found respectful ways of getting the info I may be looking for, one is to be creative with words. Phrases worded just so can bring about surprising reactions. Using your intuiton is key, taking a step back and watching, using what you feel, your line of sight, will aid in getting to the bottom of the situation. OBSERVE from a step away Remember one thing, no matter what you do or what they do or happens, in the end, it all comes out in the wash. When it does do you want to face the fact that you got your hands dirty by snooping?

Mermaid	06 Jul 2002
I can understand the urge to snoop if you're suspicious, but I know that I'd hate someone to do it to me so I'd try not to do it to anyone else. I've been in a situation where my boyfriend admitted to reading an old journal of mine (which he 'found' in my room) and I found it really hard to trust him after that for ages. I would've told him anything that was in it if he'd asked, but the fact that he didn't think to ask if he could read it really really pissed me off. So no, I wouldn't do it to anyone else ... but I can understand the temptation ...

zorya	07 Jul 2002
i think snooping and spying have a great deal to do with wanting control over our partner. we shouldn't and cannot truly control another. if they choose to do something that we cannot live with, then we still have the control to do with our own lives, what we choose.

VGimlet	07 Jul 2002
I always think it's better to ask than spy. I would rather be told a truth I didn't want to hear than be lied to. *However* I if I was fairly certain the person was lying to me, or avoiding the truth, that alone would say something about the state of the relationship. Same if I didn't tell the truth. I feel trust is the foundation of any *real* relationship, including friendship. And people who trust each other don't spy on each other, IMO. For me, I also trust my intuition. If I feel something secret is going on, chances are excellent I'm right. Not, perhaps exactly what I might suspect, but something. If I was certain someone was lying to me, I would pay attention to what was going on. Not spy, but pay attention. Now, I also feel there are exceptions to this, especially in cases that might involve health, safety, or serious financial stuff.

january	08 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by zorya i think snooping and spying have a great deal to do with wanting control over our partner. My ex-husband swore that I was having an affair because I was "working late." What was I doing? Working late. He took it upon himself to find my journal and because he was so bent on "finding something" he read what he wanted in it. He also made copies and gave them to his parents and sisters. I have never felt so violated in my life. He also used to follow me when I went out. Funny thing is, he was the one who was unfaithful, I found out after the divorce! You see, there were other underlying issues to cause a break-up for which I trusted my intuition and didn't need to expose someone and rub their nose in their mistakes. My parents always trusted me. I never had to hide stuff or lie about where I was. And a couple of times I did lie (being a know-it-all teenager) I was eventually found out. Even if was years later when it didn't matter anymore. That's my point, I think. The truth always comes out when its supposed to. We come to know things when its best for us to know them. Forcing issues can only make matters worse. There are exceptions to everything as this is not a black and white world. For example, I have put energy into finding out if my father was lying about staying on his diabetic diet or not. I had to handle it delicately as not to embarass him... that would have made him even more stubborn! So my advice is, put energy into yourself but know when to carefully question when someone may be in danger. Peace! ~ january

jade	08 Jul 2002
january, very well said! in light, jade

floracove	08 Jul 2002
When it comes to conflict, I am a lets get everyone together and get it out in the open type, I am not a liar and am forever surprised when I have been lied to. And as far as my journal goes, well here it is read it, but don't take it from me. Just hold onto your chin when I get into expressing my sexuality. There you've been warned!

lunalafey	08 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by january My ex-husband swore that I was having an affair... Funny thing is, he was the one who was unfaithful. ~ january Same thing happened to my friend. And it was one of our other friends that said, "If he's persisting you are a cheater, then he's the guily one!" And floracove, I too live by the "open book" rule, though I say 'if you want to know, just ask' I prefer that my writings remain mine.

Kismet	20 Jul 2002
Tarotphelia and Shower, I agree with you. I also agree on trusting your intuition, and to, but have at times needed it verified what I felt. Was it painful to learn the trueth? Yes. But I prefer such to being a fool in the dark and to know where I stand. This is in regard to spouses/lovers. Oh, if the world were a perfect place.... Love and Light, Kismet

purplelady	22 Jul 2002
I'm a Snoop ! For quite some time, I suspected my ex-husband of "cheating" , but I had no Real proof, it kept evading me. But this little nagging voice of intuition just kept on telling me he was, so....................I Really had to search through all those little papers and receipts and things he left in little piles sitting around and then in the bottom of obscure drawers. But I was Right and boy did I open pandora's box, or whatever! Well I figure maybe it's "morally wrong" to snoop, but I would've been a lot stupider to remain in the dark. I don't like to be lied to , lied to by omission, or left in the dark , and so I Will do whatever it takes to uncover truths. Even if it takes some dirty work! And This guy is getting married again soon to someone who is probubly not too bright ,and a little too trusting of a snake! :mad: . My current boyfriend: Occasionally , but not too often, I browse through his briefcase or drawer. I'm usually sorry I did! I find things like bounced checks, it's so lovely! Not! I'm afraid to snoop on him anymore! I think P.I. would be a good proffession for me! My kids I don't really snoop on a lot, I don't think. I mean , yeah, I go into their rooms to tidy up and stuff. I Don't make it a point to read through their personal love letters or whatever they have in there! However, If I thought or suspected they were in any kind of trouble, or seriously hurting themselves, I most certainly Would snoop so that I could know what was going on and protect them. (However, kids can be amazingly crafty! Especially when they look at you with those big eyes and They know You THINK they would never lie to you!) I Wouldn't snoop through a friends things just because I felt like it. If someone in my house leaves something sitting out on the table or dresser, I figure it's fair game and I will read it! I figure if they don't want me to read it, they should at least put it in a drawer!

mermaiden	25 Jul 2002
Hmmm...if your intuition is putting up the red flags, I think you should do what YOU feel is best. However, you should think ahead before you do something and understand that you will be able to live w/it afterwards.

DarkElectric	25 Jul 2002
It's realy hard NOT to snoop if there is something that triggers your curiosity... I was in what I was being TOLD was a "monogamous, committed relationship" for almost two years. I didn't start out as a snoop. What happened? Bizarre, overtly sexual e-mails from women who were NOT professionals, (He claimed these were "unsolicited e-mails.") A peculiar phone call from some bimbo in a computer class he took whom he alleged was just a "friend" (when I answered the phone she asked for him, realized I was not his mom, and hung up on me...). When I called this woman back she denied she was calling HIM and made up some lame story I didn't buy, and so she gave me 'tude'... Various incidents of like nature which were ALWAYS voiciferously denied, so...I started to snoop. No one wants to believe that someone you love, and are planning a future with is such a callous cad that they will, for the sake of their own gratuitous sexual entertainment, put your health at risk, and make a mockery out of the true love and devotion that you expend on them. I consulted the Tarot. It told me the truth even though HE didn't. The cards never lie. I didn't want to be a snoop. I wanted to trust him, but he was making a fool of me, and trying to get away with "Having his cake and eating it too." May he choke on it now. He turned out to be more than just deceitful, he was actually dangerous. I learned that the hard way, when he realized that I was getting too close to the truth, and he couldn't cover it up anymore. He became violent, and left me. The person whom I thought was such a dear, sweet man had been nothing more than a good actor who decided he'd spent too long on the set. His lies were turning on him, and he proceeded to turn on me. If I had been more savvy initially, I would have picked up on the red flags that were waving out of every window in front of my face. But lonlieness does strange things to people's judgement sometimes, and many of us don't have the self confidence to let someone carry their own baggage and walk away. Especially if you have trouble meeting people for relationships, ie; "I haven't turned down a man in 20 years, either one of them" so to speak. And I know that nobody can con someone who doesn't want something really badly. But when that something is love, and a family, it doesn't seem like it's some pie in the sky dream. And this makes one vulnerable to selfish predator types who think it's cool to run around with the floozies, but still come back to the loving woman at home who is stable, dependable, and in their opinion...boring, I guess. But they need that person to get the exciting thrill of "Getting away with something" and that something is YOUR betrayal. If I ever get involved with another man again, I will give him the benefit of the doubt, and not snoop. But I WILL be watching my own back, and if I happen across something suspicious, and get a sketchy reaction when I ask him honestly, I will proceed to snoop anew. Because unfortunately, we now live in a world where we must protect ourselves, since there are so many selfish people out there, and some of them are the very people who took vows to love and protect us, then don't. AIDS and other STD's are both becoming epidemic in the USA among heterosexual, non drug using women between the ages of 14 and 45. I was lucky. But the pain of getting tested for these horrible things after I had been completely faithful was horrendous. And the two weeks waiting for the test results to come back, oddly enough, were worse. Snoop if you feel there's a good reason. I'm not advocating paranoia, or living in fear. Just be aware of what is going on, for your own safety. And, unfortunately that sometimes involves snooping, because if they adamantly REFUSE to tell you the truth, you need proof. For your own peace of mind. Because these cruel cowards think onlyof themselves. And it does always come out in the wash, one way or another.

The little white lies..or keep your lip zipped? thread was originally posted on 06 Jul 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.