WTC site rebuilding?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 30 Jul 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Bella	30 Jul 2002
Here in New York City, there is a lot of discussion regarding what will be done with "Ground Zero", the site of the WTC attack. Apparently, there are six plans under consideration, and all incorporate buildings and a memorial of some sort. This really bothers me. I just can't see putting new office buildings there. To me, it is hallowed ground. There are so many souls there now, and so many bodies that were not found, and are now part of the earth there. It just seems disrespectful. And how would anyone be able to work there? I understand that they want to rebuild the area for businesses, but i just think some things are more important. A memorial alone would be more appropriate. As i think I mentioned a while ago, i witnessed the entire attack from my office window (I'm about a mile away). I was really severely affected by the incident, to the point that I am now on medication, and in therapy, for post-traumatic stress disorder and anxiety. After the incident, when my office reopened, some of us from my job went to the East River facing the site for a "love and light" ceremony. It's actually a bit eerie now. So I'm wondering if it's just me freaking out. What do you think they should do with the site? If you think they should rebuild, could you tell me why? Thanks, Bella

catlin	30 Jul 2002
I am not supporting the idea of rebuilding WTC site again. To me it seems as if someone wanted to place office buildings on the cemetry of Verdun or in Auschwitz but I think most US officials just see the $ factor, I cannot imagine what rents are in NY, especially for offices, but I think they will be pretty high. (((((Bella)))) hope you have good friends/family to help you to come over the effects of this shock soon.

cjtarot	30 Jul 2002
(((BELLA))) I wish you well Bella. Hi all, I visited the WTC site this year..It was horible...you see it on TV, but it doesn't affect you as strongly as when your standing there, clinging to the wire fence around the site just staring at the hole.. If the government was $ so bad..why not put in a museam..I have always considered museums as places of honor. mix history, art and memorials to past victems (from wars to tragedies). That's just my take..If I were in Bella's office, looking out over a beautiful building that holds a special memorial to those who passed, going to work might be a little easier. agian, (((BELLA))) cj

Kiama	30 Jul 2002
Being from the UK, I guess Im a little moe objective than some people from America may be, after witnessing what happened, like you did Bella. I don't mean that my opinion is more valid than anything that comes from the USA, but as you said yourself, you are worrying that its just you 'freraking out'. Well, I can assure you its not just you! I find it a little sick that they could rebuild offices on that site. Like Catlin said, its like building a workplace on top of Auchwitz, or on top of a graveyard... Not very nice at ll. What happened on September 11th was out of the ordinary, and touched millions of people. Something everyday, hum-drum, and somehing that would, in effect, be ignoring what happened, and ignoring the deaths of those who died, has no place in Ground Zero. Something that commemorates those who died, the people in the plane who tried to stop the hijackers, etc... That would be more appropriate. Something to celebrate Life, something where people can go to pay thei respects. Certainly not a hum-drum office building. Just my tuppence, Kiama

Umbrae	30 Jul 2002
Most of you know my story, I visited the site, but during not after. Folks told me before I boarded the plane to go to NYC that, “New York will change your life…” They had no idea. The space would make a lovely park. (((Bella))), thank the Gods you were a mile away.

Sam	30 Jul 2002
On my trip to NYC, we saw the sight. On our way, we saw the wall of rememberance. It was almost two blocks long. so many people were loved in that building! and to just rebuild offices there like nothing ever happened, that would be wrong. I think that they will make a memorial somewhere for it anyway, but the actual sight would be the best.

DarkElectric	30 Jul 2002
I went on Thanksgiving holiday to NYC, and visited the site. Even in late November the fires were still smouldering. The remains of the building looked precisely like the tomb it was, and the scent of death hung in the air like a funeral shroud. IMO, there is NO WAY they should put up another building on that spot. A quiet park with a memorial would be a much better idea. People who lost loved ones that will never be found could spend time there in rememberance. It would also be an example to the fiends who committed this horrendous act of murder that Americans are not all about profit margins, and show the world we still have an inherent sence of decency, and respect our dead. Unfortunately, without some major public protest, I fear there will be new buildings desecrating this site.

jade	30 Jul 2002
i feel that a huge park should be created where music and art is shared. something that will allow people to grieve but also to smile and enjoy this sacred space forever. musicians could be brought in to entertain the public for free. mimes and other entertainers could hang out and do their stuff. with a beautiful fountain in the center representing those that died....perhaps a beautiful angel with spread wings with the names of the victims carved in her wings. in light, jade

Minderwiz	30 Jul 2002
I'm also from the UK and happened to watch the live newscast of the attack, shown here on Sky News. My wife and I had visited NYC before and fell in love with the place. Over the last two weeks we have been visiting friends (also English) now living in Long Island. When we went into the City we could not bring ourselves to go to Ground Zero but we did see some of the memorials and that was deeply moving. We also got chance to read the local press and saw the feeling about any possible 'redevelopment'. Like all who have posted above, we too feel that it would be wrong to turn the site over to money making (though of course that was its original function and I can appreciate at one level that re-sestablishing business there is a message of continuity and refusal to give in to terrorism). We very moved when, visiting Port Jefferson on Long Island, we came across their memorial to 9/11 which simply said 'In all our days we have never seen a day like this'. Memorials not only remind us of the event but also remind us of the emotion of loss and also remind us that such things should not be accepted as part of a normal and sane world. To Bella we extend our deepest sympathy - Its difficult to appreciate what you (and Umbrae) must have gone through. I'm sure the memorial and park are more likely to help you heal than simply office blocks. Blessings Minderwiz

Liliana	30 Jul 2002
I personally dont really want them built, but I can also see my husbands point on the issue, he does. He says they need to be rebuilt with an extra story to show the terrorists that they arent going to bring us down, and that we'll only get bigger and better for it. He also said maybe they should add a third tower and raised his middle finger at me lol, he says the first floor of each building should be a memorial :THP

destinyawaitsme	30 Jul 2002
In case any of you haven't seen the plans (there are 6 different ones I think) here is where you can see them. http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-conceptsphotos.photogallery I wasn't too impressed with them, and from what I read neither were a lot of New York citizens. So I think there will be some reworking definately. I jsut wanted to post this link so you all could see that at least some of the area will be a memorial. But I know what you mean about respecting the dead, and their families. I've been to the OKC Memorial site. It's a really heavy feeling in that place. The air is so thick. I wish I could show you all the pictures. They all turned out reaqlly funny. Had orbs in them. I've been told that those are spirits. So I would hate to think that there were all these spirits walking around new office buildings.

zorya	30 Jul 2002
i think it is important to not only memorialize the dead, but to remember their families and the survivors. i would like to see it become a place where healing might take place. i think a park would be best.

jade	30 Jul 2002
i know that years back there was a macdonalds restaurant in the states somewhere that a guy came in with a gun and killed alot of people........macdonalds didn't rebuild. instead they made the space into a park...........it just shows that it doesn't always have to be about the money. in light, jade

Mermaid	30 Jul 2002
I can see why you would not want to rebuild immediately. The pain for the families is still too raw and it would be hard for them to visit an office block instead of a grave. A park sounds great to me, like they have at Culloden, or Gallipolie. But on the other hand if the building plain does go ahead, perhaps it would help to remember that there is probably not a single building on this earth that isn't built on someone's grave. We all go back to her in the end. Just my 2 cents, not meant to offend.

amyel	30 Jul 2002
I've heard this too. I'd really like to see some green space there, witha memorial. But if they insist on building, I like the museum idea.

VGimlet	31 Jul 2002
While my head understands that the Port needs to use at least a part of the land for office space....my heart wants it to be a park, with lots of trees, and fountains, and quiet places for people to sit.

jade	31 Jul 2002
i still think my idea was a good one. i really really do. jade

Bella	31 Jul 2002
thank you all for posting (now I don't feel like it's just me being weird about all this). I think a memorial and park is a good idea--the families of the victims really do need somewhere to go. Whatever healing will happen for them will take a very long time. There is a sweet, lovely woman on my block with a young son--she lost her husband there. I can see the pain in her face everytime I see her. I know of others as well, families, children, who are a long way from healing. They need somewhere to go to help this along... I guess I just feel an office building there is a sacrilege. I understand destinyawaitsme, who describes the heavy feeling OKC memorial. That feeling still pervades all the downtown NY area, in the same way the the smoke and the horrible smell (I cannot tell you how absolutely terrible that was) pervaded the area all through the winter. The smoke is gone, but it's like a dark cloud remains. And I do feel that the spirits of those lost so unexpectedly are still there, and certainly not at rest.

Liliana	31 Jul 2002
I like concepts 2 and 6 the best, 2 has that whole middle finger thing lol, while I like the obelisk memorials in number 6 :THP

Dark Inquisitor	31 Jul 2002
I don't think anything should be on that site for a long , long time. America has a disturbing tendency to try to gloss over the meaningful and shove things under the rug. Many people regard grief and other deep emotions as something to be hidden and ashamed of , and would rather put it all behind them immediately. Nothing will stop business from building there - the land is too valuable. It will be dressed up as a new triumph over terror, but the bottom line is really the only consideration for the developers. I can't understand who would want to work in new bulidings on that site, knowing it would be the biggest target on earth. Some kind of memorial has to be done, and it definitely shouldn't involve music & mimes.( Are there jugglers at Auschwitz?) I would like to see the damaged art from the buildings & the remains of the facade incorporated somehow, rather than just a meaningless park with decorations. Tarotphelia

jade	31 Jul 2002
i believe that healing comes thru time, and the ability to smile greatly assists in that process. i have no idea what is at auschwitz but is that the only type of healing/memorial that is acceptable? whatever they did there? i feel that in years to come. when the mothers of those children want to sit and 'talk' to their husbands that they lost, it would be more healing to find a smile somewhere in their grief rather than simply a memorial. it would also make more people want to be there.......life replacing the death. in light, jade

raeanne	31 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Tarotphelia ...America has a disturbing tendency to try to gloss over the meaningful and shove things under the rug. Many people regard grief and other deep emotions as something to be hidden and ashamed of , and would rather put it all behind them immediately. ... Tarotphelia, I have to disagree with you. Have you ever been to Gettysburg? I don’t think anything is glossed over there. How about Oklahoma City? Americans didn’t shove that under the rug. There are war memorials and “in memory of” statues and gardens all over the country. Everyday there are people at the Viet Nam Memorial Wall because they want and need to remember. We celebrate Veteran’s Day, Memorial Day, and many other “Days” each year. There may be individuals that want to “put it behind them” but I believe the majority of Americans treasure our history, both the good and the bad. Whatever happens at the WTC site, it will not please everyone. But, I feel that there is a lot of work going into the planning of this memorial to make it a real tribute to ALL those who died. The 7 people who died in the first WTC attack will also be included since their memorial, which was inside the WTC, was destroyed on 9/11.

Dark Inquisitor	31 Jul 2002
I was referring more to the personal level of things- we like memorials, and the media wallows in grief endlessly for $$$$. But when you have a loss in your personal life, people can get really nervous if it goes on too long (in their opinion) or if you are not bouncing back like they think you should. "Get over it" is a surprisingly big philosophy that can be a hurtful surprise to grieving people. Tarotphelia

DarkElectric	31 Jul 2002
I know I may be tipping a sacred cow or two here, but, debate is debate. As far as glossing things over, I agree that there is a tendency in America to either do that, or media-ize it to death in a less than respectful way. Gettysburgh, no. Columbine High School, no. Kansas City, no. But the TRIAL of Tim Mc Veigh was a media hoedown. And, CRASH, here goes the cow...So was last year's Super Bowl. I was at a party, and was absoultely disgusted to see that tacky exhibition of yankee doodle hoopla, replete with lots of commercials starring Britney Spears, and the roster of the dead being displayed at half time like a cheerleader's underwear. When the intentionally towerlike banners with the names of the victims came collapsing down at the end, there was a collective gasp of horror from many of the people at the party. Nobody could even say anything for a while. We were dumbfounded at such a shocking display of bad taste. I'm from New England, and have an insider's knowledge of just how LAME a team the patriots really are. We all knew they were going to win from the first few minutes of the game. They HAD to. The PATRIOTS must win...and a lot of people I know weren't fooled either. I was very sad and upset over what was, in my opinion, a revolting media orgy at the expense of our grieving nation. I will never forget the ghastly image of peppy pom pom girls smiling and leaping around, the crowd going wild as the ersatz towers fell. If that ain't glitz, I don't know what is. It certainly reeked of gloss over to me. And something else too.

Mermaid	31 Jul 2002
What's superbowl Darkelectric? Could you translate for all of us non-Americans? :confused: Anyway, why can't whoever's responsible call up the families and ask them what they'd like done with the site? Maybe it would help their grieving process to have some input into what is done. And surely they should have that right, it is their loved ones who are buried there. Although, in my heart of hearts (and some of you probably won't like hearing this) I think the best memorial the dead could have would be the US hunting down the actual perpetrators and bringing them to a fair international trial for Crimes against Humanity, instead of bombing Afghani civilians... two wrongs don't make a right. *Sigh*

Bella	01 Aug 2002
Mermaid: Superbowl is the yearly championship football game (American football, not soccer). A lot of people make a really huge deal about it, and it is televised with a lot of hype and glitz, with a big halftime show, etc. I agree with Darkelectic, it was tacky, and not a "tribute" at all. To be honest, I didn't like the "towers of light" they had at the WTC site for a month either--I found them very disturbing. I understand the idea, but it freaked me out.

The WTC site rebuilding? thread was originally posted on 30 Jul 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.