A Little Rant About Bodyweight

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 05 Aug 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	05 Aug 2002
This is a bit of a rant about body weight. When I was growing up, (Late eighties, early nineties...) it was 'cool' and 'in' to be slim and thin. During the klate nineties, we saw fashion models looking like skeletons. Due to this, many larger people spoke out against the efforts of people, maily women, to try and stay slim. I applaud those women who dd so, esp. cuz of the eating disorders which can be a bi-rpoduct of obssessive slimming. However, I am getting a bit tired now of people turning around to m and accusing me of being a slave to fashion, calling me an'anorexic pencil', and saying I am too thin for m own good. I eat more than most people I know. have never beenon a diet, nor have I ever tried slimming. I have remained the same weight, 7 and a half stone, for the past 3 years. I have a tiny waist-line. But I cannot help this. NO matter what I eat, no matter how I eat, I cannot put weight on. And here I have women who think they know best, declaring that any woman under a size 12 is not normal (A Marks and Spencer advert on TV actually espouse this idea, much to my disgust), and telling me I should be ashamed of myself. On one hand I do not think that any woman who diets to the point of making herself sickeningly slim is going the right way, but I also do not think that just cuz you're thin means you're anorexic or a slave to fashion. It just makes me angry! Grrrrrrrrr Kiama

divinerguy	05 Aug 2002
Kiama, I understand how you feel. On the contrary side of the plate, as a man of "substance," I find myself the victim of people's prejudices about my abilities. I have been what insurance companies call "overweight" every day of my life. I am a very competent lawyer, I'm well spoken, and I interview well. I'm not a a bad looking man, otherwise, and I consider myself a kind and gentle soul. However, the good attorney jobs seem to always go to the thin and attractive lawyers of this world. I take great pride in working them under the table, and even greater pride in presenting my clients with settlement checks. Is it wrong to allow this chip on my shoulder to motivate me? I'll leave the answer to that question to others, because it won't make a difference in how I run my life. All I know is that it feels good to alter their perceptions by showing them that all overweight people aren't lazy, incompetent slobs. Kiama, I know that you didn't say or imply anything against overweight people. I just wanted to explain that we sometimes experience issues about body image also.

RedWood	05 Aug 2002
With people..it seems it is one extreme to the other!! This world needs balance!

midnightmerry	05 Aug 2002
How about this- I've been on both sides of the fence. 4 1/2 years ago I was so petite that my husbands's nickname for me was "tiny person". At one point in my life I was a size O! People asked me all the time if I 'worked out' and I was known for my very flat stomach & great ab muscles. Then a series of miscarriages and a diseased thyroid set in, along with some serious disgestion problems and asthma!! I gained 60 pounds in about a little over a year and at one point ballooned to size 18. It was a very interesting experience because I got to see how life is as a heavier person. There is a definite difference in the way people relate to you. Now I've lost 20 lbs. and I am still struggling to lose as much as I can. I look more 'normal' now and weight is not so much an issue, but I'm glad I've had this experience because I can sympathize a lot more with folks who have weight problems. My husband is also a diabetic now but when he was younger, he was a body builder. Now he struggles with his weight, too. He was really big when I met him (before I got ill and I was still 'tiny') and it didn't make a da** bit of difference to me. When we married, I was size 5 and he was XX2L. Thank goodness he understands about metabolic disorders & health issues because my weight has never been a problem for him (yay!) :)

jade	06 Aug 2002
i'm fortunate too to have a wonderful loving hubby that doesn't care if i'm size 5 or size 25 makes no difference to him.......he only cares about my inner beauty. i know how you feel kiama. i think that everyone, no matter what weight they are get judged by their weight. you are either too thin, too fat or too perfect. aargghh, jade

Red raven	06 Aug 2002
you are the way you are. Don't worry about them Kiama. just be the way you are, and if that happens to be skinny, so what? I'm left handed and there are still a lot of people out there who will tell you that isn't normal either. I believe these people coulden't find their collective arse if you drew them a map. Yes, society does have a problem with body-weigh stereotypes. Fat people are seen as lazy, skinny women are usually associated with eating disorders, muscular men are stupid, etc. (None of that was meant to offend anyone, just listing some common stereotype examples.) If you really look at it, there isn't ANY 'right' way to look. In the same vein, there isn't any 'wrong' way to look, either.

midnightmerry	06 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama This is a bit of a rant about body weight. and saying I am too thin for m own good. I eat more than most people I know. have never beenon a diet, nor have I ever tried slimming. And here I have women who think they know best, declaring that any woman under a size 12 is not normal (A Marks and Spencer advert on TV actually espouse this idea, much to my disgust), and telling me I should be ashamed of myself. It just makes me angry! Grrrrrrrrr Kiama Well, as you can tell by my first post that I don't place much importance on body size. Kiama, these folks that say these things in adverts are just making a play on people's insecurities. It's disgusting.

wavebreaker	06 Aug 2002
I completely understand your rant, Kiama, it annoys me how a lot of people today are finding appearance the most important thing. And not just that, but also the fact that you're considered "stupid" and "lazy" if you don't do anything about it: if you're too fat you should diet and work out, if you're too small you should eat more, if you're nose is too big you should have it "fixed", etc. And if you're still too fat, too small, or whatever, it's you're own fault, so not only are you made to feel ugly, but you're made to feel guilty as well. I first started dieting when I was about 14 years old. I wasn't fat at all at that age, but everybody was dieting, and nobody told me I didn't need to, instead they encouraged me... So I kept on dieting over the years, and it had the completely opposite effect: I started gaining weight. And this effected my self-esteem in a big way: not only was I fat, but I was too stupid to do anything about it. I'm trying to leave all that behind now: no more dieting, no more exercising "because I have to", and I simply ignore people who are so shallow that they will only accept me for how I look. It's not easy, but I'm getting there, slowly but surely. I hope you can do this too, Kiama: just ignore the people who judge you by your appearance. It's their problem, not yours. They're the ones who are missing out on getting to know a wonderful person: you!!! (((((kiama)))))

VGimlet	06 Aug 2002
There are always rude people who feel it is their mission to comment on the looks of others. Usually, IMO, they tend to be very insecure themselves, or insensitive jerks I wouldn't want to know anyway. Or relatives, but that's a whole different vat of worms. I have been on both sides of the fence - from very thin, so thin people accused me of being anorexic to very, very heavy. I could go on for days about the difference in treatment by *some* people, (and there are positives and negatives to both, all other issues aside) but I won't LOL. I agree with the others who've said - it's disgusting. But there is always someone who is going to think you look too (insert any word here). Phhhht to them, I say! :P

Jenny-Li	06 Aug 2002
Kiama: I have to second Tarotlady - the problem is that what started out as a protest against unhealthy fashion ideals, very quickly turned back into an issue about appearance! It's like people (many of them/us) have so low self-esteem these days, most certainly due to all these extreme ideals that roll over us time after time after time, that they use anything to make a point for themselves, no matter at whose cost it is. If only people could just screw the appearance thing, and just realize that health and balance in body, mind and spirit is the ONLY thing that matters...! My theory is that people are aware only of the first of those human levels, the BODY. The body is EVERYTHING these days, and maybe if you stretch it you can make people see the mind/self esteem/emotions as part of the issue too, but start talking about the spiritual self with someone who isn't into it already they will just take one scornful look at you and go *hmpfff!* very loudly... And yet I think that's where a lot of the solutions are.... But that's just me! Divinerguy: I have heard people reason like overweight people are less competent and skilled than others, and I find it to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. So go get'em, for whatever reason, screw the chip on your shoulder, just make your statement! Light and love, Jenny PS: Do they call Perry Mason a lazy, incompetent slob too?? :D;):D I used to love that show, it totally made me want to become a lawyer...!

jema	06 Aug 2002
i am a fat person and while not trying to make light of the abuse some thin persons go through i do believe that i would rather be thin as a pencil then this size. people are mean and sure they are mean to skinny people too. but i think that as a fat person one is risking a lot more. like work and proper health care. there is a bias in our society still that fat is bad and thin is good so when two people apply for a desk job - guess who will get it? if i go to the doctor i might not get the treatment i need simply because the doctor only sees my overweight. and in rare cases he might have such an aversion aginst fat that he won't touch me and therefore might miss some pretty serious things. (my mother had a tumor and the doctor actually didn't want to touch her breast and she had to wait several weeks to get an x-ray) by the way kiama - a woman telling you that you are not normal is just envying you. pay no heed to her. you know more then most people i guess, just how difficult, if not flat out impossible, it can be to try and change your body weight. i so whish the world were different. that both fat and thin and "normal" people were considered to be beautiful and worthy of medical attention and a job and of love. i grew up hearing i was fat. i was 160 cm tall and weighed about 54 kilos. but in my mind i was FAT! and pretty soon my body began to add the kilos. you know, i bet there is not one single woman or man in this world that is not fat in the eyes of someone else. i have read on the internet about people thinking calista flockhart is overweight.

Diana	06 Aug 2002
Some people have no brains. None at all. Rattle their heads and you'll hear the peanuts banging against each other. Then there are those that have some brains, but they are so lacking in self-esteem that they compensate by finding fault in everyone else. Then there are others who are so imbued by their narcissic image of themselves, that they criticise everyone who doesn't look like them. But they cannot escape their karma. Ever. And people who are prejudiced against fat/thin, tall/short, are almost always racists as well. They will deny this of course by saying "oh no, one of my best friends is white/black", or "I have lots of Jewish/Muslim/Christian friends". But I swear to god, these people are racists. I know it. I grew up surrounded by racists - they were a part of my life 24 hours a day for 17 years and 4 months and 8 days.

Kiama	06 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by divinerguy Kiama, I know that you didn't say or imply anything against overweight people. I just wanted to explain that we sometimes experience issues about body image also. Hi DivinerGuy! Thanks for being understanding! In my post I didn't acknowledge the issues faced by larger people: Sorry. I was just trying to write down all my thoughts at once. Aswell as being annoyed at being judged as anorexix cuz I'm thin, I am annoyed at the people who discriminate against larger people. Like you said, thinner people seem to get the better jobs. My boyfriend is overweight. Not by much, but he is, and it saddened me the other day when my MOTHER, who is usually a very senstive soul, actually commented quite nastily on his belly. It really upset him, and me too. My boyfriend is really healthy, and walks/runs everywher he needs to go. He works out, but not too stringently, but still he can't lose thos few lbs he has put on since he was immobilised by a car accident last November. I love him for who he is inside... I do not judge him by his body, and even if I did he's not a bad looking guy. (Plus, there's that little bit extra of him for me to hug! :D) It is just such a shame that the people who began the viruous battle against stupid slimming programmes ad skeletal models have been crushed by those who have taken it to the xtreme, branding anybody thin as anorexic, or at the other end, branding all those larger people as ugly, lazy, unhealthy. I know some people who are very large, but they would look silly as anything smaller! Kiama

midnightmerry	06 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama He works out, but not too stringently, but still he can't lose thos few lbs he has put on since he was immobilised by a car accident last November. I love him for who he is inside... I do not judge him by his body, and even if I did he's not a bad looking guy. (Plus, there's that little bit extra of him for me to hug! :D) I know some people who are very large, but they would look silly as anything smaller! Kiama You go, Kiama! Our society is so plastic sometimes that it is scary. I know that people can be extremely shallow about body image and they are egged on by mass media which sets an impossible standard for most people. I do believe that thin people are on the receivng end of a lot of busybody-ness, just as heavier people are. About people who are large who would look silly as any other size, you reminded me of my grandmother. She was diabetic and had always been overweight, but one time she went on a radical diet and lost I don't know how many pounds. She looked unreal!! - not like our beloved MawMaw at all! I was young at the time and frankly, it frightened me to see the change. She was someone who just looked better when she weighed more.

Laurel	06 Aug 2002
I'm also a fat person and been discriminated against and verbally abused countless times for it. I can appreciate how much it hurts to have people attempt to shame and criticize your body image. I've recently started losing weight and keeping it off and it feels so good! Part of that feeling good comes from other people tell me I look better. I just read that the #1 thing all people fear is rejection and the #1 thing all people need is acceptance and I believe that, heart and soul. But we live in a very rejection-prone culture. Too fat! Too thin! Too much boob. Too flat. Too pale, too dark... I'm convinced its all part of a dangerous "melting pot" mentality where diversity is being completely destroyed in order to create a singular people who look and act and think the same. Time to revolt! Laurel

Red raven	06 Aug 2002
their will be backlash of some sort eventually. Whereas thin and tanned is 'desireable' now, a couple of hundre years ago if you were a big woman with a pale complexion you were sexy. Wonder when that switch happened. I was kinda chunky as a little kid and I used to catch all kinds of hell for it from the other kids. It used to wreck me. after a few years, I decided I sure as hell wasn't ever going to be able to please anybody else, so I might as well make myself happy. Screw them.

DarkElectric	06 Aug 2002
[quote]Originally posted by Red raven [b]their will be backlash of some sort eventually. Whereas thin and tanned is 'desireable' now, a couple of hundre years ago if you were a big woman with a pale complexion you were sexy. Wonder when that switch happened. It's switched back, at least around here. I'm a big woman with a pale complexion, and ya know, I'm sexy and beautiful as hell! And so are you, kiama, because you're you, and that's what's important. Everyone's a critic, ya know? So who are they anyway? That's what M.Y.O.B is for (Mind Your Own Business!) Superficiality has become a religion, and it sucks. It is the result of the marketing cult encouraging elitism based on physical appearance. IF they control the definition of beauty, what else do they control, eh? Think about it. Everybody here who has had to endure the mean spirited crap hurled about knows what I mean. Too big, too small...M.Y.O.B! I have to lose 40 lbs on physician's advice. And I find, that as I lose weight, people, especially men, treat me differently. Good. It just means I know who NOT to date, because these same guys wouldn't consider going out with me before.(I know this, because some of them are dudes I have been hanging with for years...) What do they think, that losing weight has miraculously turned me into someone else? kiama, try not to listen to these people who tell you this nonsense. It hurts, I know, but see these 'well meaning people' as busybodies, and just BE YOURSELF! Cuz you is a great thing to be:) Love ya, buddy! :P Dark (P.S, I'm looking for a big, chubby, cuddly guy with a lot of soul, who loves good food, music, and ME! I wonder if DG has a twin brother?)

Kyrie Blue	06 Aug 2002
Ya know...if a person doesn't like you because you are too thin or fat, they are probably not worth knowing anyway. I think in this day and age, things are a bit more difficult for large people. The name calling and implication that you cannot stop eating and so on and so forth is probably much more widespread than it is for thin people...though I could be wrong. But just take a look at movies. Of course I realize that it is difficult on thin people as well, but like I said...it seems to be much more widespread a prejudice against overweight people. Another thing that I find surprising is that a size 14 is considered oversized, as a large frame person,....if I went down to a 12, I'd look way to thin. I just think that when society sees a size 14 woman as fat, its a problem.

Mermaid	07 Aug 2002
But... surely we have to differentiate against discrimination on the basis of appearance (= bad) and discrimination on the basis of health (=sensible)? I'm just dreading the day when everything is so PC that doctors can't tell you to lose (or gain) weight for your health because it's 'discrimination'. On the same line, what thoughts do you guys have about this PC 'reverse discrimination'? For example, over here Maori students can get into Law school with much lower marks than other students as they're 'disadvantaged' by the system. And women who want to get into the police force don't need to do nearly as many push-ups and pull-ups as the male police candidates do to get in. Personally, if I want to see a lawyer I want a GOOD one - I don't care if they're brown, white or purple, as long as they're good. And if I want a cop, I want one that's strong enough to do the job - I don't want 'good representation of female police members' at the expense of cops being able to do their jobs! What do you folks think? (Or should I start a seperate thread :P)

wavebreaker	07 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Mermaid But... surely we have to differentiate against discrimination on the basis of appearance (= bad) and discrimination on the basis of health (=sensible)? I'm just dreading the day when everything is so PC that doctors can't tell you to lose (or gain) weight for your health because it's 'discrimination'. That's not what is meant here (at least not what I meant ;) ). Of course, if being overweight is a health risk for you, a doctor has every right to tell you you should try and lose weight, in fact, that's his/her duty. But sometimes the fact that you're being overweight is used against you in very unreasonable ways. Last year, I bought a house and applied for a mortgage. On the application form, I had to fill in some medical details, among them my height and weight. The bank decided that my weight was "unhealthy" for my height (I have no idea how they decide that, they probably have some tables to look it up...). So I had to have a medical first before they would approve my application, to see if I was healthy enough to live long enough to pay off my mortgage. I found that very humiliating. There are a lot of people who have a healthy height and weight ratio, but they smoke like chimneys, drink alcohol every day, are very unsafe drivers and have unsafe sex. But they don't have to have a medical for a mortgage, because they are not overweight... Sorry for ranting, this still gets me angry... Luckily, it all ended well: I was "approved" and got the mortgage without having to pay extra. Probably thanks to the sensible doctor that did the medical (I chose the doctor I always went to for my scuba diving medicals; if I was fit enough to teach diving classes, surely I was fit enough for a mortgage!!! ;) ).

The A Little Rant About Bodyweight thread was originally posted on 05 Aug 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.