About being honest

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 20 Aug 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

wavebreaker	20 Aug 2002
Are you always honest? Say, a friend of yours has just come back from the hairdresser's and is really enthusiastic about her new haircut. However, you think it looks awful on her. What do you do? Do you tell her it looks awful? Or are you diplomatic about it and say "it's not my style" or something like that? Or do you lie and tell her she looks great? And if you do, do you consider that a lie or just being polite? Or say, you know your friend's partner is cheating on him/her. Do you tell your friend? Or do you only give your friend hints about it so s/he will find out? Or do you think it's none of your business and you don't say anything? And what if your friend suspects something and asks you whether you know about it, do you tell the truth or not?

catlin	20 Aug 2002
It really depends on the situation (and the mood I am in). Ok, I hate lying (even for reasons of politeness) and you can usually tell from my face what I am thinking so even the "it's not my style" sounds sometimes wrong when I say it.

the hermit	20 Aug 2002
It's an interesting dilema... I'm much more likely to not tell the whole truth in the "hair" instance, but even then, I would find it difficult to lie. I'd do my best to be polite and the friend would probably figure out that I wasn't happy. I'm too easy to read. In the case of the friend and cheating, I wouldn't necessarily go blurt out that I knew something was up, but at the same time the friend would probably know that something was going on because as I mentioned above, I'm too easy to read. If they asked me outright, I'd feel compelled to tell them the truth. The bottom line for me would be the asking. I want my friends to be forthright and truthful when I ask their opinions and I try to do the same for them. The problem often arises when some one asks for your opinion or help when what they really want is for you to agree with their own already formed opinion. Like any other time, one must always be careful when you ask for something, especially an opinion. If you ask, you must be ready to accept the answer, whether you agree or not.

Marion	20 Aug 2002
With the haircut, if you blurt out that you don't like it, what can she do about it? Chances are she thinks it looks bad and is hoping no one else will notice until it grows out again. And it will make her feel uncomfortable and maybe even bad about her appearance if you say the words. So, with nothing to be gained (by her), I would say nothing. That is not 'politeness', just being supportive. The cheating SO. Now that is escalating the ethical framework! It would depend on so many things, your relationship with her, how she feels about the SO, who else may be talking to her and on and on. I would say, go in gently and try and find out what you can at each step before proceeding. I don't mean just more facts, but how she feels about the facts. Your goal is for her to survive, but not devastated by it all.

Kiama	20 Aug 2002
I love discussions like this! Thanks Tarotlady! It all dpends how faryou tae 'the whole tuth and othing but the truth'... It differs so much from person to person. For the haircut, I would say nicely tha I am still getting used to it, and at the moment, am alittle unsure that it s as nice as the last one. That way, I am telling the truth, butin a manner which the recipient will feel happy about. For the cheating partner... I think my main concern would be or my friend, and whether or not they wuld get hurt. Usually I would know what would hurt them most: Telling them the truth, or keeping it from them. For instance, I know a friend who would not mind her partner sleeping wth another wman, as long as shewasn't told. I have another friend who definitely would want to be told. So, I guess it depends on the friend, although if I was gonna say something, I'd make sure I had all the facts: I wouldn't want to present her with what I thought was the truth, when it could in fact be me just being suspicious. Kiama

wavebreaker	20 Aug 2002
For me, it depends on how well I know the person. If it's somebody I don't know very well, I probably won't even comment on their haircut, and if they ask me about it, I'll say something neutral just to be polite. If I knew about a cheating partner of somebody I don't know very well, I would stay out of it. They probably wouldn't want to hear something like that from me anyway. However, with friends, I will be honest. If I don't like their haircut, I will tell them so, because if I would have horrible haircut, I would rather want to hear that from a friend than from somebody else. I would try and be as positive as possible though, saying something like "It's ok, but maybe if you would comb it like this...". That may not sound very nice, but they are asking my opinion, they are my friend, so I'm not going to lie about it. And like hermit said: if you ask, you must be ready to accept the answer, otherwise don't ask... As for the cheating partner: I'm with Kiama here, it would depend on how I think my friend would want me to deal with it. But if I were in their shoes, I would probably be hurt a lot more if I found out that my friends had known about it all the time and not told me, than if they had told me right away. Personally, I prefer the truth, however hurtful it is, to being kept in the dark. And again: I'd much rather hear that truth from a friend than from someone else.

divinerguy	20 Aug 2002
I'll ask my friend if she likes her haircut. If she says, "Yes," then I tell her I like it too. I'm being intellectuallyhonest that way, because if my friend is happy with it, then so am I. All things being equal, friends don't have an affirmative duty to be the adultery police. Your friend will find out on their own. Unless the problem personally involves me, or may hurt innocent third parties, I think it best to allow the situation to take its course. I do not like to meddle in the lives others. Just because a person can do a thing, does not mean that a person should do that thing.

Diana	20 Aug 2002
I think being honest is not the equivalent of always telling the truth. Being honest is first and foremost being honest to yourself. If you tell your friend that her hairstyle is terrible, how will you feel about it afterwards? Will you be upset 'cos you hurt her? Or pleased that at least she will know in the future to change her hairdresser? It's the same with love triangles. How will you feel? I remember being in a situation like this - it was awful. Do I tell, don't I tell? Do I tell, don't I tell? On top of it, I had both women chatting to me about their problems with the guy, and I didn't know what to do. Then I mentioned my dilemma to a work colleague who told me that they knew of someone who attempted suicide when she heard her husband was cheating on her, and it was not the husband who was blamed, but the woman who revealed the affair. Now, this story may not be true, but it made me think. I realised I would, in this case, have felt worse by meddling than by not meddling. And that made me feel better. So I would say: First be honest to your own inner voice. Make sure your heart is as happy as possible with your decision. You can't live other people's lives for them.

Sorceress_Jade	20 Aug 2002
I'm very honest. Brutally honest even. I try to put things in a way that will be the least hurtful, but I often don't predect the reaction of the person. I'm a horrible liar for the most part, I can't even lie when I really need to usually. I can remember only one thing I've lied about in the last like... two months or so, and oddly enough it was where I was at for lunch, lol. I have a realy problem with lying because it really hinders learning and getting things done. It's like an uneeded delay on life. Personally, I'd rather deal with the truth, even if it cuts to the bone, simply because I'd know it. On the other side of that coin, I deal horribly with liars, and am incredibly gullible. I have trouble with teasing even because I simply expect that everyone is as honest as I am. I can't help it, it seems logical to be honest, illogical to lie, and I'm a creature of logic, heh.

Laurel	20 Aug 2002
I try to be constructively honest as opposed to saying what I think in ways that are actively hostile. Sometimes the best (and most truthful answer is) is "I have mixed feelings." Laurel

jade	20 Aug 2002
it's interesting that i just posted a new thread about a triple filter...........cause that is part of my answer here. i cherish honesty. i think it's very important, but sometimes something just isn't your business.........or by being honest it just ends up feeling gossipy (which i hate) i have a 'friend', right now, that has been cheating on her husband with her best friends husband for the last few years. it was very difficult seeing the four of them together knowing that there were two people being lied to and manipulated..............i left the friendship. i don't see her anymore. that way, i'm not medling, cause it isn't my place to say anything.......it's their life after all, their lessons.........but i couldn't stand by and watch it. it went against my values and beliefs. if i were asked, point blank by her hubby or the other wife if something was going on i couldn't lie.........so i removed myself from that possibility. is that wrong? i don't know. but it's the only alternative to this situation that felt okay to me. i lost a close friend...........but it was worth it to keep my own values intact. in light, jade

Poetlove	20 Aug 2002
I would really try to tell the truth, without hurting the person. Like telling my friend that I thought her hair was cute when, and that the style they have now is different. Cheating is such a hard issue. I was caught in the middle of a husband and wife cheating on each other..... Neither cheating with me, but the both told me about it. The husband cornered me one day, and that was the end. I think that tho cheating is wrong and the people doing the cheating should be honest with themselves and the other person. They should not look for someone else to tell the other one. If you are man / woman enough to have the affair, then you should be man / woman enough to admit it. Above all else, I try to go for truth!

amyel	20 Aug 2002
It depends. With regard to a hairstyle, I'd be diplomatic. What my friend wants is not really my "approval" or opinion, but to share something that she is enthusiastic about. So my personal opinion about it is not really what she is after. Now, if a friend's partner was having an affair and she/he asked me about it: - If I knew it to be fact, I'd find a way to gently tell them the truth - If I didn't know the fact, but suspected, I'd tell them - honestly - that I don't know But I wouldn't volunteer the info'. Every situation is different, and if I went and volunteered the info' and the partner already knew - I might be seen as a troublemaker or a gossip monger. If the partner didn't know, then it could really blow up in my face. So I would wait until asked and take it from there.

Jenny-Li	20 Aug 2002
I think it's SOO easy to go lightly on a question like this and think "oh honesty is such an important treat" - but when you get down to it, it's not that easy. I think (although I'm not sure I'm done thinking on this one...!) I'm somewhere along Diana's line here. That honesty is giving an answer I can live with and feel good about giving. Which will mean I am as truthful as possible, but not at the expense of hurting someone else at no gain... If the hurt caused by the truth is overweighed by the good that comes from knowing this truth, then I will break it, as gently as I can to the person. But if the hurt will be graver than the gain of telling the truth, I see no point in it. As for the cheating thing, for me there is nothing quite as low as betraying the love and trust of an other person like cheating (sorry, I see no extenuating circumstances there...), and I would try to be honest about it. It would hurt, and there is a strong possibility that this friend would turn her back on me (at least initially), but I would do it. What awful feeling to one day discover you were the last to find out that you've been cheated on, that other people have known this about you and just kept it to themselves, let you live on a lie... No I would definitely try to be honest there, otherwise I would not feel honest to myself, to what I believe in. On the other hand: what if it is your friend who IS cheating - would you still be honest to her husband then? I don't know. I just pray I never have to make that judgement... Jenny :) *still wondering about my own answers...!*

Rain	21 Aug 2002
I feel that it is okay to tell a little white lie, such as your haircut looks great on you. However, when feelings are involved, and they usually are in relationships, I think it is best to let your friend know she is being taken advantage of. Put it this way: Would you like to be lied to after a terrible haircut? Would like your friends to know about your partner cheating and not tell you? Just put your self in their shoes. Then do what you want done to you. Hope this helps Blessings, Rain

Diana	21 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Rain Just put your self in their shoes. Then do what you want done to you. Hard to put oneself in other shoes. Everyone's needs are different, and our perceptions of their shoes are coloured by our own experiences, needs, lacks, wants. I don't think there's a Yes/No answer to this kind of question about honesty. A synonym for honesty is Justice. Perhaps the Justice card in the Tarot can give us some clues here.

Jenny-Li	21 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Hard to put oneself in other shoes. Everyone's needs are different, and our perceptions of their shoes are coloured by our own experiences, needs, lacks, wants. Absolutely, but on the other hand our own reference is the only thing we have, isn't it? What else is there to judge from? I like your parallell to Justice though, will have to ponder that one for a while...! Light and love, Jenny :)

wavebreaker	21 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana I don't think there's a Yes/No answer to this kind of question about honesty. I agree, there are so many "variables" to consider: the situation itself, the people involved and, most of all, your own intentions. I'm a terrible liar myself though, and I wonder what would be more hurtful to a friend if they would ask me about whether I knew about their cheating partner: me saying I don't know anything about it and very obviously lying, or me telling the truth. Let's just hope I'll never have to answer a question like that.

moonman	21 Aug 2002
Hi I agree with Jenny-Li and quite a few others on this one even though I must admit I didn't read all the threads, but I will do later! For me I think I have a big problem with honesty ie: I could lie to get a job knowing that I can do the job well. I think I expect people around me to tell the truth and when they don't I feel let down. It would be good of them to say no if they can't do something or what ever, but just to lie knowing that they have no intention of acting on they they have just said really hacks me off. Now I don't expect too much from others but I am still honest with people. I had to cut off from a few of my friends and family, YES I know it all seems a tad drastic but my needs wasn't been met, as I tend to put in alot more than others. I just think I needed a new circle of friends instead of takers. Most of the time it has not worked out for me being honest but I will continue to be honest and keep others at a distance. I stongly feel the need to open, at least others have the choice to move on I am not right for them. That's my 2 pence worth Seb

fairyhedgehog	21 Aug 2002
I think that there is a difference between being honest and being open. I have the right to keep my thoughts and feelings private, which means not always choosing to be open. But I don't like the idea of deliberately deceiving people, so I aim to be honest. So I'd tend to tell the best truth I could about the haircut, but only if asked. Eg, 'What do you think of my haircut?' might elicit a 'wow, it's much shorter isn't it, are you pleased with it?' rather than a 'it's great' if I don't like it. I don't want to lie but after all what I see as a disaster might not seem that way to my friend, and telling her 'at the moment I hate it but I expect I'll get used to it' wouldn't achieve anything useful. Cheating friends would be much harder to deal with. I'm not the adultery police so I don't see myself as having a general duty to point out when someone is cheating. Whether it would be helpful to tell on the cheating partner would probably depend on the circumstances and I hope not to have to face this one. I'm not sure what I'd do if asked a direct question about adultery. I might tell the truth. I might refuse to answer by saying 'Well, you really ought to ask [name of cheater] about that, rather than me'. I hope I wouldn't lie or deliberately create a false impression. I do value the right to silence, though. Love and light, FH

The About being honest thread was originally posted on 20 Aug 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.