Job Seeker's Allowance, and Voluntary Work

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Aug 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	06 Aug 2002
Before I begin, I'll explain what St John Ambulance is about for all you non-Brits. It's basically a voluntary (Re-read that word) organisation, who's members provide First Aid, Care, and Ambulance cover at events where such assistance may be needed. These events range from the quiet injury-less ones such as garden parties and theatre shows, to the hectic ones such as international hockey tournemants where all the players on every single team are blind drunk by the time they get to play their first game. (This one's a funny one: I've been to it 3 years in a row, and most of the injuries are drink-related. One guy last year had to have a very embarrassing wound taped up- The wound was on his bum. He he... Although there was one which wasn't as nice... A kid aged 17 was rushed to hospital to have his stomach pumped after downing a litre of 'Purple Nasty', this tournament's fave drink: A mixture of vodka, cider, and blackcurrent...) Anyway, these members are not paid for their time or labours, and they are as highly qulaified as any paramedic. For instance, my Dad is qualified to crew and drive an ambulance, administer Defib., oxygen and entonox, First Aid, Nursing care, etc... The only thing he can't do which a paramedic can is give any injections. My whole family is in St John's, and I have been in it since I was 8 (I got my family into it in the first place!) It is a hobby we all enjoy and do together, and my Dad is particularly committed, as he is the Duty Co-ordinator of our division: He orgainises First Aid cover for all the events. People with an event get in contact with him, and he organises it all, making sure there are the appropriate number of First Aiders or Ambulance at that event. Sometime just our division covers up to 40-50 such events in one month, esp. in the Summer when it is common to be covering more than one even a day. All our members do this out of the kindness of their own hearts. My Dad is unemployed, and has been for some months now. He is old, over 60, so, despite all his qualifications and experience, it is difficult for him to find work. He has been recieving Job Seeker's Allowance money since he was made redundant through no fault of his own (Company sold out), and has actively been searching for work since the first day he knew he had lost his job. We have all the rejection letters as proof. But this morning, when he went to the Job Centre to get his benefit money and to look to see f there were any more job vacancies, the lady who deals with him usually asked him how many hours a week he did for St John's. Dad asked why. And, apparantly, according to the Employement Agency, Dad can actually LOSE his benefits because he does UNPAID voluntary work for St John's. This is because, according to them, all the time he spends covering events, he is not 'actively seeking work'. They have told him to go home and write out a comprehensive list of where he was, when, and for how long, with reference to St John's. Then, they said that when he did eventually get a paid job, he will have to GIVE UP doing voluntary work for St John's altogether. I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO angry. They are kicking him in the a*se just cuz he is being a good and moral citizen. He has never done anything wrong in his life, and he is the most dedicated and committed men I have ever known. St John's does take a lot of his time up, but even when he had a job he was doing both fine. He would cover events during the weekend or in the evenings. It is his number one hobby: He gets qualifications, he gets the enjoyment of meeting other members and the social events that follow that, and he seriously enjoys helping people out when they are injured. He is such a kind and caring man. But now he is being told that because of all his dedication to his HOBBY, he cannot recieve the money he so needs in order to look after his wife, two kids, and daughter who is off to Uni. He has a heavy mortgage to pay, and hefty bills, and without that money, the family is, to put it frankly, stuffed. I don't see how the Employment Agency can punish my Dad for VOLUNTARY UNPAID hours given in the name of good-feeling and love. They do not punish people for spending a whole day with their family down the beach, when they could be 'actively seeking work' during that tie, do they? So why punish my Dad for St John's??!?!! In the UK we are having a little problems with illegal immigrants. I'm not sure what my take on this issue is, but I do know for sure that they get it easier than my Father does. All he really needs to do is get into this country illegally, claim asylum, and sit around doing nothing whilst the government hands him out benefit upon benefit. These illegal immigrants have their houses paid for, they get job seeker's allowance no matter hwo long they are not 'actively seeking work' for. They get free health care, eye tests, everything... My family? NOTHING. Even though we do everything right, and do not cheat the system. Maybe we should start lying to the government: It seems that the only way to get any proper benefits is to do this. I went up to my bedroom and started crying after my Dad told me an Mum what happened at the job centre. It just isn't fair. I went through lots of different thoughts, asking the Gods why Dad was being punished in this way, and if he was, it wasn't fair cuz the rest of the family are being punished too. I asked why the Gods would let this happen: It's their world after all. But th eonly reply I got was that this world is no longer the Gods', but man's, and at the moment, what man says goes... I have just become an adult, but I am very sad. I do not want to have to live in a country where the bad are rewarded with material comfort, and teh good are punished over and over again for... Well... For loving our fellow man. This country preaches 'Do Unto Others' and 'Love Thy Neighbour', in many different forms, but when such a lesson is actually acted upon, it is looked at with disgust, and people say you are a bad person. You are told you must not do such a dirty thing, and you should carry on being like 'normal' people. If that is normality, then I want no part of it whatsoever, and I know that I do not want to be an adult in a world like this. Kiama

Jenny-Li	06 Aug 2002
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Kiama & familly))))))))))))))))))))))))))) I don't know what to say, it's so... plain stupid. That's what happens when you have a system that prevents people from thinking for themselves, and after a while they don't even know HOW to think for themselves... No wonder the world just sinks deeper and deeper into selfishness and shortsightedness, everybody thinking "what's in it for me" instead of thinking "what can I do to help the world" - when the few who do just that get punished for doing so. I send you huge hugs and loads of love and light. Jenny

catlin	06 Aug 2002
((((((((((((((((Kiama)))))))))))))))))) Hi Kiama, I know this won't comfort you but it is pretty the same in Germany. The job centre had paid for me a job qualification to become a secretary but as it is very hard to find a job here, I wanted to move to another city in another "Bundesland" with better job prospects but the job centre didn't want to help me with the move (although they are supposed to do so). During the job qualification they had left me with lesser money to pay for living and school stuff than any immigrant gets here. I really get mad when I see all the lazy Turks hanging around all day long in bars with the taxes I pay now! Life is sometimes pretty unfair and I can fully understand why you feel so bitter now.

Liliana	06 Aug 2002
Oh its definately the same, if not worse, in America. I guess I can minorly see their point while hes supposed to be looking for work, but telling him he has to quit once he gets a job has got to be the stupidest thing Ive ever heard. Ours says you have to be actively seeking work so many hours a week, but the problem is theres not even enough jobs here to apply for to meet the hour requirement. And for those who dont drive, its fairly impossible. Its all nuts. :THP

cricket	06 Aug 2002
*skaweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezhugs for Kiama and family* What a horrible thing to have happen, and so unfair! Maybe your government and ours here in the US have gotten together and created a conspiracy against the caring, giving people. Let your dad know that he needs to be careful. Here in the states your benefits can be taken away for volunteer work, not getting your required hours per week in on a job hunt, for looking too hard for a job (!), even for having a vehicle so you -can- go farther to find work. It may not be the same there. (Hopefully not.) If it is it might benefit all of you for him to sit down with the lady he usually sees and have her explain exactly what he can and cannot do to continue getting benefits.

WolfSpirit	06 Aug 2002
I believe they have the same kind of rules for job seekers everywhere :( Although I believe in the Netherlands unemployed of 60 or so don't have to apply for jobs so actively because there's not that much chance they'll find a job. I find it very strange the job agency said he has to quit voluntary work altogether if your dad finds a job. Surely that's not their business ? If it's anybody's, it could be the employer's, but only if it would interfere with his not being able to work overtime in busy times or something like that. At least that would seem logical to me...does not seem to be much logic in the rules though. I find the lady at the job centre very harsh...I know there are laws and rules but she seems to make it tough on your dad on purpose. **** I sympathize with you and your family ****

Mermaid	06 Aug 2002
Yeah, it is the same everywhere. Over here, students aren't allowed any kind of unemployment benefit over the three month summer break until they're 25 years old, unless both of their parents are among the poorest 30% in the country (no matter whether their parents give them money or let them live at home or even talk to them anymore, no matter if they have rent to pay and can't find work, and no matter that they're actually doing something with their time that is going to benefit society later on...) - simply because they're students. And as far as I'm aware the situation's nearly as bad here for non-students. ((((Kiama)))) Have you thought about writing to your local MP/mayor and telling them what's going on? Sometimes if you embarrass people in authority enough they'll get off their asses and do something for you... Or if they won't, write to the papers so everyone else knows, I'm sure lots of the public will suport you once they know their ambulance service is under threat! And, if all else fails, try to get your Dad to convince the lady that what he's doing is actually 'job training', and that he's learning valuable work-related skills that will help him get a job ... get his ambulance boss to write a reference confirming that ... because if they believe that then they might be more suportive of him doing it. Love

jade	06 Aug 2002
kiama, i suggest that 1/ you get the papers involved in your plight 2/ your dad doesn't share ALL of his volunteer hours with them. this sucks, jade

Diana	07 Aug 2002
Kiama: in cases like this, I always advise people to insist on an urgent appointment with the people on top. Some civil servants (not all) tend to abuse their positions. Their positions give them power over other people, and they use their power to abuse. Get an appointment with the head of the place, and if necessary the head of the head. I suspect that your Dad may win in this case. Contacting a journalist would be an excellent idea when other channels have been exhausted. Not a letter to an editor - a real article. However, mixing up immigration problems and refugee bashing(economic or other), with your dad's personal problems sounds to me like echoes of stamping boots, glass smashing and lit torches. The echoes may slight, and faint, but they are definitely there. Not so far away actually - the French elections are a good reminder of this. :)

Kiama	07 Aug 2002
Thanks for all your great advice and kind words guys! Luckily, through Dad's St John's work, he has a quite large network of contacts with the local journalists... He he... }) He's got one of the best journalists around on the case now, and there was talk of bringing that journalist to Dad's next meeting with the Job Centre Lady... Somebody in this thread raised a query about the Job Cenre saying Dad should give up St John's when he gets a job. According to them, this is because they fear my Dad will put St John's above his job. They totally disreard the fact that Dad has been in ST John's for the last 4 years, all the while successfully managing to balance both that and his jobs. Anyway, we, as a family, are all pulling together to see my Dad get throuh this. I still can't get my head round the fact that he is such a nice bloke, and such a moral person, yet he still gets treated this way... I think I'll try and find him a nice present today to cheer him up a bit... *Lord of The Rings of Video!!!!! :D* Kiama

jade	07 Aug 2002
kiama, what a blessing it would be to have you as a daughter. :D love jade

Mermaid	07 Aug 2002
Good luck Kiama, your family will be in my thoughts - let us know how everything goes.

suzyspellbound	08 Aug 2002
it does seem really unfair and it must be frustrating for you and i feel similarly in the way you do towards foreign imigants! but i try to think of the big picture and see it from their perpsective they must of had it rough to be so scared in their home country to have to take such drastic messures and put their lives at risk! Just think of the war, and all the jewish people and how they were treated i can't imagine turning any away! Those poeple have suffered alot and desserve to take it easy for a while, to adjust to the culture etc! Im just glad that here we have benefits and we don't have to resort to clinging to the bottom of a train to esscape and make money to feed my family! Time ago probably last century even there would have been no benefit sceams and I think of the workhouses where children were forced to go for no money and little food. It may not be perfect and I no people hate the government and the system and parliament- thank god i haven't got the job of saying who gets money and how much! I am probably naive and ignorant so forgive me if i have offended anyone its just the way i see things!

Diana	08 Aug 2002
suzy: I come from a long line of "foreign immigrants", although many many years ago, they were just called "immigrants" On every tree, you will find good fruit and bad fruit. When people lump them all together, I just ask my ancestors to forgive them, for they know not what they do.

Kiama	08 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana suzy: I come from a long line of "foreign immigrants", although many many years ago, they were just called "immigrants" On every tree, you will find good fruit and bad fruit. When people lump them all together, I just ask my ancestors to forgive them, for they know not what they do. I had to re-read this a few times, because I am feeling very touchy after going through a very horrible experience today... All I will say is that I am sorry I offended you with what I said about foreign immigrants, but what I said was out of bitterness because as far as I can see, my Father is being kicked in the ass time and time again, having paid his taxes all his life, and done his duty for our country's army.... Then our country ignores his plight. I am very angry. And I do know what I do: I make a free statement, not actually aimed at foreign immigrants, but aimed a the country which ignored my Father after all his years of hard graft service for them. Kiama

Diana	08 Aug 2002
Kiama: your father is a wonderful man, and deserves a medal for what he has done. My thoughts and love are with him and with your whole family. Anger is justifiable. Just don't let it linger too long in your good heart.

suzyspellbound	09 Aug 2002
i didn't mean foreign imigrants i was just referring to what Kiama said about asylum seekers and i was trying to be more general about how we shoule be more open and willing to help them where ever they come from and what ever their reasons for leaving! I didn't want to pick on just asylum seekers because i know that other imigrants (foreign or other wise) that need considerarion. I didn't like the way Kiama referenced them in her post as it seems unrelated to just stab at asylum seekers but i can see her point about how financing of benefits appears unfairly distributed around hear! I meant i was agreeing with how she perseives some of them to be getting a free ride, but i wanted to point out that maybe they derserve our hospitality after what some of them have been through. Kiama knows about global economical inequality I am suprised she would make such a thoughtless statement unless she was very upset, which understandably she is!

Diana	09 Aug 2002
suzy: Kiama was angry and upset. When one is angry and upset, one often gets carried away. No-one can be on top of everything all the time! Hugs to everyone, hugs to Kiama, hugs to her Dad, hugs to the immigrants, and as my cat has just walked into the room, hugs to him as well! :D

Molly	09 Aug 2002
Dear Kiama, I wanted to send loving thoughts your way. I believe in my heart that this situation will work out for your dad and family, and I will tell you why in a moment. I was glad to see some practical steps being taken such as getting the media and the community involved... I had to say that I thought a lot about how frustrated you were and felt that you didn't want to be an adult in this kind of a world... A world where you see people who try to do right get punished and the people who don't try, or even worse do wrong, are rewarded. (FYI, this is a paraphrase of the topic... I am definitely NOT implying that immagrants are doing anything wrong... It just made me think of some situations you here about in the United States with the welfare - I have heard many stories about people who own their homes and have numerous children and who do not work and receive cash allowance from the government and food stamps because they lie on their records, meanwhile I can't afford health insurance for my kids and I don't get any help with it cuz we are just over the cutoff of making too much....) I think that is one of the hardest lessons you will face in adulthood: Inability to change things, being powerless - whether against the government, the workplace, an illness, a person, or just the whole universe. How we react when we are powerless will hugely affect our character and influence. Good men like your father will find a way to affect things even when they are NOT supposed to be able to - and thereby display that they had power all along, the best kind of power: the power of our own actions and choices. (A lot of adults bury their feelings of powerlessness in addictive behavior and escapism so they don't have face the things that hurt them or that they are afraid of. That's one choice.) This reminds of Job in the Bible... whatever your spiritual take on the story is, it has a significant message. Job had everything and he was a good person and in one day it is all taken from him: his children, his wealth, his home. He even loses his health and sits on the ground with boils. He is powerless to do anything in is situation... he only has two choices: curse God or accept his situation and keep his faith. His wife tells him to curse God and leaves him. He finally (after a lot of soul-searching) choices to keep his faith and his allegience to his God. God then heals him, blesses him, and gives him a better wife ;-) He still had power. Don't be afraid that you don't have power or that your father does not have any power. Good men and women have the most power.

wetsheep1	09 Aug 2002
Ahhhhh, the welfare system. I don't care where ya live, they all suck -- and exactly for the reasons enumerated above. What could have been a good idea, a leg up during difficult times, has been twisted and mutilated to the point where it's a trap few ever get out of. And though you may be powerless over present events, Kiama, you're not powerless in the long run. MP's, like our senators and congressmen over here in the States, are elected animals. Whether or not they get to keep their jobs is up to you guys -- one at a time, but every vote counts. And believe me, since welfare/public assistance has always been and will always be a sensitive voter issue, if someone brings it up it'll get discussion. Every time. I'm glad to hear you've got a reporter on your "beat" and I hope he can write an article that exposes the inexcusable contradiction this kind of policy presents. I'm only the second generation of my family to speak English in this country. All of my grandparents were immigrants. And the stories they told of their journey to this country were harrowing -- they left their homes, their countries to come here because they wanted not only a better opportunity for their own children but to stay alive in the first place. (This is what happens when one allies oneself with the wrong end of the political spectrum.) But we all worked hard; in some cases, we had crosses burned on our lawns, too, because we were different. None of us has ever had to rely on public assistance; and it wasn' a question of luck, it was a lot of hard times because we couldn't find exactly what we wanted to do but some of us took two menial jobs to make up for it. This has its own downfalls, but it was what was necessary at the time. On the other hand, we have a work ethic that just won't quit (no pun intended). Some of us have turned into great successes; some of us are still firmly towards the bottom of the economic scale. But all of us work, work, work. This is not to say all immigrants, or all welfare recipients, are like that. In the US, we have problems with the development of a subculture that subsists solely on the dole and has no interest in finding employment. I can remember as a kid, being in the grocery store, mom and I buying a pound of hamburger because that's what we could afford. The lady in front of us was wearing a full-length mink and buying lobster -- with food stamps. There was then, as is today, a huge black market in those things. The point is that politics has made its own bed and we all have to lie in it; by pandering to a specific segment of society, we end up with a public assistance system that has desecrated the original intent of, in our case, the New Deal. The idea that all people deserve a living has stultified into the idea that all people deserve money. And that twist has cost us all. I think we have a tendency to forget that it's our elected officials that are supposed to represent our interests in government; they're the ones who enact these policies. And when their addiction to power becomes so severe that they lose sight of their purpose and end up punishing the honest, it's time for them to go. Actually, time long past. I weary of politicians who are so baldfaced as to promote policies that target voters in only one subset of the population; and frankly, it's old enough news that even our minorities have decided these yutzes are out of touch with reality and refuse to support them. The culture of victimization is losing ground and many of our more liberal representatives are seriously, desperately worried about it. As far as I'm concerned, goody. Outstanding. It's the power of the free vote in action and I can't wait for them to go. When a government removes the intiative for people to succeed in and of their own efforts, it will become unable to support itself. That lesson has been tried and true. So as far as I'm concerned, I am all about heading that off at the pass; I've worked hard for what I have and I am not interested in supporting people who refuse to fend for themselves. I have lost patience with leeches. By the same token, if someone's been displaced by events not of their own making, I have absolutely no problem giving them a leg up during the rough spots. And if they've got the personal intestinal fortitude to give back to their community while they're in the middle of a personal crisis, man, they deserve all the support I can give them. But it's the few bad apples that spoil the bunch. If there was some way to effectively legislate the difference it'd be great; but I don't see a way to do that without getting entirely too close to legislating morality. OK, I'm getting off my soapbox now.... ;) But in all seriousness, Kiama, my prayers are with you and your family during this difficult time. Please be well. :) -- k

purplelady	09 Aug 2002
I start getting really bent out of shape when I hear people trashing welfare reciepients yet again and making them a scapegoat, the same way the immigrants in this discussion have been made a scapegoat. It's a personal peeve of mine because I Was a welfare reciepient in the past, and "the end of welfare as we know it " hurt me and my family a lot and caused quite a bit of stress among other things. I never have owned a mink coat nor any fur coat, or even a leather coat. I bought my winter coat at Kmart for $30. My kids got coats from the salvation army thrift store. The last time I ate Lobster was 31 years ago. The end of welfare hurt the poorest of the poor , in my opinion. And can you honestly say that the american economy is better off now? I find it a scapegoat where the poorest poor were picked on and everyone rallied around and shouted about Their tax money. If people are SO concerned about where their tax money goes, well..............do they really know where it goes? Do they CARE if it went to pay millions of dollars to high paid lawyers to find out every excruciatingly intimate detail of a certain presidents love life? OR....................do you care if politicians waste TONs on corporate welfare or gold toilet paper rolls OR......................ANYTHING but those evil evil single moms trying to make ends meet? (Trying to end rant here) Those same people who put down single welfare moms may just need some "help" someday in the future But maybe they are lucky enough not to because they have family, a mom , or a sister who they can live with or who would help them out or babysit so they can work but 'ya know what? Some people may not hava a family to help them. I just get REALLLL irritated when I hear the mink coat/ caddilac Stereotype of welfare moms that in my experience is so totally untrue , but perpetuated. President Bush has now declared that welfare reciepients need to "go to work right away" and NOT get any funding for schooling. After all, I'm sure that mom with 3 kids can support her family working at McDonald's . Why would she need any schooling? Gotta Love Bush. I'm very sorry about your dad and families plight Kiama. However, I doubt immigrants have a lot to do with it. And whoever it was on this thread who said that part of growing up is having things happen that they can't control , or accepting that they can't control things that they really really want to control is totally right. I'm still working with That one :D .

Molly	09 Aug 2002
Hi, Purple lady... I don't want to get into the middle of a *brawl* here, but I don't think wetsheep was trying to "perpetuate a sterotype" of mink-coat-wearing/lobster-eating welfare moms: This was a person that was actually in front of them at the store. I imagine seeing that made wetsheep feel somewhat bitter, understandably. I imagine if you saw the same thing, you would feel bitter as well. Especially if you were wearing your $30 coat and buying milk and peanut butter with your food stamps. I think the complaint was towards the system: I truly don't think anyone wants to put down the single welfare moms who have no family support and are doing their best. It is an imperfect system, most definitely; it does so often seem to reward the lazy and DISHONEST and make it difficult for the ones who try (such as single welfare moms who would like nothing better than to go to school to be able to make more money, but cannot)... and I believe this was the injustice wetsheep was describing -- although possibly with a different political slant than you ;-) And I myself have tried to receive government assistance, and have. And government NON-assistance as well ;-)... I dealt with rude people, pleasant people, miles of paperwork, misunderstandings... and I have had people tell me to scam about where I live and what I'm doing to get more help because "it's so easy and everyone does it".... and I DID NO SUCH THING!!!!! That is ONE reason why the people who need help don't get it!!!! and, now, I really don't know what my point is because I am tired and I have lost my train of thought. but that was my 2 cents. actually, since I ended so lamely, I'll only charge a penny. *G*

Kiama	11 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by purplelady I start getting really bent out of shape when I hear people trashing welfare reciepients yet again and making them a scapegoat, the same way the immigrants in this discussion have been made a scapegoat. There has been a rather big misunderstanding here, by which I have suddenly been'scapegoating' foreign immigrants. In my original posts, and posts that followe it, I only used illegal foreign immigrants as an example how our GOVERNMENT is wrong. As far as I'm concerned, the English government is spending far too much money on the things which the tax payers dn't wat, such a lush 5-star hotel-like prisons for murderers, and 4-week long cruises for the politicians. Tony Blair, ages ago before we elected him, and after we elected him, pomised us that his main focus would be 'Education, education, education', but I saw only change for the worse in education, epecially sinethe Univerity Grants thing was scrapped, leaving 18 year old students to either pay their own couple of grand towards tuition fees and living costs for University, or be left with massive debts after getting the 4-grand a year loan that I have had to take out. I am hopig to spend at oeast years at Uni. Let's add that up: 16 grand. Then, what if I want to do the PhD I have been looking forward to since the age of 10? That'sanother 3 year at 4-grand a year. I dont even wanna write down how much that's gonna cost. These are just a couple of examples of how think the government is spending in the wrong place. If only wed do what France did, then maybe we'd have a half-decenthealth service. Again, I never used immigrants as scapegoats, but as an example. Kiama

Emily	11 Aug 2002
this is slightly off topic, but I would like to know why asylum seekers keep coming here, why do they think the streets of the UK are paved with gold. Are other countries doing there bit for the asylum seekers because sooner or later this country is going to run out of space and money. Going back to Kiama's post about education, we have schools closing here, children being sent miles away from their homes, classes getting bigger and education getting worse. In my sons school we have fun days, and fund raisers to help buy text books and school equipment. I don't understand what is happening to our government. I dread to think what state this country is going to be in by the time my son leaves school.

Mermaid	12 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Emily this is slightly off topic, but I would like to know why asylum seekers keep coming here, why do they think the streets of the UK are paved with gold. Are other countries doing there bit for the asylum seekers because sooner or later this country is going to run out of space and money. Yes, other countries are helping refugees, Emily - though some more than others. According to the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, in 2001 the 9 main countries where refugees resettled were (in order): the USA, Canada, Australia, Norway, Sweden, NZ, Finland, the Netherlands and Denmark. (Reference: UNHCR homepage, refugees by numbers.) BTW, I don't think it's particually fair to say that asylum seekers are relocating because they think the roads are 'paved with gold'. Most asylum seekers (by definition) leave their own countries because they're being persecuted, not to get rich as your statement implies.

Diana	12 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Emily I would like to know why asylum seekers keep coming here, why do they think the streets of the UK are paved with gold. Emily: the asylum seekers leave their countries because their governments are a milllion times more rotten, corrupt, and incompetent than yours. And also because sometimes history, geography and economics have played very very bad tricks on them. And sometimes because their lives are in danger. I have worked in a Committee Against Torture. I can send you some reports if you like, but they make one's blood chill and make one want to vomit. Please do not confuse asylum seekers with immigrants seeking for an improved life-style, economically speaking. This is what the extreme-right fascist movements do, and it is very very dangerous. How about taking a little holiday in Bangladesh, or in Algeria, or in Afghanistan, or in Angola, and go and live with the people in their slums or their war-zones. You'll see why they desperately want to leave. In spite of my harsh words, I am not angry with you. Please do not take my words as a personal attack. I attack no-one, except the people who bring confusion and chaos and hatred into this world. You are not one of those, on the contrary. :)

Maan	12 Aug 2002
Just to add a little to the discusion. People always say that refuges have it so good here. Well IMHO that's not true...i don't know how it is in other countries but i think its almost the same. I have worked in a refuges shelter ( don't know the the right name sorry) Its not funn to be stuck i a shelter with a lot of people. There families of 5 persons living in one room. And than there are different cultures and different backgrounds. All forced to live in the same space. And of course there is alway the fear of being rejected and having to go back. I don't think ist that easy to leave your country. Most of the people i have worked with had a hihg social status in there native country....and then the arrive here and there on the bottum of our society. The have left there familie and friends behind....i just can't imnage there are alot of people that leave because of the money, i would not run from my home and family to live in an other country where people look down on me just to make extra money!

Emily	12 Aug 2002
I have read through the comments directed at my post, and perhaps some asylum seekers don't come here expecting to find a better standard of living than they have in the native countries, I know some have to leave because their lives are in danger and I'm sure other countries are doing just as much as we are but I see mass unemployment in this country, hospitals closing, schools closing down, even local swimming pools closing because the money isn't there to keep them running. I could go on but I won't bother, I'm not politically minded so I think I'll just leave this thread as it is.

The Job Seeker's Allowance, and Voluntary Work thread was originally posted on 06 Aug 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.