Media (throwing the baby out with the bathwater)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Aug 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Diana	17 Aug 2002
In the Elvis thread, there were some pretty violent attacks on the media. Why, if I didn't have the media, I would be the most ignorant person in the world. I wouldn't know a thing about what's going in the world. Someone said in the Elvis thread "You could take a week's worth of news programming from all the major channels and boil it down to about 30 minutes or real info." Sure. But who is forcing anyone to watch the news channels that provide this kind of rubbish? Some other people in the thread said they hated the media. There's media and media. It's such a pity to generalise. It's like saying that doctors are all murderers, because Shipman has murdered more than 200 patients. Or that all Catholic priests are pedophiles. If it weren't for the media, I wouldn't know about the war of plunder in Rwanda. If it weren't for the media, I wouldn't know about the Archbishop of Wales becoming a druid. If it weren't for the media, I wouldn't have stopped eating cow's meat years before most people had even heard of Mad Cow Disease. How could I learn about the Samis' (Lapps) fight to protect the Arctic wilderness? Where would I read about Asia's brown cloud - the "new" threat to the environment? Where would I read Amos Oz' latest declaration on the Israel/Palestinian conflict? Where could I learn more about the latest debates on Taiwanese independence? How could I follow the civil war in Colombia, or the mad ravings of Mugabe in Zimbabwe? It's from the media that I learn of all the art exhibitions going on in the world, of all the new plays opening in the theatres, and the new movies. I can even follow the sports news, if I am so inclined. Without reporters like Maggie O'Kane (may we sing her praises), John Vidal, John Gittings, and the likes, I would feel like a real country bumpkin. No-one is forcing anyone to watch the junk reporting. But please, please guys, don't throw out the baby with the bath-water. If it hadn't been for strong media support for sanctions in South Africa during the struggle against apartheid, it would have taken many more years for South Africa to be freed of the apartheid tyranny. And Mandela might have even died in prison. Just stop watching the junk. Turn off your TV when the rubbish comes on. Go and buy a decent newspaper, or turn into a decent TV news channel. Thank God for the media. :)

wavebreaker	17 Aug 2002
I totally agree, Diana. Not all media is bad, there are good news programs, documentaries, papers, etc too. I think it's important to know what's going on in the world, even though it's often not exactly pleasant news. But if we don't know what's going on in other parts of the world, how can we help each other, how can we work together to make this a better world?

jema	17 Aug 2002
i think the whole problem with the media is that they boil it down too much! what i want is more depth in the news. oh and another thing - when one is critzising the media one has to remember that they only gives us what we want. if no one wanted to read about elvis or ann-nichol smith - the media wouldn't print it. we control the media just as much as they control our thought. but if i seriously dislike a magazine for their trashy gossip - i don't buy it. and i don't read it at the dentists office either. i just ignore it and ask my dentist to buy some better reading materials. same with TV. if i don't like it - i don't watch it. i lived for many years without a TV and computers were hardly invented back then and i had still really fun evenings. on the internet when you want news - where do you go to read it? there are a lot of really awesome independent news on the net. ps, is the Archbishop of Wales really becoming a druid??? where, where??? i wanna read about it:)

divinerguy	17 Aug 2002
I see all forms of speech as a "marketplace of ideas" If something has merit, I put it in my basket and it goes home with me to become part of what I consider significant. If an item of speech, regardless of its source, has no value to me, I leave it on the shelf, and allow it to die a lonely death.

Umbrae	17 Aug 2002
You can dress a pig up, you can take it out...Sooner or later it will squeal. It's still a pig. On one hand, I agree with you. There is a useful aspect to media. On the other… My view of the media is rather personal. I get to see the results, up close and personal. Before I was at my current place of employment, I was a trainer. My background as a corporate trainer and my interest in the markets made me a shoe in for training individuals in the stock market. Everybody wanted to be a day trader. Everybody watched CNBC. People paid a king’s ransom to sit in a room and listen to me explain how to do it. …And they watched TV instead. Out of about twelve hundred people taught in a couple of years, I had two success stories. Every other person lost everything. Some lost beyond everything. Each of them lost everything with their eyes wide open, reacting to CNBC. “Financial News” is evil. CNBC says you should ignore history, it doesn't apply to you. Only the news of today matters. Remember when: The Pennsylvania Railroad Company was the most successful well-run company in the country. Zenith’s stock sold for over $300 a share. Sears’ sales used to be larger than its next two competitors combined. Schlitz was the best selling premium beer. Korvette was the leading discount store. Dow Jones Journal used to have a circulation of 2.1 million and was a monopoly. Chevrolet was the #1 car in America. In 1968, an editorial in Forbes Magazine stated, "The stock market is simply a marketplace where human beings interact, out of hope, fear, greed, need, and a desire to prove them-selves…So why don't we have more about the psychology of investing and less about the statistics?" …And CNBC feeds those emotions. The more the public watches, the more they will lose. The markets (with the help of CNBC) have taken more than one quarter of the market participants out of the game {since 1998}. They are gone. They have no money. Some have lost houses, retirement… We hear about Enron workers, but we do not hear about the guy down the street. The normal Joe, who lost it all in a market fueled by the media. I suppose my hatred comes from a personal level; in that many times in my life, media as proven itself to be...a pig.

Diana	17 Aug 2002
No-one is forcing anyone to watch CNBC. Or that sensationalist CNN which we also get in Switzerland. Surely there must be ONE decent TV channel in the United States? I find it hard to believe that they're all trash! There is a world beyond CNN and CNBC and Cartoon Network. There is a world beyond Time and Newsweek. Just look for it. You'll find it. Even if it is on more distant shores.

Lee	17 Aug 2002
Well, in the U.S. we can watch "The MacNeil/Lehrer News Hour," which is an hour of thoughtful news and commentary and interviews every night on public television. I agree with Diana. However, as someone who for his job has to listen to local TV news from around the U.S. all day, I must say the quality is pretty low. The Arizona Republic is hardly a great newspaper, but it's about a thousand times better than a local news broadcast. You have to remember that TV news generally gives you only three sentences of a story, whereas in the newspaper you'll get at least seven times that amount. I think the point is we should be grateful for the amount of information available to us in this information age, but that only increases our obligation (to ourselves as well as others) to be selective about what we watch/read. -- Lee

jade	17 Aug 2002
i never watch the news. i never know what is going on in the world. i choose not to. but...... i am thankful for the media because it keeps the 'higher ups' on their toes......and watching their steps moreso than if there was none. then they would have free reign. so, even though i choose not to partake.......i am thankful for them, regardless. :D love jade

VGimlet	17 Aug 2002
Here in the US at least, I think many people truly just believe what they see on TV, without exercising any judgement or critical thinking. And not just the TV, but in the paper as well. As I've gotten older, there have been many instances when stories have been printed in the local papers, and shown on television involving people I personally know, or events I personally witnessed. In every case, at least one of the facts has been incorrect, or the person misquoted, or the event itself completely blown out of proportion. I do keep track of what is going on in the world, but I also keep in mind that I'm probably not getting all the facts, or real information, or even the other side of the story. I do think the media has its uses, and there are reporters and journalists who really care about what they are doing. But I take everything with a grain of salt. Ken, my sweet hubby himself, 'was killed in a motorcycle accident' about fifteen years ago. Luckily they didn't print his name, or people would have really freaked out. He took great delight in telling people "Hey, I'm dead, don't you read the papers?" LOL.

Poetlove	17 Aug 2002
Media is Media, and nothing that we can do will change it. It is like everything else in life, you have to take the good with the bad. I believe almost everywhere you have the "option" to watch, or read what you want too. If people didn't want Elvis, then he would not be in the news / mags. Turn the channel, or don't buy that paper.

Jenny-Li	17 Aug 2002
It's probably that we're from the same country and all, but my take is the same as Jema's, the media is often bound by some sort of marketplace rules where the audience must be served what they want to watch, and they supposedly only want stuff involving sex, violence (but leaving out the politics, that's waaaay too boring!), and celebrities. And most importantly, the whole thing mustn't take longer than a commercial break to present. It's kind of like people can't stand to watch the news anymore, so the media start sending less and less of it (because if people don't watch it, companies won't buy commercials time if there's too much of those "black holes" in the tableau, and TV-channels end up focusing on docu-soaps and sitcoms instead... Yes, there are good media channels and good programs that show you really interesting things about the world today, but those channels are really fighting against the odds, because that kind of channels don't generate any big bucks as long as the vast masses can't be bothered with anything more serious than "Survivor". I don't generalize, and I try to watch the "serious" channels myself when I watch TV, but I can't help noticing what plague is spreading across the media scenes. It's sad. Jenny :)

Dark Inquisitor	17 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by jade i never watch the news. i never know what is going on in the world. i choose not to. love jade I did that for a while a long time ago, and noticed I slept a lot better. How long have you been doing that jade? Tarotphelia

Umbrae	17 Aug 2002
We used to have 30 minutes of local news, and 30 minutes of world news (I still remember the Huntley-Brinkley report, they’d smoke and give the news). Now, network marketing has sold us on the idea that we need news. We have 30 minutes of local, 30 minutes of world, another hour of local, 20/20, 60 Minutes, 48 Hours, Dateline, Nightline, Entertainment Tonight, Evening Magazine, People Magazine, Northwest Afternoon, Sportsline, 24 hour news networks, 24 hour local news networks…there is no end to it. Folks believe the marketing that they need to be informed. However most US news carries a horrid bias that will state opinion as fact, manufacture news items, and sway stories into a particular light. Overall, it is the marketing and the bias that I have an issue with. It is difficult to find un-biased news over here. There was a time in the ‘60’s that news was accused of being a puppet of the big Government/Industrial war machine. Now it has swung so far the other direction, that those who protested its bias, cannot, or are unwilling to admit that it has indeed swung the opposite direction. Advertisers no longer sell products, but lifestyles, “buy this product and your life can be just like this…” Folks are inundated with sitcoms that portray unattainable lifestyles that are supported by merchants selling unattainable lifestyles…and folks wonder why they are not happy. Their souls are starved and they know not why. They believe the lie in the big box that is always on, always hyping from a prominent location in their front room. That is my complaint…

jade	17 Aug 2002
Tarotphelia, i stopped watching about 16 years ago :D and barely watched before then but my first husband was glued to the news every night. i find that when i do happen to watch it......i get so depressed at the state of the world. it's better for my mental health and my spiritual self for me to not take in that 'reality'. for me, my world is a place of love and compassion. random acts of kindness and the odd tragedy here and there..........but 17 a day, nope i don't even want to cope with that! i believe that when we watch violence alot then we become numb to the reality of what it truly is. so i don't want to be numb. when someone i know is robbed or raped or murdered, i want to feel it, take it seriously........and i feel that i do, moreso, because i'm not numb. (i used to be numb and could hear anything and not even blink an eye about it. so i speak from MY experience) i don't live in bubble.......people tell me what's going on in my area.......i hear when someone is abducted or an abduction is attempted etc..........when the house next door is robbed etc......so i'm aware. but i can tell you that i'm soooo much happier now. :D and that's what really counts :D in light, jade :D

Melvis	17 Aug 2002
Umbrae, how is it that you can say what I mean so much better than I can? ;) I should know better than to try to commit my true media feelings to the keyboard at 1:00 am. It all comes out so crabby at that time of night/morning. I do look to alternative sources to keep up on news and current events. I think Frontline on PBS does an excellent job most of the time for more in-depth coverage of a topic (excellent point, jema!), and I listen to All Things Considered and various other programs on NPR for daily info. But, like VGimlet points out, I know that I have to take any news I get with a grain of salt. Public television and radio have their own biases with which I must deal if I intend to watch/listen to them regularly. Also, I apologize for the violence in my statement about giving Stone Phillips a 'swirlie.' It was uncalled for, of course. But if someone happens to see him on the street, could you at least give him a 'wet willie' for me? I'd just feel so much better. Peace, Melvis :TSTRE P.S. Your world sounds perfectly wonderful, Jade! Can I come visit sometime? :D

DarkElectric	17 Aug 2002
I Agree with those who say 'Put down that paper' or Change that channel. However... Several years ago I was a college student. What was my major? Television/Media studies. Why? I loved what I thought would be the endless creative possibilities, and I was darn good camera person, with a talent and aptitude for writing. So, on the advice of some friends, I went to school for it. I ended up quitting school. Why? I found out the 'inside' story on programming, News especially...) how it is constructed. Media theory. LCD programming is the industry standard. LCD? Lowest Common Denominator. No joke, This is what it's called. Cater to whatever is the most prevalent social pattern. Creative possibilities? If you can be creative with violence, and T&A. I was told by one professor that.."programming is just used to fill a bit of space between commercials." For real. What do people all seem to love. Gossip, the more salacious, the better. Sensationalism. Sex. Sex comedies. Other people's dirty laundry. Cannabalism, and other grotesqueries. Man's inhumanity to man. And all delivered in a 20 second sound bite, because the American attention span has shortened, considerably. This, coupled with the 'Dumbdown' of American society leaves us in a cultural wasteland where intellegence, if not openly ridiculed by the general public, is relatively ignored. Conversely, ignorance is exaulted. Hey, if we weren't all a bunch of "dummies", then how could CNN save us from our tragic condition of abject stupidity with their' unbiased' reporting, and charming 'factoids" (What kind of a word is 'factoid' anyway? A cross between schitzoid, or paranoid and fact? Hmmm.) The reason I left school...I could not, with a clear conscience, continue to expend my time and energy feeding an industry with what I percieved as an ugly aganda. I admit, there is some really great media out there. Journalism was, and in some cases still is, an honoured, and ethical profession. I have endless respect for this. But, as seems to be the case with anything of truly fine quality, this is the exception, not the rule, and it becomes a real search to find unbiased content and fair reporting on practically any subject. No, I don't have some really hot job in the television industry now. But I have that clear conscience now, and am not in conflict with my personal ethics as concerns how I make a living.

jade	17 Aug 2002
melvis, i have a little spot saved for you beside my pond. our tree frogs and hummingbirds will keep us company as we contemplate whether the new delphinium should go beside the pond or if we should, perhaps create another garden to hold it's beauty...........:D love jade

wavebreaker	18 Aug 2002
Yes, horrible things are happening in the world today, some of them too horrible to imagine. It's not exactly pleasant to hear or read about them, but sadly, it's reality. Using the bad media as an excuse not to get informed about what's happening in the world sounds like a very bad excuse to me. Like some people said: the media is market-driven, you get what you ask for. So ask for something else! I don't see how ignoring all that's happening in the world today and hiding in your own little world is ever going to change anything. If we would all do that, nothing would ever change in this world, it would only make things worse. I've worked at Amnesty International's international head quarters. While I was working there, I saw reports, testimonies, even videos, of the human rights violations that are going on in the world. Many of them were too horrible to believe, but they were true. It is unimaginable what some human beings can do to their fellow human beings, but you'd better imagine it, because it's true, it's happening every day. My comfort when realising all this was that I was actually doing something to help battle these atrocities, even though it was only a very small thing. But small things are often enough to cause change, especially if a lot of people each do one small thing. The work of Amnesty International is proof of that. I'm still an active member of AI, and I always will be. The things I'm doing for them hardly take up any of my time, they are really easy to do and it's the least I can do. And I know that what they are doing is effective, every time I read in one of their news letters how an innocent political prisoner was set free, or how a prisoner's torture was stopped, or even how laws have changed thanks to the letters I and many others have sent, my heart rejoices. And that is exactly how I CAN handle the bad news: because I know I'm doing my own tiny little thing to help change things. It tires me and annoys me if people say that they can't change the world and that they can't handle the truth. Try explaining that to the victims of all the terrible things that are happening throughout the world: "Sorry, but I can't handle what you're going through". THEY can handle it, so surely we can! Sorry for ranting, I don't want to offend anyone here, but I just can't help caring for what's happening in our world today, not just in my own backyard, not just in my own country, but all over the world. I've travelled a lot, I've visited a lot of other countries and learned about a lot of other cultures and to me they are just as valuable as my own country and my own culture.

Diana	18 Aug 2002
Tarotlady: I agree that hiding from the reality of the world is not going to help the world get any better. But I think there are some people who cannot handle violence and aggression. And the world's problems create such fear and panic in them, that it is perhaps wiser that they first deal with the cause of their fear, before reading all the horrors. Because it is not by being fearful, that one can help the world. On the contrary. I realise too that when people talk "media" here on this thread, that it is mostly TV. I find this sad that TV has replaced the written word to such an extent. It is far easier to manipulate people with pictures than with words. (Although words are powerful too.) But one has more time to contemplate with the written word. Also, watching TV is absolutely passive. Reading a newspaper is far more active. TV is the biggest manipulator. Dark Electric's post was extremely enlightening.

Jenny-Li	18 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by tarotlady ... they can't change the world and that they can't handle the truth. Don't misunderstand me here, but I really really wish I could disagree with you, Tarotlady. But I can't. In an other forum (it's non-themed and just personal stuff-forum) just the other day there was a girl who wondered if it was OK for her to write about her personal problems, and to my great shock people actually said, "well, er, I think that kind of stuff is kinda scary, perhaps you could just leave out the gory parts?". As in "please, I don't want to know". With the manipulative media as a marketplace where the most loudly-howling crowd gets what it wants, apparently this approach is gaining on us, because people obviouslyl don't want to know. To me this is basically the same thing as Kiama's story a few months back about the girl who was beat up in front of loads of people who did nothing to stop it. If we keep closing our eyes, or zapping to another channel as soon as we see something that interferes with our own little world of friendliness and light, we're doing just the same thing - NOTHING. Diana, I think that TV isn't mainly the biggest manipulator, but the biggest PASSIVATOR, and that's what makes it so powerful, and potentially dangerous. Because if the majority of the world sit passively in their TV-sofas thinking "how awful these news are, I wonder if there's a good sitcom on another channel", how are we ever going to regain balance in the world? Like Tarotlady, I am not pointing any fingers here, I don't have any particulars in mind, but this issue raised thoughts I've been having for a long time, and this seemed to be a good time to bring them up for debate. Light and love, Jenny :)

WolfSpirit	18 Aug 2002
You can choose what kind of news you want: the gossip or the serious issues, but you never know if you get the whole story, I agree with VGimlet on that. I sometimes watch news on TV, but I also read a quality newspaper with background articles. But sometimes you get home from work you brain already fried and you see that bulky newspaper and you think: pffff, I'm not going to read all that. It's a full time job to be fully informed. And then I sometimes wonder: if you are only half informed, it's just as good to be not informed at all because you don't get wrong opinions. Then I don't want to know everything either. I remember a programme on tv where victims of some regime were telling how they were tortured and it made me sick to the stomach (I don't have a very high level of intake in things like that) and I thought: uuuugghhh... I really don't want to know all that. I'm sure it was good for the people involved they could tell their story to the world, but instead of enabling me to offer help I had a problem calming myself down. Then there are people who do read all the horror stories and it still would not make them react. They read the paper shaking their head oooo, the world is such a bad place. I'm so happy all these horrible things don't happen to me. Being better informed people does not turn them into better people. Me and the media...I guess it's love and hate both. When I'm on holiday I don't feel the need to be informed at all. I don't think I could or would want to live like that at home.

Lee	18 Aug 2002
You know, I think it's great for people to want to help those in other countries, but I'd just like to make the point that there are all different kinds of people, and some are constituted in such a way that they seek out those who are far away to try to help them, and others are not interested in those who are far away but instead try to do what they can to help out their neighbors. Who is to say that the person helping those far away is adding more goodness to the world than the person helping their neighbors? Some people believe that if one goes into seclusion on a mountaintop and radiates goodness into the world, then this in itself is helping all the people in the world. I'm not sure if I believe that, but I'm certainly not going to tell that person that they need to come down off that mountaintop and turn on the television and join Amnesty or else they're not making a difference. Who am I to pass such a judgment? I'd also like to point out that in the U.S. (I won't presume to speak for those who live in other countries) we pay taxes, and a portion of those taxes go to help people. It's true that we may disagree with exactly how the taxes are spent, but in my opinion, if someone were a tax-paying citizen and did nothing else to help anyone, they would still be satisfying their obligations to society because of the fact that they pay taxes, part of which goes to assist many people both at home and abroad. -- Lee

Jenny-Li	18 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lee Who is to say that the person helping those far away is adding more goodness to the world than the person helping their neighbors? Noone of course, and as far as I can tell noone did either. What I think, is that if someone changes his or her TV-channel when they show some unpleasant news story that they don't want to know about, or when they turn their back on someone getting beat up in the street, then those two actions ARE basically the same, and I think that kind of action is maintaining the unbalance of good and evil in the world. It reproduces and spreads in the shape of fear throughout the world. And THAT's what scares me... What we do to do good I don't think really matters, as long as we don't turn our backs, as long as we do what we truely believe in our hearts is what is the best for the world. Quote: Originally posted by Lee I'd also like to point out that in the U.S. (I won't presume to speak for those who live in other countries) we pay taxes, and a portion of those taxes go to help people. It's true that we may disagree with exactly how the taxes are spent, but in my opinion, if someone were a tax-paying citizen and did nothing else to help anyone, they would still be satisfying their obligations to society because of the fact that they pay taxes, part of which goes to assist many people both at home and abroad. If filling obligations in a satisfactory level is all we must, can or will do about the state our world is in, then I truely belive we ALL should start being very, very afraid about where this world is going. Because then all we do is wait for somebody else to solve our problems for us, while we watch. Or turn our backs, because as long as we've paid our taxes we've "satisfied our obligations", and who could possibly ask us for more than that?? Jenny

Umbrae	18 Aug 2002
Folks, there are two different Ideas in this thread. 1) Media: That news and or entertainment have value. 2) Awareness of the world’s situations has a personal value. We have lost the oral traditions. Oral histories are lost, or translated into a medium that only entertains and does not educate. Look how Disney destroyed the Celtic mythos. Knowing why will not help you if you choose to do nothing. If you truly want to change the world, it is not done by marching with a sign. You do not stop injustice half a world away. You stop injustice, and man’s inhumanity to man in your own backyard. You might have to get dirty; you might have to risk your reputation or your life. Folks who do not listen to the global or national news are not sticking their head in the sand. They are taking care of their own backyard. Knowing why a door has hinges does not open it. You have to reach out your hand, undo the latch, and open it.

Jenny-Li	18 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Folks who do not listen to the global or national news are not sticking their head in the sand. They are taking care of their own backyard. If only that was necessarily so, my point is most people do neither, and think that's fine. Why are we so lazy/passivated/scared we can't do both? If Chinese people get shot for doing basically nothing special at all, and therefore don't dare fight on their own, what is so difficult for us to stand up, with a sign or whatever, and show them that people outside their own backyard people actually DO care! By the way: just because I care about the global perspective, it doesn't mean I don't take care of "my own backyard". Jenny :)

wavebreaker	18 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Folks who do not listen to the global or national news are not sticking their head in the sand. They are taking care of their own backyard. Please don't get me wrong: there is nothing wrong with caring about your own backyard, on the contrary. But we are having problems in this world today that need global solutions, like the environment. What use is it if my country uses green electricity to reduce pollution, if the majority of the world are continuing their pollution?? I also think we have a responsiblity towards poorer countries. I am lucking to be living in a country where we have enough money to provide for everyone, with a well-organized social security system, good medical insurance, etc. Yes, I pay taxes for that. But I don't think that's enough, there are many countries out there who don't have enough money to provide this for their citizens. Or where people are being repressed by their governments and their basic human rights are being violated. If I can do something, however small, to help out in this by supporting certain organizations, I will do that. It's the least I can do. And I don't trust my government to do enough on that part, just because I'm paying taxes, especially not our current government... The point I'm trying to get across here is that I think we should think more globally. We can't expect that, by solving our own countries' problems, we're finished. It's a start, yes, but there's more to it. Because if other countries are still having problems, that will affect our own country too.

jade	18 Aug 2002
Quote: What I think, is that if someone changes his or her TV-channel when they show some unpleasant news story that they don't want to know about, or when they turn their back on someone getting beat up in the street, then those two actions ARE basically the same,..... i completely disagree with this. i don't watch the news but i would never allow someone to be beat up in the street with me there! how can you possibly say that those two actions are "basically the same" ~~~ personally, i focus more on changing what i can. i recycle everything i possibly can. i plant trees (planted 4 in the last month!). i support people thru listening, donations and my time. i clean up my neighbourhood from trash. i put money in the little jars at the markets for someone who's house has burned down (for example). i ALWAYS buy these little donation coupons at the market for my local food bank. we donate $50 a month to some other local charities. (coats for kids, the vancouver soup kitchen, meals on wheels etc.) and to do my part, since i am part of the media in essence with my column at "Body, Mind, Spirit"...... i share with people how we can change our lives and become more positive, loving and spiritual. so for anyone to say that because i don't watch the news or read the paper i'm hiding my head, or not doing enough, or turning my back..........please rethink that statement. some people are informed and do nothing. others are uninformed and do much. in light, jade

Diana	18 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae 1) Media: That news and or entertainment have value. 2) Awareness of the world’s situations has a personal value. (...................) If you truly want to change the world, it is not done by marching with a sign. You do not stop injustice half a world away. You stop injustice, and man’s inhumanity to man in your own backyard. Yes, it is important to help one's neighbour. That is most definitely where one must start. But does the world stop at our doorsteps? Or at the end of the city limits? I repeat what I said in my first post on this thread, and I could give dozens of other examples : "If it hadn't been for strong media support for sanctions in South Africa during the struggle against apartheid, it would have taken many more years for South Africa to be freed of the apartheid tyranny. And Mandela might have even died in prison." And we marched. And we protested. And we picketed Embassies 24 hours even in the freezing winter nights. And the media followed us. Bless them. And then the world leaders slowly followed too. (Except for the damn Swiss - but Ed Fagan has decided to deal with this problem for us now - lol - ). And the racist government was brought to its knees. Nearer home, if you like : When Kiama told us about the injustice done to her Dad at the unemployment agency, what did we advise her? Contact the press. The press has their uses. The television too. I just started this thread 'cos I thought it was a pity to trash all the media, just 'cos some of it is useless. And I still think it's a pity.

wavebreaker	18 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by jade so for anyone to say that because i don't watch the news or read the paper i'm hiding my head, or not doing enough, or turning my back..........please rethink that statement. I don't think anybody here intended to say that, if that's how what I said came across, I'm sorry. The point I was trying to make is: how can you do something if you don't know what's going on?? Plus the point about thinking globally, which I explained in my last post. Cleaning up your own neighbourhood and recycling your own trash is great, but that's only a very small part of the problem. Like Diana says: the world doesn't stop at our doorsteps...

Jenny-Li	18 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by jade how can you possibly say that those two actions are "basically the same" Sorry, fuzzy way of expressing myself here: I meant that IF one does both of those things they are virtually part of the same... "mechanism" (for lack of better words, I wish I could explain this in Swedish, I'm sure you wouldn't mistunderstand then... :() It's the attitude with which people change the channel or turn their backs I'm getting at here, because I think there is a parallell between those two ways of acting. That has NOTHING to do with your choice Jade, and I'm so sorry you took it that way. Quote: Originally posted by jade so for anyone to say that because i don't watch the news or read the paper i'm hiding my head, or not doing enough, or turning my back..........please rethink that statement. I hope my rephrasing is OK? Quote: Originally posted by jade some people are informed and do nothing. others are uninformed and do much. This is actually my point too. I just think many/most people are uninformed AND do nothing, and that's what makes me so sad. For me the welfare of the world is kind of a "Karmic lesson" that we ALL have to work on together if we want to figure out. And in that perspective I believe in doing as much as I can, and even where I can't do much at least SEE the people struggling in far away places, be it caused by war, pollution, starvation, fascism whatever. Joint forces (and I don't mean war forces, but just good oldfashioned good-spirited energies) is the only answer I can see. If I SEE those people and recognize their hardships, then at least I have done that. And I can give some money to help the charity-organizations working in the area. My own energy and physical being in aid to others I can only give "in my backyard", so that I do. I hope I have made my point a bit clearer now, and that no misunderstandings remain. If there are any, just ask. I'm not a horrible person with horrible opinions, I do sometimes express myself clumsily in English though. ;) Light and love, Jenny

purplelady	18 Aug 2002
I like to read a newspaper a couple of times a week. I feel the newspaper has a lot more depth than the nightly news on t.v. I think t.v. does cater to the lowest common denominator. That isn't to say that sometimes there isn't a decent news specialty show on. I agree with the t.v. and passivity thing. I see way too many people content to just sit there and stare at the news or whatever else is on. I don't understand why people listen to the same thing rehashed over and over again. (For instance , whatever happened that day , lets say a murder. You can hear it over and over on the news morning , noon , and night. ) Columbine, and 9/11 were terrible but I'm totally tired about hearing about it and could care even less about who is suing whom over it. I DO care about what is happening globally, and human rights in other countries (and this one). I agree that video can be a powerful media in this instance. But I also agree that caring about and cleaning up one's own backyard is probubly the best way to start, or the most effective way to start to help the world.

VGimlet	18 Aug 2002
I, for myself, feel it's important to keep informed. Even if I only believe 50% of what I see or hear, I want to know what's going on in the world. I watch the local news, read the paper a few times a week, and look at news on the internet - sites all over the world, because for me it's important to get different perspectives. (It's always interesting to read world news stories from the involved areas viewpoint.) But some people can't handle it. I have two friends, both compassionate caring people who do a lot of good things (one of them even donated a kidney - to a stranger) and are active in a number of different causes, but neither of them can watch the news. It disturbs them too much. I think for them, it's better not to watch. Edited, as usual, because I can't spell when I'm typing. ;)

jade	18 Aug 2002
i agree that making changes in the world is important. as for the question: where does your block or city end? (i'm paraphrasing) if EVERYONE took care of their block............everything would be covered :D i'm sooo supportive of people like diana,........who step outside their 'world' and touch others. i think that deep down we are all trying to say similar things,....just using different words to say it. in light, jade ps jenny, i get what you were saying now. :D

Maan	18 Aug 2002
Just a little note. People seem to forget that what you do affects the whole planet. The fact that there are poor countries is for a big part our( rich countries) fault. If whe did not have exploited those countries in the past maybe they would not have been so poor. So i extually believe that's our duty to take care of those less fortunate than us. They made us rich!!! So now whe have to help them in return!!!! And if whe don't start to think globaly than i believe the world will come to an end. It may be better for the economy to pollute the air. The long term affects are not yet visible and the country will become richer and the people would have more to spend. But in the end there would not be any fresh air to bread!!! Oke i know this is a little of topic but i could not help myself :)

wavebreaker	19 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by jade if EVERYONE took care of their block............everything would be covered :D In an ideal world... yes. But my point is that unfortunately this isn't an ideal world, which is why I think we should reach out to those who cannot take care of their own block, across borders.

The Media (throwing the baby out with the bathwater) thread was originally posted on 17 Aug 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.