PayPal Warning--Lightlike found this!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 25 Aug 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

RedWood	25 Aug 2002
Lightlike found this....And Said I could post it for all!!! I have had problems with emailing them questions...They never answer back..I don't think I will be using them anymore.. http://www.paypalwarning.com/Default.htm

DarkElectric	25 Aug 2002
OMG. No wonder I had such a difficult time getting information from paypal. I still have to deposit $25.00 to get my one year membership upgrade. I hope they don't bother freezing low level non business accounts!

RedWood	25 Aug 2002
They do have alternatives...like Billpoint.com mto use..that is backed by FDIC...Might be a thought to not use paypal at all now..

Lightlike	25 Aug 2002
The website www.paypalwarning.com also has a list of web articles that shed more light on the autrocities of Paypal. http://www.paypalwarning.com/ThingsYouShouldSee/Default.htm A few of the links don't work (most likely due to the articles being older) but some links do work and offer true accounts of what has happened to people using Paypal. Jessie PS: Thanks for posting it for me Redwood :-P

debins	25 Aug 2002
I won't touch them with even a proverbial ten foot pole.

Strega	25 Aug 2002
OMG!!! And I just transfered $200 from my bank account! :(

RedWood	25 Aug 2002
Ack Strega..>Well now you know..better late then never..right?? I know not very comforting..

Strega	25 Aug 2002
*growl* :( I'm transferring the money back to my bank account. Thanks for the info, RedWood. :)

RedWood	25 Aug 2002
Thank Lightlike...she found it!!! Glad you can do that...on the site it does give alternatives that are backed by real banks...

DarkElectric	25 Aug 2002
When I visited the paypal site to check my account, I remember reading somthing there about paypal being purchased by e-bay. I also just read, in the link from Lightlike, that Billpoint is one of e-bay's companies. This could either improve paypal, or make things weirder...

jema	25 Aug 2002
if one is aware that they are not a bank and use them just as a middle-hand and don't have a credit card with any credit on. i think you are pretty safe.

jade	25 Aug 2002
Quote: This website is a collection of horror stories, news reports and other information addressing problems with Paypal, Inc.._ While we do not have the resources to verify each and every complaint we receive , we do believe that all reports posted here are true based on our own experience with Paypal and the growing number of corroborating_ horror stories we receive every day. i think it's important to realize here that this site is just like any other email that may come into your account regarding a virus................ they do not verify any of these stories! can any of you, honestly say, that you know of any company that has absolutely NO dissatisfied customers? i have friends that have used paypal for their online business' and they haven't had any problems at all. they tell business' to make sure that their return policy is on their site.........and if it is, then they don't refund against your policy! in light, jade

Jenny-Li	25 Aug 2002
Hmpff... Isn't it just my usual bad luck to find this less than 24 hours after (attempting to) opening my own account with PP? Well, as Jema said, I guess this applies only if you deposit money with them (?), and I didn't even know you could do that before I read this site anyway. I would never do that (deposit money with an abroad company - hardly with a domestic one either if they do not have bank status...), especially since it's harder for me to pull strings on people pulling red tape on me, since I am... er, hm... a few miles away from them! Had a dispute with a London train-traffic company, who drew money twice for the same ticket, and trying to get that money back when I was already back in Stockholm - that was a struggle! :mad: I'm calling my bank tomorrow to find out what their position on PayPal is, and if they aren't happy and can figure out what went wrong with my AT-subscription payment, I'm ditching the lot of it... Thanks for sharing the site though! Jenny :)

Strega	25 Aug 2002
Thanks, Lightlike.

RedWood	25 Aug 2002
True Jade...I do know from personal experience that they do you not send you an email..They send at automated one..no matter how many times I have tried to send an email they do not give me a person response..The do automated that does not work..I will use them for small stuff..Just not anything major.... If that website is not right! great for others..but i do think it would help to go with one that is FDIC protected..

jade	25 Aug 2002
i agree redwood :D love jade

truthsayer	25 Aug 2002
while i realize whether or not that website is authentic is an unknown, the fact that it exists at all is an extremely sobering thought. i have used paypal quite liberally this summer buying decks and books. i am now beating my head w/ my keyboard. why oh why! didn't i check paypal out more thoroughly? for a woman who doesn't even trust her mother w/ money this was certainly brainless of me!!!! there's hope, i guess b/c i haven't had a backlash from paypal yet but hearing that it could still come from the ghosts of purchases past...i promise myself that i will NOT use paypal again!! there is another pay thru internet site called energyflow.com. they are much more strict about who they let in and how much money can change hands until you've been a good customer for a while. it's the site that geraldine amaral (tarot celebrations) and carol herzer? the illuminated tarot recommend. i know i've seen several sellers at ebay refuse to use paypal. well, folks, i wonder when i'm going to sleep all night again...

DarkElectric	25 Aug 2002
it looks as though I'm going to have to use it again to upgrade my membership. I'm small potatoes...they didn't mess up last time. I think as long as I keep it to amounts of less than $50.00 I'll be alright. If it could fall out of my wallet on the street, and not cause permanent damage...ya know?

Umbrae	25 Aug 2002
Uh... I have never had a problem with Pay Pal. My brother in law makes his living on E-Bay and has only had one issue with Pay Pal. Well, when in trouble or in doubt - run in circles - scream and shout!

Liliana	25 Aug 2002
Paypal really isnt much of a problem for people who are sending money, its people who are receving money thats in more likely danger, since you get a "balance" in your acount. but we'll see what happens when ebay takes it. :THP

Jeannette	25 Aug 2002
Thanks, MeeWah, for forwarding this thread to my attention. I guess I'd better start monitoring the "Chat" board more frequently! Here's some additional comments about PayPal from a seller's point-of-view: * One of the good things about PayPal is that they have revolutionized business on the Internet. PayPal has made it possible for buyers to make connections with small sellers, and conduct successful business transactions without the need for the seller to make a tremendous investment in a secure online payment acceptance system of their own. Without PayPal, it would be much more difficult (or at least certainly less convenient) for Lori and I at Tarot Garden to service customers who need either secure acceptance of credit card information, or an alternative to both credit card payment and sending checks/money orders through the mail. * And, as Jade has already pointed out, do you know of any company the size of PayPal who does not have dissatisfied customers? If nothing else, some people have probably run afoul of PayPal for legitimate reasons, but of course, no one likes to believe that they are "in the wrong." * In brief, PayPal in general seems to be on the "up-and-up"... if they were a total scam, they would have been in trouble with the law long ago. And they would not have been able to maintain their status as the #1 online payment service if everyone who used their service experienced the types of horror stories related through the "paypalwarning" site. * For my own testimonial, I can say with absolute honesty that I have conducted hundreds of transactions through eBay, both as buyer and seller, involving literally thousands of dollars worth of sales, without a single problem in three years as a "private" PayPal user, and 18 months as a "business" PayPal user. With that said, I do want to make it clear that my feelings towards PayPal are not all "chocolate and roses." Although my own experiences have been very positive, and I intend to continue to use their services, there are a number of factors which make me wish I could be less dependent upon them. These include: * The fact that PayPal is not FDIC insured, and PayPal's policies specifically state that they do not guarantee the safety of any funds in their accounts. * The possibility that they can "freeze" your PayPal funds without providing you with adequate recourse. * The fact that their customer service is pretty well confirmed as being lousy-to-nonexistant. (Fortunately, I've never had to use their customer service for any issues of extreme importance, but when I've tried to use it to get answers to basic questions not addressed or addressed clearly in their online help, I've never even received a response.) * I do know of at least one case of a legitimate PayPal user (a buyer, not a seller) who has had just an awful time in getting some rather nasty, uncalled-for problems addressed and resolved with the service. So it's clear to me, at any rate, that the complaints against PayPal aren't all from disgruntled customers with unreasonable expectations. * And my #1 reservation about PayPal: they have indeed been acquired by eBay. And if there's any dot-com business that people should be more afraid of than PayPal IMHO, it's eBay. I won't go into any diatrabes about that necessary evil (for online business operators), as that would take this post off-topic. But I can't imagine that things will get any better when eBay takes over. If anything, I expect they'll probably get much worse. I already don't use BillPoint as a payment service unless absolutely necessary, because as is typcial of eBay's "constellation of services," it's a complete nightmare (and ripoff, in comparison to other online payment services) for sellers. I ran across the "paypalwarning" site some time ago, which is where I learned about c2it.com. We began experimenting with c2it about a year ago, and now offer it as a full-fledged payment option to our customers. In its early stages, c2it was rather slow and cumbersome to use. But they've made a number of improvements over the last 12 months, and now I find it to be a very viable online payment system. It's owned and operated by Citibank, one of the U.S.'s largest banking interests, and as such, is legitimate and FDIC insured. And for AOL users, c2it.com is fully compatible with AOL's "QuickCash" payment system. In addition, my experiences with c2it's customer service have been outstanding -- their responsiveness in comparison to PayPal is, well... it's not even comparable. You can't compare something to something else that doesn't exist, right? The drawback is that c2it is not currently international in scope... it's only available to U.S. residents. So, until another online payment service comes along that can address the same international market that PayPal does, and until enough of my U.S. customers abandon PayPal as their preferred online payment services, I'll continue to use PayPal's services. While, of course, keeping my own PayPal balance to a minimum... -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden http://www.tarotgarden.com

jade	26 Aug 2002
thank you for that enlightening post. :D jade

Strega	26 Aug 2002
Thanks, Jeannette. I think I'll stay with Paypal for now. I'm just a buyer, and it's my only way to online shopping. (I don't have a CC.) :)

WolfSpirit	26 Aug 2002
During my short (well for the time being ;)) but heavy ebay addiction I used paypal a lot and never had any trouble. I once wanted to buy something from a lady who did not like paypal and said I could send the money by mail. I think I rather trust paypal. The scary thing about these companies is: they are so much more difficult to contact than say, your local bank.

The PayPal Warning--Lightlike found this! thread was originally posted on 25 Aug 2002 in the Chat board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Chat, or read more archived threads.