Cult and Religion- What's the difference?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Jan 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	23 Jan 2002
I had soe free time today at school, so I went to the library, and picked up a book about cults. It was very good, fairly recent in its information, adnd I learned loads. However, I came across some bits about Druidry and Wicca, and according to this book they are both cults! >( But what exactly is a cult, ad how is it different to a religion? I mean, when we think of cult, we usually think of smething bad, like Jonestown, etc, but this isn't the case with all 'cults'. Some of them are just belief systems, and are peaceful.... I know this is probably gonna boil down to definitions, but I just wana examine some of the similarites between religion and 'cults'. So far, they are very similar. So, what distinguishes a religion from a cult? Kiama ???

Diana	23 Jan 2002
Kiama, there is a basic problem here, in that the etymology of the latin "religio" is not quite certain, and scholars argue still yet about this. But the most commonly accepted etymology is that of "binding things together" - therefore religion binds people together in common beliefs and practices. A cult is, as I understand it, a non-traditional religious movement. The word "cult" has taken on a rather derogatory meaning, mostly due to the powerful influence that the traditional religions (Catholic and their offshoot Protestant religions) have in our Western world. But actually, depending on the context, it is not necessarily degoratory, if you accept the definition of non-traditional religion. You say you think of something bad like Jonestown or something when you hear the word "cult". Jonestown was more a sect - if one accepts the definition of a sect which includes a charismatic leader, very strict rules and more than likely, a lot of material sacrifices (i.e. money). There again, that has been an extremely unfortunate amalgam between "cult" and "sect" with people tending to mix up the two. Pity. And I think it's going to get worse. Have a nice day

Major Tom	23 Jan 2002
Diana - At your current rate you should exceed my post total in no time. }> Kiama - I think you're right about it coming down to definitions. I've consulted my ancient dictionary (gotta get a new one for playing scrabble) and feel I can safely say these were once the meanings of these words (the problem being the evolution of language): cult n. [< l. culpa, fault] 1. a system of religious worship. 2. devoted attachment to a person, principle, etc. 3. a sect. religion n. [< l. religio] 1. belief in God or gods to be worshiped, usually expressed in conduct and ritual. 2. an specific system of belief, worship, etc. sect n. [< l. sequi, follow] 1. a religious denomination. 2. a group of people having a common leadership, philosophy, etc. By these definitions both Catholics and Wiccans are a cult, a religion, and a sect, as are political parties in a democracy. }> :D

Marion	23 Jan 2002
Partly the difference between a cult and religion lies in how many people believe in it. Christianity started out as a cult, a small very dedicated group. Sometimes it seems that 'religion' is almost a way of giving its status, or place in a society. If it is broadly accepted, then it gets to be a religion. Cults seem to refer to smaller groups, often with ideas not accepted by the mainstream, and wicca and paganism fit that definition. If you talk about a 'cult movie', it is generally a somewhat different movie with a small but very enthusiastic following. Similarly, some saints have cults, in the sense of a small but devoted following. I have a fundamental Christian friend who says, in complete seriousness, that Catholicism is a cult. Now I think he is mis-using the term to express an opinion, and that happens too.

northsea	25 Jan 2002
In a cult, the following traits are in place: 1)you live in a group with the leader 2)you aren't allowed to interact/socialize with outsiders 3)you aren't allowed to communicate with your family (or it is highly discouraged) 4)you are told what to believe on an almost daily basis 5)you are told that only (select) members of the cult will reach the ultimate goal 6)you may not be allowed to leave the cult. I've heard it said that the difference between a religion and a cult is "about 100 years" meaning that new religions are frowned-upon. As you mentioned, many old religions are called cults, too. Tommy

Diana	25 Jan 2002
Quote: Tommy (25 Jan, 2002 20:06): In a cult, the following traits are in place: Tommy Tommy, I beg to disagree. What you are describing is what is today considered as a "sect", not a "cult". No hard feelings meant, though.

northsea	25 Jan 2002
Diana: the description I gave could possibly be called a sect or a cult according to Major Tom's dictionary. Is a cult a type of sect? ??? Tommy

Pollux	25 Jan 2002
IMHO... A Religion has got 1) a BOOK (Bible, Coranus... Veda...) 2) a place elected (La Mecca, Città del Vaticano, Jerusalem...) 3) a hierarchy (Pope/Chief and cardinals and bishops and so on, more or less the same in all religions) 4) Lots of stuff I can't think of ;p A cult is mine, yours Kiama, something I define and cut myself. It's a tailor made suit! ;D CULT VS RELIGION 4:0

purplelady	25 Jan 2002
Quote: Diana (24 Jan, 2002 01:10): if one accepts the definition of a sect which includes a charismatic leader, very strict rules and more than likely, a lot of material sacrifices (i.e. money). This would be very close to my definition of a cult. Whether dictionary definition correct-it is my Idea of a "cult". With emphasis on the charasmatic leader. I don't think they Have to live together as a group. I once had a good friend who was a member of a cult. My friend lived here in colorado. The cult and it's female leader live on a compound in northern montana , I believe. I won't mention names, but the leader of the group writes books that I've seen in the metaphysical section of bookstores . This woman supposedly gave birth to a baby at age 60. According to her followers she is the reincarnation of every female goddess you can think of and then some! She tells her followers who to vote for in elections. Apparently my friend called this woman often , and her goal in life was to give her LOTS of money , so they could build bomb shelters up there , I guess. In fact , every member , living in montana or not , was supposed to raise thousands of dollars so their own bomb shelter up there could be built. She tried to indoctrinate me into the cult. Uh-uh! It bothered me how they followed this woman and her word blindly. To me , wicca and paganism differ than this because you don't have to follow anyone else's directions or words, or raise lots of money for them. You get to think for yourself , not have a leader to do it for you.

Kiama	25 Jan 2002
Quote: Pollux (26 Jan, 2002 05:48): IMHO... A Religion has got 1) a BOOK (Bible, Coranus... Veda...) 2) a place elected (La Mecca, Città del Vaticano, Jerusalem...) 3) a hierarchy (Pope/Chief and cardinals and bishops and so on, more or less the same in all religions) 4) Lots of stuff I can't think of ;p So, this automatically makes Buddhism, Wicca, any form of Paganism not a religion? I disagree with this, cuz they are all legally considered as religions. And I see them as religions too. I'm not having a go at you though, don't ake this the wrong way: I'm just pointing out that some religions don't have a holy book, or a heirarchy. Kiama

Pollux	25 Jan 2002
Well, my point is fading... Actually, I can't think of Buddhism and Wicca as religions, really. There's no negative connotation in this, I want to clear. It's only that a Religion... feels so stuffy! :D Although I undestood my path is Wicca, I like to consider it's mixed with a scent of Buddhism and a veil of induism too (at least for my pantheon! ;p ). But, being an eclectic, I can't think of mine as of a religion. And, I'm happier to think of it as a cult, probably. ;D To me, religion implies political power, control, organization, hierarchy, dogmas, teaching "catechismo" - which should be "cathecazing" ??? - formality, liturgy... :( If Wicca is a cult to someone, I maybe don't care. :p to them It's MY path, after all! ;P

Diana	26 Jan 2002
Interesting to realise once again how one word can have different connotations for different people. Shows how important it is to make sure that we know what the other person is talking about. Here's what I just found in my Oxford Dictionary of World Religions. quote - Academics sometimes contrast cults with sects on the grounds that the former are more alienated from traditional religions than the latter; or that cults are more innovatory - unquote. quote - sects are ... short-lived and transient, either disappearing or becoming a denomination with more stable structure and organisation - unquote

Diana	26 Jan 2002
Quote: Tommy (26 Jan, 2002 04:18): Diana: the description I gave could possibly be called a sect or a cult according to Major Tom's dictionary. Is a cult a type of sect? ??? Tommy Tommy, the above post was written after reading your post. The line seems to be very thinly drawn, doesn't it?

cayacia	26 Jan 2002
I think I've pretty much given up on religion. Anyone ever heard of CSI? Anyway, the boss of the whole unit, Grism, once told this preacher who accused him of not believeing in God that it wasn't that he didn't believe in God, it was that he didn't believe in religion. I was like "THAT'S IT!!!!!! THAT'S HOW I FEEL". Yeah, so, after hearing that character on a TV show say it I understood it for myself and now I get it. SOrry if it's not right on topic. I just like that story. \^_^

Kaleidoscope Eyes	03 Feb 2002
Quote: Marion (24 Jan, 2002 08:16): I have a fundamental Christian friend who says, in complete seriousness, that Catholicism is a cult. Had to laugh at that one. I have met my share of the Catholic-hating fundamentalists... a bizarre Christian cult if ever there was one!

kayne	04 Feb 2002
My definition of a cult involves brain washing and mindless following... When someone chooses to give up their free will to follow someone/something then they are involved in a cult. I think a cult is defined more by the actions of those involved. By this definition a group of nuns [what is the collective noun for this?] could be in a cult as could 'groupies' following a band all over the country... 8-) K

melikka	06 Feb 2002
Quote: Kiama (23 Jan, 2002 21:57): However, I came across some bits about Druidry and Wicca, and according to this book they are both cults! >( I know this is probably gonna boil down to definitions, but I just wana examine some of the similarites between religion and 'cults'. So far, they are very similar. So, what distinguishes a religion from a cult? Kiama ??? Hi there Kiama (I just love your name by the way!) the way I see it is as follows; the word "cult" is derived from the word "occult" which means ' hidden, the unknown, maybe even something magical'. Seeing that spirituality (be it Wiccan or the search for oneself, or anything that does not fit into the way of the church) cannot be explained in plain language, sometimes not even percieved in the eyes of people who lived their whole life according to a certain belief, they tend to think it is the work of the (devil?). :D It is only because it is unknown, dark, but after the darkness always comes the light (day/night). I guess what I'm trying to say is that the church (which only started after Jesus's birth) is something of the Picean age and seeing that we are now entering the Aquarius age things are becoming more individual. People are starting to look INSIDE of themselves for answers and not OUTSIDE themselves. if god made us as a reflection of Himself, isn't it INSIDE of ourselves (the only place he truly resides, and not in a building) where we can find him? Anyway I could go on for hours here but would take up to much space. Don't forget now, this is a view from my reality (by the way I was also bought up with the bible, till I started searching for answers) :-)

Pollux	06 Feb 2002
[quote]melikka (06 Feb, 2002 20:12): Quote: Kiama (23 Jan, 2002 21:57): I guess what I'm trying to say is that the church (which only started after Jesus's birth) is something of the Picean age and seeing that we are now entering the Aquarius age things are becoming more individual. People are starting to look INSIDE of themselves for answers and not OUTSIDE themselves. :-) HEY! That is SOMETHING!!! My Congratulations!!! That mentioning the Aquarian Age is somewhat enlightening!!! :-) I was thinking about that too. The Aquarian Age is an age of tolerance and spirituality, and that is why we now can say to be witches without fear of being put to bonefires and roasted!!! (I don't want debate about Witch/Pagan/Wiccan or Witch's hunt, that was just an exemplificative exageration. thanx. :-) ) This is an era of freedom, in which the freaking sectism and fundamentalism of the Pisces is going to fade - at least, we all should hope so! ;-) That of Pisces is a deep-rooted and particular kind of religiosity - this is just what they symbolise in the Zodiac, religion, faith, sectism, working "hidden" or undercover... The Aquarian is an entirely different kettle of f... of holy water! :-)

Kiama	06 Feb 2002
Quote: melikka (06 Feb, 2002 20:12): People are starting to look INSIDE of themselves for answers and not OUTSIDE themselves. if god made us as a reflection of Himself, isn't it INSIDE of ourselves (the only place he truly resides, and not in a building) where we can find him? Actually, something to back what you just said up: "These are the words of the Living Christ, Whoever hears them shall not taste death: The Kingdom of God is within you, And all around you. Not within buildings of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood, and you will find me, Lift a stone, and there I am." -Gospel of St Thomas, a Gnostic gospel found near the Nag Hammadi caves. It has been deemed heretical by the Catholic Church, whereas scholars agree that it is the closest account of the actual words of the Christ. Kiama

Major Tom	06 Feb 2002
Quote: Kiama (07 Feb, 2002 00:12): Quote: melikka (06 Feb, 2002 20:12): People are starting to look INSIDE of themselves for answers and not OUTSIDE themselves. if god made us as a reflection of Himself, isn't it INSIDE of ourselves (the only place he truly resides, and not in a building) where we can find him? "These are the words of the Living Christ, Whoever hears them shall not taste death: The Kingdom of God is within you, And all around you. Not within buildings of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood, and you will find me, Lift a stone, and there I am." -Gospel of St Thomas Kiama The Kingdom of God is everything. I was raised a Christian too. }>

Kiama	06 Feb 2002
Thought you might like that one, Major! Kiama

Kiama	06 Feb 2002
Quote: Major Tom (07 Feb, 2002 03:01): The Kingdom of God is everything. I was raised a Christian too. }> I thought you might like that one, Major! ;p Kiama

The Cult and Religion- What's the difference? thread was originally posted on 23 Jan 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.