haunting anxiety

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 01 Jan 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

cayacia	01 Jan 2002
Hey guys. I didn't really know where to post about this one but I figured since I post in here the most it would have to do. I hope no one minds a long story but I need to get this out there. In case some of you havn't noticed, I have a friend named Josh that has probably been one of the most influential people in my life. He was also the one who gave me an outlet into the spiritual journey I've been going on the last four or so months. Anyway, I've actually known Josh for well over a year now because we had English together last year. I've always felt this closeness to him for no reason and before I got to know him really well this last summer I went thorugh a very painful period of trying to figure out why it was so important for me to pursue someone I didn't even know very well. (I had a crush on him. I hate that word, but that's what you call it, I guess) You can't understand what it is to try and give up on getting to know someone that won't let you get close to them. Expecially when you don't know why it's so damn important. You see, other than a couple of times, I couldn't get together with him outside of school to get to know him. He was distant. Anyway, I got to know him better this summer because after a month and a half of not thinking of him at all, I had a dream about him. It was really confusing because I thought at that point I was over him and that I could move on. I knew someone was trying to tell me something, so I gave him a call and things went on from there. We hit it off immediately and became very close (but only as friends :( ) and eventually I mentioned my interest in the Tarot. He gave me one of his old decks and then I was offically his protoge'. After school started I had already fallen for him again only this time it felt a lot more real. I talked with a lot of my friends and they all suported me to tell him how I felt. Quite nervously I managed to tell him and we had a talk about it. Of course, he already knew because he's quite perceptive. However, he told me that because of past relationships he wasn't ready for another one and he told me to give it a few months. Best of all, he told me he would help me through it (because he obviously knew the pain of not getting what you want in these cases) I managed to ask him how he felt about me and he told me that he felt like i was 'one of his pack' as in he'd known me in a former life, and that that should mean something to me. It strange that I've been thinking about that since and I'd had that feeling before but had always brushed it off as nonsense. Anyway, (again) it's been quite some times since then. We're closer than ever, however he is a very hands-off teacher and I don't know if that's really what he is suposed to be for me. Or if that's what I want from him exclusively (scratch that, I know I want him as something more). I do readings regularly to see a further perspective of what is going on between us because I get very depressed at times when I don't understand what is going on. And when I worry that he is sick of me or annoyed by me (of course worry and reason battle this one out endlessly). And they're usually quite positive! I just always have that anxiety. So...do I really have a question here? I know I had one when I planned to post this. And I guaruntee I've left something out. I guess I would just like some insight. Oh, now I remember. When I'm not around him I think about him quite a lot. It becomes frustrating at times and I think it's partially what triggers a bout of depression. It's also when I start having doubts about what we are and if we could ever be anything more. Does anyone have a suggestion that could control it? I'm sure a lot of things I've tried (like doing something that won't remind me of him....etc.) Thanks for letting me chew your ears off!

Kiama	02 Jan 2002
This sounds very familiar! I went through all this about twoyears ago with a guy called Matthew. It really was a mess. And to top it all off, he fancied me, I fancied him, but we never actually got together! Its frustrating, I know... All this for me lasted about 2 years, and even now, when I've been in a steady relationship with my boyfriend for nearly ten months, I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I had got together with Matthew... But I'll never know. My advice to you, and you don't have to take it, cuz it may be crap, is... Not onlt let him teach you, but teac him aswell! I'm sure there is alot of stuff you could help him with. Teach each other! That's a great basis for a relationship, and you'll find that teaching someone else helps you learn it even better! Why not sit down with him and discuss each Tarot card together, giving your opinions of it, what you think it means, whether or not you like it, etc.. You'd have alot of fun too! Explore other things aswell, expand your horizons together. Research new things tht you guys haven't looked at before, then discuss them, nd research some more. My guess is that you both hve so much to learn from each other and give to each other. My second piece of advice is try not to get depressed about his. I know this is difficult, but in the end, the 'chasing' part of a relationship should be quite fun! Just be the best you can, and show this guy how wonderful you really are. He probably already knows, but is hesitant. Like you said, he wants some time-out. As for him being distant, I have always found that distant and closed-up people have a small chink in their armour somewhere, just waiting for a nice person to come along and open up a bit further... Draw them out of their shell, and show them how nice it is to be vulnerable. Anyway, I may have rambled on pointlessly for too long. But I know what you are going through. 17 is a difficult age I think. I mean, here in England, 17 is the 'on the brink' age. We can do most things, but not the important things like vote, or the things we do illegally now, like drink alcohol.... We are made to make such tough decisions about the rest of our lives (University, relationships, sex, etc..) but are not given credit for having responsibility, and are watched with eagle eyes by our over-protective parents. For some, hormones are still rampant, and we haven't quite come to terms with our developing bodies yet. Its like a war zone inside our minds! But the best bit of all this, is when you merge from this transitional stage, like a gorgeous butterfly from an ugly cocoon. And you'll look back on all this and smile. Kiama

fairyhedgehog	02 Jan 2002
hi cayacia, I really feel for you, this such a hard thing to be living with. I don't have any advice to offer though, so I'm glad kiama stepped in :) Quote: 17 is a difficult age I think. I mean, here in England, 17 is the 'on the brink' age. We can do mot things, but not th importantthings like vote, or the things we do illegally now, like drink alcohol.... We are made to make such tough decisions about the rest of our lives (University, relationships, sex, etc..) but are not given credit for having responsibility and are watched with eagle eyes by our over-protective parents. For some, hormones are still rampant, and we haven't quite come to terms with our developing bodies yet. Its like a war zone inside out minds! But the best bit of all this, is when you merge from this transitional stage, like a gorgeous butterfly from an ugly cocoon. And you'll look back on all this and smile. This is spot on, Kiama. I'd like to copy this for future use. Would you mind, and if I use this how would you like to be credited with it? All the best, FH

truthsayer	02 Jan 2002
i think desiring a relationship(whether it be friendship or otherwise) w/ someone who has a thick armor is universal--no matter what your age. i can really relate to everything you said, cayacia. it brings so many things to mind. there was the guy i dated for 3 years who admitted he could never love me but i relentlessly pursued him b/c i couldn't believe what he said. i eventually had to end the relationship cold turkey b/c it was devasting my self confidence and affecting my whole life. even tho i've been in a successful relationship 13 years & happily married, i still find myself thinking about him and wondering why do i still have those obsessive longings to talk to him again. i think we had some kind of past life connection. it's the only thing that makes sense to me. i think your description of a haunting anxiety is so appropo. when i was new in town 15 years ago, i didn't have anyone to talk to and was maddeningly lonely. i met a woman who had similar interests to mine in art, lit, etc. i desperately wanted and needed a friend so i tried to make friends w/ her. she held me at arm's length. this puzzled me but i continued to invite her to things and call her occasionally. for some reason i couldn't let it drop. slowly she warmed up to me over the course of 2 years. then i found out why she held back--she was gay and didn't want me to know b/c i'm straight. she was afraid i'd reject her. she'd also had some very abusive relationships and was feeling very gun shy. it didn't matter to me that she was gay as i am secure in my sexuality and really wanted her as a friend. after 8 years she got really sick and began w/drawing from all her friendships. i didn't want to believe she'd reject me, too but she did. i was having serious medical probs myself at the time and i think i became too emotionally needy for her during a time she was emotionally drained by her own probs. during those years i made the mistake of having few social contacts other than her and my husband. this made the end of the friendship more devatating. i feel certain we were linked by a past life also. end pt. 1

truthsayer	02 Jan 2002
so my advice is no matter how compelling this guy is to you, please don't socially isolate yourself to him. do keep busy w/ activities w/ other ppl. do try to get your mind off of him. believe me, i know too well how a relationship can be like a drug. every nice thing the other person does reinforces the compulsion. every mean or neutral thing hurts like hades. it's tempting to allow yourself to become overly vulnerable to such a person and give him/her too much sensitive info. keep in mind there is a reason this person is w/drawn. remember this isn't about you. if you experience rejection, then somehow you've participated unwittingly in this person's inner drama that allows him to justify hurting ppl to shut them out. you deserve far better treatment than that. you haven't done anything wrong. you've probably exposed a chink in this person's armor that he's unwilling or unable to allow to become vulnerable. just back off and count to 100...remember the issue at hand is about him--you're just happen to be there. since those experiences, i tend to shy away from ppl who wear emotional armor. it's just too painful to go there again. maybe i've started wearing some myself. i know i'm unwilling to be vulnerable to someone as quickly as i once did. i realize that some ppl just aren's safe no matter how s/he fascinates me. to have a long lasting intimate friendship w/ someone is a treasure beyond words but it takes 2 ppl willing to share for it to work. my hubby and i aren't a match made in heaven but we've worked hard to make it work. the 1st 5 or more years of our relationship he wore emotional armor but i sensed he did this b/c he was afraid of losing me to another man. his first wife left him for another man but he admitted the story to me and i wasn't left guessing. i knew he loved me but was afraid to trust. so i knew the relationship was viable and w/ time and effort we had a chance to make it. he never kept deep dark secrets about his past from me so i could relax even tho i knew he feared vulnerability. today he's able to be vulnerable w/ me to a vaster degree. i know he'll never be able to completely let down the armor but that's okay. i know he trusts me and i accept him for who he is--warts and all. :)

tarotbear	02 Jan 2002
oooops! Thought this was a thread about ghosts..... Having been in your situation too many times in the past, I have developed a knack to just come out and ask right at the beginning and get it out in the open. This is not to say that I don't choose my words carefully, but hoping and praying that 'something' will happen when there is nothing there TO happen will only drive you mad in the long run. One man I was dating steadily was kind and supportive. When my landlord asked me to move, he helped me many weekends moving my stuff--but never helped me move it to his house, which is where I was expecting to be. When I finally asked why, considering we had a 'decent' relationship going, he said he wasn't ready to commit. Our relationship and friendship ended soon after that. One of the reasons we started dating is that he was looking for a steady relationship.

Kiama	02 Jan 2002
Quote: fairyhedgehog (02 Jan, 2002 23:30): This is spot on, Kiama. I'd like to copy this for future use. Would you mind, and if I use this how would you like to be credited with it? All the best, FH Sure you can use it! I'm gonna go back and correct my erratic typos first though. After that, just put my name below it as 'Kiama'. Or if you want something more profesional (I see you're a counsellor, so I guessed you might be using it in tie with that) you can put 'Kim Huggens'. Include my age if you want to give it a bit of authority! Hee hee... Kiama

cayacia	02 Jan 2002
thanks a lot guys. your stories and suggestions are helpful. I'm feeling better today ^_^

fairyhedgehog	03 Jan 2002
Hi cayacia, I'm glad to hear you're feeling a bit better today. I hope it's the beginning of an upward path for you :) Kiama - Thanks :) I have no clear idea what I'll use this for at present but if it ends up on my website, I could maybe attribute it as [copyright sign] Kiama (or Kim Huggens, it's up to you) 2002. I'm not sure how you give the provenance of stuff that has appeared on the web -it's not exactly 'unpublished work' so I'm not sure what the form is. I just don't want to plagiarise your stuff :) All the best And Happy New Year to everyone, FH

cayacia	10 Jan 2002
hey guys. I feel awful again. This time it's somewhat of a calling that I don't know how to deal with it. Yesterday Josh gave me a reading because I've been feeling awful still and it's been an ongoing thing since last year. I haven't been myself (expecially lately) and I've been really irritable and been yelling at people for no reason. Anyway, he came up with "trying too hard" and "back off" a lot in the reading but he was saying in the context of searching for my center in spirituality; as though I have been searching too hard and that if I back off it will come to me natrually. However, knowing how much I needed to know what to do with him I tried in my very weak unexperience way to concentrate on that subject and the same replies came up. I have a strong feeling that I am trying to hard on both accounts. Searching for my guides etc. I can deal with, but backing off with Josh is something I don't know if I am capeable of. I really do fear that I'm going to loose him. Especially because he is a junior and i'm a seinor and when i graduate i'm afraid I won't see much of him for a year if we're "just friends", even though way back when I told him how I felt about him he reassured me that we were going to the same college. So I don't know what to do. I'm so scared that if I back off -or as my friend Missy suggested: play hard to get for a while-that we'll grow apart or even worse, he's been growing as far as other relationships go and I'm afraid one of those other girls that are around him sometimes will "steal" him away. (It's a dumb, teenage worry, I know. But I really can't help them). Well, thanks for letting me go on a tangent again. I really probably should be posting this stuff on a teen site (bleh) but I feel a lot more at home here ^_^. Besides, he has so much to do with me spiritually, the people in the "teen" forums don't really understand the whole picture. With great love,

Kiama	11 Jan 2002
Oh, Cayacia, honey.... I know its difficult, but try and see yourself as equal to Josh, not just as the grl who really fancies him but doesn't stand much of a chance. Personally, I think you do stand a chance agains these other girls: With you, Josh can share spirtuality, wich is a vey important thing. Can he share this with the others? About the Tarot reading: Maybe it would be best (And more trustworthy) if you did a reading for yourself, not get Josh to do one. However, I don't think that backing off will lose Josh. Maybe if you leave the chasing thing out for a bit, (At least, openly. In your mind you can do whatever you want) and just focus on enjoying spending time with him as an equal and friend, he might begin to realise that he deserves such a wonderful person as you. Anyway, good luck! (And if none of this works, gimme Josh's email addy, and I'l give him a good telling off ;p ) Kiama

Diana	11 Jan 2002
[quote]cayacia (11 Jan, 2002 10:12): hey guys. I feel awful again. Cayacia, You're welcome to write about all your thoughts - why go on a teen forum when you've got so many friends on this one? Wow, you wake up memories in my mind which stir up deep emotions. It reminds me of a story in my life when I was a teenager. Sweetpea, I could probably write a book on this whole scene. I think I know how you feel. But for the moment, I just want to share with you the first thing that came into my mind which is : Don't "do" anything. What I mean is, don't play hard to get, don't play easy to get, don't play the student versus the teacher, don't play anything at all. BE YOURSELF!! Just wake up every morning knowing with a certainty that you are as precious as any other drop of water in the ocean, you are as beautiful as any petal on any rose, you are as important as any stone that has been used to build any castle. You are everyone's equal. Just be yourself and Josh and everyone will love you the way you are. Because YOU ARE UNIQUE and no-one can replace you in this world. Then there's something practical and simple you can do called "the two cocoons". On a piece of paper, you draw two circles. In the first circle, you write your name. On the second piece of paper, you write the name of whatever you are trying to let go of, in this case Josh. THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO LET GO OF HIM LITERALLY, just whatever is causing any pain in the relationship. (You could for example write "money" if you're struggling financially, or as my ten-year old son wrote "grammar" when he was having problems with his grammar rules.) These two circles are cocoons. Then you draw a line joining the two circles. Then you say aloud "I (your name) let go of (Josh, grammar, money, or whatever). And then you cut the line (which represents the ombilical cord) with scissors or by tearing it. Then you must burn the two pieces of paper while saying your sentence again. The higher the flame, the better you've done the exercice. Burn the pieces of paper to ash. This exercice allows you to symbolically cut yourself off from any bad energies in the particular relationship. Love from me

cayacia	11 Jan 2002
Kaima: I might have to take you up on that someday if it comes down to it. A lot of his friends (that are my friends too) think he's just stupid and there are days I wish someone would try to talk some sense into him (because it's worth more hearing it from someone other than me, I'm sure) Diana: You make me cry! Happy tears tho... You are so very right about doing anything. I am always worrying about what he'll think if I call him two days in a row or try to talk to him too much online. I'm so scared of being a pest, so afraid that I'm not as important to him as he is to me. So you're right. This is probably still going to be a pain in the eema. I'm going to the that cocoon thing soon. I had a wonderful school teacher of mine one tell me I should make a list of everything I would want in a "couple" type of relationship with him and I never did it. I'm a baaaad girl. Much love,

amyel	12 Jan 2002
Wow. This brings back memoires, and some not so long ago! Cayacia, let me tell you a story. This happened to me. About 6 months before I met my husband, I didn't have a date in 3 years. I didn't even get noticed at a bar with my other single girlfriends - they got all the attention. It was very hard for awhile. It was about this time I really got into Tarot. Gradually, over the course of a year, I realized I kinda liked not being commited to a relationship. I liked being able to do my own thing. I liked having a wide circle of friends - male & female, straight and gay. After about 2 years of no dates, I realized I liked my life and I was comfortable with where I was. More importantly, I realized I liked me. And finally, I realized that I didn't need anyone to complete me. Tarot helped me realize that the harder I looked, the more I unconsciously pushed away the "right' people & pulled in the wrong people. So - and this was a struggle, let me tell you - I made a conscious decision to accept the people who came into my life for what they were and accept the gift that they offered. I think my friends had a tiny celebration when I had my first date after 3 years...and before I finally met my husband, I was dating (strictly so - no hanky panky) three guys at once. I say it was because I stopped trying so hard. I stopped looking for someone else to complete me - because I recognized only I could ever do that. During this time, I had a friend who was in a similar place as me. I tried to explain to her that she had to stop looking so hard, learn to be happy with herself and who she was, recognize her own strengths (and weaknesses) and that love would come to her. The problem was, she *thought* she was doing all these things, but she missed the deeper lesson: letting go in order to get someone to love you isn't what it's all about. You just have to let go. Period. She, too, gradually came to realize this and when she did - she met the man she married. Love comes in many forms. Sometimes the deepest loves are those of friends. Josh is obviously having an important impact on your life. Have faith in the fact that he is in your life for a reason. It might not be the reason you want right now. Don't play games with him. Just let him be him. It isn't easy to love someone who doesn't return that love. I went through myself when I was in my mid 20's. I was completely besotted with a guy. But he wasn't with me. And you know what - almost 15 years later, we are still great friends, and sometimes, I have to remind myself that a relationship with him would not have lasted and I would have lost his friendship - and ultimately, his friendship has been one of the most sustaining to me over the years. That was the reason, I think, he came into my life. Try to find some peace within yourself. The cards Josh laid out clearly are trying to give you an important message. You may not like the message, because you want more, but if Josh is truly as important to you as you say, the result of continuing to push and not back off could have a negative affect. But don;t do these things in an attempt to "get Josh". Do this because perhaps this is the lesson you need right now.

cayacia	13 Jan 2002
Amyel you are a God-send. I almost made such a mistake today and thank God he wasn't home 10 minutes ago when I gave him a call. I'd made up my mind that I was going to talk to him about this and now comeing here and reading what you said I know it probably would have been a mistake. This is going to be so hard for me and I find it difficult to immerse myself in something else that will allow me to get him off my mind so that I can just...relieve myself of it for a while. My anxieties with him combined with the fact that I missed my college class today did not bode well in my emotional pool. Thanks everyone,

cayacia	15 Jan 2002
Diana-your "two cocoons" idea has been helping a lot. My worries aren't totally gone, but I've been feeling a lot less pressured. It's only been two days but it's been better. I feel a little guilty. For the past few weeks he was sick and then he's been telling me and everyone else that he hadn't slept in (as of today) seven days. I didn't believe him and I hated that feeling, but it just didn't seem possible for someone to function that way. I asked him today if he hadn't slept at all and he said yes, and that it was something that happens every year to him and the doctors don't know why. I know that he has problems with insomnia but I feel kinda bad that I thought he was lying. And I know that this whole not sleeping thing has been effecting his personality and I've been getting weird feelings from him and so it triggers my worry. It sucks, doesn't it?

amyel	15 Jan 2002
Yes, it sucks. A lesson I have just recently learned - well, accepted at any rate - is that all that happens is not a result of ME. I have to keep reminding myself that "the world does not revolve around me". Sigh. I also have a friend who every year goes through a cycle where she can not sleep for days and weeks on end. Like you, I didn't actually believe that she didn't sleep, but last year, after seeing her during one of her bouts, she looked so awful - so truly run down - and listening to her try to speak but just not really able to - I rethought that. And her husband confirms it. Like your friend, my friend says the doctors don't know why. One year, she actually was admitted to hospital and they induced sleep. I don't know how - probably drugs, but she said the effects of the inducment were worse then feeling like the waking dead, so she refuses to try it any more. Interestingly, she said recently that she decided if she isn't going to be able to sleep during these times, she's going to make the best of it and be productive. She finds that eventually, this calms her mind and she manages to get some sleep. She also says that when she finally does get sleep, it's almost as if she has to retrain herself how to sleep, that it is a valuable thing. So she starts with an hour or two, and then progresses from there. Ultimately, she says that this technique stops at about the 3 or 4 hour mark and then she sleeps for 15 - 20 hours on end, and that's it for that year - she's back to a "normal" sleep cycle.

tarotbear	16 Jan 2002
I like the 'Two Cocoons' ritual. Will have to rememeber that one for future reference.

purplelady	16 Jan 2002
Have not really heard of the extreme insomnia you are describing.However , I have suffered from insomnia occasionally for as long as I can remember. It has to be one of the most awful things! Although it is Much better since I quit smoking! Last night , though , I was wide awake until 4:30 AM for no known reason!

cayacia	16 Jan 2002
*GASP* ( really gasped, too) Purplelady! *Both* of his parent smoke and he always smells like it. Thank God he doesn't but still, I always come out of there smelling like smoke! And they're in such a little house too...Well, my suspicions' peaked.

purplelady	18 Jan 2002
Isn't it a drag?! I can handle it if I'm near someone who has an Occasional smoke. But being near someone who has smoked 10 in the last 2 hours , or being surrounded by 4 smokers all night , it really gets to me anymore.

cayacia	18 Jan 2002
hang in there, purplelady, mind over matter and all that jazz. ^_^

The haunting anxiety thread was originally posted on 01 Jan 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.