GM Food and Crops

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Feb 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	18 Feb 2002
So, what is your view of genetically modifying food, partiularly crops? Kiama

Pollux	18 Feb 2002
This is my view: :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( I "happen" to belong to a family of paesants, so I know what it means to eat home-grown vegetables, fruits and nuts. As for meat, the same applies: we buy it at slaughterers (does this exists?), most of times friends or even relatives, who we know for sure that brought their animals up sound and healthy. Actually, I don't eat meat now - since last October. People keeps saying that OGMs are not harmful. That, provided they won't do you any better than normal food, surely they won't harm - they do you nothing, in the worst case. All the same, I get so saddened when I think about OGMs! :'( "Genetic Modification" is something that has always existed at a certain extent - I'm son of paesants *LOL*- as plants being particularly fructuous or animals particularly fecund were favoured in temrs of procretion... but the methods are quite different!!! One thing is to make a Cow and an Ox mate - even "forcing" them to; quite another is to decide what piece of DNA keep, what others insert, what trash... :'( This community is filled with Pagans, Wiccans and the like: I think no one can sympathise to such playing and tampering with Nature, with Gaia herself... :( I mean: Gaia and Nature have such great potential of evolution and improvement. Why don't we let they go their own way, instead of forcing and speeding things up exceedingly? Of course, there are various application that are very useful for man: for example, insuline-producing cells of pigs, cell-injections to diabetes and so on... But, please, read better Kiama's topic: it's "FOOD AND CROPS"! So don't bother me! :p

Kiama	18 Feb 2002
Oky then, I'll play devils advocate... It is possible to stop the problem of world hungr with GM crops and food. The Third World would benefit from the increase in crop yields... Let's debate this a bit.... But, just for the record, I'm not sure whether or not I agree with GM crops. On one hand I like the idea of preventing world hunger, etc etc, but on the other hand, I kinda see it as tampring ith Nature. And we don't fully know the risks involved. But then, are we just being paranoid? Surely Fortune favours the brave..? Kiama PS- My Granny used to own her own mini orchard. The apples were small, and there were very few of them, but they were MUCH better than the ones in the shops, which had all these chemcal additives and growth stimulants. I can still taste thi flavour, and juiciness.... *Kiama sighs*

faunabay	18 Feb 2002
It would be nice to feed the world's hungry. But doing it this way is essentially feeding them with poison. Is that a good thing to do??????

Pollux	18 Feb 2002
They'll be fed with Junk. I don't think it's a serious way to tackle with it. Do you know how much food is thrown or destroyed or put to waste in the UE just because this way prices are not decreased too much? Why don't they ("they" is to generic, but I don't know who to appoint...) put it to "better use" feeding Africa, India and all? Pfiuu.... I'm gappy someone simpathises with me. ;p Kiama: NO WAY! My uncle's cauliflower is the best on earth! :-) P.S. Not to mention our WINE and SPUMANTE !!! :D

Kiama	18 Feb 2002
Quote: faunabay (19 Feb, 2002 02:53): It would be nice to feed the world's hungry. But doing it this way is essentially feeding them with poison. Where's your proof? I'm not being mean or nasty here, and I mean this in the best posible way, but saying this wouldn't stand up very well in a debate... Please could you explain to me why we would be feeding them with poison? Kiama

Greenman	18 Feb 2002
it's not just about stimulating growth or higher yields. they are altering foods with the idea of modifying traits in the consumer as well. so far with only 'good intent' perhaps, but what technology has EVER not been twisted from it's original purpose? i see this as a timebomb. tomatos are spliced with fish genes! this to make them stay fresh longer. Mother Nature doesn't make mistakes. if the tomatos were supposed to have fish genes, they'd have them naturally. and the fact that they last longer on the shelf doesn't make them 'fresh'. they just haven't started to rot yet. and what kind of possibly untreatable diseases might this unleash? maybe nothing, but WE DON'T KNOW YET! when the first atomic bomb was detonated, it wasn't known for certain that the chain reaction would end. there was a small possibilty that the entire atmosphere would be ripped away, killing all life on Earth. but it was a small chance, so they lit that sucker up anyway! talk about your mad scientists. we got lucky then. will our luck hold out? Monsanto has developed a seed that will only sprout when fertilized with a certain chemical fertilizer that (of course) they control! this (to my mind) flies aginst everything that Paganism is founded upon. the right of the farmer to hold back some of his harvest for seed is the at the root of all agriculture. but now he will have to buy his seed from the Corporation. control the food and you control the world. i don't really believe in the concept of pure evil, but this comes damn close, in my opinion.

JustBlue	18 Feb 2002
My take on Genetically altered crops are this, and it simply just my opinion. I do not like it out of principle. Why, because I feel that manipulating nature, and the reasons for manipulating nature are very dangerous, and I do not think that the reason to push this further are for the common good. To me, it seems like developement and use in this field grow because the corporations want to earn more money. There are surely more than one side in this issue, sadly, I´ve heard stories where genetic modification have been used in very unethcial manners in the third world. My firm belief are that we can end world hunger without the use of genetic modification, the problem lies elsewhere. it lies in the societies, the harmful attitudes of us/them, and self assertion. Take care.

faunabay	18 Feb 2002
Kiama, don't worry I didn't take it the wrong way. You're right though. It wouldn't stand up in a debate. I'm horrible at debating things. I get the idea and thought in my head but can't get the words out. I'm the one that ends up saying...."uh, because!!!" LOL Really though it is just my opinion. I have no scientific proof for my statement. And before I could get back here to see your question, Greenman beat me to it. (whewww!) He stated my opinions better than I could probably. We've already pumped our food with so many chemicals that we need to move away from tampering with it rather than do more of it!!!! More and more people are beginning to buy organic foods! Why??? Because they're seeing benefits in their health by eating less chemically processed foods. And so what is the government trying to do? Make more chemically and genetically altered food. ???

slinky_jo	18 Feb 2002
Well, if I had green fingers, I'd grow my own veges/fruit. But since I'm not, I choose to buy/eat GM free and organic foods when/where-ever I can. Also buy free range eggs (but that's another debate!).

MeeWah	18 Feb 2002
While the feeding of the world's population is supposedly the argument or the heart of the matter, there is something skewered about using chemicals to expedite the growth of foodstuffs. The use of technology & science is a two-edged sword. It begs for responsibility & conscience! As "advanced" as we are purported to be, I cannot believe that non-invasive methods that do not compromise the health of our planet cannot be developed in the quest to increase food production! Think about: the steroids injected into steer/cows destined for slaughter (the animals grow bigger); the antibiotics (specifically tetracycline) injected into the necks of chickens; the chemicals used to "fertilize" the soil & the plants; also to kill the insects that prey on same (they need to eat too)...The list goes on & on. All of the practices in the name of food production affects the basic food chain & beyond, on the simple basis that all are connected. There is a long-term effect--on the health of the planet as a whole in ecological factors. The chemicals pollute the environment on all levels; produce waste material that is not biodegradable & ends up "recycled" through the chain of life. Is it any wonder that so many have or are developing allergies to foods (tainted with chemicals); to their environment (tainted with chemicals)? That certain illnesses are more prevalent now than were years ago, before all the technological & scientific "knowledge"? Granted that some dis-eases of the body have their sources in the human psyche; however, it is obvious that tampering with the food supply at its origins contributes to the unwellness of humanity & so on. There is more awareness now about food quality & its connection to health; hence the proliferation & popularity of "natural" & "organic" foods grown without pesticides or other chemicals.

cayacia	18 Feb 2002
geneticly modified food is not always necissarily done by chemicals. More often than not is it by breeding two "good" plants together to get a "superplant". It is something that humans have been doing for centuries.

New River	18 Feb 2002
like greenman said, "control the food and control the world." that really is what this boils down to. this matter is discussed in the Ishmael books by Daniel Quinn. they are high on my recommended list. love, light and hope, New River

Greenman	19 Feb 2002
Meewah, i agree. you'd think we'd be able to use all this amazing technology to create more noni-nvasive answers to the problem of world hunger. but unfortunately non-invasive = non-profitable, so the big pig corps aren't going to do it. and Cayacia, yes we've been altering plants and livestock through breeding and cross breeding for centuries. but that is NOT the same as splicing animal genes onto plants, or crossing breeds on the genetic level that could NEVER be crossed otherwise. slinky_jo, we buy free range eggs too. since i eat very little meat (and my wife none), the expense of organically produced animal products is not so bad. and organic produce prices have come way down from the old days, thanks to the big grocery companies wanting their piece of the action. but there are humane issues as well. mass chicken 'factories' (because these aren't farms or ranches in any sense) are horrible places. the birds are in cages stacked on top of each other, with their beaks and claws removed to prevent them from pecking each other to death. they crap all over each other, and are so diseased that they HAVE to be pumped full of antibiotics just to keep the meat from being poisonous! anyway, i'm preaching, and a bit off topic, so i'll shut up now!

Kiama	19 Feb 2002
What a wonderful load of responses! But I see there is nobody so far who is FOR GM food... Interesting. It seems that mankind has forgotten just how much we owe Mother Earth, who could just as easily wipe us all out with an earthquake, instead of putting up with us tramping all over Her like we own Her. Where did this attitude come from? I don't know, but its awful. Being a Pagan, my view (I'm no longer sitting on he fence) is that the planet is to be cared for: She provides us with EVERYTHING, and what do we give Her back? Very little. Are we just being ungrateful for what She gives us in the form of food? Methinks so. And the risks are nothing to be sniffed at: They are very real, and almost inevitable, such as super-pests, who grow resistant to th herbicides that GM crops produce, and then eat all the crops, cuz they can't be killed! (This has happened before: Haven't these GM scientists ever read Darwin?) And didn't they take any heed from the Thalidomide incident? Methinks the scientists of today are getting REALLY bored if they have to resort to GM, and cloning a cat! (The cat cloning was recent!) Kiama

The GM Food and Crops thread was originally posted on 18 Feb 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.