after death communication

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 29 Mar 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

lunalafey	29 Mar 2002
Has anyone used tarot to communicate with those passed on? What was your experience? I just recienty picked up a book about ADC's after death communication. The researchers excluded, 'seances, crystal balls, ouiji boards, or other simular devices' The reasoning behind this, 'many religions and other sources... - what ever that is supposed to be-..specifically warn against summoning 'spirits' These sources may think it's wrong, but the end result was as rewarding as any of the other expeirences documented, AND that is what it is really all about, right? I think it's too bad that the reseachers did not consider another CLASS for these types of communication. Here is what happened to me. I lost a soulmate and was longing for some sort of sign/communication. One night while really missing his company and needing his words of wisdom to help me through, I reached for my deck. REWIND There we were sitting on the couch and the conversation took a spiritual turn, so I introduced him to my cards. I put them out the way I do when I want to 'feel' for a card. When I asked him to pick one, he used the same motions I do!!! The card he choose...HONOR 4of pipes, Native American deck. I fell off the couch. In the weeks before this I kept asking him, 'What are your intentions ? "All honorable" he said. When he drew the honor card I was able to let go a little and trust a lot more. FORWARD I reached for my deck, I was home alone so I was able to speak aloud and not bother anyone. I told him that I just wanted him to talk to me, NO question for the cards, just talk to me. I picked 5 cards for this, that was the number of days between our birthdays, ACTUAL days not just days apart on the calander. The first card, HONOR. I fell off the bed. #2 8 strength, pictured is a mountain lion, both of us have mountain lion as one of our animal totems, the constillation, lynx also. Lynx is secrets, there is alot of that surrounding his death.(the lynx from the medicine card deck was the card I drew when I asked about his death) 3rd, 5 of vessles, this is warrior woman. I would get this card alot in my readings, so much that I called it MY card. This was before I knew about significators. #4 card, Maiden= to a page, of shields. This card is a card that I related to and opened me up to a past life.(he is my soulmate) AND the last card, 17 the star. It was a very moving moment. I retired the deck after that.

wigwag	01 Apr 2002
I am glad that you got something from your experience and as you felt positive afterwards then I am sure it was nothing bad. I would warn against "summoning spirits" by using ouija and some of the other methods you suggest. I would say if anyone is going to dabble with this then you must ground yourself (there are a lot of books on how to do this) and also imagine yourself surrounded by a bright light to protect you and keep out any negative influence and only let in positive influences. I myself have never thought of using the tarot cards for this purpose but I am sure it is as valid a way as any other and might give it a go at some point in the future. In your case I think that your friend is guiding or guarding you.

truthsayer	01 Apr 2002
thank you for sharing that luna. it's a very touching story. in fact, my eyes felt a little damp around the lids while reading it. i've had bad experiences w/ ouija and automatic writing. i've never thought about attempting contact w/ deceased loved ones. since i have a ritual w/ a blessings and candles, it might be an interesting way to experiment w/ tarot.

Sam	29 May 2002
that was an amazing story! wow! very emotional!

Zhritza	30 May 2002
I'm guessing that I'm not the only one around here who believes (at least somewhat) in reincarnation. I'm trying to fgure out how that works in conjunction with this; what do you folks think? If you try to contact a lost loved one many years after their death, wouldn't they very likely have moved on to another life by then? If it's shortly after they pass on, that makes some sense if you believe in reincarnation, because there may be a Summerland or the like in which their soul rests for awhile. When I was a young teenager I had a ouija board experience that was definitely legitimate, and my big question about that is, are the spirits being contacted that way stuck in some sort of limbo state? If so, and the spirit in question is a stranger, do we really want to listen to what they have to say? If they haven't moved on, that seems like a bad sign...

Aerin	30 May 2002
I suppose it does depend on your belief system. I went to a talk by someone on Huna recently, and the Hawaiians are big on making sure you cut your links to other people on a frequent basis, and particularly when they are about to die/ do die so as not to hold them back from being where they need to be. That is their belief system. For others, it is different. If someone believes that it is important to guard and protect someone who is still living, perhaps they create some time for their essence to do just that? I have personally never used ouija or any other means of contacting stuff outsise of me since I was about 9 and a friend and I terrified ourselves. Because of that experience (and I've blocked the details) I now keep away - because I think that my beliefs about it could make something bad happen, by leaving me wide open. (Whether open to merely my own thoughts or something outside doesn't matter: it still wouldn't be healthy for me.) If I ever clear that belief, I may look into it again, but at the moment I'm staying well clear. I trust my intuition/ gut feel to let me know if something is right for me. (And I am naturally cautious.) Aerin

wavebreaker	30 May 2002
I've been wondering about the same thing lately. Because I feel as if my grandfather, who died 7 years ago, is still with me a lot of the time as a guide. And just this weekend I was having the exact same discussion about it with a friend: I was wondering whether I was holding him back from moving on. But then I never asked him to come to me, so I see it as his choice to be with me.

aeonx	30 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Qolus I'm guessing that I'm not the only one around here who believes (at least somewhat) in reincarnation. I do believe in reincarnation. I've never accepted the idéa that there is only darkness after death. Quote: I'm trying to fgure out how that works in conjunction with this; what do you folks think? If you try to contact a lost loved one many years after their death, wouldn't they very likely have moved on to another life by then? Spirits move on to another life, another body, if not they've reached what i.e. buddhists call nirvana. I like the sound of that word. :) When a spirit has lived its last life, it returns to God. It won't go back down to earth again to lead a life. However, it can contact people 'down here'. One might as well call them Angels. Quote: If it's shortly after they pass on, that makes some sense if you believe in reincarnation, because there may be a Summerland or the like in which their soul rests for awhile. What may seem like a short time to them, can mean years or even decades for us. I don't think every single soul jumps straight to another body right after death. Some linger longer than others, just like in real life. In my past life, I was floating quite some time before my Guardian Angel reached out His mighty hand and pulled me up. :) Quote: When I was a young teenager I had a ouija board experience that was definitely legitimate, and my big question about that is, are the spirits being contacted that way stuck in some sort of limbo state? If so, and the spirit in question is a stranger, do we really want to listen to what they have to say? If they haven't moved on, that seems like a bad sign... I don't think, again, that them being in this state for some time, hurts them in any way. And, again, time for them are completely different than for us. One day here on Earth may well be one second, or one decade, there. *s* Just my thoughts. :) ~aeonx~

Diana	30 May 2002
Qolus: I don't think one should consider our human sense of linear time when it comes to dealing with things like this. Our sense of time and space are extremely limited - we understand them through dark glasses. To me, there is really no contradiction in contacting a soul who has already reincarnated. The two can exist at the "same time" (I use this expression, for I do not have another). I even believe that it would be possible to contact a soul in what we would call "future" time. I mean, imagine trying to talk to "yourself" in two thousand years time. I do not think it impossible, although I would not have any idea how to go about it.

Zhritza	01 Jun 2002
aeonx and diana, thanks for responding! your points about time being different make sense (i. e.., those ideas feel right to me on a gut level). The idea of our souls existing simultaneously in different time periods is exciting but foreboding. I will have to mull that one over indefinitely, I think...

Red Emma	27 Feb 2003
Qolus, You might like to read "The Nature of Personal Reality" by Jane Roberts. In it, Seth, a 4th century pope, channels fascinating ideas of this concept. One of his ideas is that outside of our own perceptions of time, everything happens at the same "time." So that your past lives co-exist, all together, with your current life. I discovered Jane Roberts' (and Seth's writings) through Marion Weinstein's Book of Shadows. If I remember correctly MS called her BOS, "Earth Magic." Trying to wrap my mind around some of their ideas really kept me up at night. But it's well worth it. I'm almost comfortable with them now. And it's only been three months --- speaking of time. One thing that puzzles me, some spirit guides say that they are off helping other earthlings when we don't need them. But it seems to me that "when" is a time word. In anyone's context. Blessed Be, Red Emma

sagitarian	28 Feb 2003
I have to rewind a bit here from the present. When I was little, I saw people that others didn't see. Not just people, but elements as well as other celestial beings. It made my mom mad, so eventually, when I was playing with my friends, and she'd ask, who are you talking to? I told her, no one mom, just pretending. The truth upset her, perhaps scared her. Years later, I didn't see them any more, but I could still hear them intuitively. They would tell me things, let me see things in the not so distance future and past. If I wanted to know something about someone, I knew it with little effort (usually). After I "realized" what was going on, it scared me, and I wanted it all gone. Shortly after this, I started looking into religions and at one point (on more then just one occasion) I told the Gods that be, take this away, I don't want it. Truthfully, I was scared of it. Over the years, I still heard them, still saw them out of the corner of my eye, still heard them intuitively if I wanted to listen (but I didn't). I picked up tarot cards and for a short period of time, worked at a metaphysical shop with others like me. I exchanged a reading with another woman, and she told me that I was a natural medium. A few years later, the same message was told to me by another friend of mine. I've been reading cards for a little over 10 years now. As of late, I'm starting to be more comfortable with "the other side", and beginning to open myself up to the spirits, to my "nature" of being a medium. A few days ago, a card opened up a doorway for a spirit to come through for a friend of mine that I was doing a reading for. She knew right away who it was, and all though it didn't mean the world to her to hear from him, she was happy to know that he was in a good place and his message was of love. Later on that night, two other spirits (related to the family) came through and spoke to me. I do believe that the cards can open up that doorway to easily speak to those on the other side. This is such a delicate issue. To summon some one in particular, well, that may not always be the best thing to do. If you "feel" the person around you, then there's no summoning, it's communicating to the spirit and why he/she is still around. Using cards to open up that communication I think is a wonderful avenue, but I am against "summoning" spirits, at least right now I am b/c I don't know enough about what I am doing as a medium to feel comfortable with calling some one in particular. Now to address the other post that so many people have addressed... Yes, I agree, that our "time" has no relevance to their "time". If a spirit is lingering around, then it's usually b/c it still has something to say before moving on, or it's not ready to go yet as they are too attached to this world, and their loved ones. I know if I were to die today, it would take some time for me to truly leave my family, especially, my children. I believe in reincarnation, but it may not necessairly be in this realm, although it's possible. I get the feeling that this world is a "purgatory" of sorts. It's a feeling of "oh god, not there" however, earth is also a very charged, very powerful place for us to be. It strengthens our spirit like no other realm does, and really learn how to use only the resources limited to the physical body, which is very little compared to our other astral bodies. There was a thread about this before, but I'll repeat the justice of it here. Earth is harder then any other realm. If you hit the corner of a desk with your knee, it sends you with a shocking pain coarsing through your body where you can't think or move or do anything else but FEEL that pain. Other realms are more "forgiving" in that aspect, where you'd pass through the desk vs. smacking into it. The reason many people feel like they run into things a lot. Their used to passing through, or if they barely catch the corner of that table, no big deal, and then WHACK. The pain coarses. I believe it to be very possible to contact reincarnated spirits. Even if it is here. I don't believe that our spirit is within our body ALL the time. I think it would go MAD. I think it often leaves while we sleep, or for short periods of time, thus the reason why we loose a day, or add a day to the week. However, I don't think that we reincarnate within a hundred years of earth time. Earth is really hard on our spirits. It takes a long time for our spirits to really heal from a life here. When we are ready to go on, we go to other realms and are reincarnated there, but it's not as inhibiting as here. We can easily hear the call of our children should they want to speak to us, as I know that if I was to die, and finally feel comfortable moving on, I would still make sure to check in on them from time to time, and keep an open ear to hear if they call for me. You'd better believe that if someone I love is still here when I pass, I'd be there in a heart beat to help them. It's not a question of lettng the loved one pass on, that's inevitable. They just might spend some more extra time here for a while. Thus the reason why (me personally) would have no desire to reincarnate (especially here) until all that I loved here can move on with me. I would like to think that I would have a place that I can reside, but easily hear my loved ones call if they should need me, where it would take but a second for me to respond. I think this is the case for many of us, thus the reason why it is so easy to contact those that we hold too dear in our hearts to ever truly say good bye. Perhaps that is also b/c their not ready either, and still love us too much to go on themself. Their energy still lingers around us, thus we hold on to them as well. This has been the case for me with an Aunt that passed away almost 20 years ago. I am completely over her passing, I saw her less then 10 times in my life, but I loved her like no other relative. I STILL feel her around me, and it's b/c she's not ready to go. So, the more she sticks around, the more I love her and want her around.

Astraea	28 Feb 2003
These are all such thoughtful and sensitive posts. This really is a delicate issue, as Sagitarian states. I know that communication with spirits through tarot is not only possible, but probably happens a lot more often than we are aware of. The conscious intention to consult the tarot in this manner was recently discussed in a thread started by Becky about an absolutely beautiful reading she did in which she communicated with her grandmother. To me, the lightness and wholesomeness of that contact were very clear. Many years ago, like so many teenagers (I am in my 50's now), I experimented with the Ouija board. Many of us have learned what a dangerous thing that can be. I do not in any way associate the tarot with the Ouija board, I want to make that clear! Tarot, to me, is like a dear and close friend who goes everywhere with me, and for whom I have the utmost respect. My sense is that communicating with those who have passed via the tarot is safer, cleaner, "higher" than many other methods. But my sincere question is: Why? As a visual medium (at least in terms of the Majors), tarot operates on (but is not limited to) the astral plane and must, therefore, be subject to influences from the lower regions of that realm. Is it potentially a doorway to troubled and troublesome spirits, in the way that Quija boards often are? My sense is that the answer is No, but I don't really understand why not. I would be most interested in hearing others' thoughts about this issue, because frankly I am drawn to learning more about after-death communication via tarot, but want to think it through from many angles. I think that Sagitarian sounded a worthwhile caution about "summoning" spirits, and perhaps the answer lies there. I am so indebted to the good souls in this forum who willingly share their wisdom and knowledge with others. As a newbie to this site, I cannot thank you enough.

sagitarian	28 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Astraea I know that communication with spirits through tarot is not only possible, but probably happens a lot more often than we are aware of. Tarot, to me, is like a dear and close friend who goes everywhere with me, and for whom I have the utmost respect. My sense is that communicating with those who have passed via the tarot is safer, cleaner, "higher" than many other methods. But my sincere question is: Why? As a visual medium (at least in terms of the Majors), tarot operates on (but is not limited to) the astral plane and must, therefore, be subject to influences from the lower regions of that realm. Is it potentially a doorway to troubled and troublesome spirits, in the way that Quija boards often are? My sense is that the answer is No, but I don't really understand why not. I am so glad you asked, because I've thought a lot on this too. Why wasn't I scared of tarot, but I was of the spirits? And yes, I've had my time with Quija board too. Why is it that tarot seems "safer" to use then a Quija board? Are they not both only tools for similar purposes? These are my thoughts on these questions, but may not be the answer. Tarot we have to become adjusted to, learn, feel, and ultimately "see" intuitively in our minds what they tell us. It is something that is more closed then the Quija. It is very particular, and also directed. The querent comes to you with a question, and the tarot reveals what it has to say. The querent can either except the extra insight, or not..their choice. Quija on the other hand, is not closed, it's more a wide open gate (if there is a gate) that says, ok, who ever wants to talk, go ahead...then, it's not directed properly, the energy isn't directed, we only recieve but have no grounding, where as tarot we do, and that grounding/directing that energy (with tarot it is the querent, they have a question, the cards are shuffled, and they get an answer), isn't just flying about wildly with no control. We learn to control the tarot from day one. The first thing that any one knows about tarot, and I do mean anyone is, you may ask a question if you want to. That alone, having a purpose for the reading itself is controling and grounding the energy. Most people when they use Quija, it is uncontrolled, unbalanced, we're not grounded, nor is it, and then it is also like I said, a WIDE open gate, if a gate at all, just wide open. Sure we ask questions, but the board needs to be grounded too. Very few people know what their doing with a Quija board, but if you ever have the chance to do the Quija again with someone who knows what they are doing, then it can be a wonderful experience. Tarot and Quija are both opened to all the planes that would accept and interact with ours. Tarot is like opening a door that is chained on the insight, and us going "whose there" before unchaining the door. Quija, there is no door/gate, anything really. As I said before, if you think you can feel someone around you, that is different then summoning, it is here that I would then suggest you pull out your cards and gently ask for their assistance to tell you what they want you to know. Think of that person in your mind and ask inside your mind, this is how they speak back to you, inside your mind, almost like your voice of reason, but it's different, a different feel to it, and your not controlling what is being said. Your thoughts are heard by them. Just simply ask, and let them know that it's ok if they don't want to talk. If they do, it's always polite to say a silent thank you to all that helps guide you. Even your tarot. I am very interested as well to see what others have to say about this topic.

Astraea	01 Mar 2003
Sagitarian, thank you for your insightful and compassionate responses to these questions. I feel in my head and heart that you have hit upon important answers. Yes -- tarot is focused and grounded by its very nature and history, whereas the Ouija board is not. I received a visual of this as I read your post: we are already "hooked up" in a very personal way to those on the other side who might speak to us through the tarot, but the channels available through the Ouija board are chaotic, open-ended, and proliferative, not ordered as the tarot is with its arcana and suits and time-honored, archetypal patterns and structures that act as formal -- and thus more or less safe -- channels for energy. I have even greater respect for tarot now than ever before, realizing this. Thank you so much for articulating these issues so clearly. I deeply feel that you are right when you say that if a spirit wishing to communicate is around, his or her presence will be felt and then the offer can be gently made to communicate through the tarot. This feels natural and beautiful to me, and very specific. I so appreciate your sharing these thoughts and, like you, I look forward to hearing the views of others who have wondered about this question. What a gift this forum is. Thank you, Sagitarian.

lunalafey	01 Mar 2003
The book that inspired this thread is called "Hello from Heaven" by Bill and Judy Guggenheim. Their focus is on the unsummoned. The book is full of stories of butterfies (think symbolic) and pennies. The 'voices', scents...etc. They also have a website: http://www.after-death.com I'm perfectly content with my cards. I'm not to fond of the board for obviuos reasons. I have not 'summoned' a second time since my experience, but reading I did for a friend about her b/f that died...the first card in the CC was the Emperor, he was an Aries. I did not occure to me at the time that it could have been actually him. sagitarian What a wonderful gift you have. Overwhelming as a child, understandable.

coldsuns	02 Mar 2003
After reading the 1st post, summon the spirits out. I actually was told by my history teacher that we are actually summoning the fallen angels. The fallens angels are angels when not long after the world is created, when the people died, they become angels but Satan bring half of those angels down to hell and this is why they are known as the fallen angels. And the fallen angels know what you wants to ask. This is told by that history teacher. I played 4 times of ouija board..so i know a bit about it. I once summon out my friend's father with my friend. And "he" actually able to tell us many things about my friend. "He" even knows the name of my friend's lover. "He" told us many things. "He" say that i will get the 12th position in the exams. But i get 21st position. I just feel so shock when the teacher read out my position. In Buddist, there is a thing call "bao pei". It is in Hokkien. Is a red thing which below is brown in colour but top is in red. It comes in pair. My friend used it to ask the father in the temple whether "he" actually come out and play with us using Ouija Board. And "he" say yes.. I also summon out a 2 years old baby which actually dont know anythings just keep scribbling the Ouija Board. We were too afraid and send him home..

Ruby Red Slippers	02 Mar 2003
Lunalafey I have enjoyed reading this thread and all of the insights shared. It is so wonderful to experience the free exchange of thought, ideas, experiences shred through the “life’s-experiences” of the participants. I thank each one of you, as you have made my right and left-brain work at integrating to an understanding. I too have been around for a long time and am a 30-year student of the mystical school. Never really accepting the world, as “what you see is what you get”. I have always felt an under current, a higher purpose than just living like the “walking dead”. But I ramble…. Jane Roberts blew me away when I read her 20 years ago. My favorite of her books is The Education of Oversoul 7. The story allows for one to grasp how time is all happening at once. After reading this story, one has a “knowing”, even if the left-brain rejects the thought. On the subject of the “other side” I suggest a couple of books that make for good reading…..1. Relax, It’s only a Ghost by Echo Bodine 2. Talking to Heaven by James Van Praagh 3. Walking in the Garden of Souls by George Anderson and 4. Crossing Over by John Edwards (show by the same name on the sci-fi channel). Each of us comes to adulthood with the programming embedded on the “disk” of our childhood. It is my understanding that the “hard drive” has all of the spirituality, the spark of the divine that we came to earth with as we emerged from the womb. Perhaps this is why at about 50 years old, one becomes less intense, more open and allows a lot of the “old programming” to go. My “programs” run better with direct access to the “hard drive” without the intervening “disk”. On a practical not, my father has been dead for almost 31 years, As John Edwards says, we are forever connected to some souls. I believe we come into this world as a part of a “Group” and we interact and are connected more closely to this group than the rest of the world, I believe the 911 souls we all part of “a Group’, I believe the Challenger astronauts were part of a group. I believe that each one of us here touching our psychic souls is part of group that helps us along this adventure we call LIFE.

Red Emma	02 Mar 2003
Aeclectic Tarot itself, and threads like this really elevate the Internet to it's highest use. The exploration of ideas and learning new concepts is, in my opinion, what the sages who have been castigating the results of technology i.e. porn, gossip about movie stars, etc. would most heartily approve. Of course, since many of them are kind of traditional - conventional, they'd probably castigate the ideas we're exploring! About Jane Roberts, the local library has a very sparse collection of her books and it's been necessary for me to buy the ones I have. I haven't read "The Education of Oversoul Seven," having been involved in "Nature of Personal Reality," and most recently, "The Way to Health" -- that may not be the exact title. I'm also making my way through Susan Watkins journal of the psychic class at Jane and her husband's house at which Seth seems to have been the main instructor. I've been especially interested in "The Way Toward Health" as I have some health problems to solve. It turns out that from TWTH I received some information as to what clues to follow, and thanks to that information,I firmly believe that I am now well entrenched on my own way toward health. The thing about Seth in this respect is that many ofthe ideas he espoused in the seventies have since been reinforced by research. Well, not all of them, but enough to, as Ruby Red Slippers said, blow me away. Maybe I'm getting too far off the original topic and our moderator will need to move this. Got to go fertilize my roses. Spring has turned the corner in the Pacific Northwest of the USA, and if I do this now, I'll have some splendiferous blooms come June. Goddess Bless

Amythist	07 Mar 2003
I use pendulums for contacting spirits and tarot for fortune i havent tried but it sounds really intresting

The after death communication thread was originally posted on 29 Mar 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.