Aleister Crowley

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 Mar 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Musicman	16 Mar 2002
Just been reading his new bio "A Makick Life" and am finding it fascinating. Learning about his childhood you get the picture on why he became the way he did especially towards the opposite sex re: his hatred for his mother. Anyway wanted to know what others thought of Crowley. Iknow he did a lot of drugs and was prone to exageration including sexual deviant behaviours but I think also there's a side of him that produced a body of work that benefits mankind...Looking forward to hearing your responses...

Ophiel	16 Mar 2002
While I am not a 'fan' of Crowley, find his material troublesome to cipher through (and ultimately not worth the effort for me), I, too, am fascinated by the personality that produced so much work. The Thoth deck remains one of my favorites. I think one has to be adventuresome and eccentric to pioneer at least a leg of the 20th century occult movement. From what I understand, Crowley pushed the envelope often exploring the boundaries of things. I have not read much by or about him, but did pick up the biography recently, "Do What Thou Wilt!" I think that's the title. I look forward to what others in the group have to say about the beast! LOL.

catlin	18 Mar 2002
I posted my opinion about Beasty Boy in another thread before the move but I am willing to sum it up. Ok, he did a great deal to spread word of tarot and magic(k) and I think we shoudee his débauche life partly as product of his time and biography and partly due to his love for eccentric behaviour. Personally I do not like this guy although I got a copy of the book Thot in my book shelf.

Temperance413	18 Mar 2002
I guess you could say he was a deviant, but if you look closely at the reasons why he was called a Satanist, was because he was trying to disprove the Catholic Church. He was into the Kabbalah, and he was trying to tell the people not to get too hooked on dogma and the strict thought of the church at that time. There was more to the whole scheme of things than everybody originally thought. I won't excuse his behavior, but look at some of our rock stars today and what they get away with and are still well loved. Not to mention one President of the United states that I will not mention.........

truthsayer	18 Mar 2002
when i bought the thoth deck 15 years ago, i had no idea who aleister crowley was or what he represented. a friend tried to explain to me but she didn't know enough about him to give me a clear idea. so i read w/ the deck up to 2 years ago when i started learning more and more about his life. even tho i feel the deck isn't of itself evil, it reminds me of the vile way he treated women. i understand he had severe mother issues and really needed to be a patient of sigmnd freud who was also living at that time. he may have been what we would call a serial sex offender today. he probably would have ended up in prison these days. then the circumstances behind why his wife commited suicide are just atrocious. the hell he must have put that poor woman thru. evidently, they had a child they adored but the girl died and crowley blamed his wife. i'm sure there was more to it but... it's beyond me how lady frieda harris dealt w/ him. i think it must be something inherent in genius that creates deviances in behavior or personality. i think a trait that tends to stand out is narcissism. i think crowley has to be the worst i know of. another one i can think of is albert einstein. he ignored his wife and children for his obsession for his work. i think she later divorced him and he took another lady companion. as long as the companion centered her attention on his needs things were fine but it didn't work both ways. einstein did many great things that changed the world and is known for his altruism. however, his shoddy treatment of ppl in in personal relationships discolors that for me. dr. seuiss(theodore guiss) is another. his first wife emeshed herself in helping him write the stories. yet when she got old, he dropped her for a younger woman. so she committed suicide. he also hated children. i have problems celebrating his achievements b/c of that. maybe i'm holding standards too high but it's my opinion. take it or leave it. i doubt i will ever be able to read w/ the thoth again. since i object so strongly to crowley's lifestyle, i would feel like a hypocrite to continue my approval of the deck.

Greenman	19 Mar 2002
i really don't think one should judge a man by his 'political correctness', especially someone who lived in a different era. this is not to excuse his atrocious behavior, just to put it into perspective. he pioneered quite a few frontiers, including holding the altitude record for mountain climbing for over 35 years! but it's his writing is that earned both his fame and his controversy. my feeling is that as a poet he was very mediocre. his other writings were somewhat better. but the Book of Thoth is a different matter. if he is remembered for nothing else, that will be okay. this is his legacy, and it's my (well documented) opinion that it is the greatest tarot work ever penned. so everything else that can be said about Crowley (good OR bad) falls by the wayside as far as i'm concerned. he wrote the Book of Thoth, and that's enough!

mystic	19 Mar 2002
Agreed. Although unorthodox and illegal at best, Crowley was a metaphysical genius. Lady Harris and he developed one of the most penetrating decks ever put in print, and it will remain so for many generations to come. The deck will be one I use for a very long time.......

All Is One	22 Mar 2002
I can basically deal with whatever I've heard about Crowley (not that much, as I'm learning today in your posts!) because the Thoth deck and the book and much of his work in correspondences does in fact convince me that he was a genius (an evil genius, perhaps). The idea of Dr. Seuss hating children chills my soul. I learned to read by myself, sort of, and it was almost solely using his books. Even Einstein?? I'm not losing my faith in the basic goodness in all forms of life, but I'm a bit er... wobbled. Thanks for the information: Truth is Light Knowledge is Power

arizonagirl	22 Mar 2002
truthsayer wrote: "dr. seuiss(theodore guiss) is another. his first wife emeshed herself in helping him write the stories. yet when she got old, he dropped her for a younger woman. so she committed suicide. he also hated children. i have problems celebrating his achievements b/c of that." Reminds me of the renowned architect Frank Lloyd Wright who left his first wife with 6 or so kids and moved in with his mistress.

january	22 Mar 2002
This may be a bit off the thread, but what was the Aleister Crowley/Led Zeppelin connection? I read ( I think in Hammer of the Gods) that Jimmy Page (Zep guitarist) bought Crowley's home in the early 70's. Were the bandmates students of Crowley? Their lyrics were mystical and Pagan-esque and hinted a mistrust of women (am I opening a can o' worms?) And now, having a bit of Tarot knowledge, I'm beginning to make some "maybe" connections. I was just wondering! Musicman, by your screen name I just thought you may have the answer! After reading this thread, I think I may pick up AC's bio. ~ january

Musicman	23 Mar 2002
Yes, Jimmy Page (Led Zep's guitarist) once bought and lived in Crowley' Boleskin house and Jimmy also owned an occult book store in London in the '70's. He also owns the largest and only collection of crowley material. He has been a 'crowleyian' since the late '60's. 'Stairway To heaven' was written in 'automatic writing' writing form in ten minutes in the fire place at Boleskin. The symbolism in the song is itself open to so much interpretation, unless you take the 'christian fundies' view which is it's the 'most satanic song ever written' and has been banned in many southern states of the US. led Zep helped popularise crowley as well as black magic to a certain extent. Apparently the deaths of Robert Plant's young son and John Bonham's death in 1980 was according to legen attributed to page's involvement with Crowley and all things magic..just another way by 'conservatives' to tarnish something that they themselves have no idea or understand about...

truthsayer	23 Mar 2002
i didn't know all that about led zep. of course, i was pretty young and so sheltered from the world in the seventies so i never even heard heavy rock until i left home. my parents only listened to country, elvis, and classicial. makes more sense why a friend's father literally did a fundie freak-out when he saw i used tarot cards. he's bound to have known about all that. i vaguely recall her talking about how her dad got on her older brother about liking rock b/c the musicians were satanists. i didn't understand at the time. when i finally did hear "stairway to heaven" i thought it was one of the most beautiful songs i'd ever heard. guess i won't let crowley take that away from me. i never even heard of aleister crowley until around 1986 when i bought the thoth deck and a liberal friend freaked. just amazing how little bits and pieces of things i learn here help me understand the world better. personally, i can't let go of crowley's crimes even though he was a metaphysical genius. as long as other ppl can recognize his contributions to the esoteric world what i think about him doesn't matter except to me. for me, i choose not to use the thoth deck due to my convictions. however, i will continue to use it as a study deck b/c i can't negate what i can learn from it.

purplelady	25 Mar 2002
Truthsayer............it seems to me that a lot of men (maybe women aren't exempt from this either?) who are famous , or wrote famous books , or did something amazing (Like Einstein who really was a genius, but I heard couldn't tie his own shoes!) aren't the perfect example of a saint in other or all areas of their lives................Especially people who are Really geniuses , or outstanding in whatever their field or art may be. I can understand that Einstein was probubly OBSESSED with discovering the secrets of the universe and relativity, and other things like his personal relationships , went by the wayside. Hmmmm, maybe we should go in search of the perfect man , one who can be a world genius in physics, and ALSO tie his shoes! Then he can also write a famous musical composure, and treat his wife , kids and in-laws with the ultimate in grace and love and politeness and kindness. Sigh! If anyone discovers the perfect man let me know! And Dr. Suess hated kids , now That is one I never heard, kind-of difficult to believe! I'm not trying to pick on you! I'm just getting carried away trying to make my point I guess!!!And I guess I Should know who Frank Lloyd Wright is , but I don't recall.....................However, it is my personal belief and observation that A Lot of people , maybe men And women are very unhappy with marriage. And I personally believe that maybe society ought to rethink this whole thing about how people are supposed to Be. And so..............I do not judge a man or a person on how well he does marriage. Unlike some current things that have gone on in our society recently.

purplelady	25 Mar 2002
Maybe Crowley, and Dr. Suess , and Einstein Did treat their wives terribly? I'm not saying they didn't. Can you really For Sure blame someone for another person's suicide however? After all , Many , many men have left their wives for younger women . But all those women certainly don't commit suicide. In fact , I'm Sure some probubly go on to discover some other happiness in their lives and maybe are much better off without him! Also , and I might be wrong , but I Think I read that Crowley had 2 daughters, that after the first one died , they did have another daughter? Can you Imagine if You manage to write a famous book that people still read 100 yrs from now. Maybe people will write biographies of your life , and come up with stuff or change it a little here and there! I mean , how can you really know for sure what goes on ? Maybe someone can channel crowley or Dr Suess and come up with the real scoop! Maybe Dr. Suess spurned his mistress or wife So she decided to tarnish his name forever and spread the gossip that he hated children!

All Is One	26 Mar 2002
I never stopped to think of that. . .! It amazes me that I have to learn the same lessons over and over, but it has to be this way, for me, as well as for most people, maybe. I read the information about Dr Seuss hating children and the other people who had these kind of shockingly cruel behaviors and I had a knee-jerk reaction; I tend to believe in things in a vague sort of " sounds credible-could be true" kind of manner. However, the last few posts really pulled me up by the short hairs and made me think. I feoget that people DO lie outrageously, i.e. the spurned wife or a jealous competitor in same field having possibly made up or greatly stretched the truth and I am really grateful that I got this reminder regarding my gullibility combined with my child-like "it's all black or it's all white" thinking can be a HUGE barrier to learning the truth about much of anything. Thanks for the lesson. I'm going to go write in my journal, because the issue od Einstein and Dr Seuss is one thing, but my rushing into the family fray in the same manner needs some serious psyche searching.

Kiama	31 Mar 2002
I like his deck. That's really it! I don't think this man used his potential to the fullest, and squandered the talents he had. His poetry was mediocre, and could've been better. His attempts to be the latest Marquis de Sade/Messiah-type guy failed, and to his detriment. Reportedly, he held no affection for anybody, no love. This is a shame for him. But apparantly towards the end of his life he did, which is a good thing, and I'm glad he finally found that. I also have one question: The Book of The Law was dictated to him by the Egyptian God Horus, or at least that is what he claimed... However, why would an Egyptian God know about the Biblical reference to the number 666 in the Book of Revelations? The 666 thing is in the Book of the Law, but I think that maybe its existence in there points to the fact that maybe Crowley isn't telling us the whole truth.... Kiama

Musicman	31 Mar 2002
Actually the 666 comes from Crowley himself and The Beast was what his Plymyth brethen mother called him as a kid. Crowley took the title up and in every correspondence he signed it 'The Great Beast 666" which also tainted all his works. Amongst the dictated Book Of Law from the God Horus Crowley added '666'. I finished reading his bio today and it's been a great read, showing both sides of Crowley, he good and the bad. Going to read his 'Diary Of A Drug Fiend' now as it's one of his most best books that describe and details the dangers of Heroin addiction in a story sense based on his own experineces. The book has been often understood as encouraging drug taking when in fact it is supposed to teach you it's dangers and discourage use. Crowley was way ahead of his time. For example some of his philosophies in education and teaching were actaully picked up by the British education system as wel as the FBI and MI5 have used his knowledge in the 'cold war' era. Hitler used Crowley's knowledge in WW2 but Crolwey distanced himself from Hitler as Hitler abused the teachings of Crowley. Very interesting man...

Kiama	31 Mar 2002
He did indeed have some profound knowledge: It just such a shame that it wasnt channeled more effectively... One thing I really like about him was that when he was visited by an actress or somebody, I've forgotten her name now.. I'll find it when I get home.... Anyway, he told her to go out and meditate naked in a lean-to shelter away from everything for a month. So, she did this. The first 19 days were deathly boring, until the 20th day, when sh suddenly found everything such a pleasure... It wasn't so boring anymore, and she could think clearly,and understand everything better... What happened here was a now well-known psychological technique. Basically, the only reason we get bored is cuz our minds are so used to being active and trying to keep up with our modern-day, busy lives. However, once we are left in a situation where we have aboslutely nothing to do, our mind slows to meet this speed of action, so we don't get bored! Hope I explained that well enough.... Kiama

Greenman	31 Mar 2002
Horus? the 'Book of the Law' was (allegedly) dictated to AC by an angel named Aiwass while in Egypt in 1904. and 'Diary of a Drug Fiend' was a work of fiction that he admitted in his later autobiography he wrote over a three week period just for the money (he owed back-rent on his cottage in Sicily, the so-called 'Abbey of Thelema'). although it was loosely basd on his personal experiences, i wouldn't put too much credence in the 'Diary'. i'll admit that his poetry wasn't as good as he thought, but Crowley was an explorer, both physically and metaphysically. while alot of his conclusions may (or may not) have been erroneous, he pushed the known boundries of occult knowledge, and led the way for MANY who followed. and for that, if nothing else, we should be grateful.

Musicman	01 Apr 2002
Greenman, I stand corrected, you are right, the book of law was dictated by Aiwass, my mistake, It was to announce the 'Aeon Of Horus", and the 666 was also taken from an exhibition number in a museum where AC's wife took crowley to, to show him who she thought was being channelled through her. Thus crowley took note of the exhibition number... You are right about 'Diary Of A drug Fiend' being fiction, thats what I meant by 'a story', but I have to take issue with you regarding it's worth. Indeed It is a work based on crowley's own experiences while he was still a heroin addict, and portrays' through his fictional characters an accurate picture of addiction mixed in with his philosophy of 'masering thy will' to overcome the addiction. The book has been used by many health professionals over the years for it's realistic and accurate account. It has also been used by addicts who have claimed to have helped with them getting over their addictions. Yes, he did write it for the money, but it doesn't take away it's worth in that sense.And don't forget his 'autobiography' is biased and exaggerated, so the picture we get of Crowley is precisely of that, which he intends his readers to have. The autobiograpghy contains many well-known untruths. Even the John Symonds bio is allegedly written to enhance his 'notorious legend' even further, as well as the author is known to have admitted that he, 'took over crowleys estate and wrote the book because he knew it would make him rich'. try reading Martin Booth's 'A Magick Life' or 'Do What Thou Wilt' by, I can't remember who the author is, but both of those books contain an unbiased view of Crowley without taking any sides..

Greenman	01 Apr 2002
i apologise. i thought you were suggesting that the 'Diary' was autobiographical, which it was not (although he certainly wrote from experience). in fact, i think it's one of his better pieces of writing, but i've never read 'Moonchild'. and i guess there are lessons to be learned from 'Diary', although not the ones AC had intended. in fact he later recanted his idea that one could use these highly addictive opiates ritually, and then quit at will by the use of some higher magickal discipline. this again from personal experience, after going through the horrors of withdrawal while in Tunisia. what i got from this was that he realized that there is NO mental discipline while in this state, and his theory of control collapsed.

The Aleister Crowley thread was originally posted on 16 Mar 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.