Are capable of true forgiveness???

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Mar 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ramses	03 Mar 2002
Hey folks... How are you?...Hope youīre all fine!!! Well...Forgive...can you really forgive someone who has hurt you???...Forgive, and forget all the hurt?...Can you love your "enemies"?...well, thatīs what we should do, right?... I remember now...there was this stupid guy, at high school, who kept calling me bad names, for a whole year, just to call peopleīs attention...I was really upset with that...everybody used to say that if they were me, they would have hit the guy long before...well, sometimes I felt like doing that...but, the year went by...and, when me and my friends decided to go bowling, as a "farewell party", on our last day in high school, that guy was there.... well...by the end of the day, I started saying good bye to everybody, before leaving, and decided to shake hands with that guy, as a sign of peace, and forgiveness...all of our friends were amazed, took pictures and all...they couldnīt believe I was shaking hands with that guy who kept being bad at me all year... well...In my opinion, if you allow feelings of hurt and anger to grow inside you, all youīre gonna get is hurt for your soul...itīs so much better to forgive... of course..sometimes itīs a difficult thing to do...but, if we take some time to think, weīll see that we are not perfect...we make lots of mistakes too, and we want to be forgiven...donīt we?... So...thatīs it ...hehe...I think Iīm really confusing in my posts, ainīt I??? LOVE, PEACE AND HARMONY TO YOU ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kiama	03 Mar 2002
I got bullied quite alot in Secondary School and in Primary School, but now if I see the people who bullied me, I'll say 'hi', smile, etc... I don't see the point in remembering what hurt me in the past. If I have a disgreement with somebody, I also don't see the point of carrying it through to affect any other aspect of life. On Aeclectic and the web, if I have a disagreement, I forget it and don't let it affect what I say to the person in the future. I don't think I've actually said to myself, right, Kim, its time to forgive this person.... Cuz usually I just forget it and accept what happened. So, I kinda don't know if I do actually forgive. I just heal quickly I guess... However, I do find it one of he most difficult things in the world to forgive myself. I have done some things which I shouldn't have, which, although I was forgiven by the person it affected, I still cannot fully forgive myself. There will always be something inside me which feels disgusted at what I did. I think that if we don't forgve others, it condemns them to slower healing. I know that if I wasn't forgiven, I would be even worse right no about what I did! But this person's forgiveness made the world of difference. There. A bit of a confused answer, so I hope you guys understood it! Kiama

Liliana	03 Mar 2002
YesI actually forgive andI love my enemy. Im a mentalmess because of how my grandparents (who raised me), my mom, and mypeers treated me all throughmyschool years. I was"that kid" in school, you know, the one thats the butt of every joke, the one sprayed with the cootie spray in grade school, which graduates into the girl noone but absolute loosers willdate in high school. I have no self esteem because of it, most people mention one person who did this to them, I had an entire school worth. I was paranoid, every whisper was about me, I couldnt truly enjoy my school days. But I never hated them, I still dont hate them. I sometimes wish they didnt destroy me like they did, and wonder who id be if they hadnt, but I still forgive them. They are the ones who've been divorced (only about 25 years old), are single parents, and worse. I've been married for 6 years, have 2 daughters, and am getting a better life, so I forgive them forhaving to step on me to make themselves feel big. Its the way life is.

truthsayer	03 Mar 2002
i could talk about forgiveness for hours. there are so many kinds of forgiveness and ways to forgive. there are many stages in reaching complete forgiveness. there are ppl and situations that i think i have forgiven but then something happens and those feelings will re-emerge. so when someone says they have forgiven but haven't forgotten i know that a surface level there is forgiveness in this person's heart. but at a deeper level there is still healing to be done. i know when thoughts from the past no longer plague me then i have let the situation. one big component of forgiving someone is learning how to forgive yourself for allowing yourself to be vulnerable. when i was a child, some adults did things that really hurt me and impacted my life. i thought i was loved but realized later these weren't exactly loving behaviors but what i had learned and accepted to be love. it has taken me many years of recovery to put these things behind me. the biggest hurdle was forgiving myself for allowing those things to happen. a friend pointed out to me that i wasn't being fair to myself b/c i was judging a child thru adult eyes. if i had been an adult i would have had more control to fight back or question the things that happened. as that concept of self-forgiveness sunk in, my anger towards the ppl involved lessened and melted. i got to the point i was able to confront the ppl and talk about my feelings and their feelings. if a door was shut on me then that indicated where that person stood on being able to take personal responsibility. however, i didn't have to accept responsibility for that person's behavior to make things right. no matter what, that person still was responsible for the behavior. i could still let go and forgive--not necessarily b/c an irresponsible person refused to accept the truth about him/herself--but b/c i deserved forgiveness. i deserved another chance at life. i deserved to let go of the past and get on w/ my life. no amt. of apology will change the past but just a touch of forgiveness goes a long way towards beginning healing a heart in the present and to creating a new future which begins mending those broken fences. i have found that i am strong in the broken places. what doesn't kill me, only makes me stronger. so yes, i am capable of true forgiveness but i am wise enough to know that forgiveness doesn't just happen. it's a process. some forgivenesses are easy but the wound isn't deep. complex hurts can can take a lifetime. it's okay tho. i'm up for the duration.

aciddragon	03 Mar 2002
Quote: truthsayer (04 Mar, 2002 09:13): iso yes, i am capable of true forgiveness but i am wise enough to know that forgiveness doesn't just happen. it's a process. some forgivenesses are easy but the wound isn't deep. complex hurts can can take a lifetime. it's okay tho. i'm up for the duration. I totally agree with this statement. About 3 yrs ago, I was in a relationship that when south. It was with a friend that I had known for 15 yrs. It totally destroy my trust in ppl and it was the darkness days of my life thus far and hopefully ever. At the time I wanted to forgive her and did to a point, but it wasn't total forgiveness. 3 yrs later, I'm still struggling with it, but I've come a long ways with it. I'm trying now to renew our friendship. She was a very special person to me. We use to be able to tell each other anything and everything. I'm not sure if the friendship will ever get back to that point but I'm going to try. She knows she hurt me but I don't think she'll ever know how bad nor do I think I want her to know. I think it would just make matters worse for her. Anyway, Yes I believe in forgiveness but time...Time is the key to all things. If you let wound fester, it will only destroy you not the other person who hurt you. :)

jade	03 Mar 2002
i haven't read anyone else's posts on this but here's my response: i can forgive, but never forget. to forget is silly and unsensible! if my friend gossips harshly behind my back and i find out, confront her and she apologizes and promises not to do it again and then, later she does it again.....then i know to let that friend go! since friends are mirrors of us, i don't want to mirror that type of behaviour. so yes, i'm very forgiving. after all i have forgiven my 'offenders' from my childhood abuse, but i don't forget. in light, jade ps although, i don't believe in 'holding it against them' either. that isn't truely forgiving. :) just tuck it away in case they do it again! :)

JustBlue	04 Mar 2002
I have to agree with many things that Truthsayer said, it is a process. And this process for me is a very long one, and the time I have gone trough have leaved very deep scars in my soul. I also had to walk trough the parth of self forgiveness, for the destruction that I was the target of, I still recover from it, but I have come a very long way. The postive side of the abuse, and hardship I have faced, is that it has made me what I am today, and it has forced me to see clearly and honest on myself, facing my darkest fears, and overcome it. I still at times move into old frames of mind, where self denial and pain are a part, but these moments happen less and less, thank God. And yes, I love those who consider themselfs my enemy.

Diana	04 Mar 2002
There have been some very moving and honest stories posted here. I must say that they shook me up quite a bit. I've been thinking about Ramses' question on and off all morning. And I don't think I can give a black or white answer - it's very much in the grey. But I think I can can say that I forgive people who have truly repented. But if the person who has hurt me feels no remorse, or has done nothing, or not enough, to change him/herself, then no, I don't think I can forgive that person. I will try and not let any feelings of hatred or anger or antagonism eat me up, but will not forgive them. At most, I will try and become indifferent to them. But now, I have never been really hurt very badly. I don't know how I would react in extreme circumstances. Like if I had been put unjustly in prison for a crime I didn't commit, or something worse than that, I don't know if I could ever forgive the person who put me there. So my answer to Ramses' question is "yes, no, maybe, I dunno, depends on the circumstances".

Diana	04 Mar 2002
P.S. Ramses, I don't see why anyone should "love their enemies". I think that's a bit wierd.

Kiama	04 Mar 2002
'Loving your enemies' is an interesting subject. I don't think that it means we should try and mke friends with them, buy them presents, buy them a drink down the pub, etc... Cuz there are bound to be some people in this world we don't like, or who we don't get on with. I don't see the point of trying to like someone when I don't. However, maybe 'love thy enemies' is more an instruction in what affects hatred and dispels it quickest, with the most effect: Love, or further hatred? And to hate your enemies is easy, you just do to them what they did to you. Respecting them, and showing them compassion, not retaliating, is more than difficult! Its an artform! When somebody has forced their hate upon you, why let that hatred get inside you? Why not bar it out with some feeling, with some light? And then we come onto 'enemies'. I don't think I really have any enemies. 'Enemies', to me, denotes those horible bad guy characters in films, who are after the hero from the word go, an want to kill them , or somethng. Maybe its just my inexperience of enemies talking now, but maybe we don't have enemies as such, but merely people who don't like us, and we don't like them? Kiama

JustBlue	04 Mar 2002
Welcome to the discussion Diana. As you so lucid and honest state it, forgiveness are not something done in a flinch, or easy for that matter. Perhaps I can elaborate slightly on my view on my love for those who has hurt me, keep in mind that this is only my subjective view. As I see it, love isnīt blind acceptance of the circumstances which the someone outside of you have hurt you, neither am I to love the hurtful actions. It isnīt refusal to look deeply upon the truth, or being naive. It is not to avoid taking actions that prevent further pain being expressed. What is it then according to me. It is the refusal to hit back, to defend oneself without or the minimum use of force. It is to look beyond the actions of the woman or man, and see the soul who are the cause of these actions, not to judge, but to love what is hidden. I am certain that she/he who hurt me suffers from not seeing themselves as they truly are. The absense of knowledge of the heart is what I would call it. I love those who would consider me their enemy since since those who would do that, suffers deep inside, and we come all from the same source. Take care Diana.

Diana	04 Mar 2002
Kiama, I agree that hatred is not a solution (hate tends to rebound on oneself - can even cause certain forms of cancer and other diseases). But not hating someone doesn't mean one has to go the opposite extreme. I think there is an in-between way. What I mean is, one doesn't necessarily have to be on either side - there is a middle road. And if someone hates me of course doesn't necessarily make me hate them - their feelings belong to them - that's their problem, not mine. An enemy is not someone one just doesn't like. I think that some people have real enemies in this world - I mean if I was a Pakistani woman who had acid thrown over me by a jealous husband, or a Palestinian father seeing my house bulldozed and my kids growing up in a refugee camp with no hope of getting out, or a mother in Rwanda seeing my kid hacked to death with a machete, - then I think I would have an enemy that I would not be able to treat with kindness or respect or compassion. And I think I could only forgive them if there was true repentence. Because I really think that some people can change deeply and to the core and forever. (But the "I think I could forgive them" is very theoretical, because I can't really imagine the feelings that one has in this kind of ghastly situation).

joya250	04 Mar 2002
wow. what a great question, Ramses. I can honestly say that so far in my life I have been able to truly forgive and, yes, forget. I hear what you're saying Jade, about the forgetting part, and I agree with you to some extent.... and I think maybe we have differing definitions of "forget." I considered "forgetting" when you can think of a person and not have your thoughts tainted by past hurts... when they are clear and free, in your mind, from any negative associations. Of course, there is a thin line between "forgive & forget" and learning from past experiences, or rather not using common-sense / self-protection / or whatever the phrase is that I can't seem to think of right now. I have been blessed to not have had to deal with any Major trauma or hurt. I have not lost any loved-ones because of the actions of another. It would take A LOT for me to forgive someone who murdered family or friends. Forgiveness is a very complicated thing. :(

Ramses	04 Mar 2002
Hey folks... How are you?...Hope youīre all fine!!! Well, itīs great to see that so many people responded to this post, sharing opinions so sincerely...mostly because this such a delicate issue, if we are being honest here... When I said " Love your enemies ", I really meant "love"...but, maybe in a higher sense of the world...a higher and universal love...like the love of a mother, who continues loving her child, even when the child has done something really bad... I mean...we may be hurt, disappointed at someone, and all that...but, if we understand that the other person is just human, if we try to be in the other personīs shoes, if we try to understand the other personīs reasons...well, we may love this person, this "enemy", and maybe feel sorry for he/she still hasnīt had the opportunity of evolving to a higher level... Once I wrote a poem about it...my mom loved it ...hehe...you know how mothers are...hehe... But, I hope you all have understood what I meant...we gotta plant love and comprehension, if we want to have peace around us...and, before judging someone, hating someone, we should try to look within ourselves, just to check if it wasnīt us who did something to deserve to suffer with the bad attitudes of someone else... Well...here I am...hehe...confusing as ever...kinda crazy...ops...sorry... Just wanna say that Iīve loved everything everyone wrote...and most important of all...I LOVE YOU ALL FOLKS...TRULY DO!!!!!!! LOVE, PEACE AND HARMONY TO YOU ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

amyel	04 Mar 2002
If I was brutally honest with myself, I'd have to say that I don't think I am truly capable of true forgiveness. I think this has alot to do with my personality - I'll tolerate alot before I move on. And maybe this is why I don't think I truly forgive. In those cases, I certainly don't forget! This does not mean I don't move on with my life. Like Kiama said, I accepted a long time ago that there will always be people who I like and there will people I don't like - and there will be people I feel fairly neutral about and get along with, without really worrying about them exiting my life later (for example, clients I work with - nothing personal, but hey, we'll all move on and no harm done). Having said all that, there are very few folk I would say I have not forgiven. Maybe this means there are few folk who have really harmed me that deeply, I don't know. Most of the major upsets and divisions in my life are either as result of death or as a result of *me* moving on. So maybe, for me, the question isn't about forgiving others, but forgiving one's self. And that's a whole different ballgame, in my mini-verse!

magdalene	04 Mar 2002
I think only god is capable of that. We might think we are enlightened, but true forgiveness is a divine virtue that I don't think human nature allows. I could never walk hand in hand with someone who said they were sorry for killing a loved one. At the very least I'd be suspiscious. And that's not being truly forgiving. magdalene

aciddragon	04 Mar 2002
I believe each of us has their own definion of true forgiveness. I think true forgiveness is not harboring ill will towards that person(s) that have hurt you. Yes, I believe you will always wish that it wouldn't have happened but I don't think that's part of forgiveness. (that is the forgetting part which is well to me almost impossible. You can put it in that back of your mind where it don't control you but I don't think you can ever forget completely) Forgiveness is to me, The healing of your own heart and the understanding that somethings happen for a reason(s) even if you don't understand that reason(s) now or ever... The main thing is to grow stronger from your experinces and not to let them form a void in your heart where you lose sight of all things. As in everything, It's easier said then done. I always hope that others never have to see the darkness that can loom in ones own heart in those times of despair. Some crazy thoughts can cross your mind at those times and they can seem rational too at that time.

JustBlue	05 Mar 2002
There are some really profound ideas in this tread, so I cannot help myself but to give in to the urge to further my views. As with strong words as Love and forginess it is perfectly normal to form own interpretations of their meanings as displayed. Diana expressed that there is an middle road to take in between Love and hate, and gave horrible yet true examples where human limitations get put to an extreme. Hopefully my further reasoning are not to be wieved as complete obscurity. I do not see Love and hate as two opposites that can easlily be synchroniced in the typical two opposites fachion. And I do not see anger as hate either, sometimes we have to react emphasising our powerful selves (Geburah). (Iīll borrow the popular model of Tai chi now, altohugh I would be more comfortable with the QBL) If one looks at naive love as Ying, and raging hate as Yang, this model can make some sense. Balancing between two extremes that are equally harmful alone. But what if I see the reason for our existance is love, and that this love inclusedes both Ying and yang to be complete. What about Love as Ying and hate as Yang, it would be rahter hard to use this model. If we see the cause of existance (love), hate can be viewed as the foremost expression of lack of harmony between these two opposites. That is not to condemn the expression of hate, but to see the reason of it, (lack of harmony). Still if we are to use this wording, the love and hate of the Tai chi can be looked upon as lesser expressions, not to be confused with the Tao of the Taoists, or God of love in many other beliefs. I might add that Tao cannot be conveyed with words according to the Taoists, so even love would not be a sufficient expression of the cause of Ying and yang. But this is theory, when these acts of terror are expressed on a soul, those who are the target have my full understanding and prayer, hopefully we can build a world where acts of this sort will lessen. Take care all.

Moonklad	06 Mar 2002
I think in some instances I have been capable of true forgiveness and as some have already posted here, I think that this true forgiveness is something that takes a long time to accomplish. It's not something that can occur with a mere word. I think the first step in forgiveness is realizing that we are all capable of making mistakes, of causing pain of doing "unforgivable" things. I have to believe that even the most evil people have good inside them. What was that quote from Anne Frank "in spite of all that I have seen...etc" I can't recall it exactly.It takes working through, especially if someone has hurt of betrayed you deeply. However, I do feel this is definately needed in those cases because many times the anger and pain we feel about a situation is only intensified when we don't forgive. By dwelling on something we only give it more power over us. For example, a few years ago I got a divorce. Many hurt feelings involved etc..but after a while instead of hurt, I felt mostly anger. So much anger that I decided I REFUSED to let that hurt take away my happiness any longer. I refused to give it any more of my energy. I forgave him and myself for all the hurt and mistakes made. It made a world of difference. It was true forgiveness. blessings, Moon

truthsayer	06 Mar 2002
i think one of my biggest lessons about forgiveness is that refusing to forgive the person who trespassed against me doesn't hurt that person at all. holding a grudge only hurts me in terms of energy tied up in holding on to unresolved feelings. i'm not saying forget what happened but give YOURSELF break! when you can't forgive the only person truly being punished is YOU! i have discovered that forgiveness doesn't mean i let the other person off the hook. i just let myself off the hook and ceased the punishment on myself. 9 x out of 10 that person doesn't care if i think i'm martyring myself by not forgiving. even if the other person happens to care, there's no way my lack of forgiveness is going to hurt him/her as much as it's hurt me. it creates karma and continues vicious cycles that someone needs to choose to end so at least one of you can move on the higher purposes. the only person's behavior i have any control over is my own. trying to control another's behavior by refusing forgiveness is nothing but an act of futility and gains nothing. depression is anger turned against oneself. becoming cognizant of that self-anger and freeing it is one of the most empowering experiences i've ever encountered. it literally feels like megatons are lifted off your soul.

VGimlet	07 Mar 2002
I can, and have, forgiven most of the mean-spirited, thoughtless, or sometimes cruel things people have done to me over the years. I can forgive and even forget on my own behalf, but if someone hurts or betrays my loved ones, I will never forget. Forgive, perhaps with time, but not forget. I have a more difficult time forgiving myself for being cruel or thoughtless. I still feel badly about things I did in my past.

Major Tom	07 Mar 2002
I pulled out my ancient dictionary which defines 'forgive' as: to give up resentment against or the desire to punish; pardon (an offense or offender). I don't know if this qualifies as 'true forgiveness' but it is what I try to do and actually believe that this is all any human being can do: give up resentment or the desire to punish. As far as 'loving' people who have hurt me - the best I'm able to do is wish them well. I'm with Lilyaka - the hardest bit is forgiving myself...

Hush	07 Mar 2002
humph. i find i can forgive, but as people have said, it takes a while and how they act afterwards tends to affect it too, if they act like theyre sorry and stuff then its easier, you know? no ones ever actually done anything that i couldnt forgive, but i think sometimes i blur the line between forgetting and forgiving, i think there are things i chose not to acknowlodge that people have done, and i think sometimes i can mistake that for having forgiven them... *yawns* trying to work my brain this much after 4 hours sleep is painful work, lol, curse our caffeine free coffee! i can only think of one person who i can never forgive for what they have done, but i dont know them, so its not exactly my place to forgive or not, but for what they have done to someone i know i could never forgive them for... after edit: i agree with lilyaka and major tom, i'm awful for forgiving myself, i still feel bad for stuff i've said to random people when i was like 5! and for times when i was younger and have been ungrateful towards my family, or haven't noticed if they've had a bad time and still been annoying anyway...its tough.

GeminiLady	09 Mar 2002
As some of you remember from a different post, I have been struggling with this lately. What I realized is that when you are not able to forgive someone it doesn't hurt the other person near as much as it can hurt yourself. --And why give the other person that kind of power of you?...Especially someone who has already hurt you in some way. I'm working on forgiving--the best I can--and for those of you who might be wondering, I did give my father that attunement. It wasn't easy, but it's time for me to stop allowing past hurts to hurt me in the present. Now, like some of you have said..there is the issue of forgetting--and while the things that have happened can't be foremost on my mind when I think of him...it would be downright foolish for me not to learn from past mistakes. Forgiveness to me means that I will open my heart for both of our best interests, and learn that I can love someone withough liking them. Love and Light, Gem

Ophiel	10 Mar 2002
Prokofieff, the (I think) cousin of the famous Russian composer, wrote a book called "The Spiritual Significance of Forgiveness." Prokofieff is quite a scholar of Rudolf Steiner, the founder of the Anthroposophical Society (Waldorf Education, Eurhythmy, Biodynamic Gardening.) It's not easy reading. I'm still trying to forgive him for making the book so difficult to read!

zorya	21 Mar 2002
I think forgiving is something that we do for ourselves, not for the ones who wronged us. I believe that forgivness helps us all indirectly, when we are no longer creating more negative energy. Zorya

funkpuss	22 Mar 2002
After giving up everything in England to live with my French ex-boyfriend. I then found out that he was totolly obessed with prositutes and told me that he was bi. It's still very eary days as I have moved back to London homeless, jobless and very depressed. He should of told me before and thing may have been different. He still wants to be friends but I just need time to thinkif it's worth having someone who betrayed me in my life from day one. I need to move on at some point as anger is eating me up BIG TIME! FP

truthsayer	22 Mar 2002
funkpuss, i think as you rebuild your life from what happened, it will be easier for you to let go of what happened. you are still in the very early stages of healing. once you are feeling more healed, it will be easier to make a decision about forgiveness. please don't rush yourself. this is a journey not a destination. you'll learn much about yourself and others along the way. forgiveness really isn't a requirement for your ex-boyfriend. it's only important in the sense that you can forgive yourself of any self-directed anger. you deserve forgiveness. does he? i don't know but once you have processed the anger then you will know. whatever happens, you are in no way responsible for the lies he told you or his behavior. you are only responsible for your own feelings. ((((((((((((funkpuss)))))))))))))))))))))

funkpuss	23 Mar 2002
When I woke up this morning and read,I was touched by what you had to say! Truthsayer yes I agree it's still very early days and I need to think about myself! As one medium told me the other day that I was jumping bridges before crossing them. So I will try not to beat myself up and look after No.1 When I feel able and ready the next steps will come natrally but I know I've still got some healing to do. I think I will book myself a hoilday this weekend and have that to focus on instead of hanging on to something which is dead. Even though my ex is getting help himself that's not my problem. By the way I went to a different Meduim before the relationship even started and that Meduim was sooooo spot on! My ex want to see this Meduim, so I will go with him next month. BUT in no way do I intend to go back with him as that may be the last time he will see me. I think it would be could for him to seee her as it will confirm things for him what we are nolonger together. (sometimes it's better hearing it from someone else) But there i go again thinking about him. He has got to heal himself. I think that was my problem in all my past relationships, I was playing Mother Theresa! I need to love myself before I can love anyone else.

truthsayer	23 Mar 2002
Quote: Originally posted by funkpuss When I woke up this morning and read,I was touched by what you had to say! heal himself. I think that was my problem in all my past relationships, I was playing Mother Theresa! I need to love myself before I can love anyone else. glad i could help you feel better, funkpuss. what i said was very sincere even though i know you don't know me. i also recognize myself in playing "mother theresa". i've always been so altruistic. my real name is teresa and i actually even got nicknamed that by former clients. i put other ppl's pain over my own until i literally almost physically died. i was so far down i was licking dirt and all the ppl i was killing myself over weren't there to help me bail out. i learned a valuable lesson. even mother theresa had to follow a strict code of taking care of herself so that she would be able to care for others.(yes, i've even read books on mother theresa for some pointers! LOL) now i focus on taking care of myself. i once considered taking care of myself selfish but not any more."if i don't take care of myself then i can't help anyone else." i never really understood how true those words were until i couldn't even take care of me. go on your holiday, funkpuss. let yourself breathe. enjoy life to the max for a few days! your spirit really needs it right now. i'm glad to hear that you are going to do this. you deserve it and it shows you are trying to nurture and love yourself.

The Are capable of true forgiveness??? thread was originally posted on 03 Mar 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.