Could we do a 'Gods Study Group'?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Mar 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	17 Mar 2002
I was thinking how interesting and helpful it would be if a few people discussed different Gods and Goddesses, from all religions and times. Y'know, talk about what we see them like, what they mean to us, how we feel about them, any traditions associated with them, what their worshippers do, talk about any myths or legends they appear in, and possibly the archetypes and symbolism of them.... So, is this Study Groups Forum strictly for Tarot Decks, or could we possibly stretch it? Kiama

Kaz	17 Mar 2002
Kiama, I don't know really, this is a tarotforum, but if you want to set it up, it's ok by me. Maybe you should ask Solandia about this. Kaz

Emily	17 Mar 2002
The only God I know anything about is the Christian one, so I would love to learn about the God's and Goddess's of other religions past and present. (Well I know a little about Greek mythology and the Norse Gods) :)

Solandia	17 Mar 2002
The current Study Groups forum is for tarot only. A Gods study group would fit into the Spirituality forum, though. And if you start having a few groups I'll look at making a separate board. ~ Solandia

Kiama	18 Mar 2002
Okay, then! I'll start it up in Spirituality, if others want to take part. But I'll wait to see about other responses first. (Can't be having a group that nobody's in!) Kiama

Pollux	18 Mar 2002
I would definitely join you, Great Spirit!!! :) Surely I would. I'd love that! What a great idea! :) YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES !!!!!!!

slinky_jo	18 Mar 2002
Hey Kiama - what a cool idea! I'd be keen to participate as much as I can. I've got a lot of study n work to do this year, but I'll be in :D

Temperance413	21 Mar 2002
Kiama,I would love to be a part of the group if you'll have me?! Always interested in other views and "Gods" and religions!:)

kayne	21 Mar 2002
Great idea! Perhaps we could study them in terms of archtypes... for example we could have a thread about "Horned Gods" and discuss, compare and contrast various horned gods from a variety of backgrounds, eg Pan, Cernunnos, the Devil etc... There are a lot of gods and goddesses out there, this could be one way to approach them all... :)

Kiama	21 Mar 2002
Quote: Originally posted by kayne Great idea! Perhaps we could study them in terms of archtypes... for example we could have a thread about "Horned Gods" and discuss, compare and contrast various horned gods from a variety of backgrounds, eg Pan, Cernunnos, the Devil etc... There are a lot of gods and goddesses out there, this could be one way to approach them all... :) What a wonderful bit of genius there, Kayne! I think its a really good idea, and would definitely make it all alot easier to study.... Kiama

moondust	25 Mar 2002
What a great idea. I would definately be interested.

cjtarot	25 Mar 2002
Kiama, The God/Godess study group would be wonderful. I would love to learn, but wouldn't be much help because I only have 1 God. The knowledge would help greatly in learing the Goddess Tarot and all the Pagan/Wiccan based decks (which I seem to be drawn to). Let me know when and where..I'll be there. Cj

Diana	25 Mar 2002
This sounds a great idea. I'd love to join in. I'm pretty keen on the Roman Gods - could we include them too?

Kiama	25 Mar 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana This sounds a great idea. I'd love to join in. I'm pretty keen on the Roman Gods - could we include them too? All Gods are included. Judaeo-Christian Gods, Muslim versions, Sikh, Hindu, Jain, Shinto, Pagan, (Inclu. Roman, Greek, Norse, Egyptian, British, Gaelic, Welsh, Scottish, Babylonian, Sumerian... Any others you can think of!) Basically, if its a deity, we'll be studying it! Kiama

Diana	26 Mar 2002
When do we start? Kiama - are you going to be the big boss?

Pollux	27 Mar 2002
...this could actually be an official course of Kiama's College, and after this we might take a bit of an examination (don't really feel like it... ;)) and receive a certification by the Great Spirit herself... This might be a cornerstone in your istitution... Should we divide fiedls? Should we go each of us for a different civilization? I'd gladly have Indu... or Romans... or WHATEVER!!! :) Kiama, let's make this real!!!!

Maan	27 Mar 2002
Wauw I'm in I'm a mythology freek!!!!!

Kiama	27 Mar 2002
I like Pollux's idea of taking 'fields'. What does everyone else think? Shallwe all take a paticular civilization/culture, maybe two, and then post what we have found, letting everyone else contribute...? If so, then I Bagsy the Celtic Gods and the Judaeo-Christian-Platonic Gods! Kiama

kayne	28 Mar 2002
Not a bad idea... but... I think it would make more sense if we go by archtypes... It would make more sense to me anyway :p

Pollux	28 Mar 2002
Kayne, I love your idea (it is the ONLY one that could make sense :)) and accepting it was understood... I didn't explain myself clearly (as usual :p): I meant to say that, once the archetype is set, each of us could scour a cetain civilization/pantheon... For example: the Mother Goddess Pollux (Roman) - Juno Kiama (Celtic) - Ceridwen Kayne (Aboriginal) - who she is Diana (Norse) - Freya... (this only is a dummy example - I typed the first names that occurred to me) This way we could learn a lot but have the load divided between all of us...

Kiama	28 Mar 2002
What a good idea, Kayne and Pollux! Right, let's do that then! I've taken the Celtic and Judaeo-Christian-Platonic Gods, wo's gonna take what? Kiama

Pollux	28 Mar 2002
Kiama, I think you should limit to one... please! :) Unfortunately, I am no expert of any pantheon... but I have some more useful source of information on (Celtic, you picked) Hindu: Krishna, Parvati, Mitra... In addition, I should manage to come by a very well-done book regarding Eastern Mythology (Chinese, Japanese...). And, we could always use the Internet for searching informations, right? :D Better still, we could also post the links found, for further study and all... By the way: wouldn't it be useful to have a sort of list too, to make assignments? P.S. how many ideas!!!! Jealous? ;)

Malachite	28 Mar 2002
Wow...Hadn't seen this thread... Thx Kiama!... Definetly booking the Norse Pantheon here...Frigg, Freyja...et al...

kayne	28 Mar 2002
Wow - great organising Pollux and Kiama :) I could do aspects of Australian Aboriginality but would have to be very careful... I do not know a lot and it must be made clear that there are MANY different Aboriginal Language Groups... Many of whom are Christian now, thanks to the Missionaries and, along with their wonderfully diverse languages, many of there beliefs have been lost... I can do my best with information about Noongar (people of South-Western Australia) cultural beliefs though.

Pollux	29 Mar 2002
Kayne, don't sweat it. ;) Your choice surely is a difficult one, but probably the most effective: I doubt that we could find as much about Noongar Beliefs as for other religions or faiths... What is more, after all we are here to learn - and you will be learning while you teach! You'll provide us with particular, special knowledge indeed, and probably from the purest source: the aboriginal believers themselves. I am pleased you went for the Noongar: weren't it for you, I could learn next to nothing about them (provided that publications and books exist in the English-speaking countries). :) Malachite: I don't know why, but I was expecting such a choice... ;) Lastly, even though it is not sure we'll be granted space and the Study Group will take place, I have a topic to propose: why don't we discuss the Triple Goddess? Orthe Triple God? I don't know if there's always one (Sarasvati/Parvati/Lakshmi; Brahma/Shive/Vishnu; Proserpina/Selene/Artemide; Celts have tons: Triple Nemetona, Triple Brigit... Malachite, is there a Triple Freya too? I think so...).

Kiama	29 Mar 2002
A list of all th pantheons I can think of, nd if they are assigned already. Greek Roman Celtic (Kiama) Norse (Malachite) Aboriginal (Possibly Kayne) Babylonian Persian Sumerian Hindu Judaeo-Christian-Platonic (Kiama) Sikh Chinese Japanese (Do they have a panthen?) Um... Any others? Feel free to suggest some! Pollux: With reference to topic discussions, Triple Deities will be included. Btw: There is a Triple Goddess within Norse, Frigg being the Mother/Wife aspect, Freyja being the Lover/Mistress aspect, and the dim figure of Skadi forming a possible blend of Crone/Huntress, and Maiden/Virgin.... Kayne: Have you read anything by AW Reed? This writer has managed to gain from the Aborigines some of their myths and legends, aswell as language. The two books I've read by her are very good. Here's an off-the-cuff list of psible topic discussions: Creator Deities Triple Deities Mother Father Virgin (Both male and female, although prominently female) Crone (Both male and female, basically the wiseman/woman aspect) Divine Child Dying and Ressurecting Godman Lover (Bothe male and female) Skilled Magician/Shapeshifter/Soothsayer Trickster Death deities and guardians of otherworlds/Destryer Deities Messengers (ould possibly be covered ner Magicians?) Elemental Deities (Earth, Air, Fire, Water Deities) Cheif Deities ('Leaders' of the Gods') Deities of Luck/Chance/Fate Deities of the home, birth, children, family Deities of War Physician/Healer Deities Deities of Knowledge/Justice/Law and Order And any others you can think of! Kiama

Maan	29 Mar 2002
Egypt god's?????:o I don't know if thats correct. Could'nt find it in the dictionary:( but you know the ones i mee ( Horus,Isis,Osirus,Seth etc)

Malachite	30 Mar 2002
Pollux:.. the usual triple is Skadi (virgin), Freyja, Frigg, although freyja and Frigg are kind of different facets of the same thing...from a theological point of view, they are kinda the same...They're divine partners have the same name, for example... Skadi, Freyja/Frigg, Gefn might make better reading from the point of view of finding a crone figure... There are quite a lot of triple-brothers as well... Odin, Vili, Ve Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Any in Celtic?... They tend to divide up sky/earth/sea between them... It would be particularly interesting to see if that shows up outside the old indo-european sphere, since they kinda evolved from the same aspects... Anyone up for Maya/Inca/Aztec etc?...

slinky_jo	30 Mar 2002
Don't forget the New Zealand MAORI

Raven	30 Mar 2002
I'm looking forward to this too. Will you post it here when you make the switch to the Spirituality board? Thanks, Light and Love, Raven

Malachite	31 Mar 2002
Greek...Pelasgian/Olympian Roman Celtic (Kiama) Norse (Malachite) Aboriginal (Possibly Kayne) Babylonian/Sumeria (kinda the same, Methinks...) Persian Hindu Judaeo-Christian-Platonic (Kiama) Sikh Chinese Japanese Maya/Aztec Inca Maori Orixa (WestAfrican/Central American) For anyone wanting to do the Greek styles, I have a copy of Graves' Greek Myths with the Pelasgian, Olympian, Philosophical and Orphic creation stories...whoever gets to do that, mail me if you need it...

Kiama	31 Mar 2002
Another update of the list of pantheons.... Greek...Pelasgian/Olympian Roman Celtic (Kiama) Norse (Malachite) Aboriginal (Possibly Kayne) Babylonian/Sumeria (kinda the same, Methinks...) Persian Hindu Judaeo-Christian-Platonic (Kiama) Sikh Chinese Japanese Maya/Aztec Inca Maori Orixa (WestAfrican/Central American) Egyptian

Niove	31 Mar 2002
Can you narrow these topics to one diety per person? I would like to do the Egyptian god, Thoth/Hob.

Kiama	01 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Niove Can you narrow these topics to one diety per person? I would like to do the Egyptian god, Thoth/Hob. I don't think there would be enough people to do this! :( And it would also be difficult to do one deity per person, cuz we are investigating them by archetype, not by name. Although, if you wanted, you could take the whole of the Egyptian pantheon....? Kiama

arizonagirl	01 Apr 2002
Great idea, Kiama. Thank you for another splendid contribution. I'm in.

Kiama	01 Apr 2002
ArizonaGirl: Glad you're in! What pantheon would you like? (Please take one! There are so many, but nobody seems to want one!) Kiama

Diana	01 Apr 2002
I know absolutely nothing about the Hindu Gods. But I'd love to take them and then study them as I go along. Would that be okay, even if I'm a novice on them?

arizonagirl	02 Apr 2002
Kiama, I'll take Roman. You're gonna give us some guidelines, aren't you?

kayne	02 Apr 2002
I can't wait to get this one started!!!! Let's go Kiama :D We could start with Pollux's suggestion, triple goddesses... Or maybe, to start at the 'beginning' we could do god/esses related to creation... I'm sure people will throw in there knowledge about various gods / goddesses from different pantheons whether they have been assigned that one or not... Perhaps being assigned one will ensure an entry from each of the different pantheons though :)

zorya	02 Apr 2002
may i have slavic area gods please?

Malachite	02 Apr 2002
Zorya:.... Sure Thing...I for one would be interested to find out more, since i don;t think i know the name of a single Slavic deity... Sorry we missed them!...;-) So..That gives Us: Greek (Pelasgian/Olympian)... Roman ...................................arizonagirl Celtic .....................................Kiama Norse.....................................Malachite Aboriginal...............................Kayne Babylonian/Sumeria............... Persian..................................purplelady Hindu.....................................Diana Judaeo-Christian-Platonic......Kiama Sikh ....................................... Chinese.................................. Japanese................................ Maya/Aztec.............................All is One Inca ....................................... Maori......................................All is One Orixa......................................(if we're short, i;ll take this one too) Egyptian.................................Strange2 Slavic......................................Zorya

Strange2	02 Apr 2002
Sign me up for the Egyptian gods. I've alway have a very strong interest in Ancient Egyptian mythology and culture. I have quite a few Egyptian reference books, and being a supporting member of the Oriental Institute in Chicago, I have access to some world class research materials!

All Is One	02 Apr 2002
I'm not sure what is exactly involved in the study group, but the only way I'll ever find out is to try! If no one has taken on the Greek or the Mayan gods, I'll do it. . .I have the reference books to cover it, I believe. Japanese/Chinese taken yet? (Only want one- or two- but what ever is n't taken, I'll go for it) Alison

purplelady	02 Apr 2002
. :cool: Can I take persian? :TMOON :TSTAR (I just noticed bunches of new emoticons!) Don't even know of any "persian gods"or goddesses but I'd like to research it and find out. I'm not even sure if there are persian gods per se, or if their gods would be hindu or something like that. I'm willing to find out though!

slinky_jo	03 Apr 2002
Ummmmmmmm - I know I suggested we cover MAORI, but I dunno if I know enough! All my info would come from the internet, as I don't know of any good books. So if someone else wants to cover it, you're welcome to! PS - I'm not being a lazy bum, I'm busy with study n work n a hungry grumpy partner who always needs feeding and tending to. hmm - maybe if I drop him......?!?!? ;)

All Is One	03 Apr 2002
I know very little of the Maori besides what I saw in the film "The Piano" (LOVE Harvey Keitel in that flick)... but don't they come from New Zealand? I would take the Maori pantheon if I could, based just on their ritual tattooing and the few other films I saw on them. . .but if you need to dump the grump, you could prob find a few more reasons than an on-line study group? and if not- I think you love him? (hee hee, I love the irrationality of the universe...add love and all our "rationality" dissolves into the pull of the moon on the tides, and the tug of the tides upon the moon. . .)

slinky_jo	03 Apr 2002
Corse I love him All Is One!! Did you know that The Piano is my FAVOURITE film! And yes, the Maori DO come from NZ! PS - If you want to take this pantheon, go for it - I'm not fussed :)

Malachite	03 Apr 2002
Made a few changes to the list so far... All is One...seeing as you gave four to choose from, i picked two...if you want different ones, shout!...;)

zorya	03 Apr 2002
so, how does a study group work, and when do we start? :)

purplelady	03 Apr 2002
slinky-jo, My information will most likely come from the internet also. But I figure, what Can't you find on the internet? If I can't find this online then that will be a first for me ever! And if that happens I'll just go to the public library. And if it's not at the library , I can go to Barnes-N-Nobel, sit in one of their chairs and sip starbucks coffee. I'd be willing to bet they have a few books there on everything we're looking for.

Kiama	03 Apr 2002
Hang on: Didn't Pollux volunteer for the Hindu Gods a while back? I know Diana's down for them but I'm sure Pollux volunteered earlier... I don't want to be mean to Diana, and if Pollux doesn't mind, maybe he'll let her have teh Hindu Gods, but I thought it was first come, first served... I think the Greek is an important one, and am surprised nobody's taken it yet... Don't suppose somebody who's only got one would like to try it out? Unless someone with none wants it though.... Zorya: What we'll do is be given the title of the thread, eg- Mother Goddesses, and go away and research all the Mother Goddesses in our respective pantheon, including things such as (If possible): - Stories, myths, legends - Similarities to any other pantheons, although this may come out in the discussion later on - What they mean with respect to the whole pantheon - Their importance to the culture that believe in that deity - Any traditional practices/cult/festivals they have - Symbols, eg- The Crone Goddess Cerridwen in Celtic mythology has teh symbol of a sow, and a cauldron. And anything esle you can think of! Then, we 'report back', by posting a thread, and each of us posting on that thread what we have found out, and then discussing it... There's a working list of possible threads on this thread somewhere, if you guys wanna have a look and add to/take away from/criticise/bash to hell and back..... Kiama

purplelady	03 Apr 2002
Starting to get nervous about whether there really even is a persian pantheon of Gods and Goddesses or if they share with another culture like hindu for instance, I went to http://www.google.com/ for anyone who needs to look up a god or goddess , this place should suffice. My quick search only brought up about 90 PAGES OF SEARCH RESULTS FOR PERSIAN GODS AND GODDESSES! I think that should work. I couldn't name a persian god or goddess if my life depended on it. I know nothing about it. But I'm sure I will learn something! I'm getting kind-of excited about this project!

Strange2	03 Apr 2002
In our research and findings on the various pantheons, I think it would be helpful and fun to also point out examples of which Tarot decks and cards the particular god/goddess are depicted in. This would tie in nicely with our other Tarot studies here on Aeclectic.

arizonagirl	04 Apr 2002
I'm more familiar with the Greek gods/goddesses than the Roman, but figured that maybe I'd learn something if I took the harder path. That being said, if anyone wants the Roman, I'd be glad to take the Greek.

zorya	04 Apr 2002
you might want to do both arizona girl, most of them are identical with names changed.

Kiama	04 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Strange2 In our research and findings on the various pantheons, I think it would be helpful and fun to also point out examples of which Tarot decks and cards the particular god/goddess are depicted in. This would tie in nicely with our other Tarot studies here on Aeclectic. What a great idea! Yep, we could do this, definitely! Thanks, Strange2! Kiama

All Is One	04 Apr 2002
It is my favorite movie- of course. I know zip on Maori religion, but they are incredibly interesting as a culture. I think it will be a challenge no matter which ones we pick!! Slinky, I hope you take them because we'll all learn, and you may have to ask Malachite to let you off the pin. I'm open. . . I can't wait to start- it's like being back in University w/out the damn pressure! Malachite- which two did you pick for me? I'll scroll backwards and maybe I can answer my own Q, because I'm pretty new at computers and quite willing to admit it.

Bella	05 Apr 2002
Leave it to me to jump in late (I can usually only do this at work). Kiama: can I add a new group? I'd like to do Native American (North America). As the number of tribes are so numerous, and I'm not sure of the extent of crossover, I may need to narrow this down (e.g., Plains, Southwest, etc.) depending on how much info I can get. Would this be ok? Please?!

Kiama	05 Apr 2002
Bella: Of course you can add a new group! Feel free! It would be great to have the Native American pantheon to look at too, so thankyou so much for volunteering! Kiama

Kiama	05 Apr 2002
Updated list:Greek (Pelasgian/Olympian)... Roman ...................................arizonagirl Celtic .....................................Kiama Norse.....................................Malachite Aboriginal...............................Kayne Babylonian/Sumeria............... Persian..................................purplelady Hindu.....................................Diana Judaeo-Christian-Platonic......Kiama Sikh ....................................... Chinese.................................. Japanese................................ Maya/Aztec.............................All is One Inca ....................................... Maori......................................All is One Orixa......................................(if we're short, Malachite will take this one too) Egyptian.................................Strange2 Slavic......................................Zorya Native American......................Bella Still waiting to hear fom Pollux/Diana about the Hindu Gods mix-up... Kiama

Maan	05 Apr 2002
So if i understand correctly nobody is doing the Greek gods? 'cause i be willing But you all have to promise not to mind the many spelling errors:o

Diana	05 Apr 2002
Kiama, I didn't realise that Pollux had wanted to do the Hindu gods. Must have missed out on some posts. Of course he can do them if he wants to. That's no problem with me at all (and I'm sincere about this). So if you want them, Pollux, I'll take the Japanese ones, okay? Will help me along with my Ancestral Path Tarot deck, so this would be just fine. But if he doesn't want them, I'll stick to the Hindu ones.

Melvis	06 Apr 2002
Ack! I waited too long to join! I thought I should get caught up with the 78DW Study Group before I started in with a new one, and I missed my chance for the Mayans! :D Oh well. I guess I can use this as an excuse to buy books on a new subject! ;) Do you mind another latecomer to the group? I'd love to split the Native Americans with Bella if she would like. I'm more familiar with the tribes from the Midwest, the Ojibway and the Lakota, so I'd love to do those. I also have some slight ancestral ties to one of the Abnaki tribes of the Northeast U.S. and Eastern Canada. What do you think, Bella? If you'd prefer to cover the Native North Americans yourself, I'd be willing to try the Incans. Hey, I'm flexible! Thanks in advance, Peace, Melvis

Diana	06 Apr 2002
Kiama: Pollux and I have sorted out the mix-up. So he will do the Hindu Gods. I'll do the Japanese ones. Can't wait to start.

Kiama	06 Apr 2002
Oh, gosh, so here's another edit.... Greek (Pelasgian/Olympian)...Maan Roman ...................................arizonagirl Celtic .....................................Kiama Norse.....................................Malachite Aboriginal...............................Kayne Babylonian/Sumeria...............purplelady, possibly Moondust Persian...................................purplelady Hindu......................................Pollux Judaeo-Christian-Platonic.......Kiama Sikh ....................................... Chinese.................................. Japanese................................Diana Maya/Aztec.............................All is One Inca ....................................... Maori......................................All is One Orixa......................................(if we're short, Malachite will take this one too) Egyptian.................................Strange2 Slavic......................................Zorya Native American......................Bella- depending on what happens with Melvis and Bella, this one may be split between North and South.. Sateria, Cadomblé, Voodoo....

purplelady	07 Apr 2002
I've volunteered for Persian , which I do want! I noticed no one has taken Babylonian/Sumeria. I'm thinking of asking for it in addition to Persia Only if no one else wants it! I'm not sure if that would be too difficult or confusing? I have some questions though that have been bugging me! I have done a small amount of research, not a lot so far. Learned that there are indeed Persian gods and goddesses! I've also determined that "Persia" is now known as Iran. (Well , I knew that already) Iraq ,on the other hand , used to be ancient Babylon, and Babylon long long long ago was "Sumer"(Sumerian). But if Iraq can be traced to Babylon and before that Sumer, What is "Persia" (Iran) traced back to? (I was concerned that these 2 , persia and Babylon may overlap in ancient roots and so may share gods and goddesses but apparently not) Nobody seems to have the answer! Not my son , the geography wiz, nor the encyclopedia, nor anyone else. My son said that maybe they were just tribes of ancient people before the land known as persia but not a known ancient civilization? One thing though , there is Tons of info on (in persia) which ruler ruled when and what land and other civilizations they conquered and went to war with. A big deal to them obviously! Anyhow , I hope that when I read more I'll figure out the answer to my puzzling and silly question! BUT if anyone happens to actually know the answer could you fill me in on it so I can get some sleep?! (just kidding!) An interesting tidbit, I watched one of those educational shows not too long ago about these ancient civilizations. It was about the Tower of Babylon and the bibical story of the fall of the tower. Well , apparently the ruins of this tower do exist in Iraq and Sudam Hussin is rebuilding the tower of babylon! Also I guess the bible predicts something to do with this.............

Bella	08 Apr 2002
Melvis: We can work out split if you'd like. I was thinking of narrowing it down to Plains (which includes Lakota, yes?), if necessary, since I'm studying the language... I'm sure there is enough diversity for both of us!! Let me know how you'd like to work this out. -Bella

Kiama	08 Apr 2002
Purplelady: Unfortunately, I know nothing about the similarities in origin of Persian, Sumerian, and Babylonian pantheons, however, when you're sure, just let me know if you want to take on the Babylonian/Sumerian. I'll 'pencil' you in as a possible for them for now. Kiama

Malachite	08 Apr 2002
Don't worry, Purplelady, they come from different roots...Ancient Persia was known as Elam, which was a contemporary and enemy of Sumer/Akkad for most of its history...Although there might still be a god-trade between the two....

moondust	08 Apr 2002
I have no idea what I'm doing, but if it is okay with purplelady I will volunteer to take on the Babylonian/Sumerian portion. Let me know if it's okay. This looks exciting. moondust

All Is One	09 Apr 2002
I am happy to jump both the Maori and the Mayan/Aztec that Malachite and Kiama have listed for me. . . but for those of you out there like the person (was it Melvis?) who said they wished they'd gotten in on this sooner- I'd be more than happy to split some of these or give one to anyone who didn't get a pantheon of their own! I don't think we'd come up with too much duplicated information, and who would shoot us at dawn if we did? I can't wait to get started. . .First thing I need to do is find out why Mayan and Aztec are grouped together, 'cause I thought the Mayans worshiped fairly middle of the road, relatively nice gods, in comparison to the blood- thirsty "we demand the beating hearts of all the virgins in the land" gods of the Aztecs. I think Malachite knows a lot more about this than I do, so I'm going with it as one group until someone says otherwise. Just in case anyone did feel they missed out, I would take the Maori and give up the Mayan/Aztec. . . Don't want to hog all the research to myself- how greedy! Til I hear otherwise, I'm on both ^ ^ V

Malachite	09 Apr 2002
All is One.... lol...! I'm a long way short of expert, here, ok!... As far as i'd heard so far, so correct me if i'm wrong, the difference between the aztec and maya was that the aztecs took all the Mayan holy references seriously...so flaying of the soul, and sacrifices of the spirit became entirely different things... I don;t know how different the pantheon became...I kind of assumed that the Aztecs simply added a few of their own tribal deities, and swallowed the rest whole...albeit undercooked... If everyone knows better, shout!....

All Is One	09 Apr 2002
Good one, Malachite! I'm really intrigued now (and a lot less hungry for dinner. . .) I'll be on line and in our dusty little library trying to sort some of this out. I'm really glad I picked areas of colossal ignorance on my part- I'm sure to learn much. I like the answer you gave, it's sort of the Christians borrowing the gentle earthmother and other Pagan dieties and suddenly...cha-ching, POW! Next thing you know, people are getting nailed to crosses in the name of someone's idea of religious worship! Boy, I hate it when that happens. (Not making light of it, just lightening my Self up a bit...)

Kiama	09 Apr 2002
Moondust: If its okay with PurpleLady, then we'll put you down for Sumerian/Babylonian. Melvis and Bella: So, what's it gonna be? Who's taking North? Who's taking South? I also suddenly had a brain wave... What about the Candomblé, Santeria, and Voodoo pantheon? Ill add it to the list, and if anyone wants to take it, shout! Kiama

Malachite	09 Apr 2002
How close is the Santeria to the Orixa?...They might fall under the same bracket if someone wants to take those....

ajoite	09 Apr 2002
Hi Kiama I’m not quite sure what you mean by pantheon But yes I would be interested in the God study group Sorry for pressing the wrong button, do I sign up here or else where

All Is One	09 Apr 2002
If Melvis still wants to do the Aztec, and/or the Mayan, I'd like to split or take on the voodoo (voudun/ Orixa) pantheon as my first choice- but I'll stick with what I've committed to, and also cover whatever I can of whatever winds up being left undone. (still trying for all those unfinished Girl Scout badges, I guess?) Since I was born in New Orleans, I'd really like to take the Voudoun- and my other primary interest is the Maori (know nada on it). From what I've read, Santeria is a seperate (although similar enough) deal, originating not in the carribean but in Mexica...and pretty much based completely on negative power worshipers. Hope this isn't messing things up- I'll stick with my full plate here if no one else wants in on the Aztec/Mayan... When do we need to be ready to start posting our info?

Melvis	09 Apr 2002
Holy cow! So many choices! :D I'd sent Bella a PM to try to figure out who was doing what, but now I'm so conflicted! All is One: that is sooo generous of you to offer to give up the Aztec & Maya! Would it be pure selfishness on my part to say, "Yes, please! I'd love to take them both! Thank you thank you thank you!!!" :D ;) Actually, I would be more comfortable covering the Maya since, in addition to other resources, I have the Xultun Mayan Tarot and a Mayan Oracle Deck! So...I'll take the Aztec & Maya if that's all right with you, All is One; Bella, I guess now you can have *all* the Native Americans of the U.S. and Canada, if you are so moved! Yippee! :) Peace, Melvis

All Is One	09 Apr 2002
Hi Melvis! Looks like everyone wins. . . If Malachite still wants to do the voodoo/Orixa, that's Ok, I'd like to , but either way is great- I'll definitely stay with the Maori! :0 :0 :) :)

moondust	09 Apr 2002
Melvis, Your post was so cute & funny. Great sometimes how the simple things in life bring such enthusiastic animation. All in One, WOW good luck with the voodoo, I think you brave for that one!!!!!!! If you are into Tarot, have you ever seen "The Tapestry Deck", altho it's not termed anywhere as a voodoo deck, it gives me certain feelings that somehow it might be connected. But it's not Louisiana voodoo, it's like a Hebrew Voodoo. At the very least it is a very "organic" deck, that seems to come alive soon after working with it. I cannot work with it for very long spells. It is very strange. Sorry to go off track here, just it came to mind . Moondust

Malachite	10 Apr 2002
All is One... No, thats ok!...You can have them!...(although I still don;t know how closely related they all are...!)

Kiama	10 Apr 2002
Okay then, I'll change the list! Now, how long do we give everyone to research? I mean, if we say that I give the title of the thread, then each person goes away and researches for that thread, how long would we need? a week? 2? Depends on how big the topic is really... I mean, 'Creator Gods/Goddesses would problably take longer than 'Gods of the Sea'... Ajiote: Yep, you sign up here! If you want, pick a pantheon, and we'll sort it out. Kiama

Kiama	10 Apr 2002
New List: Greek (Pelasgian/Olympian)...Maan Roman ...................................arizonagirl Celtic .....................................Kiama Norse.....................................Malachite Aboriginal...............................Kayne Babylonian/Sumeria...............Moondust Persian...................................purplelady Hindu......................................Pollux Judaeo-Christian-Platonic.......Kiama Sikh ....................................... Chinese..................................Ajoite Japanese................................Diana Maya/Aztec.............................Melvis Inca ....................................... Maori......................................All is One Orixa/Voodoo..........................All is One Egyptian.................................Strange2 Slavic......................................Zorya Native American......................Bella

arizonagirl	10 Apr 2002
Kiama - we need a guideline of what you expect from us.

ajoite	10 Apr 2002
Not too much left to pick from so I'll pick the Japanese.....

Bella	10 Apr 2002
Melvis: Hey, I take one day off of work, can't check my e-mails, and end up with the entire native North American continent! I actually sent you a response to your message (before I got here), but just in case you read this first, it was a great idea! Alas... So... if anyone still wants in and wants to split the Native Americas with me, let me know. I'm narrowing mine down to Plains/Southwest. -Bella

Kiama	10 Apr 2002
Ajoite: Do you mean Chinese? Diana's already got the Japanese. ArizonaGirl: Here's rough guidelines of what I propose we should do. (I'd prefer others to give their say on this too, so this is just my proposal. Feel free to criticise it, offer ideas, etc...) 1) You pick the pantheon you want to 'do' and notify by posting on this thread. 2) When we have enough people, or we are pretty sure nobody else is gonna join, we will begin. 3) I give you the 'type' of deity to research within the pantheon you have chosen, eg- Mother Goddesses, and I post that title as a thread. Here's the list of possible 'types' of deities we could do. Again, feel free to discuss these, criticise, and offer ideas! Creator Deities Triple Deities Mother Father Virgin (Both male and female, although prominently female) Crone (Both male and female, basically the wiseman/woman aspect) Divine Child Dying and Ressurecting Godman Lover (Bothe male and female) Skilled Magician/Shapeshifter/Soothsayer Trickster Death deities and guardians of otherworlds/Destroyer Deities Messengers (Could possibly be covered with Magicians?) Elemental Deities (Earth, Air, Fire, Water Deities) Chief Deities ('Leaders' of the Gods') Deities of Luck/Chance/Fate Deities of the home, birth, children, family Deities of War Physician/Healer Deities Deities of Knowledge/Justice/Law and Order Deities of Agriculture/Farming 4) You get about 1-2 weeks to research that topic within your pantheon. (Number of weeks depends on title! Creator Gods will take more time than Gods of the Sea, for instance!) 5) When you are finished researching, you 'report back' to the rest of us, with what you have found, by posting it under the thread that I put up. If you finish researching before the 'deadline', that's fine, post it up early! 6) We discuss what we have found out, comparing the different pantheon's view of the 'types' of deities, their similarities, etc... 7) We do another topic! What you could include in you research: - Stories, myths, legends - Similarities to any other pantheons, although this may come out in the discussion later on - What they mean with respect to the whole pantheon - Their importance to the culture that believe in that deity - Any traditional practices/cult/festivals they have - Symbols, eg- The Crone Goddess Cerridwen in Celtic mythology has the symbol of a sow, and a cauldron. And anything else you can think of! So, what do you guys think? Kiama

All Is One	10 Apr 2002
Thanks for the guidelines, Kiama...they are concise and very helpful. This whole endeavor is coming together. Hope someone takes on the Sikh: that would be so interesting... Any takers?

ajoite	10 Apr 2002
Chinese wiil do

purplelady	10 Apr 2002
I would be thrilled if moondust would take babylonia/Sumerian! Then I will still take persian. Malachite , and Kiama, thank you for the info on persia! Ancient "Elam" hmmmm, not sure if I've ever heard of it but sounds intriguing, and you are the only person I know who knew that! I am not at all surprised that they were enemies of Sumer. Just from my brief looking over of some information on persia, it is Filled with tales of much preoccupation with war and conquest. Now I have a new curiousity! I know that the mayans lived before the Aztecs...........but where did the Aztecs come from exactly? Did they just show up one day to conquer the mayans?

zorya	10 Apr 2002
sounds good kiama! could we include dieties of agriculture/planting/harvest etc?

purplelady	10 Apr 2002
I think at Least 2 weeks per subject would be best. Some of us tend to procrastinate and be a bit slower! Plus what if we have a busy work schedule or a family crisis or something on any given week.

Kiama	10 Apr 2002
Purplelady: I've changed the Babylonian/Sumerian, so that Moondust now oficially has that one. Also, thanks for your input on the 2 week thing. I agree with what you sad: Very perceptive. 2 weeks it is! Ajoite: Chinese it is! Thank you so much! Zorya: What a good idea, I've included it already! Thankyou! Kiama

Melvis	10 Apr 2002
Purplelady: From the little I've read so far, the Aztecs were originally a nomadic tribe that founded modern day Mexico City (named Tenochtitlan back then) in 1325. The "Classic Period" for the Mayans was nearly 500 years before that. The Mayans were never a single major power like the Aztecs became in a relatively short time. Most of the ancient Mayans, Toltecs, Olmecs, and Mexicas (all various tribes from Central America) spent their time in city-states that did the usual amount of bickering and trading with each other. There were still some Mayan city-states around when the Spanish arrived in the 15th century, though. That's what I could gather so far. Of course, judging by the literature I've found, much of the history of this area is up for interpretation. I'm sure I'll run into other opinions of who came from where and who conquered whom! Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

kayne	11 Apr 2002
Kiama: Do you mean that we should limit discussion till after the two week period so that people have a chance to post there findings? You have done a great job with organising Kiama! I wish I could attend your tarot course this summer - you are a born leader :TEMPR :TSTRE

Kiama	11 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by kayne Kiama: Do you mean that we should limit discussion till after the two week period so that people have a chance to post there findings? I think I understand what you're asking.... Let me think. Right, I give the thread title, you guys get 2 weeks at least to go away and research. If you're done before the 2 weeks, fine, post what you have found. By all means, we can discuss what we have found early. Is that what you wanted to know? Kiama

Pollux	11 Apr 2002
I think threads go on forever, so we shouldn't worry about "closing" it or going on to another subject/archetype, right? How long are we discussing a certain archetype, then? After how much time we pick another?

Kiama	11 Apr 2002
Good question, Pollux! I reckon we should be discussing it for about a week-3 weeks, which will give us all plenty of time to explore it. But, after about a week, shall we then start researching another topic? Kiama

ajoite	11 Apr 2002
Great I have already done some research in this area, as I own 2 water dragons and named them Shen lung, (the Spiritual Dragon who controls the wind and rain.) and Ti lung, (the Earth Dragon who controls the rivers and ground waters). together known as the Wang Lung, and are propitiated as water deities, dwelling in the Seas. There is also Tien-Lung, the Celestial Dragon, which protects the House of Gods, and Fut’s-Lung, The Underworld Dragon which guards the precious metals and gems. I choose dragon names from the Chinese culture because I liked the symbology behind it, “The Chinese Dragon is often seen as the symbol of divine protection and vigilance. It is regarded as the Supreme Being amongst all creatures. It has the ability to live in the seas, fly up the heavens and coiled up in the land in the form of mountains. Being the divine mythical animal, the Dragon can ward off wandering evil spirits, protect the innocent and bestow safety to all that hold his emblem. The Chinese Dragon is look upon as the ultimate symbol of Good Fortune” I also searched dragons from other cultures and found some pretty interesting comparisons. When I see dragons in my cards now, I definitely have a better understanding than I did before. I can see that this study group will be a lot of fun and very informative. What a great way to learn.

moondust	11 Apr 2002
OKAY!!!!!! Looks like we are close to a go. Thanks for setting me up with the Sumer/Babylon. Went to library to see what they had. Not much at this one, but other branches have more books to offer. Will we be waiting until the last few categories are assigned?? It is a beautiful spring day. Peace within, moondust

kayne	12 Apr 2002
This all sounds like a good excuse to invest in some books on Australian Aboriginal Spirituality :)

Kiama	12 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by moondust Will we be waiting until the last few categories are assigned?? I think we would be at a loss without the Sikh pantheon.... Does anyone wanna double up and take this one aswell as the one they're already doing? It would be so interesting to study this one.... Kiama

All Is One	12 Apr 2002
Truly scared and totally ignorant of what is a Sikh ( you folk bring out my most honest and redundant inner 3 year old!) But in the La airport they were dressed in alot of white, seven (!) feet tall... huge bushels of beard, and refused to speak...AT ALL. They surely have a few interesting Gods or ...they are from Tralfamadore, which was my initial impression at age 8. Alison I have Voodoo gods and Maori ( I'm not gonna admit I'm clueless, becus...I know the alphabet and I want to find this stuff.) A plea: somebody take the Sikhs- just so I can lay to rest those scary memories that have left such deep scars upon my fragile mind (LOL

Kiama	12 Apr 2002
All Is One: Ah, have no fear, for I am ignorant of Sikhism too! I know its a religion, I know they have Gods somewhere... That really is it! Kiama

All Is One	12 Apr 2002
Hey Kiama: It would be so helpful if those hidden or "in the closet" Sikhs who may dwell amonst us, here at A.T. would just speak up and reveal themselves? All I need to know at the moment is: why are they all over 7 feet tall? Alison

Malachite	12 Apr 2002
All is One... I guess its genetic...sikhism isn't one of those religions you convert to... I'm ok with taking the Sikhs, if thats ok...I think i conform to about 6 of the 7 holy rules at the moment anyway, ...so if no-one minds?

Kiama	12 Apr 2002
Malachite, you're down for Sikh! You're a saviour, thanks! So, what date shall we begin? Kiama

All Is One	12 Apr 2002
Oh Malachite- how, just someday tell me HOW you know so much! And if you feel like confiding...which of the 6-7 rules do you comply with? Gee, I never pictured you as seven feet tall, or w/ a three foot bushy beard! I'm so curious about Sikhs, and they are so stoical... (or do even I look like that in the LAX airport??) Looking forward to your confession (kidding)... to your report! Alison *yawning, on the way to bed*

Malachite	12 Apr 2002
Actually...i think its a bit less than 6... I havnt got into the habit of shaving every morning yet, so thats one... I havnt had alcohol for ages...(i think thats one) I usually have a useful penknife on me somewhere...so thats another... However, not wearing a turban, and not wearing an orange cord... I'm not sure what the others are, but i think one of them is to do with slippers....

Kiama	12 Apr 2002
I thought the Sikhs had 5 rules, known as the 5 K's: That turban, the hair, the knife, something else, and something else, all beginning with K... Kiama

Malachite	12 Apr 2002
wow.... maybe I'm totally thinking of something else.... In fact, your right..(wondering where 7 came from, and why i haven;t had a drink yet)... and sounding silly,,,thanks kim! ;)

All Is One	12 Apr 2002
I made it to citizen by total accident... so call me what ever comes to mind!(LOL) Mal- You and your tall and knowledgable self shall hopefully confide all your secrets about those slippers...or what ever it is you are keeping under that hugemongus toadstool in your back yard. (oops- not materialised yet? I'm pretty sleppy- and signing myself off... -wow SLEPPY must be scary, it sure sounds like a bad state of mind!) I suppose, as usual, my toadstool of enormous and frightening proportions will manifest.......when it is good and ready. Enjoy it- I sent it in five color profuse Spring ideas. Your slipper rituals.....I may not be mature or tall enough (oh secret sikh) to actually deal with and not require more therapy. I'm off to bed short and slipperless... Alison

Malachite	12 Apr 2002
ummm...did you eat any of that toadstool?....

All Is One	12 Apr 2002
I never eat anything I don't know that ancestry of, the gpa of, and the karmic consequences I would entail... You may want to indulge (did it show up yet, the lazy thing? Me spells are as "slepy" as meself... so now I am sending it to you face first- ) Where is my evil twin, Kayne? How can I sleep w/out knowing he is happy and not out doing mischief? (As I am?) me, as always

Malachite	12 Apr 2002
Didn't mean to be insulting...that was supposed to be a joke, but i forgot to smother it in smilies.... :);):) but that really was the spinniest post i have ever read anywhere.... Ten Points!... *off to check garden*

kayne	12 Apr 2002
Malachite: You should have seen the PM I got from All Is One then! If only I could type as lucidly when I get so tired... instead I just have trouble finding the keys! Fear not All Is One - I am alive and not getting up to (much) mischief... my computer spat it... hence why I disappeared. Well Kiama: I think you have done an excellent organisation job :) When to start? I say - go for it! :D

Diana	12 Apr 2002
Malachite, as far as I know, you're not going to have much to tell us about Sikh gods. Because they only have one, as far as I know. It is a relatively new religion and monotheist. But I'm not going to tell you more - after all, my task is to study the Japanese :)

Malachite	12 Apr 2002
Besides that, I know very little about sikhism, so i;m not sure if they have polytheistic relics like old judaism.... oh well...in for a penny...;)

zorya	13 Apr 2002
sorry kiama ;) but i thought of another one, dieties of the sun/moon and stars.

gloworm102	13 Apr 2002
Count me in. Great idea.

Kiama	13 Apr 2002
Zorya: Thanks for that! I'll ad it in the FAQ thread. GlowWorm: Would you like to take on the Incas? Or would you prefer not to? Kiama

lairkeeper	13 Apr 2002
Hi, I'm new to the board(pagan mommy, student and lingerie sales lady-theres your intro) and was wondering if this study group would work like a question and answer. (and is it moving?) Thanks, Paula

gloworm102	14 Apr 2002
OK Kiama, I'm willing. Must brush up a bit first 'tho. Bit rusty

Kiama	14 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by lairkeeper Hi, I'm new to the board(pagan mommy, student and lingerie sales lady-theres your intro) and was wondering if this study group would work like a question and answer. (and is it moving?) Thanks, Paula What we're doing is people have chosen a pantheon each to research, and every 2 weeks we are researching a different 'type' of deity within that pantheon, then reporting back with our findings, and discussing it. So, as an example: I have chosen to research the Celtic Deities. The current 'type' we are researching is 'Ceator Deities'. I get 2 weeks to go research Creator Deties within the Celtic pantheon, and to come back to the forum and post what I have found. Everyone else does the some. So, we get loads of different pantheons being studied, but everybody is involved in the gathering of the information! (Ingenious!?) Even if you don't have a pantheon to research, you can join in. If you have any info which we have mised out in our research, or just feel like discussing with us what has been found, feel free! Kiama

Kiama	14 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by gloworm102 OK Kiama, I'm willing. Must brush up a bit first 'tho. Bit rusty GlowWorm, and thousand thanks! The current topic was begun yesterday, and we are researching Creator Deities. Thankyou a thousand times, once again! Kiama

arizonagirl	16 Apr 2002
Kiama, since there are already 13 pages to this thread, IMHO it would be better if we could start a brand new thread for the first assignment you have given us. Would that be OK?

Kiama	16 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by arizonagirl Kiama, since there are already 13 pages to this thread, IMHO it would be better if we could start a brand new thread for the first assignment you have given us. Would that be OK? You can find the new topic on this board. BTW: A handy hint to shorten the number of pages to a thread, is to go to your User CP, and set your preferences to something like 40 posts a page. Kiama

gloworm102	17 Apr 2002
kaiama, good idea by arizonagirl. This dumb wrinkly here doesn't understand BTW nor user CP for post? I'd hate to miss anything

arizonagirl	17 Apr 2002
BTW = by the way User CP = the left button at the top of the page by the Aeclectic Tarot title

gloworm102	17 Apr 2002
Thankyou arizonagirl

All Is One	17 Apr 2002
I'm rested and renewed after three days away from the glowing (addictive) monitor of the mac...and I'm going to the library in a few minutes to get started. Web prob has more, but I want a few volumes to hold in hand. Thanks, Kiama, and Malachite, for the ideas and organization and the inspiration. (relax Kayne and Malachite - I'll stop imposing my offbeat sense of humor upon you) :) :) :)

amyel	22 Apr 2002
Bella & I have discussed and I'm going to join you folks. It gives me some more intellectual pursuits other then discussing possible Buffy spoilers! Bella's gonna take SW & Plains groups and I will focus on NW Coast & Eastern Woodlands. For those not in the know, the NW Coast is home to native groups such as the Tlingit, Haida, Kwagiutl, Coast Salish & somtimes includes the Alaskan Inuit. The Eastern Woodlands includes Chippewa, Ojibway, Iroquious, Huron, & Mohawk, but is a big area, so I will have to edit. I'm a little late getting started and I can't promise stories for all tribal groups - but I will do my best !

Melvis	22 Apr 2002
Yippee, Amyel! I'm glad someone has taken those poor tribes that I abandoned when the Aztecs & Mayans became available! There are so many wonderful stories from those areas...I'm glad you'll be sharing them! BTW...I just read your Northwest Tribes creation story about Raven Stealing the Light. What a wonderful tale! :D Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

amyel	23 Apr 2002
Thanks Melvis. The Raven stories are among my favorites. There are whole bunch, and each NW tribe has a slightly different take on them. I'm finding it more difficult to do the Eastern Woodlands groups. They are much more diverse in their beliefs.....

The Could we do a 'Gods Study Group'? thread was originally posted on 17 Mar 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.