Attempted Conversion at Bible-Point....

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 Apr 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Malachite	08 Apr 2002
Thinking about this today, since the Jesus Coach has pulled up in my town again today....Sinners beware, GOD is in town!.... Well...to give it its proper name, its the King's Coach...some enterprising missionary-type has come up with the idea of refitting an old bus to be a mobile office, taking passers-by in off the street, and telling them all about god, Jesus, and the surety of the Bible...for philosophers out there, this is a great place to see just how much of circular argument street-Christianity can be.... Last time the bus was in, i let myself be interviewed as a favour to a very devout friend...The conversation (after brief re-telling of the story of Jesus, and his taking of the sin of manking onto his own shoulders...), ran as follows: Me: "How do you know God exists?" Guy: "Because it says so in the Bible!" Me: "Aha!..How do you know the Bible is telling the truth?" Guy: "Because it is the Word of God." ...getting the idea?.... Well....Today, the Bus came back (btw, this bus has a snazzy little billboard inside, recounting various unholy things going on in the world today, such as number of starving children, number of child prositutes, number of murders daily, and, for some reason, number of people practising witchcraft....), and while I was walking past up the sidewalk, one of the minders pounced on me, resulting in the following conversation...: Bloke: "Can I talk to you about the Christ?" Me: "Can;t help, mate, I'm Pagan" Bloke: "Really?..Well, there is only one true God, you know." Me:."Well, you might think so, but I think there are different ones" Bloke: "Sooner or later, we all meet God." Me (sensing losing battle: "Well, I'll meet different ones then..." *tactically retreating up sidewalk* This thread isn't supposed to be a dig at Christianity, but the Bus makes a good example....How fair is it to Proselytise people?... I mean, this guy (mellow old bloke...probably falls into the *sweet* category...), really thought he was trying to save my soul from the eternal fires of damnation...which is a noble thing to do... But where should the line be drawn? And, since the UK is (by legal precedent) a secular country, why do some religions get special treatment?.... Imagine what would happen if I hired a coach and toured the country introducing passers by to the wisdom of Odinn....

Diana	08 Apr 2002
Malachite, I loved your story. It's always nice to have a good laugh before going to bed. You know, these people I normally find very touching (I mean, they don't sound too dangerous - they don't sound like some dangerous sect or anything). They really believe that what they are doing is good and that Jesus loves them for doing it. (Maybe he does LOL). Are you sure that you would get a worse reception than these guys if you went proselytising about the Wisdom of Odinn? I'm not so sure. You may get a pleasant surprise. But as I suppose it's not in your plans for the next few years, we'll never know :)

Malachite	08 Apr 2002
heh....don't tempt me... lol!

Butterfly	08 Apr 2002
The last time that converting parties (seventh day adventist, I think?) came to my door to convert me, my waters broke when I opened the door!!!! LOL. They just said "We'd really like to talk to you about Jesus", I said "Now really isn't a good time" and quickly shut the door. *giggle*

Kiama	08 Apr 2002
Adam, I sat and listened to you on the phone the first time you told me about the Jesus Coach, and laughed my head off then. I'm laughing even more so than now! Anyway, to get more serious... Christianity is given special treatment, because legally, we are a Christian country. The Royals are all Christian, and we abide by Christian laws and rules. There's nothing we can do about that. (Unless Wills was to become Pagan, then a big car crash to happen with the Queen AND Charles in it.... But that's not gonna happen.) You may have noticed that all day Sunday is dedicated to Songs Of Praise on the TV, and on the Radio, we hear wonderful little conversations about the love of Jesus Christ for Mankind. (Ugh, on the way to work at 7:30am on a Sunday, this is not the kind of thing I wanna listen to!) The shops are closed on a Sunday, and nearly all businesses stop on Sundays too. Yep, England truly is a Christian country. Anyway, I must say I'm proud of how you answered that man in the street. Well done! (Wonder if he knows what a Pagan is?!) BTW: If you do decide to go get yourself a Bus Of The Almighty Odhinn, I'll be glad to help you! ;) :p Kiama PS- Before I forget: I have nothing against Christians at all. What I find annoying is the way our kids are indoctrinated from a very young age to believe that if you believe anything apart from the Christian beliefs, you are going to Hell, and that only Christians have the 'right' religion. I tried to save my little sisters from this sad, sad fate, but alas! I was to late! Even with a sister who has been Pagan for ages, and been a Tarot reader since they were babies, they still have that 'Hell and damnation' attitude that was drummed into them from a very early age. Not by my parents, not by my family, but by their school! Sorry, but when that school gets to cope with all the difficult quesions I get asked, ("Kim, are you going to Hell?" "Kim, I thought Witches just did spells and were evil!") then they can tell the kids what to believe. Until then, they have no say at all what these children believe, but they act as though they do!

Kiama	08 Apr 2002
Oh, I've got the perfect thing for you to do next time you get hijacked by the Jesus people! Get down on your knees, put hands in praying position, and shout to the Heavens: "God! Save me from your followers!!!!!!!!" ;) :p Kiama

slinky_jo	08 Apr 2002
A few years ago, some mormons came to the front door, trying to sell their lil magazine. I had my arm in a sling (I had had a motorbike accident and broken my collar bone). One of the (well-meaning?) young mormon boys asked me how I broke my arm and if it was OK. I told them I broke it in a satanic ritual and slammed the door shut on their gob-smacked faces. OK, not the smartest thing to do, but I got a little thrill out of it. And hey, I'm sure it brightened their day ;) PS - disclaimer - "slinky has never participated in a satanic ritual, and does not believe in the devil since she is a pagan. so there."

cricket	08 Apr 2002
No offense to any religions mentioned, but... Living in Utah, the Mormons would come around at least once a day. That's a -little- bit overdoing it to my tastes. This continued up until the day I caught them in their own trap. Ask them where they think we are now. (According to them, this is hell.) Not only did they refuse to answer, they decided never to come back to that apartment. hehehe... Also, living awful close to the bible belt (close enough that the local bingo parlor was shut down - considered too close to gambling) we get soapbox preachers all the time. Not to mention 'invitations' to assorted get-togethers at the neighborhood churches. It does get a bit... ummmm.... tiring after a while. It IS a thought to start going door to door with a deck, though, and offer to do readings. hehehehehe...

destinyawaitsme	08 Apr 2002
hehe...this all reminds me of an experience I had with a "bible toter." When I was 16 I was in my driveway washing my car and this man comes walking up to me with his Bible in hand. Immediately I thought...oh no..not one of these....but yes...it was one of them...and it was too late to run. I was Methodist at the time and had no interest in Tarot yet. But I still found this man all the funnier. He started criticizing my church for allowing women to preach...wow, it's really smart to say women shouldn't be religious leaders in front of a woman. I found this the opportune time to start a friendly debate. After about 30 minutes of discussion...my mom rescued me with our dog and scared the man away...only after he handed me some educational and humorous pamphlets. I know..I should have just used the water hose on him. But it was an interesting conversation...and at least I got the laugh for the day. All in all, Christians (not all by the way), mean well, but are extremely misguided. One of the things I liked about my old church was that instead of condemning the members for what they did wrong, they were encouraged to do what was right. Face it, we all screw up...it's inevitable...so let's focus on what good we can do. Okay my spiel is over. :) L&L. Destiny

kayne	09 Apr 2002
For some reason, here in Australia, all the religious people that come to my door are young, incredably good looking, american men! It is so odd :p And they never say, "How do you feel about the bible?" They have much more clever tactics... Last time they saw a bag of potting mix at by my front door step (don't ask what it was doing there...) When I said, before they even had a chance to speak, that I wasn't interested, they said, "We've come to help you shift the potting mix!" I told them, "No thanks" and shut the door... Perhaps there is some Aussie / American exchange program for young, good looking male followers of Christ that just want to shift potting mix! Next time I will have to invite them in and see if I can convert them Paganism... :D

Musicman	09 Apr 2002
hi all, i hope nobody is offended with my following response as it's my own experience and point of view. I don't find these people peddling their beliefs as harmless. Many years ago I got mixed up with these sort of people and my experience was a dark period of my life but at the same time it lead me to where i am today. You can say they are sincere and think they are doing right, but so was Hitler. And Jim Jones. And David Koresh. The list goes on..These were all men who were genuinely sincere in their beliefs and thought what they were doing was saving peoples souls or their people as in the case of Hitler. These followers of 'Christ" are dangerous in such that they think they are right and everybody else is wrong, and want to change the world into their own fantasy and illusions heaven. Thus they a reaping havic. I could never understand why governments are afraid to put a stop to these soap box preachers who in my view, are disturbing the peace and invading peoples space by their methods. I bet if I got up on a soap box and started talking a lot of s**t or attacking Chrisitanity I would be taken away and charged. But Christianinty it seems is 'untouchable'. Why? Being a Chrisitian nation is only one answer. it's more to do with the political power Christianity exerts with it's followers. And politians aren't going to interfere in something that allows to keep power. Blessed Be..

arizonagirl	09 Apr 2002
As it is part of their belief system to attempt to convert others to their faith, I'm sure that most of the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are sincere and well-meaning individuals. However, I find them incredibly annoying.

Rhiannon	09 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama Not by my parents, not by my family, but by their school! I'm having a hard time with my 7 year old daughter right now. Some of her friends at daycare and school have very Christian families and are always talking about this at school and whatnot. I get questions like "Did God make the grass?" and things like that. I know that she didn't pick this up from me or from my family! I hardly ever mention religion! I'm still trying to figure out HOW to teach her about the Goddess! What REALLY makes me angry is that if she went in to school and started saying things about the Goddess or Odinn or any other pagan deity, she'd constantly be picked on or beat up and I'd be getting phone calls from the school! Yet, these other little brats can go on and on about Jesus and how she'd go to Hell if she doesn't believe in him! ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH! It's very frustrating. I want my daughter to grow up believing in the Goddess and the Earth, but I don't want her to be hurt because of it. I guess it's a very fine line. How do you teach a child about such a wonderful, caring, loving religion and then say "But you can't talk about it out loud!" and still expect them to think there isn't something wrong with them? *sigh* Rhiannon :)

Malachite	09 Apr 2002
Rhiannon: Tell her its something wrong with everyone else... ;-)

.dc	09 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama Oh, I've got the perfect thing for you to do next time you get hijacked by the Jesus people! Get down on your knees, put hands in praying position, and shout to the Heavens: "God! Save me from your followers!!!!!!!!" ;) :p Kiama HELLYALULA... YES. do it... do IT... DO IT!!! say it SISTAH! =) *giggling maniaclly at werk* .dc

Kiama	09 Apr 2002
Rhiannon: My personal view is that in RE at school, along with all other World Religions, Paganism should be taught. I wrote an article about this for an eco-Pagan Parenting magazine... I'll see if I can attach it. Its a very good article, giving all the resaons why Paganism should be added to the National Curriculum for RE. If we teach children about Paganism when they are young they will be more tolerant of it. Studies have shown that if you learn about religions, you don't misunderstand them, such as 'why Jews wear those funny hats', so you don't take the mickey. Kiama

amyel	09 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Rhiannon I'm having a hard time with my 7 year old daughter right now. Some of her friends at daycare and school have very Christian families and are always talking about this at school and whatnot. Rhiannon :) So much for separation of church & state! I suspect my sister will have a similar issue when her daughter gets to school age.

VGimlet	09 Apr 2002
I have been approached at work (I work at a library, and you all know we are godless individuals) where my reply is, "It's not appropriate for me to discuss my beliefs with you at work." but my funniest was a while ago. My husband (aka the Saint, who is appalled by organized religion and dislikes proselytizing christians) answered a knock at the door. There was a very sweet woman and her two kids, who wanted to talk to him about the Bible. He said, "Well, I'm not interested, but my wife has been reading the Bible lately, and I'm sure she'd be glad to talk to you about it." And yes, I had been reading it, as literature, and had been ranting just the night before about how many parts seemed to have had the meaning twisted around. I did talk to her briefly, and was invited to church, which I declined. She had a very hard time grasping the concept I was reading the bible for non-religious reasons. Ususally I just say, firmly, "Not interested, I'm not Christian" and close the door, but he kind of put me on the spot. Yes, I did call him a creep later, but it was very funny. It still makes him giggle when I mention it.

Kiama	10 Apr 2002
I'm such a pushover when it comes to people knocking on the door! I'll just stand there are listen to them, cuz I don't have the heart to tell them to go away! This got me in trouble with Mum and Dad, cuz I decided I wanted to find out what on Earth Jehovah's Witnesses really believed, so I chatted with them, and they gave me some literature, so I read it. Then, a week later, they came back again, and decided to give me more stuff to read! They kept coming back, until the time Mum answered the door and told them I didn't live there anymore! (Almost the truth!) But I learned alot from what they told me and what I read. Kiama

Malachite	10 Apr 2002
Perhaps, the next time that the J's Ws come around, i shall whip out a good pagan mag, and send my conversion rays back at them!

aeonx	10 Apr 2002
I've just read through all the replies, and I do agree with most of them. I'm not Christian, but I believe in God/Goddess. I believe in Jesus, he was a historical person being blessed by the Great One. I believe in the Bible as a book. However, I also believe that the Bible no longer is as it was originally. It's likely that it's been changed a lot over the years, so people could benefit from it. For example, using the Bible to condemn all non-believers to hell and eternal damnation. There is no such thing. Pure fiction. Luckily. :D I find it a bit annoying having people on the doors praising Jesus. We may believe in the same things, but we live by them totally differently. I get angry if they come back and come back. I tend to do crazy things then that'll scare them off - for good! *lol* Everone's entitled to their own opinon, of course. Yet, we don't have to jump on others to express them. Just leave it be and live your own way. Luckily, there are people like me who has (more or less) a Christian point of view (haven't quite determined this yet...), and don't go around smashing others in the face with it. Like some Christians do. Like some Muslims do. Like some other believers do.

Umbrae	10 Apr 2002
Okay, I admit…somewhere deep inside I may have issues. I love tormenting proselytes who come to my door. My favorite: “You’ve come at a bad time, I was watching the games. The latest score is, Lions four - Christians nothing”. Come to think of it…No body except Democrats have come to my door in over eight years…

Diana	10 Apr 2002
I didn't realise how harrassed some people seem to be by these Jesus types. Which is why my first reply in this thread was full of tolerance and amusement. I have occasionally had people knocking at my door, but they've been very sweet and when I told them I'm not interested, and please will they not come back, they have never tried to insist. But I see now that things can get pretty annoying. So perhaps these Jesus people are not so amusing after all. There are not many religious fanatics in Switzerland. The Swiss are far too reserved for that kind of thing, in general. Also, I have learnt more in this thread about the fundamentalists in the USA. I had heard of them, and seen documentaries on TV, but I thought this was more sensationalism, and didn't affect ordinary people so much. Now I see that they are REAL. This is to me more frightening than any Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons or whatever. These people sound very stupid and fanatical with crazy ideals. And here in Europe, we still have very strong memories of what happened when stupid, fanatical people with crazy ideals became a little too powerful. That's scary.

Umbrae	10 Apr 2002
When you begin mixing stupid, fanatical people with crazy ideals and enough misinformation about religion, ANY religion, it is very dangerous and scary. We have a big country that preaches freedom of religion, as long as it is Christian or some sub-sect (Mormons, Jehovah’s witness). Often, if you politely tell them to go away they come back. Then when they begin to run for political office… We also have many charlatans’ who use religion to further their own means (we allow it, under the freedom of religion…). But woe unto thee who may practice paganism, or GODFORBID…WITCHCRAFT!!! Scary folks… BTW: They are the first ones to come for a reading when their friend’s backs are turned…

The Attempted Conversion at Bible-Point.... thread was originally posted on 08 Apr 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.