Spirituality, not Religion

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Apr 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

BluSeraphim	13 Apr 2002
I have a community reform church a block up the street from my house, and the members keep coming to my door to try and get me to join. At first I was very polite as this has happened many times in the past and I have, through much soul searching, learned to tolerate organised religion and its practitioners. After a few months of this harassment, for that's what it turns into after the first three visits, I decided to tell these people what I really thought about religion. I told the woman that while we did not believe in organised religion, we were a very spiritual household. She replied, so you have read the bible then? To which I responded, which one? Then added, no, that is a tool of organised religion, we are a spiritual family, not a religious one. I finished by thanking her very much for her interest in the state of my soul and firmly closed the door. I thought to myself later that the woman probably didn't even know there was a difference between the two. And so I say this to any who might be interested in learning the difference: spirituality is our unique and individual relationship with God or Goddess, religion is a man made form of controlling the ignorant masses. 'Nuf said. Blu.

jade	13 Apr 2002
i 'label' myself and my family the same way. we are an ecclectic bunch of pagan/wiccan/new age/spiritual/loving positive light - beings LOL i take a little from this and a little from that. i just make it up as we go along. growing and changing. and IMO getting better all the time. with every new lesson and new experience we are more complete (if i can actually use that word to describe this). i enjoy the way we gently enjoy our beliefs and that we don't push them on others. we share when asked, but we don't start conversations about spiritual matters..........actually that's not true cause i often mention our beliefs since it's such a huge part of who we are. but, i hope you get my drift.....i don't walk up to people and start sharing my belief system with them. thanks for such a wonderful topic. in light, jade :)

cricket	14 Apr 2002
Now why couldn't I think of putting it that way? *L* It gets... frustrating... trying to fend these people off after a while, and they just don't seem to accept the fact that a person can be spiritual and not go to an 'organized' church.

Musicman	14 Apr 2002
these people will never understand what true spirituality really is, if it is not associated with their bible. Its the same with trying to tell them them that everything under the sun is sacred, to which they respond with, 'no it's sinful and fallen. thus secular'. for me nothing is fallen or sinful. whta is right or wrong is different to everybody. when you follow your heart you will know what is wrong and what is right for YOU. Original Sin is one of the most damaging and controlling concepts ever put together by the church...

moondust	14 Apr 2002
While I don't belong to any organized religion either, and as everyone applied above, still consider myself a very spiritual person, I think to lump everybody that does belong to an organized religion in the same cagegory as those who try to force their religion on another is as unfair as the assumption those people make that we who do not belong to an organized religion do not know God. I do understand what everyone is trying to convey as I certainly have had my share of knocks at the door, letters in the mail, etc. for not "belonging" to an organzied religion, but one of the reasons I don't is because of the intolerance many (not all) have for anything outside of their "religious world". The world is full of many types of people, religions, and spiritualities, I hope that one day we may all dwell in peace. Love to all moondust

Kiama	14 Apr 2002
I have never seen a distinction in my life between Religion and Spirituality. For me, I use the terms synonymously to describe the path I follow. Although I do think there is a different kind of Religion/Spirituality shown by those who tend to think they need a mediator between themselves and the Divine, and those who don't... Kiama

Malachite	14 Apr 2002
you could always say *Spiritualist*...spiritual just says that you are interested in the well -being of your immortal part....

truthsayer	14 Apr 2002
try this website if you want to learn from a liberal christian how to dismantle fundamentalist arguments. i found elroy's site inspiring. he backs up everything he says w/ quotes from the Bible. very intelligent man! http://elroy.net

lunalafey	14 Apr 2002
I can't seem to give a label to HOW I am. I do what I do, think what I think, and believe what I believe. I am open minded and a good person and try not to step on toes. That's basically what's important. There is a book by John c. Lilly called the Simulations of God: the Science of Belief. It is incedibaly interesting. In one chapter he writes about these organizers, he says the basic charictaristic of the modern versions of these religions is the "I am right" banner they fly. I personally do not have a problem with religion, I have a problem with the people who practice it, they, in my eyes seem to be failing in their following...poor sheep..can't figure it out for themselves...

Kiama	14 Apr 2002
As Moderator of this board, I order everyone to go to the webpage Truthsayer gave us. NOW! No, I'm kidding, you don't have to... But it is an amazing site. Kiama

BluSeraphim	14 Apr 2002
Malachite, exactly, I don't want to call myself anything, for how can words equate the sum total of my existence? I say our household is spiritual, meaning only that we are active participants in the pursuit of higher learning. And I do agree that not every person who participates in organized religion is a "I am right and you better do what I say or God will punish you" type, which is exactly why I have learned to tolerate all belief systems, no matter how antiquated they have become. Sometimes the intention is more powerful than the action it manifests. Godspeed, Blu.

BluSeraphim	14 Apr 2002
Unbelievable, I never thought I would find someone who so accurately expressed my deep seated conflict with religion. Thank you so much for this link, I plan on thoroughly investigating Elroy's web-site, and so should everbody else! Godspeed, Blu.

Musicman	15 Apr 2002
Truthsayer, Thank you so much for that link. I certainly can relate to him as I was years ago mixed up with the same type of people that left scars on me ever since, thus my path so far has led me to where i am today. It certainly stirred up many deep seated anxieties i did have at the time, so Elroy's site definitely resonated within me...for the better! Thanks truthsayer! How did you ever come across a site like this? blessed be

Kiama	15 Apr 2002
Just had athought: It is not the 'religion' I have a problem with... Its individual people within a religion that think they are representing that religion... And its also the institutions of that religion, who try to fit the teachings of a religion nicely into a stone house... For instance, the institution of the Church... I see it as pointless. God is not in buildings, He/She/It is in the World, everywhere.... Not JUST in that 'House Of God'. You can worship anywhere, not just a Church, but lots of people think otherwise. Kiama

moondust	20 Apr 2002
Truthsayer/Kiama WOW I just got back from the elroy website you posted a while back. It was amazing. I just finished reading the back and forth letters between elroy and his friend about why he left christianity. What a conversation!!!!! What a head trip!!!!! But I am not quite sure that I could live with totally at ease with his message either, it seems to say that things are just as they are and there is nothing to have faith in. I have to assimilate everything he said and let it whirl around a bit. Did anyone else read that series of exchanges and what thoughts did they come away with?? Thanks for the point to the website, though. Certainly worth reading more than once. with many thoughts whirring around in her head, moondust signs off. Happy Trails to you.

The Spirituality, not Religion thread was originally posted on 13 Apr 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.