Esoterics in presence of young children?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 May 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kissa	07 May 2002
A question for moms and dads, and for others too after all ;) , I do stuff with my tarot cards (shuffle, watch, read them) in front of my 2 years old. She is interested in cards, her favourite is the Sun, I got her a cheap deck ("Royal tarot" made in China) and I took the "negative"/scaring majors away, minors are pips. Same with stones, she loves them, like all kids she is collecting them ;) My dad is very rational, my mom reads her horoscope, I have always been into esoterics of all kinds, my sis is a bit into too. But I am in the closet concerning my deep tarot interest, my dad especially would think that I am just a bored stay-at-home mom in need of comfort. So my question is: (not that I am ashamed of what I am doing!) do you think I shouldn't do esoterics in front of our child? That she might get the idea that it is normal and everybody does it and then get problems later with narrow-minded ppl/kids ? She is a very soft little girl, I mean not aggressive at all, contemplative and gentle, I am afraid she won't be "strong" enough if ppl are mean to her. She is already "different" because I am a foreigner in her dad's country and ppl look at us like weirdos from outerspace when we talk, at the park for example ;) Is it like religious belief (IMO), should you let the kid be old enough to decide for him/herself without trying to influence earlier ?? I don't know, I mean, we watch the cards together and we comment on them, just like we do with her children books. Is it BAAAAD ??? Kissa

joya250	07 May 2002
Kissa, hi. I am not a parent, but I can share with you my experience of when I was a child. .... my parents strongly believed in not imposing a religion upon my brother and I when we were younger... unlike almost all of my other peers, I was not baptised or associated with any sort of religion. However, both my parents were deeply spiritual. Instead of church, we would have "sunday morning meditation"... we celebrated the seasons and nature.... my mother read tarot cards, runes, etc.... I would play with her things -- and especially loved the images on the rider waite tarot. ........ growing up like that was wonderful. :) I am blessed to have had such an open-minded childhood. :) .... and I did not experience any hardship as I grew up with regards to being "odd" -- haha, didn't everybody have mandal stickers on the windows of their houses? I had no idea people would even consider things like that weird. however, your daughter will sense your emotions -- and if you are not completely comfortable with such things -- then eventually, she'll feel as though she has something to hide too.

fairyhedgehog	07 May 2002
This is a tricky one, Kissa. On the one hand, it seems a terrible shame if she can't join in if she wants to. You can have such fun together. On the other hand, what happens when she casually talks about Tarot to people who don't understand? I would be inclined to let her join in (maybe even get her a Whimsical Tarot when she is old enough to be gentle with the cards); I would have a 'cover story' ready when she inevitably comes out with things ('Oh, I'm interested in games, cards etc, the Tarot cards are so pretty' ... whatever); and as she understands more I would let her know that some people have weird ideas about things so it might be best to keep some things for inside the house. Trouble is, our kids /do/ say awkward things, there's no getting away from it. 'Why is that lady so fat?' 'How did the baby get into her?' and 'What is a virgin?' are all guaranteed to liven up the bus queue. I suppose 'Why isn't the Devil card bad, Mummy?' and 'Will you tell that lady's future?' come into the same category. I wonder how other people cope with this? My lads are older, but I /have/ asked them not to talk to Nanny or Auntie Nikki about my Tarot cards. And I still feel uncomfortable in case they do. All the best, FH

Diana	07 May 2002
Kissa: I think it's wonderful that your kid can grow up seeing that different people have different ways of looking at things. What I wouldn't do is shove Tarot or anything down her throat. Tell her how other people handle things, what other people believe in, when she's old enough. I talk to my kid about Judaism, Catholicism, Buddhism, etc. He knows what I believe, but I tell him that it is just my way of looking at the world. When he was too little to understand this, we would discuss how when he looks at a cat, for instance, it's probably not the same cat that I'm seeing. And we'd describe the cat to each other. He knows I believe in reincarnation, but we've talked about other people's views on life and death. And you know, what's normal or not doesn't exist. My kid thinks it's really wierd that his friends don't go and get work done on their chakras, and that their mums don't know how to heal headaches with their hands. But he's discreet enough not to go talking about it to all and sundry. And hopefully this way, your kid won't feel shy coming out of her closet when she grows up with different ideas to yours. Give her more credit. She's absorbing what she needs and will in time filter out what she doesn't and make up her own opinions on things. When my kid was born, I put up in my kitchen the following words from Khalil Gibran on parenting and I still read them frequently so as not to forget. (They've been in the same place for eleven years now.) "You may give them your love but not your thoughts, for they have their own thoughts; You may house their bodies but not their souls, for their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow; You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you, for life goes not backward, nor tarries with yesterday."

zorya	07 May 2002
diana, the khalil gibran is one of my favorites too! i find myself singing the "sweet honey on the rock" version all the time. kissa, i'm very upfront with my children too. i do use a gentle deck in front of my 6 year old though. i believe that it is important to raise them with honesty. i explain that it's best not to talk about tarot in front of grandma or the neighbors, that it could upset them. i try to explain their beliefs with out judgement, so that they will understand why that is. i do wish that this was a world where we could be more open. i fear that if our beliefs are kept "in the closet" from our children, when they do find out ,and they will, they will think that there is something wrong with them. bright blessings! zorya

Rhiannon	07 May 2002
I have 3 and I work with my cards and things in front of them all the time. I'm using my Goddess Oracle almost like "flash cards" with my daughter to introduce her to paganism. I won't exclude other faiths from her education, though. She enjoys my cards, especially my Robin Wood deck. She can tell what they mean by the pictures. I've also done her (and the boys') numerology charts to see where I can help them develop thier potentials. I worry about them getting picked on too, but I guess I'll just deal with that when it arrives. Rhiannon :)

cricket	07 May 2002
It's wonderful that you're doing these things with your kids there. :D I do some things with my cards with my kids - using one of my least favorite decks, because they still tend to be destructive - including shuffling and showing them the pictures. I've never actually done a reading in front of them. They would probably jump in and scatter the cards from here til Sunday. *L* The main thing we do together, though, is look at the pretty pictures on the cards and tell each other about them. It's amazing how many of the meanings a three year old can tell you, just by looking at them! Being picked on by the other kids is something to be worried about only if your children are learning ONLY the esoteric things, IMO. My kids are being raised as southern Baptists (not my first choice, but it's the only religion offered in this area). If given the choice, however, I would take them to many different people to let them learn what they can so they can make a real and educated decision about what religion they want to get into and pursue. Practicing esoterical things would be a part of that. Therefore, what you're doing really isn't trying to influence your daughter - IF you're also teaching her things about other religions. Hopefully that makes sense.

lunalafey	08 May 2002
I'm a mom of three, 2 boys and a girl 12 to 5. I have always been very open with my childern. My little girl loves the cards, and my boys where facinated when they where younger. I'm sure one day they will ask my to read for them. As for those things that children say and protecting the family from dumb people. Keep it simple. You are playing cards. My daughter had a hard time saying tarot, made it easy. mom's cards. We have 'grown up' conversations. Because I don't hide things, somethings have to be explained in a grown up way. Kids don't always grasp some concepts/issues of scociety because they are so pure/young. But explain it anyway, they may not understand the reason but the have heard that there is one. And they can understand your request to keep quiet. Talk about it once in a while, eventually they will get it, probably before you figure they would. Not only are you teaching them that there are people who don't agree/understand, but that some of them can be mean. And to be forwarned of such makes it easier to just brush it off.

Kiama	08 May 2002
I'm not a biological mother, but I am old enough to be a role model to my two little sisters. When I finally told my Father about being a Celtic Pagan, I realised alot of things about parenting... He told me that he hoped I would give my children the same choices that he gave me. My parents, whilst raising me in a Christian household, with Christian values, still gave me the choice and freedom to explore other things... I think that bringing a child up with a practice or belief is absolutely fine, as long as the child is given the option of whether or not they follow that practice or belief later on in life. As long as they have the opportunity to become another seeker, they should be fine. You may get problems when your 2 year old begins schol though... But I think you will find it is never usually the children who are closed-minded or prejudiced against kids from other beliefs, or against new and different things.. Usually they accept it, and see nothing different about their friend. It is only when they get to adulthood, or adolescence, that things start making a difference... My little sisters have been brought up with Tarot cards. Nicola (10, nearly 11) sees them as a part of my everyday life, but still looks at other things and practices.. Seeing every single one of them as nomal. I think it is less the thing you do in front of the children, and more what you tell them in conjuction with that, that shapes their ideas... Kiama

catlin	08 May 2002
Hm, as I am only "mummy" of 4 cats, I have not such a close contact to kids but I know that my neighbour has 2 kids. Especially her 4-year-old daughter is very "spiritual" and sensitive to other things. When I first saw that child I thought: "Gosh, a pixi child!" (she is small, dark, huge-eyed and very earnest for a 4-year-old!). I saw that this child has the ability to become a , ok, let's say it: a witch (if properly trained). I know my neighbours very well now and some weeks ago when Isabella and me talked about her kids I pointed out that I have seen "the Craft" in her daughter. Both children are in a Walldorf-kindergarden (you know probably the teachings of Rudolf Steiner), so they get a spiritual teaching but I am not so sure if R. Steiner is such a big help in nowaday's world.

zorya	08 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by catlin [ both children are in a walldorf-kindergarden (you know probably the teachings of rudolf steiner), so they get a spiritual teaching but i am not so sure if r. steiner is such a big help in nowaday's world. [/b] if more children were taught ala rudolph steiner, this would be a different world! one child at a time, one child at a time. :)

Bings	08 May 2002
My children are ages 14, 10 and 8. They are exposed to my tarot cards, my stones, my candles and my books. They know my beliefs. But they have also been exposed to other religions. I have always encouraged them learning other religions and going to church with friends when invited. For a while my 10 year old was very interested in my tarot cards and wanted a deck to learn with. So I got her a deck. Then she told the mother of her best friend who is very religious. (I have no idea what religion because she tends to hop from one church to the next quite regularly.) Now my daughter will not even touch her tarot deck. She says they are evil and that she doesn't believe in spells. She won't even carry her stones anymore. When I let my daughter read Harry Potter (after I read it first) this other mother bought her the book "Harry Potter and the Bible; The Menace Behind the Magick". I have taken the book from my daughter and won't let her read it until I read it first. I think its wonderful for your daughter to be exposed to your cards and beliefs at such a young age. At such a young age she can also be taught that other people have other beliefs and thats OK. She can also be taught that she shouldn't blurt out in front of crowds that Mommy has tarot cards. Unlike my own daughter who wasn't exposed to them until she was 9 and thought they were something new and exciting and talked about them in Sunday School. Dianne

Angel Star	08 May 2002
I have 4 kids and I am always reading my decks around them and they are a bit older from 11,14,16 but my natural born son the other 3 are my stepchildren is 6 and they all love the tarot cards. They don't speak of the cards to others and most of the people that live around here are pretty open minded as I do tarot readings for my neighbors and there are always 7 day Saint candles being lit in our home. If my children are more interested in studying my path they are more than welcome to as their real mother has shown the oldest 16 year old the left hand path and I realize that she is still very confused about what is appropriate and what is not. I wish my parents had taught me what I am teaching myself but we were all raised in the Catholic religion not to put it down its just not for me. Yes I still follow my Saints but not in any organized religious text. I think its great to get children more open to using their right brains as most of us when we were little were told to shut that part down. As long as the children are happy they should be able to enjoy tarot cards and all kinds of metaphysical studies. Yes, there is always going to be someone who does not approve but oh well we all have our freedom of choice. I am giving my children that choice as they seem more confused about traditional religions than the way I practice my religion. Dad lights candles too so I think they are pretty accustomes to it all.

Ravenswing	26 May 2002
kissa-- give to your daughter the best you are, whatever that may be. LVX steve

Emily	26 May 2002
My little boy is 5, he's seen me use my Spiral and some of the other decks. Although he likes the pictures, particularly the Hanson Roberts, he's never really asked me about them. I think he thinks they are like the cards he uses for snap or donkey or even his flash cards. If one day he shows a real interest in tarot then I'll tell him more about them. He does love my I Ching coins though lol :)

Geenius at Wrok	26 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kissa I do stuff with my tarot cards (shuffle, watch, read them) in front of my 2 years old. She is interested in cards, her favourite is the Sun, I got her a cheap deck ("Royal tarot" made in China) and I took the "negative"/scaring majors away, minors are pips. Same with stones, she loves them, like all kids she is collecting them ;) If you believe you have to remove certain cards from the deck, I personally don't think you should be giving her the deck in the first place. She's not ready. If you just want to give her a toy to play with, get a playing card deck, like Alan's Tarots, rather than a divination deck.

Liliana	26 May 2002
My kids are always interested when Im doing something with myc ards, they are 4 1/2 and almost 3. But Im fairly poor soIm afraid of them damaging the cards, so lately Ive been letting them look through my Rohrig Tarot book. Some people may not approve since there is some nudity in those cards, but they dont even seem to notice the nudity. They een look at the more frightening cards, and the most Ive ever gotten was AH a monster for the skull on death lol. That was my youngest, my oldest said ah look the lady and the monster are friends, Pretty wise one :) We take our kids to a Christian hurh,but they are not baptised and will not be until they choose whih path they want to go on. They've seen me burn candles (usually they think its a birthday lol) and other things for the cycle of the year too. They an be any religion they want, thats up to them. My husband is even more into them haing hoie than me, I want to send some pis of them to Major Tom for his Tarot. My husband objected, saying, what if they grow up to be fundalmentalists? eing on a Tarot ard would be bad for that. He also said if they did we failed in our teachings lol, but it is their choice. As for talking about it in public, I never bothered to call them tarot cards, or even to name the cards themselves, we just talk about the pictures, and if she mentions picture cards in public well no one would have a clue :) :THP

Cat	26 May 2002
Kissa, My gut reaction to this is that if your spirituality and beliefs are an important part of youir life, you have almost a duty to share them with your daughter. You certainly don't have to imply that Tarot is the only thing out there, but (as I think most people here would agree) the spiritual side of the person is very important; and the best way you can share that with your daughter is by discussing your own feelings (and comparing them to other people's beliefs if necessary). It would be a shame to deprive her of this. I also think that people often under estimate children's understanding. With a less cluttered world-view, they can often see the obvious where we can not. I remember one occasion, when I was about 17, preparing for my final school exams, going on a long car journey with my family. I was revising the metaphysical poets, and my 8 year old brother was interested in what I was doing, so I read a John Donne poem to him. After asking a few questions, he started talking about it and commenting on it - and he understood it far better than a good 80% of my class mates; and made some observations that were entirely new to me. He's a bright boy, but a certain simplicity also gave him an advantage. I think what I'm trying to say is that the Tarot is not just a method of divination, but a learning tool as well. If you and your daughter enjoy looking at it together; then I think it's potentially a great starting point for discussing a lot of spiritual stuff. I don't think she's likely to be ostracised because of it; by the time other children have noticed that it's in anyway unusual, she'll most likely be able to deal with it. Whatever you decide; Best wishes and blessings to you and her.

jade	26 May 2002
kissa, i know i'm coming into this conversation late but would a christian woman ask if she should keep her crosses and bible away from her children? i share all of what i do with my kids, tarot, spellwork, meditations, celebrations (yule etc) all of it. how can they learn if they don't live it. in light, jade

AutumnMoonfire	26 May 2002
What an interesting topic....I am taking my 4yo to Unitarian Universalist Sunday School so she has a liberal foundation to start with...I don't hide my Tarot cards although I do not tend to read in front of her because she makes it tough to concentrate:) I am neither hiding anything nor actively discussing it. I think if she asked when she was older I would give her The Goddess Tarot because of how the majors are set up...but only after she keeps better track of her other toys LOL

Rain	28 May 2002
Kissa, I am not a mother, but I can say that I agree with what you are doing. I think you should be open with your child about your beleifs, after all, tarot is spirituality, and we all should be able to do it without thinking it a crime. You should explain to your daughter that many ppl have many beleifs. My mother is into spiritism, although she's never learned the tarot. When I was little, she never really explained her beleif system to me. I knew she didn't beleive in Heaven and Hell, and that she beleived in reincarnation, but it was only when I turned 16 that I read Allen Kardec's The Spirits' Book. Any way, after reading and interpreting the book, I began to wonder why my mother never told me about it, and I began to feel like my life could have been better if I would have known. You should keep doing what your doing with you daughter. If you can build a spiritual relationship with her, it will be good for the both of you. My mother and I are closer now that we share the same beleifs, but I still feel as though alot of my childhood could have been better, and that I learned it all too late-well it's never too late, but maybe life would have been beter in my early years if I had a beleif system. As far as mother-daughter relationship. I am 17 now, and still learning the tarot, maybe later I'll share with my mother my beleifs.

Angel Star	11 Jun 2002
I have to agree with the post before mine. Sorry its taken so long to reply my system was down. I read all my esoteric books and do readings around my children. I tell them if your interested in reading tarot or any books I have unless some are just not suitable for their age then just ask me and feel free to explore. I have an 11 year old who loves reading the tarot at times and is not afraid of them and also loves to use the ESP cards she is really good at knowing what shape is on a card. I believe being open is a good thing and letting your children decide for themselves. Unfortunately my oldest stepchild who is now 16 has been expossed to some very unhealthy believes taught to her by her dysfuntional mother and grandmother. They believe it is just fine to throw negativity at people if they so feel like doing. Maybe some do not agree but I do teach my children the rule of 3 or "do unto other and you would have them do unto you" No I am not a big fan of the bible but I don't feel it is appropriate to teach young children how to hurt others thru use of black magick at all! Other than that my children are free to study alternate believe as long as they are not trying to hurt themselves or others. :)

The Esoterics in presence of young children? thread was originally posted on 07 May 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.