Jehova's Witnesses

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 May 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

jema	14 May 2002
jehova's witnesses i have an aunt who is one, and had a great grandmother who was one. i grew up listening to tales of armaggedon and how i would die unless i believed what they believed. most of the time i never reallt cared - but they got to me. when i was 17 i started with bible studies more seriously and when i was 19 i was baptised at a large convention. i look at photos from that time and remember how deeply unhappy i was. i was never good enough, pure enough, christinian enough... i felt the world was full of sin and everything i wanted to do was bad. when i was 21 i decided to become a student at university. the elders in my congragation adviced against it - told me that satan would get into my head at uni, the teachers had only worldly knowledge and would poison my mind. i did it anyway, i escaped, got on that train and did it! i loved each minute at university. i thrived there. when i got back home i tried to do some bible studies again just to see but i could see right through their tactics. i told them i wanted out - and one day i heard a knock on my door and three men dressed in black stood there, serious faces, told me i was from now on excommunicated - i would be as dead for them. today when i meet a witness on the street, they cross the road to avoid looking into my eyes. here is a sample of their believes: (ps, they do change it a lot and some of the things they taught me is now regarded as false) *144.000 people will go to heaven and rule together with jesus and Jehova *Jehova is the name of the Lord, jesus is his son and the holy spirit is just that, not a being in itself - more like God's will. *Armageddon will come any day now. actually they did think it would come 1975, when it didn't - they changed the dates to this: "those who experienced the 1 world-war in 1914 will not all be dead when armageddon comes" since we don't got THAT many of those around they think perhaps armageddon will come sometime within 10 years. only they thought so about 20 years ago too. today they say that only Jehova knows the day. *in armageddon all those who have heard about the truth (jehovas witnesses faith) but didn't follow it, will die and birds wil peck out their eyes on the hige battlefield and no one will mourn them. *after armageddon - we will live in a paradise on earth for all eternity. except those 144.000 that rules in heaven. *christmas is a pagan holiday and must not be celebrated. (new rules say you may accept gifts if you feel you would offend someone if you refused) *birthdays are pagan too and lead only to bad things and a bad sense of self-importance. *the only celebrations that are ok is wedding-days and their "rememberance-day" when they serve the holy communion but only the 144.000 that will go to heaven can take part in that. *you may not take any blood. (only there are new rules stating that in some cases parts of blood may be ok) *humanity is no older then 6000 years. archeologists don't know what they are talking about *it is their biblical duty to knock on your door to spread the word. they seriously think they may save your life. even if you hate everything they stand for - they really don't do it to annoy you. just ask them to leave and don't come back, if they do come back, just tell them again, and again. they sometimes remind me of spam. of course they never ever knock on my door. so one hot tips might be to lie and say you are an ex-communicated witness;-) *most witnesses are very devout and honest and even when you don't agree with them they deserve the same respect you would want them to give you. it may seem like i am disrespectful here but i am just really thankful for a lot of the things i learnt as a witness and the whole process of breaking free from them made me grow as a human. i am proud to be an ex-witness. got any questions?

purplelady	14 May 2002
My first husband was a really friendly guy and would let anyone in who came to the door ! And so he let the Jehovah's in! These 2 women came by once or twice a month and I Kind-of befriended them . I had just had a baby. They gave me a bible. I told them I would never go to their church! That was a long time ago! The beliefs you've laid out seem so............staunch. I would have difficulty believing in the 144,000 thing. I Have heard that number in other places though, channellings I think. It's true , Jehovah Witnesses do not believe in celebrating birthdays, christmas or any other holidays. My understanding was that easter is the only holiday celebrated . Oh well , to each his own I guess. One thing that did bother me was one of the women told me her baby died at birth either because she didn't have medical insurance or didn't go to the hospital or something. She didn't blame the doctors at all because it was "god's will".

funkpuss	14 May 2002
I must as it't there job to go around knocking on doors etc. My sister and my moher used to be Jehovah Witnesses but I always had about 7 demons inside me and stupidly I binned my tarot cards at the time. My mother had her coat stolen and the couple who always come round was asking for food an W/C rolls of paper. My mother at the time felt sorry for them. Has anyone got any money? that's what it's all about and double standards + I've got gay friends! NOW I just have pleasure saying to them I'm NOT intrested! GOOD BYE!!!! Each to their own but not on my door step! Funky

jema	14 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by purplelady One thing that did bother me was one of the women told me her baby died at birth either because she didn't have medical insurance or didn't go to the hospital or something. She didn't blame the doctors at all because it was "god's will". i would have to say that this is not considered "normal" though, they are for the most part pretty clever folks and know their rights etc. and they do go to doctors and if things do go wrong they will in most cases try and find out why and make sure it won't happen again. they do not take the death of a child as Gods will. but then there are always those that willingly accept it all. but nuts like that are common in all religions, not just jehovas witnesses.

jema	14 May 2002
funkpuss, i am not sure i understood you post, english is not my main language and sometimes i misread things. however i do want to make it clear that Jehova's witnesses are not after your money, not until well after you are baptised and a part of their congragation anyway. i find most of them to be really sharing and giving actually, only they do so with a purpose - they want to "save" you. but you will not see a witness beg for money or steal anything. and if you firmly ask them to leave and show that you are not interested they will leave.

Aeon	14 May 2002
Half my family are JW, funny bunch aren't they . My aunt disowned her parents because after they were baptised into it they did not quit smoking and she found out. They immediately became dead to her and all other JWs. My question there was "what about honor thy mother and father". Christmas is not celebrated because that's not the real birth date of Jesus. All other birthdays and holidays are not celebrated because they weren't sanctified (I think that's the word I want to use) by God, wedding anniversaries are. The strangest one I heard recently was that in Revelation, according to them, it states that all religion (or was it god?) will be taken out of the hearts of all men, except of course JWs, and when the "smoke" clears people will be looking around them and seeing the JWs are still standing and worshipping then everyone will realize that they are the One True religion. I wish I could remember exactly what it was my aunt told me about this. What was being taken out of the hearts of men sounded more like a place then belief. When I'm in a mood I like to get em with questions like "where did the people Adam and Eves kids marry come from?" or "If ALL spirits are evil, where do those angels you believe in come from?" I have an article with bunches of these (better ones actually), I'll have to see if I can find it. It's called We Are The Other People.

jema	14 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Aeon When I'm in a mood I like to get em with questions like "where did the people Adam and Eves kids marry come from?" or "If ALL spirits are evil, where do those angels you believe in come from?" I have an article with bunches of these (better ones actually), I'll have to see if I can find it. It's called We Are The Other People. hi aeon, yep, they are strange indeed. but asking them those question won't really get to them as they will have an answer ready for you. they never argued that kain and abel were the ONLY kids that adam and eve got, just that they were the only ones that the bible mentions. they are also aware that jesus did in fact have brothers and maybe even sisters. and that not all spirits are evil - only those spirits that roam the earth, angels don't do that, they stick to the heavens. i have read that article - and it is really funny - but would work better with other christians, not so much Jehovas witnesses. that part about all other religions vanishing like smoke i must admit i haven't heard before. it is a new one to me - but then i haven't been a witness in 15 years:-) they do come up with new things al the time, don't they?

Malachite	14 May 2002
I guess I view the whole thing with a kind of humour..everyone has a right to their beliefs, and it only annoys me when someone really tries to save me...A couple of times, Christian friends have prayed for me, but they've asked first...I just say, hellya, I need all the help I can get...and offer to return the favour...for some reason they never expect that... I've never had any close, personal experiences, since I come from a relatively unreligious family...After generations of serfdom, mining and economic slavery, the faith kinda got trampled out my ancestors... Jema....lots of ((((((hugs)))))) for getting through that! I hope things work out for you!

funkpuss	14 May 2002
I understand what people say about Jehova's Witnesses both good and bad and I think what ever works for you then that's fine too. But I never known of any good experiences with Jehova's Witnesses and the ones that I knew was after just money and this money was not for the Kingdom hall. I found the same in a Penticostol church which I used to go to (one of many) The pastor got a 16 year old girl pregant and one other man used all the money to buy his house. This was also the same in a spiritualist church I used to go to, so I'm not downing any religion but I don't beleive in some things which are man made i.e cults. The one thing I do hate about Jehova's Witnesses is the bit about cutting off gay friends. Come on we are in 2002! get real. I still may think my post may be misunderstood as things do via e-mail/ online. But that's just what I think of Jehova's Witnesses. Yes they are nice BUT it's not real. That's just my view, that's why I say each to their own and if it works for you then then that's Brill!!! Funky

jema	14 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by funkpuss I still may think my post may be misunderstood as things do via e-mail/ online. But that's just what I think of Jehova's Witnesses. Yes they are nice BUT it's not real. That's just my view, that's why I say each to their own and if it works for you then then that's Brill!!! Funky ok, but actually it didn't work out for me since i am obviously not a witness today. i do think it is important to distinguish between what a few rotten eggs in a religion do and what the religion stands for. the witnesses stand for a lot of really weird things - but they do not stand for stealing or begging for money. i merely wanted to point out a few things that are specific about this religion. i am afraid gay-bashing is something that is only too common in lots and lots of religions. it is really a tradgedy and one of the reasons i had to leave the witnesses since i too have many gay friends.

destinyawaitsme	14 May 2002
Well, let's face it, I don't think any religion promotes immoral behavior. We are all human, we all make mistakes, we all are entitled to ignorance. I remember when I thought that people who had sex before marriage were burning hell...I was naive, I was stupid....everyone goes through that...some never grow out of it. When you are young and impressionable it is easy for someone to brainwash you. After all, we haven't experienced anything to learn from our experiences so we have to go by what people tell us and accept it as the gospel truth. I had to learn that we aren't here to condemn, we are here to live. I remember a Jehovah's Witness telling me that my tarot cards were nothing but the Devil's lies...and what appears to be a truth is only a trick to get me to worship the devil...hmmm. See what I mean? We are all entitled to our own opinions no matter how ridiculous or absurd they may seem. It's a fact of life...some get it, some don't.

Kiama	14 May 2002
Jema, thankyou for clarifying what JV's actually believe! I am one of those people who won't turn people away from the door instantly: I will always listen to what they have to say first. (I get this from my Mum.) So, when JV's are there, I listen, but they only seem to tell me about the apocalypse and what have you... Not about what they actually believe. I tried reading some Watchtower, and some other stuff they gave me, but it was mainly about spreading the word and the apocalypse... That ex-communication thing souns damn scary! Kiama

Bings	14 May 2002
My husband's grandmother became a Jehova Witness a few years before she passed away. At her funeral is the first real contact I had with them. Their support and kindness to my husband's mother and aunts was a pleasant surprise. They seemed to really care. But then the service began... And the man who did the service started going on and on about how Nanny's body would rot away in the coffin and worms would eat away at her body but we must not worry because in the end they (the Jehova Witnesses) would all be reunited in the end and have new bodies. The last thing any of the family wanted to hear about at that time was how Nanny was going to be eaten away by worms. None of the family was given the chance to speak and talk about the good memories we have of Nanny. I'm still polite when they come to my door and politely turn them away, but I can't get that worm thing out of my mind. Dianne

slinky_jo	14 May 2002
I'm quite speechless, really! I hear so many horror stories about these churches, it's hard to believe that they actually exist in this day and age - it's meant to be the Age of Aquarius, where people are beyond all this stuff!!! Hmmmmmm - Jema, I think you are really brave for leaving the church on your own accord, as are all you other folks out there. You've realised you have your own brain, and you are exclusively responsible for youself/soul/etc. YAY! I went to a Presbyterian church for a few years as a teenager, because I felt lost, couldn't speak to my mother about my problems, etc. I thought that the church would offer some kind of nurturing, but it didn't (I won't go into it). I had a best friend who was a member of the Closed Bretheren church. We had known each other from Kindergarten (pre-school). But when we reached high school, she was told by her family that this friendship was unnacceptable. I lost contact after she left school at 15. I recently caught up with her - i found her on a school reunion board on the internet, of all places! So know we are slowly getting to know each other again after ten years. She left the church three years ago, looks and feels wonderful, but still can't understand that her family have moved away and won't contact her. All her childhood belongings are lost - in fact, she says that she never really has a childhood. I feel sorry for her, but I'm glad that we are still friends and that i'm hear for her - a shoulder to cry on, a person to laugh with, and a friday night drink now and then! I really admire people who leave their family church, even though it means that they may lose contact with, and love of, their families. My heart goes out to you. Blessed be. XXX

Kiama	15 May 2002
I have a question: You said they don't celebrate Xmas, cuz its a Pagan holiday... Why don't they celebrate it on the original Christian date, January the 6th? Kiama

funkpuss	15 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by jema i do think it is important to distinguish between what a few rotten eggs in a religion do and what the religion stands for. the witnesses stand for a lot of really weird things - but they do not stand for stealing or begging for money. i merely wanted to point out a few things that are specific about this religion. i am afraid gay-bashing is something that is only too common in lots and lots of religions. it is really a tradgedy and one of the reasons i had to leave the witnesses since i too have many gay friends. Jema, In my case it wasn't just a few bad eggs as I have taken time out with the JW and other religions to try to understand who they work. I was brought up as Church of England / Penticostol and I hated it as I was not what I wanted and had very bad experiences and OH the double standards was just a joke. I hated going to church and when I got to the age of 13 I stopped and said I will never go to a church again!! But when I was 17 I found a well know spritualist place in London and started going there, but I didn't got to the church until I was 20 years old. It felt right for me at the time and if people asked what religion I was I would just say that I'm a Spiritualist. But after a while of going to different church's etc. I found out it was the same old thing. So I don' have a religon at all. I just think positive (well try to) But what I really don't like is when someone takes it on themselves to be a guru! It's like some competitor or we don't like you but I will just pretend. ( I know you can get that anywhere, even in this forum, but I must say this is the best place so far) I which some people would just grow up!! It's not a gang!! Funky

Musicman	15 May 2002
I was reading the thread about the JW and especially the remark made by Slinky_Jo about being abandoned by your family for your beliefs, well I have not spoken to my family for over 4 years now, due to the fact that at the time I would not stay in a disastrous marriage as my family said that it would bring shame to the family if they had a divorced person. Not only that I don't belive in their hypocritical religion of Catholisim, I went out and did eveything I always wanted to do - gettattoos, follow my dreams, live life and live from my true inner being. That to my my family is not accepted. They think the devil has got me, I am a bad person because of my tattoos, I'm a loser cause I have no money (they offered me an inheritance if I did what they said, I told them to shove their inheritance up their asses and that money will never buy me from anybody! My mother has told people I am a horrible person because i have brought shame to the family and because i was disobedient. other words, I if my mother siad jump, I jumped, if my mother said marry this girl, I marry her, well I didn't and I never will ever do what anybody or my family says. I only do what I believe to be true from my heart and my integrity. Do I love my family, of course. Do I want things to be different, of course, but will it ever happen, of not! My door is always open to my family but they will never change, actaully as the years drag on, the harder it gets. If the day did come i would welcome my family back, but only if they can finally accept me for who i am. ME! Thanks for listening to me..

Kiama	15 May 2002
MusicMan: Your story just makes me wanna grab you and hug yu and squeeze you! I now realise how lucky I was to have my family accept me, even through the religous differences... I don't really understand what leads parents to disown their own children just cuz they don't agree with what they do in life... My best friend had a Catholic Grandmother, who I spent alot of ime with, and she is the loveliest Grandmother I have ever met! Her eldest son was also Cath. as was the family he later had... Even though the son later divorced that wife. I suppose, in the end, its not the religion that makes these things happen, but how people apply that religion. My best friend's Grndmoher ddn't disown her son because of it, so it must just be application... Kiama

Wishcrafter	15 May 2002
Yes,I too agree with most of the things said, here but I am very bitter towards jehovah witness'.My closest sister was converted to their religion, and it drove a wedge between us that has never been completely resolved. We were even living in an apartment together and because I was a christian, she would hardly speak to me,for months we went on like this,where I felt like some foul thing not even to be aknowledged, my dear dear sister,I can't believe she treated me this way for the sake of some religion.She converted to another religion now that is also very oppresive.I miss my sister so much, she will never know, I treat her kindly but I don't even feel a bond anymore.Just putting in my two sense. They still come to my door, and I am civil because I feel sorry for them.

jema	15 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama I have a question: You said they don't celebrate Xmas, cuz its a Pagan holiday... Why don't they celebrate it on the original Christian date, January the 6th? Kiama hi, the real date of jesus birth is not known to us. the only birthday celebration mentioned in the bible is where Herodes have salome dance for him and as a reward she wants the head of John the Baptist. so it is a bad bad thing. birthdays are just not celebrated at all, and not even jesus birthday even if they were to know the date. they only celebrate their easter - that is their holy communion with the wine and bread cause that is the only holiday the bible tells them to celebrate. anyway, that is how they reason. jema

DeLani	15 May 2002
I'm also a former JW (hubby is too), so my mom, and all my inlaws, are also former JW's. It did drive a wedge in my family, but not in my in-law's. When my Nana (grandmother) died 2 years ago, my mom & I gave our own "eulogy" to her, even though her JW friends were mortified...(women aren't supposed to address the congregation, and I read from not the Bible, but Kahlil Gibran's "The Prophet"). True, it is strange in a lot of ways, but isn't nearly as oppressive as a lot of other monotheistic religions. They don't make their women wear veils, or forbid birth control, or any of that. In fact, they are pacifists (my grandpa-in-law went to jail for refusing to fight in WWII). I left when I was 12, realizing it was sexist - something I couldn't abide by. Not much later, I found the Spiral Dance by Starhawk and decided I was a Witch! at the lucky age of 13, no less. I just love how the religious right (which really doesn't include JW's, since they don't vote) likes to claim they're all for "family values," when dogmatic religions like that are the #1 reason for families breaking up. Thanks for letting me rant, DeLani

jema	16 May 2002
hi delani and everyone else! thanks for sharing:-) i wish i had the time to answer all posts on this thread but i am afraid i just can't do that. but i want to say thanks for taking time to read and also thanks for the respect show on this forum. it seems like many of us have had some pretty bad experiences of the jehova's witnesses. i just hope when we look back that we will also have learnt something. for me it was that i am so much stronger then i think. that i am capable of keeping my distance to them and be happy and live without a lot of fear.

Logiatrix	16 May 2002
when i was in grade school, a little girl, robin, who was jehovah's witness, and my best friend. she was the ring-leader of our little group of oddball fifth-graders, which also included tracy, a jewish girl, shari, a hindu girl, hannah, a mormon girl, and when we were in a more benevolent collective mood, we befriended a muslim boy, tareq. we were all the ones sent to the hallway during "class prayers" every monday morning, and left in the classroom during the christmas pageant in the auditorium. robin never let anyone get away with teasing me about my "pajamas" or other customs (i was raised buddhist). the only kids who did the teasing, ironically, were the so-called christian kids who went to the big curch next to the school and usually starred in the christmas pageant! we all protected each other in our little group. when tracy was told that her ancestors "killed jesus", i beat up the perpetrator. when i found out that robin didn't get christmas presents because of her religion, we all snuck her "secret" presents. when tareq was teased because of his accent, tracy beat up the perpetrator. it was a jehovah's witness (and a jew, and a muslim, and a mormon, and a hindu...) who taught me acceptance.

Diana	17 May 2002
metaz: Certain stories make the tears flow from my eyes. As some people here may know, I grew up in a country where intolerance was the law of the land, and flags were flown in celebration of injustice and hatred, and one could be thrown in jail for attempting to love one's neighbours. So when I hear how about such love and tolerance from little children, my heart just overflows with emotion. Thank you so much for sharing that.

jade	17 May 2002
taz, that is sooo beautiful :) (although it sounds like the beginning of joke......hee hee) love and light, jade

Kaz	17 May 2002
diana, i see you live in suisse now, where did you grow up? kaz

sugar4paws	19 May 2002
Slinky-jo, your letter made feel like adding my voice to this discussion. What you said was right-on and I especially liked the quote. I read a biography of Einstein many years ago and he is one of my heros. He and I shared something in common. H e was and I am a member of The American Humanist Assn. Humanism is not a religion but it is a beautiful philosophy. Humanists do not believe in anything supernatural including a personal deity that intervenes in human affairs. I grew up being forced to attend a little country Methodist church. When I hit eighteen and went away to college I never from that day entered a church again except to see some friends married. When I was in the fouth grade (in those days this was a requirement) my friend was told it was her turn to stand up and lead the Pledge of Alligiance. Her family were very devout JW. JW do not say the Pledge or honor the flag because they consider it worshipping an idol. My friend begged and was crying because if she did this and her parents found out she would get a beating. Finally she stood there and mumbled while she continued to cry. I felt angry at the teacher who made here do this and even more angry that her parents would put so much responsibility on a young child. That Christmas she sneeked a little silk scarf to me for a gift. Religion is the biggest money-maker in the world. Think about the words of Lennon's song Imagine. How many will contiue to destroy each other in the name of some religion? As far as I'm concerned there is nothing in common between religion and spirituality. For me using the tarot to access my unconcious is part of my personal spiritual journey. For me the spiritual journey is a private affair. Boy, give me a chance to talk about religion and I just go on and on, don't I. Respect to you all, sugar4paws

Diana	20 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kaz diana, i see you live in suisse now, where did you grow up? kaz Apartheid South Africa. (I say this with a shudder.)

Kaz	20 May 2002
hmm, yes, i see what you mean.......... kaz

AutumnMoonfire	21 May 2002
Most of my association with JW the only problems I have had have been awkward social situations. But then I won't let them, Mormons, 7th day Adventists or door to door sales people into my home. What I have never understood was the night I worked halloween with a 7th Day Adventist and a JW. We were working in a group home for the mentally handicapped. the philosophy of management was that we should fit into the neighborhood. We had candy but not only would these two not answer the door, they wouldn't let me do it either(one was a boss type). I can deal with them not answering the door but why should they have cared if I did? Why did they not understand that this was important to the overall goal of fitting into the community? Like I said. awkward social situations...

Malachite	22 May 2002
'Taz....That SOOO rocks!....its great! well done!...btw, do you still know any of them? Sugar: (not a personal rant, btw...) I think that blaming religion for hatred is an overstatement...its people's misuse of it that causes problems. I don't always like other people's beliefs, but I only dislike them when they try to force them upon me...I, and everyone I know, tolerate beliefs, whether we share them or not... You cannot hold religion responsible for the crimes perpetrated in its name any more than you can blame money itself for poverty, or the concept of government for war...

floracove	22 May 2002
I have an aunt that is JW, but I would not base anything on her, because she is an extermely strange woman at heart, basically a backbiter and major trouble making gossip. The JW that have come to my door have been nice enough, basically after they begin talking and then pause, I start talking and just blow them away with what I know and believe and they leave shortly, they have never been inside my home, I am a private person and if I do not know you or have not invited you over, you do not come into my home, (Military upbringing I guess) And the Mormans teach that the 144,000 are not individuals, but rather 144,000 different GROUPS of people. Lead by Priesthood holders, and if I understand it, there is more than one level of Heaven and those also have their own groups there in the different levels... Which makes more sense to me, why would we be created by powers higher than we, that love us unconditionally, just to be tossed away? And they do teach that we have MOTHER'S in Heaven, but that there is nothing about her in the Bible, because Heavenly Father knew that his name would be taken in vain, and loved our Mother's, and did not want for their names to be taken in vain also... (my 2cents)

catlin	23 May 2002
Last year, shortly before Xmas, I was waiting for my tram to come when a strange lady wished me a "Good evening" and started one of this casual small-talk you have at bus stops, in trains, etc. After 2 small talk sentences she asked me if I beliefe in God. I told her that I do not believe in God as Christians perceive him as I am a Wicca, a witch. The smile left her face. She wanted to know what a witch does and if I am happy with that. After I had told her that I am very happy to be a "witch", she bid me a nice evening and left.

purplelady	23 May 2002
You make me laugh catlin! thanks! ;) .

The Jehova's Witnesses thread was originally posted on 14 May 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.