Predestiny

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 10 Jun 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kismet	10 Jun 2002
Many people believe in predestiny. I am wrestling with many questions on this and other issues currently. I do not believe in predestiny per say but in free will. As some of you having read my posts are aware, my boyfriend recently commited suicide. Was this free will or predestiny? I believe free will because I don't believe it is our choice to make when our creator is done with us, in one way I do believe in predestiny and in that I believe we all have purpose for being here and I find it hard to believe our creator intends for any of us to take our own life. Any thoughts?

Houklani	10 Jun 2002
I believe in predestiny, but in a looser form than what you described, Kismet. I think that the Creator has one general plan for us all, and that is to reach perfection. First, perfection of oneself, then family, nation, and finally the world. However, I also think that there is a more distinct plan for each of us, and we have the choice to follow that plan or not. To me, predestination is something that takes a long time. Be it through reincarnation or working as a spirit through living people on earth, eventually we must fufill our mission. Smiles, Houklani

Faerie Lin	10 Jun 2002
I also believe in a looser predestiny and also a freewill (to make our lives a little more "flowing"). But I believe that suicide brings up another turn in the road on this subject. Suicide caused by mental illness and depression isn't one's fault. Depression and mental illness is a serious thing, and the mind is a very mysterious thing. A soul cannot be held accountable for their actions when their mind is sick like that. But suicide caused by one's cowardness and such is punished, ex: The Enron scandle here in the US, one of the executives shot himself in his car because of what all was being uncovered. Lin

Jenny-Li	10 Jun 2002
I've had this discussion a lot of times before, and it IS a tricky one! 'Cuz it's not ALL free will, and it's not ALL predestination, in my opinion. I can't believe that there is one predetermined destiny that is unaffected by any of my actions, but at the same time there is, and always will be, an element in our life that is beyond control. So, I guess my point of view would go something along the line of this: destiny may be as a theme that will appear in our life, one way of another, this is also our life path or life lesson if you will, this is what we have to deal with in this lifetime. HOW we do so, deal with it I mean, is up to ourselves and our free will. So far the theory holds, but in practicality I still don't think it's that easy. Often our visions are clouded, limited and distsorted, which makes it harder for us to really see the best way of action. On top of that, society and culture is often based on values that focuses on things other than the spiritual process, and on success and surface and appearance... So we're usually "supposed" to do or focus on something quite other than our spiritual growth and development, even though the other is what would make us feel good about ourselves and actually get us to move forward. With society saying one thing and our soul saying another and no clear vision of what is "right", using one's free will isn't an easy thing. In the end we're free to do what we want to, but only in the limited world we "can see" and relate too. The vision, what we can see about the world, sets a frame within which we live. Don't know if this makes any sense, I look forward to reading what the rest of you think! Light and love, Jenny

Jenny-Li	10 Jun 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Faerie Lin /.../ Suicide caused by mental illness and depression isn't one's fault. Depression and mental illness is a serious thing, and the mind is a very mysterious thing. A soul cannot be held accountable for their actions when their mind is sick like that. But suicide caused by one's cowardness and such is punished, ex: The Enron scandle here in the US, one of the executives shot himself in his car because of what all was being uncovered. Lin I didn't make this point very clear in my post, because I wasn't sure how to do it, but this was what I would have wanted to say! The only thing I'm not sure I agree on, is the difference in that "cowardly suicides" are punished, while the ones caused by depression and illness are not. Personally I don't believe in punishment at all, it's all about what we need to learn in order to reach our "spiritual height", enlightenment or whatever we call it. I think the Enron-guy will not be punished, but he will be presented with an option to "get it right next time". If he chooses to take this option, that is. But that is my opinion, or belief rather. I'm glad you said what I couldn't express in my post! Jenny

Ravenswing	10 Jun 2002
as i see it predestiny the matrix of ALL possible actions. free will is the path you travel through the matrix LVX steve

catlin	10 Jun 2002
I think both take place in our life. Maybe the general outline of your life is already given but there is still your free will to use at the turning points in your life. Suicide isn't a thing which happens from one moment to the next. There is usually a long way to get there, several actions/incidents which cause a person to feel trapped, trapped in the sense of a "no-way-out-situation" which is stronger than your survival instinct. Normally ppl cling to the life so I think there is much more behind to cause a person to commit suicide or to run on the street firing a gun in a crowd of ppl.

MeeWah	10 Jun 2002
Kismet: Predestiny may be thought of as the plan or purpose for the particular lifetime, but free will still over-rides any such plan. Therefore, whilst Creator/God/dess would *not* "advocate" suicide, free will moreorless guarantees one's "right" to do as one will. I do not believe there is a punishment per se for any actions that are destructive, but the soul will have the opportunities to learn from & to address such a matter.

Bings	10 Jun 2002
This is interesting to me because it goes along with a book I was just given to read. The Lightworker's Way by Dr. Doreen Virtue. The book says that certain people came to this earth with a certain plan. A set purpuse. Even a mission. Predestiny. IMHO... Free will enables us to, as early as birth, forget about this plan. Choose a different course for our lives. Suicide is a choice a person makes. I don't think any of us are predestined to commit suicide. But sometimes free will takes us so far away from our predestiny that we can't find our way back to it. Dianne

Liliana	10 Jun 2002
I believe free will, because i believe we have a planning session with one of Gods representatives before each birth (yes reincarnation too) So i guess its slightly predestiny,but predestiny we choose with God lol

Jenny-Li	10 Jun 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Liliana /.../ i believe we have a planning session with one of Gods representatives before each birth Gosh, that sure gives me a very imaginative association...! Great metaphor! Jenny :)

Liliana	10 Jun 2002
Well i was trying to use something that was not religious specifici was thinking angels or saints but thats too Christian hehe :THP

Faerie Lin	10 Jun 2002
The punishment ways of cowardly suicide brings up my belief on where you go after you die. I didn't know if I should get into all that or not, cause I think it would take so long and be so hard to explain. But I guess I can try... I have posted about some of my beliefs before and I always hold back on somethings 'cause of how long it would really take to explain things. Anyways, suicide like that, the cowardly way, I believe they go through the left door where they wait to be reborn again where they don't have any say on where and who they will be. Kinda like really jumping in an unknown life. That to me is some serious punishment. But the burning in hell type stuff I don't believe in. Lin

Rain	14 Jun 2002
I am sorry about your boyfriend. I beleive in free will and predestiny. But I beleive that Prividence helps us choose our free will so it will lead to our destiny. After we die, and before we reincarnate, we choose the paths of our next life, in confluence with what we have done in a previouse life. For instance, a pregnant woman has an abortion, next lifetime, she will be unable to have children. It is evident that we have free will to choose the paths we take in life. Our death is planned out before we reincarnate, but the mode of death is only destined under extreme circumstances. Like suicide, I don't beleive that was your boyfriend's destiny, but I do beleive it was his time to go. If he hadn't commited suicied, he might have died in a car accident. What I'm saying is, Life is what you make it, to a certain extent. If it is not meant for a person to be poor, Providence will turn everything around so that that person is wealthy, unless poverty is a trial that person has to undergo due to a certain choice he/she may have made in a previous existance. I hope this has helped you in some way. My heart goes out to you and your friend's family, and you will be in my prayers Blessings Rain

lunalafey	14 Jun 2002
My mom was the one that told me about predestined life, yet she shakes her head at astrology and wonders why I study the "nonsense". Astrology is a great area to dive into when it comes to free will and destiny. I like what steveposz said, "as i see it predestiny the matrix of ALL possible actions. free will is the path you travel through the matrix" and jenny-li"it IS a tricky one! 'Cuz it's not ALL free will, and it's not ALL predestination" We all have the ultimate life set before us, there will be people and situations that we will encounter along the way, regardless, linked to past lives and karma. What we do right or wrong in our lives(all of them)determines what we will be rewarded with or have to endure.(or not) In the case of suicide, be that free will, but the situation that lead up to it, destiny(a karmic lesson) such as the Enron thing that was mentioned. The guy was faced with a decision do good or do bad(destiny), he went with the bad(free will)then the uncovering(destiny) again, faced with a decision(destiny) face it; or turn yellow...he went yellow(freewill)and seemed to fail in the lesson, guess he's gonna go back and do it again.

jade	14 Jun 2002
i had a boyfriend that committed suicide while i was dating him. i feel greatly for your pain. :( i believe that there are things that we plan (or hope) to complete or fullfill during our life, but i believe that we can always throw the plan out the window and just use freewill if we choose. the more connected and spiritually enlightened we become the more we get to know and accept our plan and then in turn, fullfill it. :D but, just because that's what i believe, it doesn't make it right, it only makes it right for me. love and light, jade :D

amyel	15 Jun 2002
Quote: Originally posted by catlin I think both take place in our life. Maybe the general outline of your life is already given but there is still your free will to use at the turning points in your life. I agree with Catlin on this one. Predestiny...well, I think of it more along the lines of we have a path in life we are guided towards. We are provided many, many forks on this path, some we take and some we don't take. Each will lead us to a different lesson in life we need to learn - our "predestiny". But the fork we choose is our free-will. Anyway, that's just my 2cents....

floracove	16 Jun 2002
Hmmmm.... I could fill a page or two with what I think. But I guess I was a skinny, ugly, rich person in my last life. I've heard that we chose everything before we come here... Our parents, our gifts, our shortcomings, our tests and trials, and our blessings... I do believe in predestination, I saw my children in dreams before they were born. And I believe in Free Will...

The Predestiny thread was originally posted on 10 Jun 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.