Difficulties with Visualization

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Jul 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

bellesmybaby	13 Jul 2002
I have noticed that every spiritual path that I have taken an interest in ( magick, chakra work, yoga, meditation, out of body, kundalini, pathworking on the tree of life, reiki, etc) requires good visualization skills. I don't know if I am expecting too much or have the wrong idea about how it's supposed to be. I feel like a freak, sometimes! I have talked to other people. Some say when they close their eyes, they see just as if their eyes are open and a few like me who see darkness. I wish I knew how to turn the light on. This problem has stopped me dead in my tracks when endeavoring to do any of the things listed above, which I do find very important and would like to do them! I know something is going on in my minds eye somewhere because I dream vividly when I can recall dreams, I recognize friends and family everytime I see them, if I didn't have some ability with this I think I would forget what things and people look like, dont ya think? I know exactly which spot under the couch to place my hand to find my shoe that I left there last week. When I attempt visualization, for me, it's like seeing in the dark, or what I am trying to see is veiled under a dark veil, I know it's there because it's my mind and I put it there, I just cant clearly see it. Do some of you Reiki people think that an attunement would turn on a light for me? Do I just need to change my perception and definition of what visualisation actually is? Maybe it's not like watching TV for anybody else either. HELP!!!!!!!!!!! I really would like to follow through with some of my interests but this problem stops me everytime! Any advice and tips would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Dee

purplelady	13 Jul 2002
Just off the top of my head here: Why don't you try visualizing an actual light at first. Take the ceiling light, or lamp, or maybe a candle. Whatever you actually can physically look at in your house or apartment. Look at the lamp while it is Off , then Look at it when it is on. Look at it really good for at least 5 minutes, maybe 10 (don't stare at the light part until you're seeing spots though!) Then close your eyes and practice "seeing" this lamp, candle , or whatever. Then take some other simple item you can actually see and have with you. Perhaps a simple photograph of a person, some kind of a fairly simple picture. Anything you can stare at for awhile. Then close your eyes and SEE it there. If you draw, or paint, or create anything, perhaps when you close your eyes you can imagine whatever it is you are trying to visualize in that medium (see it being sculpted, painted, or whatever. Perhaps you can always start your visualizations by "visualizing the same lamp or light " or whenever you feel blocked , visualize the lamp or light first. RELAX! Just trust and believe that you will visualize, and don't worry whether you visualize the same or as well as anyone else. As long as it Works for you it probubly doesn't matter how it really "looks".

purplelady	13 Jul 2002
Another thought: perhaps you are unsure WHAT it is actually supposed to look like. (What does reiki look like? What does meditation look like? What does kundalini look like?) And you are waiting for a t.v. screen to just appear and show it to you?(in your mind's eye) Maybe you need to first decide what you are looking for, or what it is supposed to look like. Then find a picture, item , or even create it? For the longest time, I believed I just couldn't meditate. Mainly because I felt I had no luck "emptying my mind" and "seeing nothing". Because everything I read and was told about meditating told me to do those things. But, I believe I can meditate fine now! I just use different methods that work for me. It's possible also that your methods may be different. Maybe you just aren't a visual person? Maybe you work better with sound? After all, I CAN imagine myself doing yoga, for instance, without any real physical visualization. Using other methods, like concentrating on my breathing, or even using sound...........

purplelady	13 Jul 2002
Also, I am a little uncertain whether you are being passive, or assertive with your approach. Are you waiting for the visualization to show up? Kind-of like scrying? Are you trying to visualize a blank screen and waiting for something to show up there?(And nothing does) Or are you consciously creating your vision? That is drawing, creating, putting it there all on your own and then "seeing" it. It's This approach that I would call visualization.

zorya	13 Jul 2002
when you dream, and visualize in your dream, it is like you have gone to the place in your dream. some kinds of visualization work like this. instead of expecting to see pictures on a screen, imagine yourself going elsewhere. like a daydream. if i told you to imagine a tropical paradise, i'd bet you could "go there", and tell me what it looks like. i'm guessing that you also want to experience visions that you don't plan out, that come to you. you can practice with lead-ins. like going through a dark tunnel, you get to the end, the opening and....... for the visions that just come to you. this is REALLY hard to explain, but what the heck, lol. you have to be at a place of quietude and awareness, you have to stop thinking yet become hyper aware at the same time. it's kind of like being in a space of non judgement. everything that is just is, don't try to analyze it or think about it. so that when the visions (or words, sounds etc.) come, you'll recognize them.

bellesmybaby	14 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by purplelady Also, I am a little uncertain whether you are being passive, or assertive with your approach. Are you waiting for the visualization to show up? Kind-of like scrying? Are you trying to visualize a blank screen and waiting for something to show up there?(And nothing does) Or are you consciously creating your vision? That is drawing, creating, putting it there all on your own and then "seeing" it. It's This approach that I would call visualization. Thank you PurpleLady for all your responses! Thank you too Zorya! I have tried alot of things that you mentioned, I think that I have such a negative outlook about it that I go ahead and decide that I cant do it, and that probably has an effect too. I have tried being passive and non passive. Non passive for instance while attempting to do a lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram, where you have to draw electric blue pentagrams around you. I got the ritual from Donald Michael Craig's Modern Magick, and he is the only person so far that is really gracious in his teaching and really stresses that if you don't have the best visualization skills just know that it's there. I should just have a little more faith. I am passive with things like trying to meditate on a tarot card, I actually want to step into the card and interact with it like you say Zorya. I want it to be open ended and spontaneous. I guess it is like a daydream and I must just let myself go, relax and let my imagination run wild. Every once in awhile I do Doreen Virtue's Chakra Meditation tape. She walks you through each chakra and says for instance, " focus, now on your root chakra, you may see a red glowing ceiling fan, (something like that) you may see dark areas in your root chakra, blah blah blah," well I truly dont know what a chakra looks like and I'd like to see mine for what it is and not just a red ceiling fan that I try to create and put there. I know that there are dark areas and blockages in my chakras, but I only know this based on what I know particular chakras to stand for. Thanks again for all your help! Dee

tigerlily	14 Jul 2002
Ok, do this really quick, otherwise it won't work: Recall setting the table for breakfast this morning. Whatever you remembered, and however you remembered it, is how you, personally, visualize things. When you read a novel, how do scenes form before your inner eye? Do you see the hero, or do you hear the dialogue? There are various channels to receive information. You'll have to find out which one you already use. Before you set out to train your visualization skills, you should first have an idea how you do it instinctively, because it will be infinitely easier to start from there. Some people just "know" things, without any sensory input. Just like you "know" that you have blocked chakras. Others feel or hear better than see. How do you learn things? Do you have to repeat them aloud, so that you hear them? Then you're an auditory type and will probably more readily "hear" messages than "see" them. Next step: pay attention to the outer world. Really look at things, notice the various shades of color, the forms, the proportions. Start sketching - you'll be amazed how often you'll have to look at whatever you're sketching, because you forgot what it looked like. When you can sketch something without having to look at it, then you're pretty good at visualizing. Do this with your other senses, too. Listen to the birds and try to imitate their songs. The goal is not to be perfect, but to pay close attention. Lear about the trees and plants and animals that live in your neighbourhood, so that you won't see a green mass when you look out of the windows, but individual plants. In order to tell an oak from a poplar, you have to pay attention to detail again - the forms of the leaves, the structure of the bark, the form of the whole tree. Can you tell them apart in winter, too? Lastly, there's a good book by Ernest Wood, "Concentration"; he has some visualization exercises in the second half of the book.

purplelady	14 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by bellesmybaby Every once in awhile I do Doreen Virtue's Chakra Meditation tape. She walks you through each chakra and says for instance, " focus, now on your root chakra, you may see a red glowing ceiling fan, (something like that) you may see dark areas in your root chakra, blah blah blah," well I truly dont know what a chakra looks like and I'd like to see mine for what it is and not just a red ceiling fan that I try to create and put there. I know that there are dark areas and blockages in my chakras, but I only know this based on what I know particular chakras to stand for. Thanks again for all your help! Dee [/b] O.K. I think we're getting closer here to what I'm really trying to say. You DO need to create, yourself, what a chakra looks like! When I asked before what does meditation look like? What does yoga look like? I meant that as a way to get you to think what Does it look like? And also to say that it looks like what you think it looks like! As much as I "believe in chakras" ...................I don't believe there is any one set in stone way to view or see them. I definitely believe they exist BUT .................I hesitate to say chakras aren't physical, yet I don't know how else to say it. And chakras are Definitely of the auric , or etheral, or whatever body. They Connect to the physical but also connect to the bodies that aren't physical. THEREFORE chakras exist, for sure, in the non-physical and do non-physical things have a set-in -stone way that they look? If you Visualize your chakra as a red ceiling fan- or a rock, maybe a multi-color red vortex, perhaps a waterfall. I sincerly believe it doesn't matter so much WHAT you visualize it AS, as long as it works for you, and your chakra, and is something kind-of nice that is chakra-like! I've seen pictures and diagrams of chakras as precious gems. Does that mean that a chakra HAS to be seen as a precious gem? Or IS a precious gem? neither. BUT if you can visualize it , purposely create that visualization and then visualize the healing energy or whatever it is you are doing or trying to do. THAT is what it is about, Not what a chakra truly looks like. If I am wrong, then please correct me , if anyone out there knows what a chakra looks like and is sure it looks like a precious gem instead of a whirling vortex. Even Light is a particle AND a wave, it is both! Which one does it look like? A chakra is an energy area, at least in part non-physical. You work with the chakra and create what it looks like for you to greatly assist in your work with the chakra! That is WHY you are visualizing it- so you can better direct the energy. My answer to What a chakra REALLY looks like is whatever you choose to visualize it as.

fairyhedgehog	14 Jul 2002
Tigerlily, You've got some good suggestions there. I'd like to add some of them to my website when I update it (in a month or two) so may I do that, and if I do, how would you like me to credit you? Regards, FH

zorya	14 Jul 2002
dee, stop thinking!

HudsonGray	14 Jul 2002
I was real surprised when I found out that there are some people who DON'T see the 'mind movie' when they read a book! It's just words on a page & they don't make the connection to visual. My mom was like that. We all loved to read except for her & she finally explained to me that she never saw the pictures like we did. It just blew me away. I mean.....how can you NOT???

tigerlily	15 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by fairyhedgehog Tigerlily, You've got some good suggestions there. I'd like to add some of them to my website when I update it (in a month or two) so may I do that, and if I do, how would you like me to credit you? Regards, FH Of course you can post them - I'm flattered! I'll be famous :D Just use my screenname, Tigerlily.

joya250	15 Jul 2002
hey there. great topic! Dee -- I have the same "problem" as you! Both with the conjured type of visualization and the let-it-flow type, though I'm much "worse" at the let-if-flow type. (I'm using quotes for these words, cause already I trying to stop being self-defeating!) When I do chakra work, I just try to visual the colors that correspond to each chakra, which I can do... but... I always feel kinda like I'm cheating... cause I'm not really seeing them, I'm pretending to see them! frustrating.... but the most frustrating is when I'm in a guided group meditation... and everyone else goes on a "journey" and I'm just stuck in my own mind, trying to decided if I should actively be visualizing the meditation -- or if it should spontaneous happen. argh! So, thanks for bringing this up! And, Tigerlily, great suggestions! I'm taking my sketch pad out with me today. haha, though does it count if I am lacking "true-to-life" drawing skills???

tigerlily	15 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by joya250 And, Tigerlily, great suggestions! I'm taking my sketch pad out with me today. haha, though does it count if I am lacking "true-to-life" drawing skills??? absolutely! The goal is to really look at what you're drawing, to pay attention to detail. Sketching is just a way to slow down the process so that you realize how many details you're still missing even when you think you pay attention.

bellesmybaby	15 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by joya250 cause I'm not really seeing them, I'm pretending to see them! frustrating.... but the most frustrating is when I'm in a guided group meditation... and everyone else goes on a "journey" and I'm just stuck in my own mind, trying to decided if I should actively be visualizing the meditation -- or if it should spontaneous happen. argh It's good to know that I am not alone but sad too!!! I sure do know how you feel. It brings up all kind of envy and feelings of not fitting in especially group situations. Hudson Gray, I actually like to read. The mind movie I get is like turning the brightness/darkness option on your TV set just about as dark as it can go and watching like that. You're still kinda getting the movie just not vividly. LOLOLOL I have to laugh to keep from crying! When reading a book I do imagine certain movie stars that I would pick if the book would ever become a movie, I just don't see it like I do with my physical eyes and boy do I want to!

Diana	15 Jul 2002
HudsonGray: I never ever see a mind-movie when I read. I have been an avid reader from a very early age, and I just drink in the words. The words are really like a draft of heady wine. They are more like music than pictures. A "good book", I mean, what one would call literature, is like a symphony to me. There are only a few authors, one being Oscar Wilde, who have actually painted a picture in front of my eyes. The others provide me with something different. And it is wonderful. Also, I think that when I do visualisations, they are not necessarily representations of things. They stay very much in the realm of thought and sounds and emotions. Like I do not necessarily visualise my Chakras as a wheel, or whatever. They just "are". I think that people should not get frustrated when they cannot do visualisations like the book says they should do it, or like other people do it. I can quite imagine that some people would visualise by using senses other than "sight". Sound, smell, touch. And feelings.

fairyhedgehog	15 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by tigerlily Of course you can post them - I'm flattered! I'll be famous :D Just use my screenname, Tigerlily. Thanks, Tigerlily. I'll copy them for now, but it will be a while before I get time to update :) Love and light, FH

bellesmybaby	15 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana and I just drink in the words. The words are really like a draft of heady wine. They are more like music than pictures. A "good book", I mean, what one would call literature, is like a symphony to me. Also, I think that when I do visualisations, they are not necessarily representations of things. They stay very much in the realm of thought and sounds and emotions. Like I do not necessarily visualise my Chakras as a wheel, or whatever. They just "are". I think that people should not get frustrated when they cannot do visualisations like the book says they should do it, or like other people do it. I can quite imagine that some people would visualise by using senses other than "sight". Sound, smell, touch. And feelings. You said it perfectly! I loooooooooove words, sentence structures and metaphors. I am a person of very few words so I am very drawn to them. Most of my favorite movies for instance are ones that are narrated. I can watch Shawshank Redemption once a week, and sometimes I actually do! and it is because of the narration. Your words about visualization are very encouraging and resound with what tigerlily said. I guess it just depends on what sensory type you are that dictates what and how you are effectively creating in your mind. Thanks Dee

Lightlike	16 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana I never ever see a mind-movie when I read. I have been an avid reader from a very early age, and I just drink in the words. The words are really like a draft of heady wine. They are more like music than pictures. A "good book", I mean, what one would call literature, is like a symphony to me. There are only a few authors, one being Oscar Wilde, who have actually painted a picture in front of my eyes. The others provide me with something different. And it is wonderful. .... I think that people should not get frustrated when they cannot do visualisations like the book says they should do it, or like other people do it. I can quite imagine that some people would visualise by using senses other than "sight". Sound, smell, touch. And feelings. I just realized that the past few days when trying to relax/meditate I've been hearing things--sentences and the like that aren't mine. Darnit I wish I had written them down, one was fairly clear and mentioned a name, Richard. I thought I was dreaming but reading what you just mentioned made sense because I'm not a visual person, I'm a writer--I think in words...even when I used to imagine stories/play pretend as a kid I thought in words rather than pictures.

tigerlily	16 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by bellesmybaby ... I sure do know how you feel. It brings up all kind of envy and feelings of not fitting in especially group situations. ... I have to laugh to keep from crying! And with all those feelings knitted up inside you, you're effectively blocking yourself. I know that it's difficult, but it's no use to compare yourself with others. We are all different, and therefore our visualizations are different, too. Visualization skills can be trained, but as I said earlier, you gotta start with what you have instead of wishing for what you don't have. A lot of visualization is recalling things you experienced with your senses before. That's why I suggested that you first find out which of your senses you use the most. You say that you don't "see" the scenes when you read a book; do you "hear" the dialogues? Do you "feel" the temperature or the tablecloth, "smell" the coffee, "taste" the crispy chicken that's described in the scene? If your impressions are all dim and fuzzy, you have to train your attention (the old Zen thing... mindfulness) and your memory first. Babysteps - before you "make up" things in the inner world, you have to have an idea how they look and feel like in the outer world. We have a body for a reason. Quote: I never see things like with my physical eyes when I do visualizations, only when I do astral travel; the two are definitely not the same thing.

The Difficulties with Visualization thread was originally posted on 13 Jul 2002 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.